Rangers Banter Archive November 10 2012

 

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10 Nov 2012 22:16:53
I thought that we wer debt free so how do we still owe hearts money!?? {The Ed039's Note - We do not have any overdue money to Hearts, they are still owed money from Wallace transfer, payments have to be overdue for it to be in debt)

Believable8 Unbelievable7

11 Nov 2012 01:25:09
Wait a minute ed. I have a loan and a mortgage. None of my payments are overdue but they are classed as debt. If you owe money for buying something then it's debt {Ed001's Note - ridiculous comparison and just shows how little understanding there is of debts. You borrowed money in the form of a loan and a mortgage, that is a debt. Rangers agreed a payment schedule for buying a product, as long as they keep to theaagreed schedule, they are not in debt.}

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Re the ed reply re rangers only in debt as money overdue what rubbish debt is something you owe as in debit look up thesaurus {Ed001's Note - and they don't owe it until the due date. It is not difficult.}

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Debts are debts whether they are overdue or not, lol.
If you had an overdraft with the bank for £5000 but the payment for it that month wasn't due for a week, does that mean you don't have any debt?

Get a grip. {Ed001's Note - you do realise that an overdraft is a loan from the bank don't you? This is nothing like the same. How is it no one can understand the difference when it is so simple? Instead we have idiotic comparisons of overdrafts and mortgages! It is embarrassing how many people shout their mouths off when they don't have a clue.}

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Ed was it not part of the terms to let Rangers back in that they had to pay oldco debts to clubs. {Ed001's Note - this is not a debt.}

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Its money owed ed is that not a debt. {Ed001's Note - it is not owed until the due date. So no, it does not become a debt, except in an accountant's spreadsheet, until then. Just like you are not in debt to a catalogue company until you miss a payment. The only reason it is included for an accountant, is to make it easier to plan future spending and liabilities, it is planning ahead. It is not legally a debt until the payment is missed.}

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10 Nov 2012 15:15:15
Haw Ed, how come the RST launched their initiative with pomp and ceremony regarding fans pay the RST for buying rangers shares to get somebody on the board and Ibrox response was Jardine giving Celtic a back handed compliment and Ally sympathising with Hearts, zero comment from Green or Chairman Murray.
I thought all 4 of these guys were about the fans 4 days later and not a squeak from any of them on the RST initiative.

Believable8 Unbelievable0

Why would green want some fans to pay just £125 to get a share, when he wants £500 per share...

this undermines his value proposition...... and could easily laed to less money for the share float......

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1) the shares do not reduce from £500 to £125, all you are doing if go with scheme is that you are buying a quarter of a share. If the shares are £500 and they raise £1000 that buys them two shares

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The RST are giving fans that cannot afford
the £500 min investment a chance to still
own some shares and have there say in
club matters,their is no actual share price
as yet.
AJM

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Im dumbfounded how rangers fans cant see they are not buying shares in their club,what does it take to get through that blue haze.YOU ARE BUYING SHARES IN A HOLDING COMPANY OF A HOLDING COMPANY THAT OWNS RANGERS.and when hes got your money the holding company goes bust and hey presto your shares are gone.CG has a history of this and you can check that out for your selves.nearly every share holder at the moment is somehow linked with zeus capital or some other company that green and ahmed are connected to.BE WARNED ..YOU WILL LOSE YOUR MONEY...and possibly your club,your mad if you trust green or anything he says hes playing yous for mugs.....gary

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2) is correct 3) is partially correct.
The shares are £1 each but you have to buy a minimum of 500 to make the transaction worthwhile.
RST is saying give them £125 for guys who don't have £500 and they will club it together to buy a big block of shares and get a guy on the board.
However, I thought months ago Green agreed to have one guy from each of the Rangers supporters groups on the board. That got both groups behind him. But another failed promise. At least with Green u get a share certificate with RST they get the share certificates.

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Ok gary. Can you tell me where I should be investing my money. I made a great profit on RKH couple of years ago when they went up 900%, still got money to invest. You sound like a shrewd financial whizzkid, any help gratefully received.

ps,

Anyone buying football shares is never going to make money, would think everyone would realise that.

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@6 i made a nice wee earner on RKH as well, now i am waiting on CHAR striking it off namibia, although i will buy shares in rangers i know i wont make money from them but I am also waiting on the response you asked for from the financial wizard above

JG

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@6 you said it yourself m8 you dont make money investing in football,,but you definately will lose money buying shares in a holding company of a holding company that owns a club this is how they get away with it,two holding companies and the one you buy the shares in is second one so that when that company goes the shares are gone but the first holding company still owns the club and the shares are not their resposibility.its just a way to fleece the loyal fans..you dont see any financial mobs jumping to buy the shares do you,only people connected to green and zeus..the big boys would,nt touch it with a barge pole.so maybe you should invest in some big chinese company because sooner rather than later china is going to be a world super power...gary

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10 Nov 2012 18:36:44
Love seeing all the posts from celtic fans saying "concentrate on your own team" ie regarding Barca game.

Posting this while on a Rangers forum and not even realising the sheer stupidity of it cheers me up no end.

Believable22 Unbelievable16

Why shouldn't they? - it's not a forum solely for Rangers fans. You do realise this?

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It doesn't cheer you up at all. There is now an obsession with the obsession, its bordering on ridiculous.

I wonder if the Barca game was mentioned today at Ibrox ?

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Obviously some people think this site should be just for Rangers fans.

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A rangers banter site without any opposition fans input would be a bit dull just keep it as banter though take care and hail hail

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@3

We would be happy if it was 51% gers fans on here, however the obsession means probably 60 to 70 % are of other persuasion.

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@5: oh dear, the old obsession chestnut. Going by your logic, that must mean Rangers fans on other sites (Celtic and Hearts, to name but two) must be obsessed with those clubs? Or doesn't it work that way?

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10 Nov 2012 18:01:03
Rumour has it, I nearly shat my pants when that gun went off at ibrox. Cool banners in each stand and class half time

Believable16 Unbelievable17

Rumour has it I pished my pants laughing at this.....lol..made me smile.

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10 Nov 2012 17:24:11
another below par performance,should have been 2 down early doors,woeful 1st half,better 2nd half,still expecting more than these displays..

Believable18 Unbelievable10

Take the 3 points and look on the bright side of life mr Meldrew!!

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It was pretty poor stuff again though. Very one paced and lacklustre. Have to say that Greek guy is shocking

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Thought he was better today. showed a bit of forward momentum and was always looking for the ball. Bare in mind it was a new back 4 today and we managed a clean sheet.

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10 Nov 2012 17:22:36
Nice to see your both teams to score bet won again tim? Oh wait it never, thank god I never listened to you, how many in a row has it lost now?

Believable8 Unbelievable5

10 Nov 2012 16:04:45
Ed, is there a problem with the Celtic Rumours site? I have tried several times to log on and cant get through {Ed001's Note - not that I am aware of, are you still having difficulties?}

Believable2 Unbelievable1

Yes a serious one its about CELTIC.... only been on once EVER to see if Gers fans as insecure as timmy... happily not the case... for all the compliments for Celtic euro win let them not forget that even with 4 titles guaranteed as no competition ... history WILL show we are still well ahead and as cycles of success go we will remain ahead forever... thats why they go on and on about the history thing and strip titles nonsense .... trfc forever george

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Post 1.) Thank you for your assistance your advice made all the difference, you must be a computer wizard.

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@1 George are you hellbent on sounding like Geo the Ger. Your a new team mate.The famous Glasgow Rangers are going into liquidation, as you have put TRFC beside your name you obviously know old Rangers are defunct.As i said to you in another post stop giving ammunition
Tam

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Dear Mr Bam, I am merely looking at all the other clubs that have sadly went into admin and come back as newcos. THEY ALL STILL HAVE THEIR HISTORIES INTACT BAR A FEW THROUGHOUT WORLD FOOTBALL, BASEBALL and ICE HCKEY. Tell me Bamster why will Rangers be any different? Ok for the next few years we have to accept the sevco/no history wind ups .... BUT SERIOUSLY in 20 or 30 years when it is either Gers or Celtic at top and old firm as usual winning most or all the domestic honours do you think anyone will notice the * beside Rangers FC Stats to 2011 and the stats from 2012 as (the) Rangers FC.. do you honestly believe that? if you do you are a fool. So enjoy the 4/5 year unopposed titles and be honest you are looking forward to resumption of normal service with as my previous posts hope less bigotry and more 'banter' at the games I wish you luck on your euro campaign... george

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..Tam you are talking turkish...we are the same club..we play in the same colours and in the same stadium and are followed by the same fans...the company Rangers 2012 are about to go into liquidation...we have changed our name slightly to differentiate us from the old company...kind of like your own club who as i remember have been called 3 or 4 different names in your history....get over it mate..we are Rangers and we are still here..

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Can someone please tell me WTF the replies have to do with my original question which was about an internet link problem? What is wrong with some of you guys? Thank God there are editors on these sites or it would just be a rambling mess. {Ed001's Note - now you see why we do have editors.}

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@4 Well porgie seeing that you are now reverting to name calling,we will see what happen's after the dual contract's investigation wether you will play in the same strip's etc, as for 20/30 year's from now, think you should be worried if your NEW team will make it till the end of the season,remember your post old bean, BAR A FEW, you may well be one of those few.Who will look the fool then.Pressure's is obviously getting to you,your beginning to sound like the other Geo.
Tam

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@6 Your right mate but Porgie threw the dummy out the pram,had to take him to task
Tam

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10 Nov 2012 16:13:26
Hearts and Dunfermline were in dire straights financially before Rangers went out the game so all this karma nonsense should be knocked in the head and you should realise their predicament has nothing to do with the death of your club.

Briggs

Believable25 Unbelievable6

You are right about the karma. However, financial experts- not your average timothy- say otherwise regarding the removal of Rangers from the spl. Not saying it is only reason. The money going into sponsorship has already dwindled. Look how hard they tried, had to get sfl3 games as part of the deal. Do you really believe Rangers are not important to them, if so why all the coverage of our games. Think about it!!!!1

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@1: how can the fact Rangers weren't voted into the SPL (not removal) have an effect on Dunfermline?

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@1 hearts are allegedly £20m+ in debt and have been for a while so not even Barcelona in the spl would help them out that hole! I haven't heard of any sponsors pull out because rangers are not in the spl so I don't know where you pulled that one from. The problem with having one man own the club is that when debt is unmanageable then he walks as no one else will come in and take it on as rangers found out. Hearts will go down the same route as rangers as regards liquidation and finally the death of their club.

Briggs

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Simple question---- Did the removal of Rangers from the spl reduce the income for Scottish football? Simple answer---- Yes. Hearts, Dunfermline and others were on the edge of a precipice, so it does not take much to topple over the edge. [even with all the cost cutting being done]. No rights or wrongs, just simple arithmetic, and if one of the above go under then Scottish football will struggle to continue unless radical changes are made.

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@4: but Dunfermline aren't in the SPL!

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@4 not yet it hasn't. Hearts won the Scottish cup & had Liverpool in the Europa league. Celtic haven't been to Tynecastle yet !

Why should rangers of been allowed to stay, no other team would have..including Celtic?

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Mr Briggs see I can answer you firstly our club called Rangers have never died as you and your like would wish sure the company which ran us Whytes Mob yes give you that one are about to be put into liquidation.We are still here and as a friend of a good many Hearts supporters I hope they get through this sad times in their history.So away and gloat on your own wee self righteous pages as you sir are one sad little man. People's livelyhoods are at risk here and you come on hear trying to score points sado.

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From 4.] re response from 5.] All I asked was ' if Scottish football [not spl] lost income. e.g. tv money etc. re response from 6.] You confirm what I'm saying. Yes a visit from Celtic will be a boost but not enough to plug the gap.
Certain teams will be o.k., e.g. Celtic [with Euro income.] Div.3 clubs because of Rangers presence. Also, teams who visit Ibrox in Cup-ties will get a boost, but overall Scottish football will suffer.

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@7 So why are you now THE RANGERS ?
Tam

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@7 So no one's livelyhood's were put at risk when Mr Green led Rangers into liquidation ?,and then had the audacity to say you's were debt free,pot, kettle, regarding scoring point's don't you think
Tam {The Ed039's Note - Tam, Mr Green didnt lead Rangers into liquidation, Craig Whyte did and SDM before that. Mr Green picked up the scraps is all)

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10 Nov 2012 15:45:32
Hearts reject Rangers' Lee Wallace payment offer
10 November 12 14:55 GMT

By Chick Young
BBC Scotland

Hearts have rejected an offer from Rangers to renegotiate the terms of payment for defender Lee Wallace.
The left-back moved to Ibrox in a £1.5m deal in July 2011, with £800,000 still owed to the Tynecastle club.
With Hearts under the threat of a winding-up order over a tax bill of almost £450,000, Rangers said they would hand over £500,000 now.
But Rangers wanted to close the deal with that gesture and Hearts owner Vladimir Romanov has dismissed it.
Agreeing to pay football debts was part of the agreement that allowed the Charles Green-led consortium to acquire Scottish Football Association membership when they relaunched Rangers over the summer.
Rangers had said they would pay Hearts £300,000 in January and settle the bill in July with a final payment of £500,000.
Hearts director Sergejus Fedotovas has revealed the club face a £2m shortfall this season and is appealing for fans to take up a share offer.
The Edinburgh club have less than a week to raise money to pay the tax bill to stave off a winding-up order from Her Majesty's Revenue and Customs.
Hearts also face a separate £1.75m tax bill but are disputing the demand - which centres on loan deals for Kaunas players - in a tribunal.

So £800k to Rapid Vienna, £800k to Hearts, the Dundee Utd money, owe Celtic £60k, etc etc,....Green told investors debt free! He said season Ticket money untouched, he said it was his consortium but he's an employee.

Believable18 Unbelievable8

So Greens club gained Scottish football association membership for the first time.
Never previously in SPL or Europe.
Trying to do the dirty on hearts in their desperate hour and rob £300k from them.

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Rangers havent paid a penny to rapid vienna. Every rangers fan knew the wallace fee was still outstanding as per the original agreement! Just celtic fans clutching at straws again

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I would hope Rangers meant £500k now to help and BALANCE at a later date... media been wrong in 90% of s***e about us the last 18 months.... if not then this is another PR mess.... george

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Green stated on camera s few times Rangers were debt free. Then the club website stated externally debt free. So I guess hearts, rapid etc... Are all in the club lol. Lies from Green pure utter unashamed lies. But what is significant is the internal debt to ahmeds consortium. What Ally has with 5% of Rangers is 5% of the debt to Ahmed!!

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Rangers were doing Hearts a good turn by offering £500,000 now. The monies owed to Hearts for the remainder of Wallace transfer isn't due until next year.This refusal throws doubts on Romanov if he really cares about the future of Hearts, because his statement only gave the club a week or so to survive. Geo the Ger {The Ed039's Note - It was something that would have meant business sense for both clubs, although I think Hearts situation is more grave than is being let on, I know they are saying it is bad, but I think any cash coming into Hearts will just be swallowed by the black hole of debt)

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@5. We could do them a better turn by clearing the outstanding debt to them in full. It would help them, then we can truly say we did Hearts a good turn. Would be a good start for us to repair our image that SDM and Whyte tarnished. bigbaz

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@5 Doing Hearts a good turn,typical of you to talk crap,Rangers are trying to steal money from Hearts. Oldco/Newco still the same garbage.
Tam

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@6 At last a bear with a bit of honour. Well said bigbaz, if there were more bear's like you maybe the rest of Scottish football would applaud your team instead of laughing at you.Geo the Ger you notice i wrote laughing at you and not hating you.
Tam

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So if celtic had the opportunity to take advantage and get a reduced deal they would say no? I think not

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@9. It's not about taking advantage, it's about restoring a bit of dignity to our club, preventing our detractors gaining any more ammunition to have a pop at us with. Surely it's worth the remaining transfer fee just for that.

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@9. Its not about what other teams would or would not do, it's about us doing the right thing. I know some fellow bears want revenge for what has happened to our club, but it does not help, only creates more nastiness on all sides. We should be all camped outside David Murray's house demanding an apology from him, after all he started this debacle. Once were finished there, then Craig Whyte is next. bigbaz

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10 Nov 2012 14:30:08
With the scottish goverment willing to help hearts they can say cheerio to independance its obvious they dont like the rangers

Believable11 Unbelievable15

The government always get involved when a company with large employee numbers

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OP. That's absolute nonsense. Salmond spoke to HMRC on Ranger's behalf whilst we were still in administration. #1 is right - they get involved if their are a lot of employees' livelihoods at stake.

Brian

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Wrong only david cameron spoke up for rangers

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They were never getting independence anyway, why do you think he is allowing 16/17 yr olds to vote.................more easily influenced. He even hinted if he does not win, he will leave politics............no brainer, vote no.

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The SNP are like the SFA and the SPL, not to be trusted. {The Ed039's Note - Not a politics page guys, any conspiricies on government can be directed to the conspiracy page, any moans can be directed to the menopausal mens page)

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Good reply Ed. Keep politics where it belongs

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10 Nov 2012 14:07:26
What a mess Scottish football is in, Rangers woes, Hearts, Dumfermline, rumours of Motherwell, Kilmarnock in trouble, in fact the Express claims six SPL clubs in "relegation zone financial position".

The only "good news" is Celtic's performance in CL. I was astonished at their result in midweek and indeed in
Barcelona. I don't want to take anything away from
those achievements, because they have done what no other club has done in three years, they beat them in a CL qualifying round.

But let's try and take the blue or green specs off. I understand Barcelona had 86% of possession, had five times the efforts on goal than Celtic. I am told it is a record in CL for a team to win with so little of the ball.

This is being considered as the best result in their history, and it may be one of the best result, but this is hiding the truth. They could play Barca a hundred times and with possession of 86% they would lose 99 of the hundred.
I am fifty years old, I have seen Glasgow hold the semi final of European Cup and Cup Winners Cup on the same night. I was in Barcelona in 72 as a kid, my father was at two other European finals. It was common place in sixties and measly seventies for the two Glasgow clubs to be real players in Europe.

How can we go from that position forty years ago to be the backwater that we now are?

There needs to be a complete re-think from top to bottom. My son plays under 13's, at a decent level. The coaching has not changed since I played as a kid. The biggest kids play, the ones that can kick it higher play, the wee kids that can dribble and run at people, well thay are on the sidelines. Things haven't changed. My son recently played against the best team at their age group in west of Scotland and they did not have one guy under six foot, and their coach told me that if Messi was Scottish he would struggle to get a game, his words, not mine. This is the land that produced tanner ball players, the likes of Jimmy Johnstone, willie Henderson and they learnt to play by playing on the streets. You cant do that now due to numbers of cars on the road. Look at Argentina and Brazil, where the players play on the streets.

This is the national game, and it is time that money was spent in indoor facilities, not at £50 an hour, somewhere the local kids can turn up and play. I have a friend in Sweden who tells me in every area of every town and cities where there are indoor facilities. Incidentally one man for introducing this to Sweden was Tom Craig the ex Rangers physio who helped set these up in the seventies. These are community run places and one club in Gothenburg has nearly fifty teams of all ages, including over forties etc.

Lets sit down once and for all, have one body running the game. Let's have football people running this body. No more high paid jobs worths. Let's insist the government spends Money on facilities, now is the perfect time to do that. Let's not fill kids teams with giants, lets not coach it out of our kids, let them play in a free manner. Maybe in twenty years we won't be ranked number seventy in the world.

Let's get our senior football back on a good footing, let's get two leagues of twenty with the biggest teams in the top league. That allows the Rangers and Celtics to blood youngsters in league games. Let's have a rule where two or three foreigners in a team. Let's keep what little money there is, in this country. Let's not line the pockets of clubs abroad or agents. Let's reduce prices, let kids in free. This is our national game, now is the time for drastic measures. Let's not be talking about in another twenty years, let's get it done.

Believable12 Unbelievable11

It's funny how you want these rules since your club is in trouble.

Agree6 Disagree11

1) op here , honestly this narrow minded attitude that you are your likes spout out. This has got nothing to with our troubles. Open your eyes, can you not see Scottish football is dying on its feet.

It's the likes of you that stop things improving, all is ok as long as your team is ok.

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OP - Milngavie Training Park (CAN WE PLEASE STOP CALLING IT MURRAY PARK).. is providing nearly a team of players to take us up through at least 3rd and half a season 2nd div, we provided 7 current players in EPL and Nationwide in the last 10 years... ajax academy was set up in the CRUFF era (70s) it takes years to filter through the change in mindset to modern passing game...Hibs, Dundee Utd and M'Well all bringing great young players through and our 'friends' in the east have produced similar numbers to us even though their training facility years behind Mingavie Centre...i agree SCOTTISH schools training is PATHETIC saw my son 8 years ago go through same S***E you describe in both STATE AND PRIVATE schools in Aberdeen, Glasgow and lastly Edinburgh... the TEAMS training centres is the future like Ajax and Dortmund.... george

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3) I know we have a few decent youngsters that may take us up the divisions, but we would nt have seen them in a normal season. But remember that Rangers and Celtic with no foreigners at all. We are so far behind it is unreal. I am good pals with DJ he played in a cup final, scoring the winning goal at sixteen, my cousin is married to Billy MacKay who made his debut against Bayern at sixteen. Now they call a twenty one year old as a youngster. This may in time be the start of young Scottish players being given a chance, and agree there are decent players coming through elsewhere and with current financial position this may give them a chance. But I remember talking about Ajax twenty years ago, what really has changed, I think we are in a worse position than ever before.
My son is coming up fourteen and has never seen his country qualify for any finals. Sorry to say he may never see us in a finals. Changed days indeed.

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You'll find the name is Murray park

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Op agree with most of what you say but one of the answer's is in your post. It's the people that run these boy's clubs that have a lot to answer for,they think they are Sir Alex or Arsene and run these boy's club's in a regimented manner. You mention the person that run's your boy's team, for him to come away with that statement as far as i am concerned is ridiculous and he should not be near a boy's team, all kid's should be encouraged and not left to the whim of someone who think's he is managing a senior team.
Tam

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Sadly we went from a well thought out post to having a pop at the post to worrying about the name of a training ground. FFS - The man (regardless of his loyalties) amde a legitimate point - Scottish football is in a mess and it will take some ground breaking decisions to save it. (Ground sharing, including the green and blue, green and reds, restructuring to ensure the big teams compete against each other, limitation within EU rules regarding foreign players, one controlling body etc.) Wake up, see and smell the flowers..they are not green and blue or red they are turning black with decay. We can bitch about EBT's tainted titles all we want but if we do not act soon then there will be nothing left.

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10 Nov 2012 12:14:41
Here is a suggestion to both gain some positive P.R and reduce the business's financial liabilities.

I am guessing we still owe Hearts around £800K for the balance of Wallace and Templeton transfers. I am sure Hearts CEO will have contacted Charlie asking him if h could pay next instalments on both transfers now than whenever next year. Charlie could rightly tell Hearts where to go given they voted against us staying in the SPL (although I believe that was under duress from Petrie and Co)

So if I was Charlie I would offer Hearts something between £200K and £400K as full and final payment for BOTH players....call it quits....Hearts get enough cash to stave off HMRC....we get two players for considerably less money and remove the liability from the balance sheet....and spin a good P.R. story how we took the higher ground and helped save Hearts in their hour of need....

Makes sense all round to me....

SPM

Believable7 Unbelievable19

UNBELIEVABLE your old defunct team steal from hard working people, you now want your new team to steal money from Hearts and you have the audacity to state and i quote "a good pr story how you TOOK the high ground and saved Hearts in their hour of need". No what would be a good story is if you paid the Jambo's all money owed NOW.
Tam {Ed001's Note - it is standard business practice to negotiate a lower payment in a situation where the company owed money needs it in advance of schedule. Not sure how it would be good PR though.}

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Or it can be viewed as taking advantage of a club facing oblivion, just to avoid paying full amounts just like oldco used to?

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Am not convinced Romanov does anything under duress

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No, no, no!

It's not a good deal for us all, it's not a good idea for Hearts. Why should they take less than owed. I am a Rangers fan and you are deluded if you think this is good PR. we would be seen as trying to take advantage of Hearts situation and save money we owe.

Pay what you owe, simple as that. This is the reason why we are where we are. What would be good PR would be to offer payment early. Should we do that, no.

If you make an agreement to pay on a due date, pay on that date. I would remind fans of the ridiculous statement by Mad Vlad where he accused us and Murdoch of being involved in corruption. Kettle, pot and black spring to mind, how he can accuse anyone of corruption is beyond belief.

Give Hearts the same help they gave us, bugger all, but pay them what we are due and at the agreed time, but certainly do not offer early settlement for a discount.

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An even better PR idea would be to offer what we owe rather than taking advantage of hearts demise, isnt that the craig S***E and Murray way of thinking that gets us hated by nearly all scotland.... we have pulled together with season ticket sales and put a right few quid Charlie Gs way PLUS the rangers fighting fund i have heard mentioned.... surely as a gesture of apology to scottish football and to show we are not the old rangers 'NO ONE LIKES US WE DONT CARE'... we are still THE RANGERS but maybe we should be thinking 'THE SFL LIKED US AND WE DO CARE.... even for SPL HEARTS' ... it wouldn't do us any harm especially if there is ANY chance of a reconstruction... we have to think of the big picture ..... trfc forever george

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Is hearts problem not down to bringing in loan players from kanus telling SPL they were paying a fee for them when it seems they weren't? and that's what hmrc are chasing them for. If this is true then isn't that cheating, financial doping if you like and will there be calls for them to be stripped of their cup wins?

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While Ed is right that it is indeed common practise, OP don't dare try and pass it off as a good PR story.

From a certain date in May 2008 your club has been in a PR freefall and this self-serving effort won't fool anyone. You really are a unique bunch.

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Green did the dirty deed trying to take advantage of Hearts' misery. He offered £500k and it was knocked back. So there we have it.

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To some of the posters responding to my original post, principals sometimes need to be set aside when one is in a desperate position.

The PR angle is simply by Greeing to give Hearts money now - in their hour of need a it demonstrates we are not being vindictive against what happned last season when the majority of our fellow SPL member clubs voted against us staying in the SPL.

It really is quite simple...and common business practice in these situations

SPM

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But SPM after recent events I think everyone in Scottish football, including Vlad by the refusal someone else posted, might well be thinking do Rangers ever pay full whack for anything? Now there would be a gesture, give Hearts ALL the cash NOW. Even I would applaud that and I'm poster 7) who was hardly flattering earlier.

In the interests of fellow club camarederie and an improved PR image should Rangers give Hearts all the cash early?

Agree for yes, disagree for no.

Surprise me bears. I'll be amazed if the disagrees aren't winners by 3 to 1.

Agree10 Disagree7

So what you're saying is rangers should have got top doller for all players that went for nothing?

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Wasn't the Rangers Fans Fighting Fund (RFFF) created to pay off creditor debts? That's what I was told it was for then it bought Imran Ahmed a pitch for his business.

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@1 ED I know it's standaed business preactice but for this person to say it's good pr, and claim you's took the higher ground is completly laughable.
Tam

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10 Nov 2012 10:41:17
Rangers will return stronger and better than ever, be prepared for domination from the blue side , WATP.

Believable13 Unbelievable29

Explains why the 140 year celebration is against....


stirling albion, thats one for the record books.....

:(

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Traditionally Scottish football goes in cycles but the gulf in revenue between the two clubs right now is frightening and with at least two more years of it and Celtic's improved co-efficient and ability to make huge sums on sales of players it will only get bigger in the shorter term. Sure you may be right but not this side of 2020 I feel.

Gaz

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Let's just get out of the 3rd division and climbing up the leagues before we even think about dominating anyone

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Looks like we have 3 years to prepare, I'm sure we will be ready haha

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With all the money celtic are forecast to make we should really be thinking of using their scouting as a model...I couldnt give a S**T if it us copying them it is clearly working for them and logic dictates that we both have massive supports and we should barring disaster be in SPL in 3 years tops ... ok timmy have a head start but so did we when we were spending money we didnt have but o'neill still won a good few titles against our top team with all the dutch players and barry etc... the future is good scouting and being a selling club to the big teams... george

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Tony watt was released after 1week trial at rangers,then went too airdrie,it shows the scouting policy is rank rotten,letting potential star talent like him go to celtic for 50grand!an overhaul is needed asap

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Rangers scout was bomber brown ffs.

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To be fair to Bomber didn't he scout him and bring him to Ibrox for a trial in the first place?

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10 Nov 2012 10:31:52
Looks like Dunfermilne could be next. I always said that we should do our time working through the divisions. Unfortunatley by the time we get there the game might be gone.An emergancy meeting should be called now for restructering. All this individualism is beyond a joke. We need to work together for the good of the game.

Believable9 Unbelievable14

Who caused dunfermline to loose out on spl..... gers!

who said karma....

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Translated as "we want out the 3 division"

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If rangers are not back in the spl in 18 months the spl will be gone

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10 Nov 2012 09:24:35
its amazing how one result has turned all the thinking around how fickle the fans are all on here calling for super allys head last wek and now hes great again. i for one think ally should take his millions say sayanara to durrant and lap dog and go back to tv. he could get some regain and some just for men and get a good nutrisionist and exersize plan and he would be away.

Believable7 Unbelievable5

Ally will never willing leave the club, he will have to be forced out, He's a bluenose through and through. Fans are always happy when you're winning (ie. Alloa), and the manager can do no wrong. Lose a couple of games and they are demonised. NL was getting grief after the Killie game from some Celtic fans, now look at him, beating Barcelona has made him 'legend' status in their eyes. Judge our manager at the end of the season, that's when it matters. bigbaz

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10 Nov 2012 09:12:13
If we have as much money in the bank that CG is saying why don't we buy a some of hearts young players off of them.(u18) would help there cash flow problems and we might get a few good players out of it? They have a few players in the scotland u21 & u19 squads. I for one don't want a team like hearts just disappear Gazza72

Believable1 Unbelievable8

What's the point of Murray park if you can't bring your own u18s through

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Why would we want to help hearts didn't see them rushing to help us. Hearts are beyond saving this is sad but true

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Now dun be stupid and start believing CG on money.
Also MP ( no new name? Conned on that already only fools forget quickly) is not a youth academy and never was and isn't licensed as such.

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10 Nov 2012 08:44:52
Just wanted to wish all you ex bears
well on your HUGE game today against
mighty Peterhead. Do you think this
game will be covered globally as the
famous Glasgow Celtic game was on
Wednesday?
It was reported that 5,000 places on
Wednesday went to the huge press pack
corporate sponsors etc.. will these
5,000 be present at Ibrox today? lol
Timalloy (the intelligent one just ask George)

Believable12 Unbelievable12

It's a pity that someone like yourself feels the need to post on a Rangers site. You would think u would have better things to do with ur time rather than post cheap and unoriginal comments.

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Who cares how much press was at the piggery were rangers fans and unlike you lot not obsessed but cheers for telling us another fact we don't care about

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@1 At least he leave's his name, unlike yourself. BTW anyone can go onto any site they wish to,this site is not exclusive to The Rangers.
Tam

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10 Nov 2012 13:17:50
It's not a Rangers only site. Anyone can come on to have banter about Rangers. Got that?

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Anybody that knows anything about football will know that barca has been on the slide 10 men behind the ball and hope was lemmons instruction cant wait to see german teams against lemmons team

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Having a brain does not guarantee correct use of it, in this case pettiness when we are humble enough to praise your team, I am fed up with endless windups which dont even bother me anymore, more concerned with win div 3 despite ally and co then hope to god we improve eventually enough to see us top of div 2 until we are allowed to buy players again to get us back to SPL. So tim after the euro run ends and it will at soe point, u could finish bottom if you lose to benfica and last game a battle off with russians , mind you are self made favourites now, rangers blew the exact same position under walter when we looked certs to qualify,... personally i think lennon is savvy enough now and you will qualify for last 16 but as runners up meaning playing a barca level team again, the backs to the wall doesnt last forever as luck required (mssi hits bar and pedro hits post foster saves 5) it can change in an instant thats why all chams league finals 99% of time is top 2 teams in europe.... so WHEN you are out... how many press will be at your half empty stadium for a meaningless league win with no competition? how many will stay at ibrox to witness the rebirth of a new era? ... use your head tim it is clear as day.. your next 3 seasons all depend on euro run for interest and while i honestly think your squad WILL have anther good run they will also get knocked out early too even lisbon mon got knocked out first round in 1968 ... enjoy this while you can but mind we will be back and thats when your seasons will be great again old firm AND europe... brain yes tact no.. geoerge TRFC in SPL 2015

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Aye Barca who got to the semi-final of the CL last season, won it the year before and have had the best ever start to La Liga by any team are on the slide, very good.....

G93

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@6 George WE are humble enough should be some of us, which believe me is appreciated by this Celtic supporter, you talk about pettiness then you bring up 1968. As for back's to the wall it got you to a Europa cup final. Forster ( see the spelling lol) saves 5,ain't that what a goalie's supposed to do. Messi ( spelling ) hit the bar, if you look at it again you will see Forster made 6 save's.Pedro hit the bar, sorry was Alexis. Mind, you will be back, psychic are we. You usually write posts worth listening to this time think you let your heart rule your head mate.BTW good luck to you and your team for the future.
Tam

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There's no doubt about it Barcelona are a big draw no matter who they play. Great result by the way.

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The amount of people who don't leave a name are what is wasting this site. If you have something to say at least put a name to it so that we can direct responses to you. You are probably best ignoring all the no names, that's what I do, it's bloody ignorant.

Larky Bear

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Quite simple larky, said it so many times. We should have a log in system, this would automatically post our names with each comment. Not going to happen though, this site would never do that.....hint hint. {The Ed039's Note - I will mention it but I think it would be be a no-goer)

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@10 Correct Larky Bear
Tam

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10 Nov 2012 08:17:52
Quick question ed, out of all the players who left rangers for England in the summer apart from naismith is any of them getting a game? Has edu or ness even played for stoke? {Ed001's Note - Broadfoot did get a run for a bit, only to be at fault for 3 goals in 2 games and he got dropped. Edu did get one game, that's about it.}

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Aluko is doing well at hull, Davis starts most weeks for Southampton, Whittaker has been injured but I think when fit will play for Norwich. Gazza72 {Ed001's Note - I forgot about those 2 to be honest. You are right, Aluko is having an excellent season according to the Hull fans I have spoken to and Davis is a regular for the Saints.}

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Think Edu's only appearance was as a sub, Ness hasn't played in the EPL yet but that's not really surprising as he isn't ready for that. He may go on loan to a championship side. Davis plays regularly for Southampton, Aluko has been scoring goals for Hull and I am sure McCabe gets a regular game with Sheffield Wed

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10 Nov 2012 03:40:08
RFC share issue... jury still out on Green but I am sure if Hearts could get a Mr Leith to replace Romanov they would jump at the chance.... I will buy shares IF they show us, the fans, EVERY detail about ownership of Ibrox and Milngavie Training Complex plus AUDITED ACCURATE Accounts and put in writing how much of the share issue will remain in Rangers bank for development and how much will be DUE (rightly) to the investors that in reality saved my team and I hope will secure our future living within our means...OH and if they sack Ally.... joking.... trfc george

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@10 George they did not save your team,your team are about to be liquidated.In another post you said you are fed up with the wind up's,here's a wee tip, don't give them the ammunition.
Tam

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10 Nov 2012 00:05:25
Liquidation appears to have different consequences for every other apart from those down Ibrox way.

Portsmouth are about to join Rangers, Third Lanark, Gretna et al. They might be reformed as The Portsmouth but liquidation is fatal.

Portpin has suspended its bid to buy Portsmouth and has warned there is a "very real risk" of the League One club being liquidated unless there is a resolution soon.

The largest creditor in the Portsmouth Football Club (2010) administration have held discussions over a sale and purchase agreement with administrators PKF which it claims is "ready to complete within a matter of days".

Trevor Birch, of administrators PKF, withdrew preferred bidder status from Portpin three weeks ago and named the Portsmouth Supporters' Trust (PST) as the preferred bidders.

However, the PST has yet to finalise its business plan and bid documentation to be reviewed by the Football League, with Portpin subsequently feeling its attempts to pursue a bid are not now worthwhile.

Portpin chairman and Hong Kong-based businessman Balram Chainrai also feels the recent departure of manager Michael Appleton to Blackpool was down to the club's future still not being resolved.

He said in a statement: "I believe there is a very real risk Portsmouth Football Club will end up being liquidated despite our best efforts to proceed, which are being knocked back at every turn by PKF.

"Sadly we feel the administrators are deliberately driving events in this direction so until there is a clear resolution from the Football League regarding the PST bid, we have no option other than to suspend our offer.

"We are in a position to pay football creditors in full, provide the financial guarantees and a multi-million pound funding facility as required by the Football League through to June 2016, and could complete the purchase of the club in the next few days.

"But none of this can happen until there is a clear decision from the Football League on whether or not to approve the PST bid."

Administrators PKF declined to comment when contacted by Press Association Sport.

Believable6 Unbelievable2

Sorry mate way off tangent. I am blue thro and thro but why should we decide clubs like Brechins future they may be small in comparison to us but they have the right to belong did they owe millons in unpaid tax? We as a club/group of supporters need to be more humble in future and not always dictate to smaller clubs.
Sorry mate but thats how I feel to your post.

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09 Nov 2012 23:59:05
Wallace Mercer was way ahead of his time when he suggested amalgamating Hearts and Hibs. He was consequently driven out of town and carted himself off to France.

There are far too many clubs in Scotland, far too many non entities like Brechin, for example! What the feck do they bring to the game?

Ideally, we should go down to 30 teams, with 2 professional leagues - let's get amalgamating!

1. Motherwell, Accies and Airdrie.

2. Ross County, ICT and Aberdeen

3. Sevco, Thistle and Clyde.

4. St Mirren and Morton.

.....and so on!

Can this happen? God only knows, however something has to be done with these non-entities!

Miko x

Believable8 Unbelievable20

What if uefa said Glasgow could only have 1 team? Would you support a rangers/Celtic team? Morton and st mirren fans hate each other.

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I never thought I would ever say this but I am afraid I agree with you apart from your usual rubbish about Sevco. A pity the only good point you have ever made has to be ruined by your crass stupidity. I don't see Sevco in any league table.

We are a small country and have way too many teams. We need ten teams, I suggest Rangers, Celtic, Edinburgh, Dundee, Highlands, Ayrshire, Lanarkshire, Perthshire,
Fife,

The player squad could be picked from amalgamated teams, the rest sold. One ground should be chosen and should be extended to 20,000 seater. The other grounds should be sold and the money used to strengthen the teams.

Then we may have a competitive league. How can a country our size have forty teams. I know this will offend the Forfar, Brechins, Stirling teams but who cares. The 200 people that turn up can either support their new team or not who cares?

If we are going to re-structure lets be bold, let's get it right and eventually the people of Fife or Dundee etc would support their regional teams.

Imagine me agreeing with Miko, think I have had one too many, although its good to see you are still obsessed.

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How dare you call Brechin and the likes non entities. They will be just as important to their fans and COMMUNITIES than Celtic or rangers are. In some way small clubs are more important as they are the hubs of the community. Not every team want to chase fame and win the European cups at all costs - theirs more to football than money and fame. I think you will find these wee 'bring nothing to the game' clubs are the game , and most run on a shoestring for free! by people who love the game. No blazers. HH joe

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1) all the 2000 St.Mirrens fans and the 500 Morton fans? Who cares?

They are a waste of time, Morton was a tip the last time I was their when Andy Ritchie was playing, I can imagine what it must be like now with 20 years of no crowds.

Brechin, Montrose, Forfar, etc etc etc have never given anything to the game, they have no crowds, no ambition, just a waste of time and space

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Glasgow united out of Parkhead and Ibroke bulldozed...... Hmmmm
Actually why not EVERY Scottish team join the English leagues at the appropriate level? Celtic and rangers in EPL and hearts Hibs Motherwell Aberdeen Dundee Utd in div 1,2, etc...much more money for everyone.

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3) the heart of the community, please. Let's take Forfar for example. Population 108,000, average attendance 540. Hardly the hub of the community. The people of Forfar don't care about them why should anybody else.
Because somebody does something for no pay does not mean its a good thing.

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I would have no problems with ground sharing (not amalgamating two clubs). It works in a lot of countries around the world and makes good business sense. Hearts and Hibs / Celtic and Rangers sharing? It would give both clubs more finances available to challenge in Europe a bit more. Sadly our little country is so full of bigoted nasty little creatures who still think that things which occured hundreds of years ago are relative today and that these wars are still happening. (Both sides of these cities). That is why it will never happen as we keep feeding the same crap to our younger generation. (My work takes me halfway around the world in Singapore and I have watched Thais and Filipinos screaming at a tv football game about Fenian and Orange b*star*s. No idea what they are shouting about but it keeps the boyfriend happy!). This is what will always hold us back and why the EPL do not want Celtic or Rangers as members. They have enough trouble with hooligans without adding our neanderthals to the pot.

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@1 Morton and st mirren are 2 teams who are living with in their needs unlike us who cheated to win things, if you haven't been for 20 years how do you know they get 500 fans.

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Why are you all so childish. Miko deary me what drugs you been on the club with the highest attendances in Scotland and you suggest they need to amalgamate sorry but our stadium is already full however there are plenty of empty seats at breezeblocks towers every second week so maybe pacific shelf would benefit from a bit amalgamating. Honestly you so talk poor rubbish at times. I think it's time you put the bottle of glue down

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@6, there is no way on this earth Forfar has a population of 108000, try 11000, you obviously have never been there, who cares about average attendances, these small clubs are mostly well run like my home town team Brechin with no debt, alot of people that goes to these games are older people who maybe used to follow the old firm but go to watch their local team on a saturday just to watch a game rather than face a 200 mile round trip every other week, Scottish football is in a mess because of the teams at the top who have lived beyond their means for years, Rangers are the prime example of this and teams like Brechin and Forfar are not the cause of this, they live within in their means and pay their taxes, why should they disappear?

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10 Nov 2012 08:58:32
Try around 13,500 in Forfar. And yes, I'd happily see less teams in Scotland. Or use these smaller teams as feeder/U21 clubs.

Baz

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Surely there's a place for football teams in Scotland with only 200 supporters? That's called community grass roots level.
Forced amalgamation with their geographical nearest rivals, normally their biggest rivals, would be unnavceptable as much as forcing Celtic and rangers together.
It would also be illegal and unenforceable. Think up another one.
Playing within UK leagues is the future.

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While I agree in principle Miko I don't like the term non-entities, these clubs have earned their right to be there as much as anyone and given that Rangers got flak for trying to get 4 teams expelled in the 60's, an action Celtic railed against, your insult to Brechin and teams like them is all the more surprising.

When asked about Scottish Football compared to English around a year ago Stewart Regan said it stood up to comparison in attendance terms, ie the approximate 10/1 ratio. However none of our pathetic journalists had the savvy to ask a more pertinent follow-up question. "So which model is correct therefore. Should Scotland have 9.2 teams or England 420?"

We cant be 10/1 in population and 2.19/1 in teams, something isn't right there.

The clubs have to see this for themselves, not be railroaded into it and needless to say feelings will run high. Personally if no mergers emerge I would cut the leagues by one every time a club collapses, a logistical nightmare for Division 3 but 42 is too many. I would also introduce a play off to Division 3, the bottom club in that Division should not perenially be allowed to remain there.

Inverness Thistle and Caley merged and look where they ended up. Imagine a Fife merger, it would be a cracking team.

As for 1) what a stupid comment, UEFA wouldn't enforce it, it is a Scottish problem and even in Division 3 Rangers are probably going to have the second highest revenue in Scotland so why would it affect them?

The problem is small-rooted rivalries, I remember years ago watching a Morton v Celtic cup game in a pub. The winner was playing St Mirren in the fourth round. This St Mirren bam wanted Morton beat? I pointed out "Wont this make St Mirren's job all the harder in the next round?" His reply summed up the opposition this will face. "I don't care, I hate those wino ********." Celtic won v Morton and surprise, surprise won v St Mirren too but for bam boy the Buds got a round further than Morton. That is what it is up against.

Gaz

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@6. Joe makes a valid point, although there maybe only 540 who go to see forfar or any other of the smaller teams, but to those 540, that is THEIR team and just as important to them as Rangers or Celtic are to us (or any other fans team). I understand the comment about amalgamation, in theory it makes perfect sense, but in practice very difficult to achieve. bigbaz

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Football is a sport , remember that. A sport. To be enjoyed by all. It's not up to anyone to dictate who can or can't have a club.

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Miko. You are looking at this upside down in my opinion. We should be learning from these so called 'non-entity' teams, not discrediting them or shoehorning them into amalgamating with other clubs. They operate within their means financially; they don't pay wages or buy players they can't afford to; they have people who care passionately about their clubs at the helm, not hard nosed businessmen who think football can somehow turn a profit - it can't; they welcome opposing fans to their grounds and don't charge the earth so those less well off can still get to games if they wanted to also; they don't include income from cup runs etc within their yearly projections for running their clubs. Clubs such as Brechin etc are not the problem within our game. The problems are entirely at the top end and these clubs deserve to remain as stand alone entities in my opinion. They are not the ones that have done wrong.

No ambition? Ambition, admittedly poorly managed, ended up destroying the club I have loved since I was a young lad and it is about to do the same to Hearts. It is the SPL teams that are struggling to meet their bills through overextending themselves financially, not the teams in the lower divisions.

As I was discussing with G93 lower down the page we need a complete revamp of our entire game and he/she made perfectly sensible suggestions which wouldn't be difficult to implement: two 16 team leagues (I would add an extra 10 team league in there and retain all of our current clubs); an SPL2 (I would still rather have a single governing body though TBH) including play-offs; and Friday night football. These would be easy enough to get up and running quickly and would benefit the game in the long run. I would also add in a pyramid system to ensure the lowest division teams have something to play for each season. I would also introduce a German style system where there can be no foreign ownership; no one individual can have a majority stake in the clubs; income has to match expenditure; fans are actively sought to have a say/stake in their clubs, etc to ensure this mess doesn't happen again.

There are dark, dark days ahead but if we pull together and be sensible about it we can come out the other side. Unfortunately, whilst the top clubs only care about their own survival (can't really blame them for that but then the creation of the SPL afforded them too much say in the game in my honest opinion), nothing will change and more current SPL clubs will slowly go to the wall (not because Rangers aren't in the league - because they have unserviceable levels of debt in the current climate and have done for years going back to the formation of the SPL and the meeting of the entry criteria) until we only have solvent clubs left in the game. If it is the Morton's, Brechin's, etc mixing it with Celtic, Hibs and Aberdeen in that scenario so be it, they will deserve to be there as they have run their clubs properly.

See to be honest the only way to really get it back on an even keel and retain these top clubs is to temporarily offer them a form of amnesty whereby they can shed their debts through an administration process without facing footballing repercussions or penalties (too late for us obviously but imagine the uproar) and start afresh, therefore preserving the league, and then legislate appropriately and never allow ourselves to be faced with this scenario again. Harsh on the creditors etc but that would be the only way to retain a certain level of competition at the top end, but it will never happen as it is morally unpalatable to most people. As I said, dark, dark days lie ahead of us as a footballing nation, hopefully we come out better on the other side.

Brian

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7) excellent post!

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Brian agree with all you say,but you seem to forget Rangers ( the real Rangers LoL) were part of that SPL who were looking after themselve's. Rangers and Celtic together were as guilty of it if not more so.
Tam

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@14 Well said bigbaz, surely we should be looking to amalgamate the SFA,SPL,SFL.and not the club's who bring joy to their fan's.
Tam

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Tam. I actually said that exact thing about a year ago and got slaughtered. The personal greed of the 'Old Firm' collectively resulted in the SPL being formed as the SFL didn't pay us 'what we deserved', given we are the two biggest teams with the biggest supports in Scotland. Look how it has turned out. We bullied the others into accepting 20% of the income between them and kept 40% each for ourselves and competition ceased within the league as we disappeared into the distance given the gulf in finances (which always existed but not to the extent it is now). Since the inception of the SPL we have shared the title between us and no-one else has had a look in. That is an entirely unhealthy situation and we caused it together. We pushed for certain entry criteria (10,000 all-seater stadia, undersoil heating etc) and the other clubs plunged themselves into debt they couldn't afford to accommodate our wishes. The voting structure was weighted in our favour (11-1) and I could probably go on and on and on.

We really need to get back to basics before it is too late. One governing body, no entry criteria (if clubs don't meet the European guidelines the next club down that does takes their place), wage caps (in the sense of income matching expenditure) and all the other things mentioned above.

Celtic have managed their money far better than we have (that is clear for all to see) but we are both equally responsible for the failure of the SPL. Two teams sharing the title, national teams failing to qualify for a tournament since, our top SPL clubs laden with unnecessary debt and struggling badly, poor leadership and an individualism which would never have been allowed by the SFL. You know what they say about letting the lunatics run the asylum. Fun for a while but destined to end in disaster.

Brian

p.s. believe it or not I am quite a happy and optimistic person, lol, but I only see negatives when it comes to our game at the minute.

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Sometimes the truth is difficult to accept, but your spot on Brian. bigbaz

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@19. Agreed Tam, I like the system in England with promotion/demotion and play offs. Could we not bring in a similar system here, with maybe 3 leagues with a 3 or 4 team promotion/demotion and call it FLS1/2/3 (Football league of Scotland). Just a thought. bigbaz

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