Rangers Banter Archive July 11 2013

11 Jul 2013 20:31:26
I am the only person that thinks our scouting system needs revamped? However much we may dislike the Mhanky Mhob across the city, you have to congratulate them in their scouting! Picking up Wanyama 2 years ago for £900,000 and selling him on for £12.5 million :O something needs to be done ASAP so we can keep in contention once we are back in the top league where we belong

WATP

Obv a Celtic fan. I like him as a player but he's not worth that kind of money. We're talking about a guy that's played a season and a half of football at a good level. Everyone goes on about the barca games. Barca broke a world record for possession in that game it was 89% he could have only have had about 2 touches of the ball. I rate him as a good player but that's all. I give Celtic great credit for getting the money but its more to do with their PR machine than their scouts ability. Celtic have always got money for average players.

@1/What a load of rubbish. Why do you think the OP is a celtic fan? Did you say the same when Hutton went for £9m?

PR machine? Don't thinkso John Parks the best scout in the country end of! Forster, Hooper, Wanyama, (Izaguirre & Kayal before injury) all good buys on the cheap. Do I think Wanyama & Hooper are overrated yes very much so but all handy in SPL.

Larky Bear

@1. 89%? More fantasy eh? Wamyama 2 touches? Green with envy methinks. Best bit of business in the history of scottish football, but of course soton are mugs and just handed over 12.5m based on what celtic told them. If you base wealth on how much money you have in the bank, and most of us do, and not on being able to service massive debt (look what happened at ibrox) celtic may be the richest club in Europe. Forget the sugar daddies in england.
They will walk away and leave those clubs f***ed, for sure.

£12.5m is a huge amount of money.
32,000 season tickets at £240 is £7.6m.
Jabba said the IPO was £9m only, not £22m.
If it costs £2.4m a month to run the club that's £28.8m a year. It has to come from somewhere. I think player costs will have gone up slightly on these transfers.

I can not be leave that any rangers fan could say big Vic is not worth that money, remember that dodgy deal boumsong to Newcastle with dodgy souness and his non playing employment fling back that some how has been brushed under the carpet, every thing done by Celtic is for the benefit of Celtic not the individual try getting your club to do the same and your brand new club might have a chance of survival this time around

@4. You for real? Richest club in Europe? Heard it all now. Southampton are richer than Celtic. Debt free and enormous income guaranteed, not reliant on winning qualifiers to get the pot of gold. They are buying players for 12m not selling em. And that is one quick example. A clubs or companies value is not based on cash in reserve but assets too. Now where do we start with the next example.

@4 let's not get ahead of yourself Richest Club in Europe I disagree with the OP but come on that's fantasy LOL material 2 words Bayern Munich. Enough said!
If Celtic are so rich why not spend half of the Wanyama money & half of the CL money or even ST money & challenge for a European trophy? Where's the ambition from Celtic honestly? It's nice to be in the green zone but if use could afford to offer Wanyama & Hooper new deals and potentially knock back £18.5 million then surely use can afford to go spend £15 million on 2 or 3 Quality players get to the group stages & there paid for? Or Do Lawwell, Desmond & the board get a nice wee slice to take home?

Larky Bear

12 Jul 2013 10:21:18
actually the barca game was 89%, it was on the screen, and you were either at the game or just accusing someone else of lying because you didn't like the truth, even my mates who are genuine time and tell the truth know it was 89%, if your having trouble accepting that m8 ask someone who watched it on tv?
Tommyblue

12 Jul 2013 10:23:34
another thing @4, sugar dadies, what do you think supplies the xcash at parkhead? what exactly is dermot and his 2 pals if their different from the owners in England? you really need to get out more m8

12 Jul 2013 11:14:26
@6 you are a mixed up bitter little man aren't you, tell me
what does Boumsongs transfer have to do with wether Victor is worth 12 mil,?, do u not understand, even if boum was worth 2 quid it wouldn't make any difference to what folk think
Wanyamma worth, my m8 got a job on 38 grand a year, i'm better than him but I only earn 32?

#4. You made a few decent points joking about the guy who seems to think Celtic's PR fooled Southampton but come on, that final point, as a famous tennis player once said, 'You cannot be serious?'

Thanks for making me laugh though.

@7) Southampton nearly went bust 3 years ago mate. Sugar daddy saved them, that's a fact. So now they are in the Premiership they get massive amounts of money handed to them but its a double edged sword because you have to spend massive and pay massive wages to compete or even stay up. And if your talking about assets away from the pitch Celtic leave Southampton behind without a doubt. Do you understand the losses Southampton make if they went down next season. Crowds back from 30k a week to 17k anuall turnover down by at least half like every other club that's went back down from the Prem to the Championship.

Celtic have no debt. Its a rarity in European football so we are in a perfect financial position. CL football, Selling on our investments for massive profits and signing multi million pound medium term sponsorship deals.

Celtic aren't the richest club in Europe by a long way. They are however in the top 10 current best run clubs in Europe without a doubt. And with anuall turnover raising gradually every year that will do me.

And as if that wasn't enough of an achievement you have to take into consideration we play in Scottish football, one of the worst run, co-efficiently worst performing leagues in europe. And missing its only other big team. {Ed001's Note - Southampton were averaging over 20k while in the 3rd tier of English football, why would their attendances suddenly dip to below that while in the 2nd tier?}

@13, assets away from pitch? I live in Southampton mate and I can tell you sfc own large areas of farmland around the city have a large training complex which is being upgraded as we speak and plans to enlarge stadium to well over 40k in the pipeline. Very ambitious club. May not be glamorous but tell me this when they were last in. perm would you have imagined selling your best player to. little Southampton? Great ain't it? Just shows how far behind Scots teams inc Celtic are falling behind rest of Europe. Also ill bet sfc would win SPL and therefore get in ch league. Any arguments?

Ed

Southampton average attendance for seasons

2006 (23, 556)
2007 (23, 613)
2008 (18, 184)*
2009 (20, 108)
2010 (21, 226) After arrival of sugar daddy Nicola Cortese§ {Ed001's Note - sugar daddy Cortese? You haven't a clue! He is not the money behind Southampton at all. So clearly you are wasting everyone's time with your complete lack of any knowledge of the club you are trying to slag off! Southampton are a well run club, on a very solid footing, with one of the best academies in world football.}

@13. Yes soton went into admin 4 yrs ago. a wealthy swiss guy bought them thru pence in pound deal for approx 14 mill. Last year all debts owed to liebherr family were wiped clean. Debt free. Well run and with a youth set up which makes Celtics laughable so don't go there with that one. Ask Celtic owners where they'd rather play, epl or SPL with europe cash once every 5 Years? No contest. Yrs they could get relegated, but Celtic may not make ch league in another 5 years. Who knows. Honestly, one good ch league run and a tidy profit on your star man and suddenly the world has to sit up and take notice of the great almighty Celtic. Unbelievable.

Well said Ed I was bigging up Southampton the other day on the Celtic banter I mentioned lady owner & got Nicola Cortese is a man haha.

Larky Bear {Ed001's Note - he is not the owner either! He is, however, running the club fantastically well. They are a club on the up, with plans for stadium expansion/brand new larger stadium in the near future. It is little wonder Wanyama was impressed by them to be fair, even if the move may have had a lot to do with money, I am sure their future plans will have been the clincher in the deal.}

13 Jul 2013 08:22:08
ed
just to let dafty know, southampton also reared and produced alan shearer, gareth bale, and matt le tissier, hope he's reading this, tommyblue

I know he's not he's the Chairman I think I'm not going to act like I know a lot about them but There owned by the Daughter of there late owner whou bought them in admin are they not? I said she was doing a good job & some smart @rse said Nicolas a man lol.

Larky Bear {Ed001's Note - no, they major shareholders are the Liebherr Foundation, run by his daughter. She is not the owner though, she is only one part of the Foundation. It is quite complicated really.}

Sounds it Ed cheers for the info.

Larky Bear

11 Jul 2013 16:21:24
Dear Rangers Fans,

My Name Is Oramba Mor Gullible. I am a retired Nigerian General. I am wanting to invest many money into your splendid football club. But my preferred method, as I is such a good man is to give you all money to buy shares with. Please send me your bank account details and I will most honestly promise to deposit 10,000 pounds in each of your accounts so you can be buying the shares.
EMail me at GeneralOramaMorGullible@connedagain. com
Hurry get your money. Remember to send all account details for super quick transfer of funds.

The sad thing is Timmy in this beautiful warm weather you took time out Your day to think that up then post it & it's no even remotely funny I can laugh at our situation but that was just poor. Away & Greet at how much Bigger a Club Southampton is than you now.

Will £20,000 be enuf, I can put it into your mums bank account if there are any problems.
My email is lemming@overthecliff. com

LOL :) aye, very good
it is a banter page after all.

Cannae wait til we've got something to give back (unless you're a jambo OP?) Til then we'll just have to suck it up.

11 Jul 2013 18:42:59
OP why no name/tag? If I had thought up this wind up my name would be all over it. I bow to your comedy genius. Timalloy

Mr Lennon already has past on his details

12 Jul 2013 09:35:34
@1 I agree the op is a poor excuse for comedy. But not sure your retort about southampton works well either. It surely rebounds on us that we once had pretensions to be one of thee biggest clubs in europe. And now look at us. I don't think any fan in their wildest dreams, when they talk about "getting back to the top" these days, has any such fancy in mind. Our aim and dream is limited to being the cream of the crop in that very same small weedy pond that southampton wouldn't dip their toe in. Hardly an opportunity to cast aspersions at a club who kept their ambitions within the biscuit tin and are now all the better for it. Sorry to be so negative, but the s'hampton jibe just didn't work for me.

12 Jul 2013 10:28:03
@4 you honestly found that hilarious? jesus, I bet you think morecombe and wise are great, ffs if your gonny have a laff at gers expense, then make it funny

@6 I know where your coming from mate and it was only a wee cheap dig as we don't have much to go on. Il be honest and say Celtic are a very well run club but I do feel there being a wee bit tight at the moment & it's obviously winding the fans up that your best young players leave for the likes of Southampton & Wigan no disrespect intended just at the wind up. Then again I do think they might be saving themselves for when Rangers are back in the top teir to then splash out and rub our noses in it.

Larky Bear

Just a rip-off of the only an excuse joke about dundee. Nothing but originality from the dhims.

11 Jul 2013 11:58:00
The IPO literature stated £9m was to be capital investment into stadium infrastructure. Has any material improvement taken place? And I don't mean a lick of paint. The 2014 games is next years and the stadium has to be perfect or Scotland will be let down. {Ed001's Note - wouldn't buying the car park come under infrastructure? They will make a pretty penny out of that during the games next summer, that's for sure.}

Duff and Phelps stated they sold the Albion car park with Ibrox and Murray park as the assets to Green. Are you talking about another car park or Albion? And i'm sure it didn't cost £9m.
Now the DR is describing Green as "shamed" former owner, same as SDM and Whyte.

OP - if you are going to quote the prospectus at least read it first

Section E. 2a actually states that

TheCompanyplans to use the money raised from thePlacingto improve theinfrastructure of the Club. In particular, the Directors have identified:•upgrades to Ibrox stadium (approximately £5.5 million);•acquisition of land assets adjacent to the stadium (£4.5 million);•other identified projects which could result in additional revenuegenerating activities (approximately £3. 0 million);and•general working capital purposes.

That was the original plan, plans do change, let's see what happens

JG

@2/ Well that's £13m accounted for. Just how much was raised in the IPO? How much is left? You seem to read from a Green script but I have ye to see you question anything. Do you think all is well?

@3 -can you read pal? The prospectus never said all those things would be done, it said they had been identified FFS.

When I see posts that are fundamentally wrong then I will reply

The plan was to improve the infrastructure of the club, inluding working capital purposes. Questions will come at the AGM, that's the right place for them

Jg

JG

@4/ And would you say the infrastructure has been improved? A car park and a run down building, that's it? As for your AGM, good luck with that.

But JG the email released on charolotte shows urgent need to fix roof TWO YEARS ago - and hence it worked into IPO. but its rusting you cannot ignore a roof that's rusting.

when its unsafe, 30000 season tickets is meaningless if the stands are unsafe and cannot BE USED!

@4) sounds like your "working capital" means "operating expenses" which means it takes an IPO to cover operating losses of the company. Which means company goes bust when ipo money runs out. Is that correct?

@6 - is that the one that has started the troll blog campaign to have Ibrox safety certificate taken away,
do you lot never stop thinking about The Rangers?

JG

@8 (jg) nope. how are you not keeping up, the email to craig whyte as rangers ceo outlining the critical issues in the roof, with a chain of emails going back 2 years!!

have you read this email, its on the internet.

it is the source of the rusting issue, no lawsuits to say its fake, stolen or infringing dpa.

we seen you ramp the ipo last year, now you read from greens script each day, why not examine the evidence and expose it as fake if you can?

as malcolm said he does not want another div3 title at rfc, neither do i, but if you following greens agenda he does, as we heard in the tapes!

JG - here is link to costs on repairs to ibrox roof two years ago, so they will have got considerably worse

http://www.scribd.com/doc/148863285/Running-Costs

note: rust is not good roofing support over 5,000 fans who are heart and soul of the club.

no asbestos cert, now no repairs to roof.

11 Jul 2013 11:15:07
Can`t believe there is no comment on the shenanigans going on at the club. We are sleepwalking into another crisis. Everyrhing is negative yet posters are going on about " new " players who 18 months ago would not have been considered to clean the boots! Wakey wakey! Where is all this " cleansing of the club "? Where is the promised transparancy? Can ANY poster please tell me WHO OWNS our club "I am sick to death of what is going on.

Are you for real? The club is owned by the shareholders, dah!

Cleansing, Murray, Stockbridge, Ahmed, Green gone, I would say that is cleansing.

It looks obvious that Walter has taken Green's shilling to try and hold things together for the consortium. Worst case scenario would be another insolvency event and the loss of 28 points this season. Maybe Mr Murray can be prevailed upon to reveal the owners of the various constituent parts of the enterprise.

Paddy Malarkey

Isn't the sneaky wee rat Stockbridge still there? I personally was upset to see Malcolm Murray go fair enough the video didn't look good but which one of us haven't been drunk before? I'm worried at losing him & if Prior goes next it's revolt time why is Walter so silent he's everyone's hero but he's beginning to look sneakier by the day to me.

Larky Bear

To no1, stockbridge has not gone and sadly from our point of view he has his snout still firmly in the evergrown trough. Bt

Green, Ahmad, Stockbridge and Mathers run the show. Ally and Walter take the shilling and don't cause problems. Ashley creams off a few bob with the above six. Whyte claims he owns about a fifth of it all and holds bona fide securities over the assets from offshore apparently. So that's it.

To number 2 28 point deduction would mean wed still be 30 clear at the end

11 Jul 2013 10:40:11
Good Morning bears, a wee question for you all.
Can your club sustain the level of spending you currently have?
Let's look at some of the figures.
Money coming in. Season Tickets £9/£10m
Sponsorship £1m a season (Blackthorn)
Replica shirt income, based on shirts sold £2m?
Television revenue/advertisments £1m? (generous)
Roughly about £14m coming in.
Money going out.
22 Players on average £5k weekly £5.5m approx.
Coaching staff Ally/Durrant etc. £2m
Directors and others £2m (probably more)
Other paid employees £1m+
Repairs to stadium £2m (maybe more)
General running costs £2m
I make that £14.5m so already a loss of £500k
I know this is just conjecture but honestly are you all confident your club has the money to keep you afloat? Let's hear all your views Timalloy

Your figures are generous. The Blackthorn deal is around 300k for one season. Shirts are split with Ashley who owns 49% of any sales. You have also forgotten the unique bonus system at Ibrox which is quite ridiculous.

Timalloy surely the fact that your figures are all estimates, like us you just don't know. We need answers and at the moment they are in short supply, an AGM due and hopefully some awkward questions by the right people should clear all this up. PB

Firstly the average wage is not £5k a week. Only Black, Temps ane Jig will be on more than £5k. The youngsters, approx 8 will be on £2k a week.

You are guessing at shirt sales and Sponsorship. Even if your figures are correct, and they lose £500k then show me another club that is losing £500k a year. You have forgotten the wifi, the catering, the hospitality. So we are in profit with your figures.

Let's see what Celtic lose this year if no CL which is a distinct possibility. With £100 off season tickets (supposedly 125 year discount, with the real reason being that they are selling less). Less money in, with league reconstruction. I bet Lawell would take a £500k loss right now.

No I am not confident Timalloy, it was clear we had to build a team to progress through 3 leagues before were in the top flight, it's all fair & well saying sign SFL players with Ally at the helm what if we failed? I do not agree with some of the wages being thrown at players like Black, Cribari etc when there exactly key players McCoist is buying his way out rather than using pir superior talent & fitness along with tactical knowhow to progress.

The bonuses disgust me a small bonus I would accept but not the amount they're on I fear Green has us stitched up so that a percentage of all income will go in his coughers, I never trusted the man & I always believed Duff & Phelps/Whyte had a big part to play in how he was "the only show in town". Rangers well & truly is the biggest Cash cow in football at the moment, but hey from one fan to another can u say that u wouldn't support them however you can?
I'm purchasing my ST tonight Govan rear & I'm extremely excited that I can get back to the footy every other Saturday I missed it so the past 5 years due to work on the weekends but thanks to the new M74 I can make it no problem now.

There's turbulent times ahead for the Rangers and I really hope the fans can unite against the Powers that be before it's too late this time if it comes to that. Rangers is my team & I will support the 11 players on the park through thick & thin, we deserve better & hopefully the loyal fans will be repaid with a Club that not just us but Scotland can be proud of as our game needs a strong Rangers & Celtic I don't care what anyone says. I may not agree with the way the clubs being run but I can't make change alone I hope we can oust Stockbridge, Ahmed, Green & the Easdales & cut all ties from Ashley but I just cannot see it hopefully the fans eyes will open a little wider so action can be taken.

To some up your question just like Eds been saying its always going to be tough to sustain the club while we are not in the top division & just maybe when we get there we can be back to our best fair & square with Honesty, Pride & transparency throughout.
(Apologies for poor punctuation I think my spellings atleast ok lol)

Larky Bear

@2 any questions the fans want answered will will not be or they would have already been answered so the agm will make no difference us as fans had the chance when it came to st renewals but all those fans chose to buy and bury their head in the sand again

£0.5m/year aim listing
running repairs to ibrox £2m/year

Timmy, that is not a small question, its a huge question! and if everybody thinks last years accounts are going to answer it they are wrong!

The accounts about to be published are for last years operating revenue and expenditure and will include exceptional one of costs associated with the start up of a new company.

The year end accounts will tells us how we performed last year (we know we have made a trading loss) and how we are sitting financially, but the accounts will not confirm if this years revenue will be greater than our expenditure or the other way round.

It is the duty of our finance director and other board members to make sure we balance the books

JG

Green stated accounts would be better than Celtics. is that still possible?

In short Timalloy, no we can't.
I've said all along we're being mugged off and admin no 2 is just around the corner. Sad thing is its quite blatant yet the majority are more concerned with denial and being seen to be a 'true Rangers supporter? Whatever that is? I'll still be there on a match to match basis supporting the troops but I refuse to be part of this fiasco supplying the spivs with my ST money.

All UK clubs run an operating loss living out of an overdraft rather than use a bank they are using the Clubs bank account. There are lots of other corporate investment returns unaccounted for in your list. Sick of all the paranoia the club is healthy you sound like the great unwashed back the team trust Walter to watch the money.

@10 Paranoia- an UNJUSTIFIED suspicion or mistrust of other people.
With all due respect mate I think our suspicions and mistrust are wholly justified given that they're based on factual events.

@8. Still possible? It was never possible. You just believed it. John Brown told you rangers liquidation was worth 160m to celtic. He was wrong, its more, much more. He wasn't taking into account Celtics transfer dealings. Overall if the rangers are in the top tier in 3 years, they will be faced with a rival who is 250m richer. After 1 year its at least 45m. The increase will be exponential. Player wise they have ready replacements for vw and gh. They are becoming very experienced at the game they are playing and it really is light years away from the bankruptcy and incompetence at ibrox.

11 Jul 2013 09:54:29
Malcolm Murray ousted after putting a six figure sum into Rangers to 'keep the lights on' last year. This is a disgrace. There are far too many fingers in the pie at Ibrox. This upcoming AGM could and should turn into a real grilling for answers. What are Walter and Ally playing at? Walter in particular as he is the ideal person to lead the fans in truly cleansing Rangers

Walter isn't interested in what the fans want! So stop kidding yourselves on that he is! He is no better than any other person who has led the fans on with this"I am all for the fans" garbage patter! I thought people would have wised up by now but obviously still blinded by the "he a real rangers man" garbage!

Surely there's going to be proper audited and certified accounts at least six weeks before the AGM? For all shareholders to digest.
Of course all the suspects won't be there.

Green usually leaves before audited accounts, or closes subsiduaries before they need to release accounts.


odd he done this in several previous companies which all collapses loosing all shareholder investment money. how does he do this so often, and still get liked?

Can anyone find the 6 figure sum for electricity bill and prove this. ?

Hate to think the best Chairman has been removed due to enjoying a drink and being framed doing so.

guy was genuine fan and put his own money in, how much did green put in. £25,000 (which he may have got from whyte and imrans mum). ? that a 5 figure sum

did green get 8% of rangers fo6 £25k and Murray get 1% for £450,000??

no wonder murray upset. he ripped of by gansters and thieves