Rangers Banter Archive May 12 2012

12 May 2012 19:38:57
does anyone else think it is funny that the former member Al Johnston has said they passed all info to DM about GW and all and yet goes on to blame the sfa. if that did happen then the responsibility is with DM is it not?

i find it really funny how he says DM had all the info, basicly saying he know all about what was going on, and not say any blame or anything about DM but it is everyone eslses fault. does it make sence to anyone? hope their fans are able to ask the same question.

You are totally misrepresenting the truth again, Alistair Johnston simply stated that the SFA knew some of the the facts before they launched the enquiry , he does not blame them for anything.Your just another tool in a long list that feels someone from Rangers FC needs to come out on a daily basis and apologise for what has happened . Plenty people have apologised , McCoist , Jardine , Murray scores of fans even whyte .If you think a 140 year old football club should cease to exist because of the negligent/criminal mismanagement of a couple of recent guardians then you yourself cannot just be a football fan .

RS

12 May 2012 19:10:25
if ticketus are successful in their pursuit of £27m against CW. does that mean they are not pursuing us for the debt and are not in the CVA pot ?

ryanrfc

Yes that is what it means

No....check who their after whyte ...and rangers ltd! ....whyte will give up hios shares and ticketus will own the shares

@2 rangers group ltd are cw and are no longer trading tainted genius could be what cw may be remembered as if he gets away with this

12 May 2012 17:55:45
Duff and Duffer have just announced
that Mr Green will be next week's
Preferred KIDDER.... LOL Timalloy

Thats horrific mate, worst joke for a while...
craig+babybear

12 May 2012 17:02:04
Duff and Rip off 24hrs, 48 hrs we should know a preferred bidder, come and gone yet again. Smoke and mirrors is the expression fellow bears have used. I think tomorrow sadly might be the last of Rangers as we know it.
Murray and Whyte wont suffer its the people who paid their money every other Saturday.

Sadly i agree cant believe it has came to this, supporters that have gone to games every week to the ones that can only mange to buy 1 top a season they are the people that will lose out i only hope for the best but i just cant see it

12 May 2012 15:14:41
Rusty the tim here!!why o why is every1 else getting the blame from most rangers fans??d&p aren't in it for you or rangers,there in it for the creditors!just because there not picking tbk it's a conspiracy!!total nonsense!they have to answer to the courts you muppets!they maybe are rangers minded but obviously they never had the financial power to satisfy them.let's boycott loyds etc!why is it there fault?because they were looking after themselves.wouldn't you's?you can lead a horse to water,but you can't make it drink it!!dm got you's into this mess,cw dug you's deeper into it, now innocent people have to take the hit and try to get you's out of it!!!I also here Scottish football will die!why? Dont think all the clubs will fold,do you?yip it may not be competitive but give it a few year,teams will be more evenly matched and the youth will get a chance again!if rangers weren't in all this bother,how many of your youth players would have got a game??not many so look on the bright side!yes rangers will survive but they'll learn to keep in there budget and just maybe think twice on buying a 2million pound player and look closer to home!!take your blue blinkers off and take your medicine and accept people haven't got millions to bail you out and you's and every other clubs are businesses!!!hail hail rusty the tim

When you have debt of 80 million and get it down to 18 million and walter smith describes the clubs position as the best in 80 years it gets a bit frustating at the possition we find our selves in due to a wee greedy crook , while i agree its not anyone elses fault i do take the nip at all the vile and toxic remarks that come from other people espesh celtic fans

Blessed are the cracked, for they shall let in the light. What are you on Rusty?
P.O.P.

Dont you get it, Murray old Wattie,Blu Knights, sleekit sally and the rest are lying through their teeth,Rangers are going down your only hope is the good old SFA who are doing their level best to let you off lightly,sit there shut up and stop winning thats its everyone else to blame and they might throw you a lifeline

Dannybhoy

Time for everyone to look at the facts. Pure and simple it's Rangers fault as, like it or not, Murray and Whyte were both custodians and made the mistake's which will eventually lead to the clubs demise.

You stil cant see the light can you? your legends lied to you AM,WS,DM,AJ were all in on it and new exactly what was going on, yet like yous and them thought you were too big to get caught and thought you can get away with it. but it the situation is too big and way bigger then yous just to sweep it under the carpet which the spl are trying to help you. and dnot say your not because like they said they could have thrown you out but just slap a small transfer ban on you insatead

12 May 2012 15:05:56
THE TRUTH...NOT SFA, CELTIC or the
BANK but 100% RFC...

DAVID Murray sacrificed Rangers to save his business empire after bankers held a £700million gun to his head, it was revealed yesterday.

An SFA panel�s damning report also lays bare how close Rangers came to being kicked out of the association because of Craig Whyte�s disastrous stewardship of the club.

And despite Murray�s later claims of being duped by Whyte, the panel concluded he was well aware of the shady businessman�s failings.

The former Ibrox chief sold the club to Whyte knowing he was involved with a string of insolvent companies and there was no evidence of him having the means to run the club.

The appalling management of Rangers is exposed in the SFA�s Judicial Panel Disciplinary report, released yesterday.

It reveals how worried directors tried to put the brakes on the sale by having Whyte�s shady dealings examined by a private eye � but Murray remained resolute and eventually won the day.

The sale of Rangers to Whyte wiped £18million off Murray International Holdings Ltd�s debt to Lloyds � only around 2.5 per cent of their total £700million debt mountain.

But Murray was clear of the club, and its forthcoming financial and footballing armageddon.

The report details the reasons behind the severe punishments imposed on Rangers by the SFA last month.

And it reveals the panel considered terminating Rangers� membership of the SFA because of Whyte�s conduct.

At the time when Whyte was lining up his bid 14 months ago, Murray was desperate to bale out.

Murray International Holdings Ltd were under �serious pressure� from their bankers � HBoS, later Lloyds � to reduce their debt levels, the panel report says.

And when chief operating officer Martin Bain showed Murray a detective�s worrying report on Whyte, the Rangers owner said he had little option but to sell � and urged Bain to convince the board to BACK the sale.

The private investigators hired by the Rangers� Independent Board Committee found Whyte was involved with numerous companies which were soon wound up owing thousands of pounds in unpaid taxes.

And they could find no evidence of Whyte�s supposed personal wealth.

When Bain, a member of the IBC, received the �substantial and detailed� report on Whyte, it left him �very concerned�.

The panel conclude that, out of the IBC members, �at least� chairman Alastair Johnson was also shown the dossier by Bain before he presented it to Murray.

The report showed most of Whyte�s companies left a trail of debt, including unpaid taxes running to six-figure sums.

Whyte had promised the then Rangers board he could settle the potentially ruinous �big tax case� using £15million of his own personal wealth.

But he provided the board with no information about his companies or proof of funding.

When the Rangers board asked the Murray Group if Whyte had provided proof of funds, they were told he had � but the board never saw the proof.

And any concerns were raised to no avail, as the bankers held the whip hand all along. Lloyds had placed Donald Muir on the Rangers board to represent their interests.

Through Muir, the panel report states, the board became aware that Lloyds were �extremely enthusiastic� about the sale to Whyte for the nominal fee of £1 in cash and clearance of the club�s debt.

The SFA report says Bain was initially apprehensive about raising his concerns with Murray because he was worried about possible repercussions.

The findings say: �He took the view that once he had �crossed the line� there would be no way back.�

Bain met Murray in March last year and aired his concerns that the Murray Group and Murray himself had �lacked due diligence� in probing Whyte.

But Murray said pressure from the bank to sell to Whyte left him �almost no option� and asked Bain to get the approval of the IBC and the full board.

Bain refused to do so, the report said. And his broaching of the subject led to his once-close relationship with Murray being �damaged�.

The findings say that as well as the IBC and the board being leaned on to sell by Murray, Johnston was being pressured by Lloyds.

When Johnston and the board asked Whyte where he would find cash to repair parts of Ibrox and provide working capital, Whyte said cash had been lodged with his London solicitors Collyer Bristow and that proof of this had been shown to the Murray Group.

When the board sought confirmation from the Murray Group, they were told Collyer Bristow had provided proof of funds.

The revelations call into question Murray�s claims that he was �duped� by Craig Whyte.

He made the claim when the club entered administration, saying: �I was duped. My advisers were duped, the bank was duped, the shareholders were duped. We�ve all been duped. Is duped the right word? Duped is the right word.

�I deeply, deeply regret selling the club to Craig Whyte. If the information had been available to me at the time, I wouldn�t have done it.�

The SFA findings provide evidence that Murray was fully aware of Whyte�s past and lack of proof of funds.

The findings also state that prior to Whyte�s takeover, Rangers had been under �financial stress� and had owed �well in excess of £30million�, though that had been �substantially reduced�.

The Murray Group were in debt to Lloyds �in the order of £700million�. The report adds: �The Murray Group was under substantial pressure from Lloyds to reduce its overall indebtedness.

�The asset holdings of the Murray Group were in iron and steel, and in heritable property, and market conditions were unfavourable to profitable realisation of assets or the generation of funds from these sectors.�

The report also details how the board was split over the sale.

It says: �The directors were provided with no details or evidence of any financial matters or proof of funding or assets relating to Whyte or his companies. A number of directors became extremely concerned and sceptical about his good faith, status and standing.

�They remained very concerned about the absence of any form of verification as to his financial or business standing. Other directors took a less critical view.�

The panel report concludes that from May 6, 2001, until February 14, 2012, Craig Whyte was the �directing mind and will� of Rangers.

He deliberately failed to pay tax and information and accounts were withheld from the board.

The report says club legend John Greig and former chairman John McClelland resigned because they knew information was being withheld by Whyte.

Other board members, the panel report states, �could have made public the activities of Craig Whyte, of which they were aware or ought to have been aware�.

These concerns, the panel said, could have gone to the PLUS Stock Exchange and the lack of an AGM at Rangers should also have sounded alarms.

Their report concludes there was a �complete breakdown of corporate governance of Rangers FC�. These failings constituted �as serious offences against the ordinary standards of corporate governance as one could imagine�.

The panel, who accuse Whyte of planning not to pay tax from the outset, say only match-fixing could have been a more serious breach than the way in which Rangers was run under him.

They said: �The massive extent of the failure and the intentional and calculated manner in which it was carried out aggravated the breach even further.�

The report also reveals: �The tribunal considered whether it should terminate Rangers FC membership of the Scottish FA and concluded that punishment was too severe.

�It considered whether suspension of membership was a less serious but appropriately severe punishment, but concluded that too was too severe.�

A Lloyds Banking Group spokesman said last night: �The deal to purchase the majority shareholding of Rangers FC was a matter between Craig Whyte and Sir David Murray.

�The bank�s involvement was in relation to the debt owed by Rangers FC, which was repaid in full in accordance with all required regulatory checks.�

Celtic fans have always been accused of being paranoid.
After reading the SFA statement on the charges & guilty verdict against Rangers that there has been justification in this alleged paranoia. discuss

12 May 2012 14:19:40
Just read that SDM knew all about CW's past and that lloyds forced his hand to sell the club. I think a boycott is in order.

A boycott of what? Or do you plan to call on Geoffrey for help?

You have one game left! What you gonna boycott? Shouda listened to "timmy" we could see what was going on

This has been all over this site for months. You all, to a man, chose not to believe it. Instead everyone else has been blamed. Bbc, celtic, sfa, dufc, Lloyds, ad infinitum.

Of course he did, now strip him of that knighthood, any worse than Fred Goodwin, biggest scam in years

Ska bhoy

12 May 2012 12:46:04
the SFA have just proved they favour Rangers, so Rangers offenses were so serious they should have been kicked out, but no a paltry transfer ban, shocking decision by the SFA, and proves Rangers are getting preferential treatment
time the SFA grew some balls, and kick the appeal out on wednesday along with Rangers out the association

Main imposter - and you've read the report?
So why don't you goodie goodies do something about it. Like grow a pair.

Time you grew something else ,like grow up ,when and if we go , id love to see your suffering face mr faceless one doug t.s.o

The details of the report have been made available and were reported yesterday.

@ 2.) ha ha ha, you what? Mr Faceless one. You been watching Dodgeball? That's a brilliant post, by mistake, but brilliant! Scott

12 May 2012 11:45:58
I've been reading some of the Sheffield United forums to see what they think of this guy Charles Green. I'm afraid to say it is pretty awful. He sounds just like Mad Vlad! He left them in some state, sold everything, and he also told the manager what team to put out. I guess if it is survival or Green, then it has to be him, but if the things I have read are true, then he will be an absolute disaster. He'll just be in it to carve up as much of Rangers as possible and get too involved in the first team.

12 May 2012 10:47:08
prob wont get posted but would really appreciate answer.
I like majority of fans would love to see kennedy and tbk in charge of club. Especially after hearing kennedys plans. The deal is obviously still lower than other bids but not by much...can funds from the fighting fund be used towards the bid? I personally would donate another. £100 if it meant that we got the right people into the club like kennedy. He isnt in this to make money...unlike these consortiums/INVESTORS from london...they put money down...and take more back.
what do fans think about this?

Kennedy and tbk should simply tell the fans how much more money they need to save rangers and give us a chance to donate to them........if 50 000 fans inside ibrox gave £250 u can add 12.5m onto their bid. surely thats got to help

Why does kennedy just not dip in to his own pot to top the bid up? Cos he's a chancer waiting to buy for pennies after liquidation.wake up ffs,your getting played

12 may 2012 09:53:51
once upon time ther yous to be a team called rangers they had a derby what was the best in the world against ther sworn enemy celtic sometimes up to six times a year this would be watch by fans from all over the world and in the 60s celtic went on to win 9 titles in a row and lift the biggest prize of all the european cup this made rangers very mad and years later a prince to the rangers fans called murray turned up riding his big fat wallet he gatherd his loyal board of advisers and set around to beat celtics records but soon relised it was in vain so these slekit bunch of nogooders came up with a cunning plan we will steal and defroud the good peaple of britain and try to beat ther sworn enemy by any means but did not come close in europe but at home they went over 50 titles but celtic had a lovely star on top of ther badge that let peaple know that they once were the champions of europe so this cunning slekit mob and ther prince murray came up with a other scam we will put 5 stars on are tops but the good peaple of football just laughed and thought thats silly and very childish what wre they trying to prove , then years later after many more years of rangers fans singing songs of ther victorys over ther sworn enemy domesticly this prince murray could not get away from his beloved rangers quick enough and his loyal board and helpers were not far behind him this set alarm bells ringing to the peaple of this little country so they looked into it a bit more and found out that this prince and all to do with him were dirty lying theiving cheats that were willing to let rangers die in ther quest to out do ther sworn enemy celtic by any means the end now sleep tight and dont have any nightmares the english tim jodrok

12 May 2012 09:43:37
Well fellow bears, it's clearly obvious that we will be liquidated. If Duff and Phelps would have stopped their dilly dallying we possibly could have been 2/3 weeks through the CVA process. The Blue Knights deal seemed viable enough that it would benefit the creditors and the club. The Blue Knights were the only bidders who seemed genuine to save the club....for the fans and not to line their pockets. I fear the worst if preffered bidder status is granted to another bidder who has no interest in the club whatsoever. Liquidation seems a cert now and I am gutted, absolutely heartbroken.

I think it's time Mark Dingwall arranged another protest....only this time at the doors of Ibrox against Duff and Phelps!!! He was quick to to arrange a march to an empty stadium......well now is his moment to arrange a march to a stadium currently occupied by tweedle dee and tweedle dumb!!!

Let's see what your made of now Mr Dingwall!!!!!!!!

TTG

I can understand your frustration with Duff and Phelps but, and it is a huge but, they don't work for Rangers. They work for the court to get the best deal for the creditors not Rangers fans. Also, how can we judge if the TBKs bid is viable, we don't know what their bid was. Don't forget Paul Murray was on the board during the reign of SDM and seemed quite happy to endorse everything that happened including "outsourcing" all revenue streams other than gate money. So let us not pretend that he is in it for the sake of Rangers alone and don't rely on the RST, they are just enjoying their 15 minutes of fame. We are well and truly fecked and the worst thing of all is that we can do nothing about it. Come Monday, when there is no income coming into the club, we will find out what is really going to happen to us. As much as we have wished for a different scenario, we have to face the facts that green Jedi and his pals may have been right all along. As sad as that is the endgame is in sight.

Jackie

I think they do work for shwyte, look at the lenghts he went to get these muppetes on board as admin team! to me that says it all to me
jammydodger

@1 a lot of what say is correct. However stating green jedi etc were right is a joke. that lot changed what they were saying weekly and when news was released it's just been that long a process and with little options left they sound as if they were right. In fact some of them can't think for themselves and copied their mates posts.

12 May 2012 09:30:14
Morning Bears , Getting the feeling this is going right to the final day of may at this rate with duff n phelps .. But what really concerns me with the admin team is why set dead lines etc if they keep allowing bidders in last minute . Ok I fully understand about getting the best deal for the creditors but why as stated by Brian Kennedy was there bid ok last weekend and everything agreed in principle only for duff n duffer to say its now not good enough as ther are 5 new bids , finding it all a bit strange ... Not knocking the Green bid but I totally agree with Mr Kennedy with all this , this is poker at the highest level but I'm sure in the next couple of weeks a new owner will be put in place , can't see where the rangers connection is with this Green bid saying that it's up to whyte alone who he sells his shares to but now were hearing whyte won't allow the admin team to cut a deal as long as Paul Murray is part of the Kennedy bid !! A very confused airport bear .. Blue Kights for me up the brinksmanship knights and save our club !!

12 May 2012 08:19:30
Brian Kennedy, The Blue Knight's, no matter what amount they bid someone will bid more then after some more time is eaten up pull out for some rubbish reason. It seems these so called higher bid's are only there to let D&P drag this on until there is certain liquidation. If they really wanted to save the club and do what is best for the creditors (and not Whyte, as more and more people suspect) then why didn't the offer the Blue Knight's and Kennedy the same preferred bidder status that the had given before (they didn't require a deposit from "Mr it was the fans fault").
Why can't they now just tell all the so called bidders Monday is the deadline and that any bid made must be fulfilled by a contractual agreement that means there is no walking away after more time has been swallowed up. Have them sign papers handcuffing them to any bid they make legally financial, so they cant just pull out, if the think this is unfair or doesn't give them enough time for due diligence then tough, they should have bid earlier. If no one (and I include TBK's and Co) accepts then game over and onto Div 3 with Rangers 2012, if anyone accepts then the highest bid there and then regardless who it is must be accepted immediately or D&P would not be doing there job properly.

12 May 2012 02:40:30
There will be a big question if we lose the big tax case nd if nd when we r sold will whyte still have to pay the £15m THATS written in the contract when he bought rangers

12 May 2012 00:24:24
Yes D and P are trying to get the best deal for the Creditors, one of the secured ones being Craig White. The very guy who appointed D and P. This has nothing to do with the cornershop and ambulance service that have been bumped and everything to do with getting the best deal for the rat that is CW.

Pappy

Craig whyte is not a secured creditor at all, why don't you check facts before posting this crap.

Craig whyte will be in the clink sooner than he thinks , he might think hes totally secured his castle with his little moat , but theres always somebody out there a little smarter , eg handwriting experts for example , so soon the wrath of god will be upon him doug t.s.o

He owns 85%...that my friend is 85% security.

He might own 85% shares but the terms he agreed with murray have more than likely been broken so the deal should be nuill and void , why does he want to give them to someone else for a pound then ? ,2 months odd ago he was willing to give the fans the shares , the fans could have sold the shares to the highest bidder and the debt to the smallest creditors could have been paid off doug t.s.o

@1 Sorry, didn't mean to anger you. lol
Fair enough if I was wrong, but I do think there's something fishy going on with d&p.
Was it not £500,000 to secure preferred bidder then Miller was announced as preferred bidder with no mention of the 1/2 mil.
Anyway as you prob know, I don't know any of the ins and outs but think Whyte needs Rangers to liquidate for him to get the money he wants.

pappy

11 May 2012 23:46:32
So mr greens plan is for a newco well ive been a season ticket holder for 30 years and a share holder now what i want to say is i dont realy know what i will do next year a newco is not the team i support its another team and im not sure i can just jump over to another team it wouldnt feel right it makes me laugh that these buyer or potential buyers think we will just jump over to their new club and follow on like sheep i dont think this will happen a lot of fans will not return they are already lost to the game the longer this all goes on the more the love of the game is sucked out of them i know we need to be punished and i for one would go to the third div but the spl chairman want us in their league so they can get their buck from us remember we dont hand out the punishment but i for one have two season tickets in the govan front which may not be renewed i would say its leaning towards a no but rangers fc will always be with me

Who says Green wants a newco? it's just one or two media people who have said this no proof either way.

A newco would cost just as much as a cva that is why Miller walked away.

Till such time as we hear Green say the words newco i would take everything with a pinch of salt.

Exactly if its a newco then itl av to be new fans aswell