Rangers Banter Archive June 13 2012

13 Jun 2012 22:19:59
Just a point to note.

SDM (in)actions did not put RFC in administration.
The BTC (EBTs) still outstanding
Double contracts still outstanding

CW
Failure to pay Tax (NI/PAYG/etc) confirmed
Ticketus to pay Bank loan confirmed
Jelevic transfer fee, don't know.

It is the Ticketus and this year's tax bill which saw RFC into liquidation.

SDM issues, well they are for another day.

Your wrong.If whyte done what he should have,sold the big earners and trimmed the squad,paid the tax and ni you would have avoided this.But you know the support would have went mental.

You miss the point. LiQUIDATION had to come to expose murray and his crew. Anything not declared in the period of notice does not exist. The hmrc needed a recourse of action to bring into play omitted factors, this was the easy option. My consolation in the recent sad events is that the culprits will be be brought to bear. Maybe murray whyte and green are investors in duff and duffer.

The ticketus money was to pay off Murray's debts to Bank of Scotland. So that's really Murray.
Non payment NI bat and PAYE was to pay running costs after Ally got thrashed in Europe and domestic cups causing £15m deficit in budget. So that was Ally .

3) you have a short memory, we knew the dates of the European games and despite Whyte's promises and false bids they had virtually no players, if you remember Bocanegra had to travel by car across Europe to play. Ally may not be the best manager in the world but I am damn glad he's there, can you imagine if. some foreigner had been in charge for the last year. The man is and always will be a true blue legend.

1) you are wrong, we went into admin on 14th Feb, the transfer window was shut, we could not sell them because nobody could buy them. I am sure that any administrators would have sold the assets but not defending Duffers but they could not have sold them at hat time {Ed001's Note - not true, in a situation like this, permission can be sought from UEFA to sell players to any willing buyers. Did D&P even attempt to get permission to sell? If not they failed miserably in their remit.}

Murray ran Rangers as a hobby an expensive hobby but a hobby none the less. When times get tough you have to rein in for us mortals it could be golf membership for Murray it was Rangers.
Without Murray's backing the business model was flawed and without Europeit is bust.
No ambitious player would want SPL football without Europe and this is rhe best scenario.

5# Sorry your wrong.I posted WHYTE should have sold players in the jan window,if he did you would not have had D&P and this shambles.

13 Jun 2012 22:07:11
the BTC will have nothing to do with the newco, who will pay old rangers tax ? {Ed039's Note - They will pursue whyte and murray)

Not confined to Whyte and Murray everyone who has been a director head is on the block. No Nuremburg defence.

13 Jun 2012 22:04:40
world football has gone crazy, 3billion pounds for tv right epl, what a fn joke, when scotland becomes independent can we get our own satalite company going to give our clubs some money, our leauge could be alot better with a better tv deal, its just that the english tv companys will not take a chance on us

Cause we're crap! It's a joke league run by folk more interested in lining their own pockets than providing a decent game for the supporters to watch! 4 games against each other in a season...possibly more with cup games...yawn! Scottish football is dying thanks to the SPhell! No Rangers simply means an even worse prospect! What channel would even consider showing such dross! Except maybe BBC Alba!

The problem is that nobody wants to watch ninety percent of the dross that is Scottish football, in fact they are paying £80m over five years primarily for four Old Firm games plus the last games of the season.
The problem is that without Rangers they won't get the old firm games and the last games of the season when the league is won will be in October. They don't get what they want we don't get £80m.
You can set up a channel if you want but nibody watches it so no advertising revenue, so no deal.
The only way we can improve our deal is to play summer football, because Sky would bite our hand off for any football in the summer when they are reduced to showing other less popular sports.

Scottish football isnt dross its just scottish football. The epl is a manufactured entity which is barely related to football in england. It relies amost entirely on foreign players and foreign tv viewers. Even then the winners were bankrolled to success by a foreign dubious medievel type regime. You can understand why people are attracted to the product but If you want to watch any of these teams live just pop down to wigan and pay at the gate, its never full. I watched both legs of the airdrie v dumbarton play off on alba and saw 2 good matches between 2 honest scottish teams. No histrionics etc. And the fans of both teams were a delight. These fans go week in week out to support their teams in all weathers and are certainly not inferior to those of epl teams. Scottish football deserves more respect than it gets.

The spl was introduced at the time of celtic 9 iar. The old 18 Team league meant that for about 10 teams all their matches were meaningless as they were safely midtable. The Premier league has been an improvement but maybe needs looking at again. My problem is with the lack of local derbies in dundee etc.Thats just lost money for those clubs. A big debate is needed.

13 Jun 2012 21:45:30
just out of interest if lee wallace is sold by newco will newco have to pay hearts any or all of the £800,000 still owed?seem totally unfair if newco profits from an "asset" that has not been payed for ?

I agree Wallace should be returned to Hearts but only on the return of the £700k Rangers have already payed for him. I don't see why Hearts and particularly Romanov should profit by our downfall. Romanov deserves everything he gets though. Unfortunately for Hearts and their fans I feel they will be the next club to bite the dust. No way can they sustain the level of debt they have and things will only get worse for them due to loss of revenue etc. {Ed039's Note - I have been saying this for a while)

Hearts will get their money ,all football debt is paid from transfer cash

@1..in your scenario why would hearts return the money? You've had the use of the player so effectively you've just loaned him.

You cant return Wallace to hearts. Hes a man not a dog.

Rangers have also paid his wages so money should be returned to Gers.

You can be sure Romanov is waiting to see what happens to Rangers before making his next move. Hearts will go down the route at some point.

There is a difference between reducing running costs at a club in order to sell it on and a club going bust

13 Jun 2012 21:42:58
Rangers in crisis: Players will not be in breach of contract if they refuse to join newco, says union chief
Jun 13 2012

ibrox stadium large

RANGERS players are becoming increasingly frustrated at a lack of information over their futures, according to the chief executive of PFA Scotland.
Fraser Wishart tonight revealed the player's anxiety as he warned Charles Green that he cannot pick and choose elements of employment law as the club head to liquidation.
Wishart has rejected Green's claim that players would be in "breach of contract" if they exercised their right to leave Ibrox amid a change of corporate structure.
Green is poised to push ahead with a £5.5million deal to buy the club's assets and form a new club, which would need to apply for membership of the Scottish Premier League and be excluded from Europe for three years.
Rangers administrator Paul Clark last night said their lawyers had been in talks with their PFA counterparts and had different interpretations of the the Transfer of Undertakings (Protection of Employment) (TUPE) regulations.
The union believe players could leave for free and Wishart tonight raised the prospect of legal action should any who wish to do so be prevented from leaving Ibrox by the football authorities.
In a statement, Wishart said: "Should the players wish to transfer across to the newco, TUPE ensures that they do so on their existing contractual terms.
"Equally TUPE affords every employee the statutory right to object to the transfer; employers cannot select which parts of TUPE they wish to apply.
"If a player wishes to object to being transferred his contract of employment would immediately come to an end leaving him with no contract, no dismissal and no right to compensation from either oldco or newco.
"Both the club and the player are then free from their contractual obligations."
Some within the football authorities believe any player exercising their right to leave could be subject to a test case that could involve FIFA and the Court of Arbitration for Sport given that they will still be registered to Rangers with the SPL.
But Wishart said: "With regard to the question of registration, we are unclear on what legal basis the football authorities would be entitled to withhold the transfer of registration of any player in this situation.
"The European Court of Justice ruling in the case of Bosman is authority for the view that professional footballers are workers like anyone else and are entitled to exercise their right to Freedom of Movement when out of contract.
"PFA Scotland's role is to ensure that whatever the decision of each individual player, they are furnished with expert advice and guidance.
"Our legal team considers that there are a number of legal remedies open to a player in the event of their registration being withheld including the right to petition the Court of Session for a fast track Judicial Review Hearing.
"It may well be the case that all of the players wish to transfer across to the newco and if that is the case then PFA Scotland will ensure that their rights are protected.
"The players however are becoming increasingly unhappy at having to operate in an information vacuum whilst their futures are portrayed by others as being a fait accompli with no proper communication and consultation taking place.
"The players are being asked to decide upon their future with so many uncertainties involved.
"Unanswered questions such as which division the new club will actually play in, whether there be any sporting sanctions against the club, whether the club be eligible to play in the Scottish Cup and whether there will be a registration embargo.
"One or more of these factors may have an influence on a professional footballer's career - particularly since it a career that is relatively short-lived.
"TUPE also places a legal obligation on both the existing company and the newco to formally consult with the union/its members over a proposed transfer.
"Accordingly, PFA Scotland now looks forward to hearing from Mr Green and being furnished with information regarding the proposed transfer together with details of his plans for the future of the club."

13 Jun 2012 21:28:18
History does not die it just stops and the newco history begins. If it was as simple as building up a huge debt, liquidate and start over with everything remaining the same and history intact then every team would do it. Certainly a businessman with the morals of David Murray would have done it. Get a supporters trust set up to agree to pay back monies owed, take control of your club and sae it's history....only the fans have the power.

Jd

13 Jun 2012 21:14:20
im a hibs fan and my wife works at company house in the capital and they are over worked on new company names comming in with rangers in ther title this cost 16 quid alot of peaple is risking ther money on what name they will pick it is gona pay off for someone

Don't doubt that people are taking a punt. Seriously doubt it will pay of for any one

13 Jun 2012 21:10:56
Liquidation isn't punishment.
It's a normal administrative process for a bankrupt and rogue company.
Punishments are to follow.

One year suspension from Scottish football.

13 Jun 2012 20:46:50
would just like to gauge opinion of fellow bears click believable if you would PREFER to go to div 3

Err,wheres the believable button?

13 Jun 2012 20:10:33
rangers being banned from europe for 3 years for me isn't a big issue from a footballing prespective. yes financially it's bit of a concern but lets be honest europe is just for dreamers. we no longer are able to compete at any level in europe. the only satisfaction i'll get this coming season is seeing celtic being knocked out of euro qualifiers and wiping that smile off mr dilusional(lawwell).

How is Lawwell delusional?

@2: he probably thought a club the size of Rangers could never be liquidated, just like the rest of us. Ah well, how wrong we were.

Rangers are not banned from Europe for three years.
As a NewCo Rangers 2012 will have to serve the minimum three years in their domestic associations leagues to gain the necessary footballing history to apply to play in Europe. Nobody is banning them the new club needs to earn its spurs!

Cant play in Europe for three years as NEWCO, if we go third division then it would be four as we would have to get throuhg the leagues then in top 4 of Priemier.

13 Jun 2012 19:53:32
ED...please explain to these delusional fans that once liquidation starts rangers are no more!! The clue is in the name.... new as in NEWCO,means this new entity will never be rangers!!!!!!!stevo {Ed039's Note - Are you bored Stevo?? Yes they will not be the same Rangers but they may well be Rangers, but a new Rangers, you see the clue is in the name Stevo, NEWCO)

Nice one ED lol

Ed just block this fool he has nothing better to do with his time an his posts are the same everynight home life must be boring for him

@2: he's not saying anything offensive though, just stuff to wind you up and because it works you don't like it. Boo hoo ;)

Doesnt wind me up i just laugh , cos stevo will be the 1 greetin when he hasnt gers to play ,what will his next old firm game be ,celtic v brigton waverley lol doug t.s.o

@2 ..aye the mantra was liquidation,but hey am wrong again..dress it up& put as much lipstick on it all yous want,a new rangers,well lets see what name this new entity will be called..examples welcome...ma fav is Govan Tax Dodgers Est 2012...or zombie rangers fc...stevo

HAha cocky eh ED! bottom line is RFC are going to be extinct,stevo

Stevo ,same team ,same stadium bulk of the same players , and still humping tic like the good old days when it was billy mc neill and the easybeats lol doug t.s.o

7# You really are on your way to a secure unit doug.So rangers humped the lisbon team did they?Remind me,how many titles you won in the twenty years before souness? Walter Mitty just does not do you justice.

13 Jun 2012 19:27:27
See the press and other sites are saying we need to be punished.

1. 10 point deduction for going into administration, caused by failure to pay NI and Paye.

2. 1 year Europe ban for not submitting accounts because we were in administration, caused by failure to pay
NI and Paye. Potential loss of millions.

3. £160000 fine and transfer embargo, because we did not pay NI and Paye.

4. Despite the judge agreeing that the embargo was unlawful we have threats of suspension, expulsion.

5. Put into liquidation by HMRC because did not pay NI and Paye. End of 140 years.

6. Three year ban from Europe because we are in liquidation caused initially by not paying NI and Paye. Potential tens of millions lost.

And yet we need to be punished, just wonder how many times we can expect to be punished for not paying NI and Paye

Perhaps we should all be flogged publically, put in the stocks and pelted with rotten veg, or just hung, drawn and quartered.

The truth is Whyte did not pay NI or PAYE and yet do you think he cares one jot?

No , but we the fans care and yet we are the ones punished and still need to be punished more!

Here's an idea why not punish the guilty men not the hundreds of thousands of us that really do care.

And if there's lenient punishment, what's to stop all clubs doing what Rangers has done? Not all your points are punishments per se anyway.

Well said. We have been punished for loving our club and putting our well earned cash into it. Not to mention the fact that we all paid our taxes!

You probably think stripping oldco of 5 SPL titles and numerous cups and giving them to whoever was the runner up is punishment? Lol that's just setting the record correct, proper punishments would have to follow.

If titles were stripped then all other clubs finances would have to be examined closely for any possible discrepancies that have not yet come to light for at least the same period of time, and only then can a fair decision be reached. The EBT's were loans from the BANK that gave them regardless of who put the money in, if they haven't been payed back then it's up to them to persue it, if they choose not to, then that is there decision and nobody elses businness. And that includes the tax man (because it was never described or paid as wages (it has always been on record, and in the open since day one) and the taxman had to get the law CHANGED so they could call it illegal and retrospectively go after Rangers (with others to follow), and even then, it still hasn't been decided (in law) if what was done by Rangers, breaks any laws. So how could it be possible for the SFA or SPL or any others attempt to punish Rangers for something that might yet be shown as perfectly legal at the time.

OP, just because you post this (or a variation) every week doen't make it any more true.
Rangers broke rules and regulation and possibly committed criminal acts. True they may have been as a consequence of not paying NI & PAYE, but one does not naturally follow the other. Whyte could have cut costs when he knew his position (e.g. release players to cut the wage bill).
Here's my take on it; Rangers are being punished because McCoist wasn't a good enough manager. Had the team not exited two European competitions at the first hurddle Whyte would not have had to withhold NI & PAYE.
Or maybe its Murray's fault. Had he not sold to Whyte, Whyte would not have been in the position to withhold NI & PAYE.
Maybe it goes back further. Had rangers not been founded ...
Get my point?
Rangers are being punished for breaking rules. It doesn't matter what lead to those rules being broken.
Al

13 Jun 2012 19:06:26
Our future has been decided, newco.

The SPL chairmen are now given the responsibility of deciding not only our future but probably the whole of Scottish footballs future.

I have a feeling that they will allow us into SPL but will
want their pound of flesh, in other words look after
themselves.
I think they may insist on a 10-15 point penalty, assuming I am correct, what would you rather do -

1). Stay in SPL with penalties. Or
2). Enter division 3 and work our way up

Press disagree if SPL, agree for Div 3

I'll start with my vote , div 3
l

Have you ever been to a SPL3 match? {Ed039's Note - SFL matches serve the best pies lol)

Thats true Ed Stair park does a mean pie and bovril.

Mac

13 Jun 2012 18:47:22
NO SEASON TICKETS EQUALS NO GREEN EQUALS FAN BASED CONTROL

SAY NO TO GREENS TICKET

For sure the way forward,but who will front the fans consortium? The clock is ticking to the start of the season now and rangers are in limbo at the moment. {Ed039's Note - Thats the major problem, its too late now)

I don't get this turning on Green at all. Who do you want? The Blue Knights or Kennedy or McColl or Hunter or Souness or perhaps NG or Miller ?

Or do you want the RST or RSA in charge, god help us, ?

They had their chance did not offer enough dosh, so if Greens CVA with £8.5m was turned down, the same situation would have happened with BKs £5m.

Kennedys last man standing offer was nothing more than five minutes of fame. They are all full of pish!

I will support Green until he messes up but he is the only game in town, he is the only one that has stood up, the rest HAVE WALKED AWAY.

Ed an 2) both 100% correct its green or no newco how can some fans not get that thru there heads

Why the hatred towards green what has he done wrong if u read the HMRC statement they basically say they wouldn't have entertained a cva regardless and bk and tbk were only interested in a cva they stated that many a time so if they had been given the option to buy they would have walked green deserves a chance he is willing to try at least and before people start saying he wont stay for long or he only wants money he has already said that

OP, be careful what you wish for. I am wary of Green, but if you chase him out what next? Time is running out and I doubt if there would be time for anyone else (including the fans) to get things in place for the start of the season and were would that leave you?
I personally think that Green wanted the CVA to succeed and Rangers to be playing in the SPL with minimal sanctions. Niave maybe. Now he is faced with heavy sanctions if admitted into the SPL (I expect) and no European football for 3 years. I think he will walk away as I don't think he has the finance behind him for this scenario.
Al

13 Jun 2012 18:19:39
Here's hoping that somebody with two active directorships in the UK, a string of resignations, no obvious connections to collateral etc etc etc actually has his finger on the pulse and does FRONT people or companies with ready cash

Sane Bear

13 Jun 2012 17:38:49
Why all this talk of no history? It's not true Neil Doncaster stated a couple of weeks ago that a newco would keep history and answer me this if newco doesn't have any history then their can't be any sanction as they haven't committed any offenses however SFA have confirmed their will still be sanctions so regardless of what the rest of the SPL say NEWCO WILL KEEP HISTORY

I agree mate
trueblue

Middlesbrough were liquidated in 1986 and are still the same club they always were, as are Leeds who were liquidated in 2007, so will Rangers be in 2012.

20 years after Boro were liquidated and sent down to the 3rd level of English football they were in the EPL and a played in a european final.

It may take 5+ years to get back on our feet but we'll be back.

Weren't Rangers fans questioning his knowledge a few weeks ago. If the history of the old club goes with you then all the debt should too. How's you like those apples?

@2: Leeds weren't liquidated.

The Rangers history will always be there. However, it has now stopped "trading" so there will be no more added. The Newco Rangers will start with no history but will build a history over time. Simples !!

edg

Neither Leeds nor Middlesbrough were formally liquidated. As per Ed039 reply on this yesterday.
Stop telling misleading lies. {Ed039's Note - Leeds Utd were not liquidated, Middlesbrough were, Steve Gibson created a pheonix company to register in the football league with literally minutes to spare on the registration deadline but the original Middlesborough FC were liquidated and are dead)

Leeds were FACT do your research idiot {Ed039's Note - Leeds Utd were not liquidated. Ken Bates created a pheonix company to take over day to day running of the club, quite a controversial move which was challenged by HMRC, but I believe Leeds are still Leeds)

Leeds were! {Ed039's Note - No they werent, from what I know Ken Bates set up a Pheonix company to run the day to day operations, it was a complicated one but Leeds United were not formally liquidated. Bates set up a deal to pay creditors 30p in the £ if they reached PL in 5 years which took Leeds out of administration)

Corporate insolvency law says no history.
UEFA regulations says no history.

History has nothing to do with SFA nor SPL it's not mentioned kn their statutes. They can't let rangers keep their history in a newco. Move on--- get out of denial.

No they never, They paid all creditors

@7: who's the idiot now? Check your facts before dishing out the insults.

Correct Ed, Leeds were not liquidated. Bates saved them at the last minute.

DazzaBhoy

13 Jun 2012 16:59:59
Why are we worried about the SPL vote? We should be starting in the 3rd Division with a small core of senior players and the rest of the squad should be made up of our youth players. Small salary cap with an end of season bonus to the players if we win promotion.

Let's take our medicine, save some face, start off in the 3rd division and if we play youth then by the time we get back to the top we will have a team who has played together for years and who has gained valuable experince.

No European football, who cares. We should not be banking on having European money as part of our yearly income/budgets so 3 years without it will give us the experience on how to run the club on an even keel and if/when we do get back into europe this money is then a bonus to the club.

The club has been run into the ground for years by certain individuals and we have been severely punished so lets now start to put things right once and for all. Us the fans need to take control of our great club and stop individuals taking us for a ride and basically stealing our money.

The Pilot!

Too true pal. Im pi//sed off with all this crap. My shares have gone. Lets start off again. It wasnt the fans who caused all this it was SDM and that crook WHYTE. The newco can rise from the ashes walk through the wee divisions and then get our revenge on all the tosser directors etc who kicked us when we were down. We shouldnt even apply to get back into the SPL. Take our punishment [our previous boards did the crime] and move on. Europe doesnt matter for 3 years . By the time we get back into it we should be stronger and will maybe mount a credible challenge WATP SAUSAGE BEAR

Every bear i know say the same thing. bbb :o)

13 Jun 2012 16:43:51
How can CG say all players transfer over to newco along with our history yet our dept dies and we get to keep stadium and Murray park? Why bother with a CVA and waste our money when we could have saved the time and money and started a newco when season finished?

Campsie Bear

Because he needs season book cash to buy.You really think this guy will spend %m of his own cash? Has he even got that kind of money?

Because Green is lying again. "We have a deal with HMRC" ring any bells? He is dead wrong about the players transferring over too, they can if they want but equally they can walk for nothing. He did say when he was slagging off King for wanting the CVA blocked that the history dies when the club is liquidated.

13 Jun 2012 16:23:41
Uefa have been decisive - 3 year European ban no discussion
They have only been interested in the rules and the sporting integrity .
Spl has to be decisive ? How do they give the same type of penalty and apply the rules for a newco keeping their integrity , and not showing favoratism or being influenced by the the money .
If not will FIFA then decide for them .
Discuss

Uefa and FIFA integrity surely your having a giggle ?

The difference is that UEFA have a rule book and it says no Europe for three years. I think in this instance both SFA and SPL should take note. If you have a rule book stick to it, there's a novel idea.

Rangers oldco/ newco will be suspended from Scottish football for a year.
SFA cannot do anything else.

If they'd stuck to it there wouldnt even be a slim chance of a team calling themselves Rangers playing next season because they'd have suspended RFC for a year.

13 Jun 2012 16:22:37
What should we do about the season ticket renewals ?

My thoughts exactly. Renewal through the post on Monday anticipating CVA agreement but to no avail. £544 required for payment by 29th June. Where will be playing, who will we be playing. Are we expected just to hand over the money and wait and see what happens?

There might be no team playing in Glasgow.........
Charles Green.

13 Jun 2012 16:15:30
As we will probably get sanctions to stay in SPL and its pointless going to SFL 3 and we're not allowed to apply to English Leagues due to us being a Scottish team.

Why can't we relocate playing field to just over the border so technically we will be an English team (or ground share) and then apply. Keep Ibrox as our training ground to keep Scottish links, hire it out for concerts to make extra money. Sell Murray Park

After establishing ourselves in the English leagues after a couple of seasons try and relocate back to Glasgow

Great idea! You got the 50m for a new stadium just over the border? Unbelievable.

These playing in England plans are getting more and more bizarre.
This one; the club has no money. How could a club playing in the depths of the English league system afford to keep Ibrox, just as a training ground? Who would buy Murray Park as it can't be redeveloped into anything useful.
Our league may not be the best in the world, but it is where Rangers will be playing (if at all) for the foreseeable future, so get used to it.
Al

13 Jun 2012 15:29:29
Who thinks Rangers Players and Staff
will get paid wages in full for June?

If not what will be the consequences?

SPL recently voted in new rules, one of which related to paying players on time.
Al

13 Jun 2012 15:24:35
Duff & Phelps said they had no idea that taking transfer ban to the law courts was against UEFA regulations, despite just about every football fan knowing this, but they are certain that player contracts can be transferred to a NEWCO!
Green said 2 weeks ago that a deal had been struck with HRMC.....then this happens.
When was the last time someone at Rangers actually told the truth?

13 Jun 2012 15:11:37
Mr Green is in todays papers saying that the SPL chairmen must vote Newco Rangers FC straight back into the SPL or they will kill Scottish football .... Well i beg to differ , if they do then Scottish football is DEAD , no one will ever take us serious again , Rangers have done wrong and broughtr great shame and embarassment on our country , but they cant see it and portray themselves as the aggrieved party , a bit of remorse and humility would be a good place to start .

13 Jun 2012 14:36:31
Celtic Fan here, I hope your great club recovers from this and I hope you are in the SPL next year, the league won't be the same without Rangers.

Degsy

Don't slate me I've seen other fans like Everton fans wishing your team good luck and some fans have had a go at them...

Cheers Degsy!

Its a heart-breaking time. I felt the same way when you guys nearly went to the wall before Fergus!

Bluegenius

As a dundee fan , we are not ready for spl.
hope you stay in spl , but i think the gang of vulters will circle above ibrox.

13 Jun 2012 13:50:47
I don't know why everyone is so surprised that SDM is a rogue. Ask anyone unfortunate enough to work at MIMTEC in Inverclyde the the 90's. MIMTEC was a Murray company that was such a bad employer that if you lost your job the Burroo signed you straight back on without penalties a notion that was previously unheard of!

And still they gave this man a knighthood!!!!! - Randolph

We should all contact our MPs... and get him stripped of that title ASAP... this man has robbed our club for years and we were to "blind" to see as long as we had our titles and cups, shame on him ... if he has any gumption he woudl hand it back without asking for it.

Also please remember, it was SDM who put Airdrie out of business, for the sake of £75k and said at the time that "business was business"!

Wonder why Sandy in royal blue did not organise a march to murrays offices? In fact he has been rather quiet for a while.

You can start your own online petition to Parliament and, if you get 100,000 legitimate signatories,it will be debated by MPs - a lot easier than marches, etc.

Paddy Malarkey

13 Jun 2012 13:29:56
Ed, do you know wether the SPL or SFA can still punish a newco for the dual contracts, or bringing the game into direpute? I would have thought if it is a brand new club, with absolutely no history, then anything from the old club can't be brought onto the new club can it ? Correct me if I'm wrong, but if the new Gers get punished from the old Gers, surely the new gers must still have their history? {Ed001's Note - they can't punish the club for things that happened to the old club, no. What they can do, is attach conditions to their entry into the SPL or SFL.}

SPL chairmen elected 2 weeks ago to not limit themselves on newco conditions. Could be 30 point deductions for 5 years, to get the required association history to play in Europe.

13 Jun 2012 13:20:07
why are people saying newco have history?

Because its a NEW COmpany. If a Newco is seen to be trying to pass itself off as the Old Co then HMRC can chase them for theOld Co's tax liabilities. You can keep the football history if you pay back the £100 million plus that paid for some of it.

The issue is not whether Rangers �loses� its history; it is whether newco Rangers agrees to keep it.

13 Jun 2012 13:12:35
What happens to the club's history?

The Rangers Football Club PLC is a public limited company registered in Scotland (company number: SC004276) and was incorporated on 27 May, 1899. When the current company is officially liquidated, all of its corporate business history will come to an end.

When this happened to Airdrieonians in 2002, all of the trophies, titles and records associated with the club were discontinued and a new club, Airdrie United FC, took over. Airdrieonians' official history ended in 2002, then Airdrie United's took over.

The answer lies principally in the eye of the beholder. Some supporters will view the new Rangers as the same Rangers, while others will feel the old Rangers no longer exist.

bbc

13 Jun 2012 12:52:54
Hibs fan here. Sorry to see what these D@@K HEADS have done to your club. Hopefully a full investigation is done and you guys get answers. Down but not out, im sure us Hibs will be back at Ibrox in the near future.

13 Jun 2012 12:47:09
now that bdo take over the liquidation of the club can they now sell to say the blue knights if they offer more money to buy that assests?
i cant believe duff and duffer can sell the assests believed to be worth over 100 million for so little

13 Jun 2012 12:37:28
Ok, I have been reading this rumours page for weeks now with regards to the Administration, Tax Case, Take Over’s, CVA’s etc and I have to come at it all with hard facts rather than the garbage which has been on here recently e.g. 50 extra security ordered for ibrox etc!

So here it goes;

We were put into administration by Craig Whyte, no one else, the reason were put in administration, is due to him not paying PAYE or Tax, why didn’t he pay it because his gamble of European football didn’t come off! So at the end of the day as we head towards liquidation, this is all Craig Whyte’s doing. With that point we did not enter administration due to the big tax case (EBT’s), the ruling for this still hasn’t been made, so all the talk of this being Murray’s fault is rubbish, we are being liquidated due to Whyte!! Do I think Murray was right to sell to Whyte……….no, do I think that he was doin right thing with regards EBT’s no, but we still we are not in this predicament because Murray took us into liquidation, it was WHYTE!!

Now onto Green, this guys has said on numerous occasions, he is in it because he thinks that he can make money, now when it comes down to it, were more likely to be successful in the long run if we have someone with a sensible business head leading the company forward, Murray threw money away and we had success it was great but on a financial footing it didn’t help, Whyte………….well we know what happened there, so I need not go into that anymore, but the point im trying to make is, if we don’t get behind him, then there will be no team, we still have a chance of making a successful team/club in the long run with our history in tack if we come together, I think a lot of the guys who post stuff on this, don’t realise that there is no one else willing to pay the money which we need to get to a healthy financial situation.

So in short
1. We don’t buy season tickets, get behind Green, Rangers will die!
2. We don’t campaign as the Rangers family with Green leading the charge, Rangers will die!
3. We continue to dwell of this and that RANGERS WILL DIE!

Now lets all come together and get this job done, because I am RANGERS TILL I DIE and im not letting my club disappear!! {Ed001's Note - you seem to be missing the point that Whyte took over a club that had been so badly mismanaged by Murray that it was on the verge of admin either way. Whyte just took a gamble on European football to give the club a chance of surviving, when he should have just sold everyone. But the original problems were caused by Murray, no one else.}

Murray certainly got us into the mess to begin with but our debt was still manageable in the hands of capable leadership when he was "duped" by the conman in May 2011.
Look how much debt we had when Whyte took over and how much debt he incurred.
Both are equally to blame for the demise of our club and i would not have any sympathy if they were taken all the way by the relevant authorities

JG

Sheer stupidity.If Whyte had done what he should have done when he took over,Sell the big earners asap,you would have hounded him out! You also might not have finished second(although with the payments held back thats kinda moot) Or qualified for europe.but you would still be here in your original form.

13 Jun 2012 12:00:37
Well that's it done, the decision has been made, despite the outcome i'm relieved.
Now we can move forward and rebuild.
I'm of the opinion this will make us stronger in all ways in the long run and lessons have been learned.
I always try to take the good out of a bad situation, for me it's that this will now be properly investigated and those responsible will get their punishment.
We all know who they are, and they think they are untouchable, think again.
We will have one of two routes decided for us by the rest of the SPL and to be honest, i now couldn't care less what one is decided. (If it is div 3 then we should at least try for entry into the blue square north).
Do we stay in a stale league? do we have to move down to the bottom and work our way back up?
Whatever happens the squad as we know it will change in the coming months, we will loose players on the cheap and that will be hard to take, there will be gloating there will be anger.
But lets not forget we are where we are due to individual greed and ego trips and this should always be remembered and highlighted at every opportunity.
It will do no good thinking what we(supporters) could have done to help our club, truth is, there was nothing we could have done to avoid this but continue to support our club.
This situation has set a precedent in the Football world and other clubs will follow.
We are Rangers, super Rangers!
BR

You WERE Rangers.

We still are rangers and don't forget it we will be back in some form and it won't be long until we are on top of the SPL again

13 Jun 2012 11:34:12
WATP now takes on a new meaning, WATP/NOT THE BUSINESS. This should be our new slogan. For too long so called business men have wripped the heart out of our glorious team and the working class men who worked hard to support them through thick and thin. Now is the time to stand up..No moore CW,DM or Mr Green. They are all out for themselves. Lets run a peoples club and get back to our roots and ethics of The famous Glasgow Rangers. I would rather have no money and have our great supporters running the club. Many are laughing at our club now but we will rise again bigger and better.
Rangers til I die - Colin

13 Jun 2012 10:47:30
Does the hall of fame become void now ed? I think its time to name and shame every member of staff who was on EBTS. {Ed001's Note - I have no idea what will happen with the hall of fame.}

It will not be part of the new company but can be put as a historic museum like room or source

Gattusso was on EBTs and u wanted him back. He said he wanted to finish his career with Rangers.
Will he now come to div3 to help the new club?

Leave the staff. if my boss told me my tax would be reduced id be happy.
the playing staff for rangers play for the shirt. we have had some duds but not there fault manager signed them.

Have you seen rinos contract? How does a nobody like you know this to be true?

13 Jun 2012 11:13:39
You lot have been well shafted....I really feel for the true fan here! As a non old firm fan i feel frustrated at the way the FAN has been used and a perfedtly functioning club has been slapped around. This whole thing has got dodgy written all over it.

Duff and Phelps needs investigated
DM needs investigated - especially his relationship with CW.

Italiano

13 Jun 2012 10:18:14
Bears,as season ticket holder for the past 15 years this whole situation baffles me. Fed up of the blame game,all i want now is to look after my own interest. Where do we stand with our tickets? Surely the renewal forms are void? An old company cant take money now i would imagine? How does mr green expect fans to pay for something you dont know the full
content of. Where do the honest fans stand? James

For God's sake don't hand over any money to this chancer!

13 Jun 2012 09:57:02
Why do rangers fans even bother coming on this anymore, its just all celtic fans talking bs and when a rangers fan does post something they all just click disagree. absolute gimps

Your hurting there, I can see it, but its the biggest story ever to hit Scottish football, and if it was the other way round am sure there would be plenty of bears giving it good

Vambo

Full of celtic fans talking b/s if you lot had taken on board what was being written by informative celtic minded freelance journalists over the past year or so and taken some sort of action perhaps you wouldn,t be in the position you find yourselves today.jimbo

13 Jun 2012 09:33:30
ALL CELTIC FANS AND MORE:

Think twice before coming on here today to gloat once more.

Show respect to your fellow fans, that is the true Glasgow Rangers THE fans.

As far as I am now concerned its time to walk away from the SPL. Let them all have their wish and lets move to the 3rd. Its time to be re-born.

I'm sick of the circus and the bating for blood its time to stop.

GDog
WATP

Gdog I sympathise with genuine, decent Rangers fans, I cant begin to imagine how horrible it would feel if it was Celtic pre Wee Fergus I knew it was close to the bone but always had some blind optimism it would be resolved but here it has been relentless revelation after revelation that made a quick recovery nigh impossible so to a fellow fan I sympathise but you immediately do yourself harm in your plea with WATP, there has always been an aloof loftiness about that line that one I didn't believe and two I felt was always borderline arrogance, so don't ask for respect while still looking down your nose at everyone else OR drop the stupid mantras like WATP, WDDWA and In Craig We Trust - oh wait, you dropped that one already, only two to go then.
Gaz

Is the newco name 'Glasgow Rangers'?

Gaz, without wanting to fall out with you;

I have already explained my use of WATP on here before to other Celtic fans. Its really quite simple your understanding or what people have led you to believe is WRONG!

I refer to a phrase my grandfather used and his father. So I really couldn't care less what you think it stands for. Maybe you and many others should lift your head out of the sand and just for once stop trying to find hatred in everything you see and hear.

I share no hatred, I do not hate Celtic, anyone or anything. I have no interest in what you believe or do not, that is yours to carry.

You need to start focussing on your own life, living it the by the correct standards which looks to me to be based on a fairly sound education if I'm to read your response with sense.

So Gaz why dont you stop concerning yourself with me and what you think I may stand for. This is part of the problem with Scotland and where we are today.

I will carry on as I see fit. I can assure you I know what I say and what it means whatever anyone else tells you is a liar.

Be safe.

GDog
95/7

No worries Gdog, well put. It was me that agreed with your post by the way. Now what does 95/7 stand for? (he asks suspiciously lol).
Take care
Gaz

WATP is a very recent unfortunate term and was never used my anyone's grandfather nor his father, unless hey used it recently.

13 Jun 2012 08:27:10
I know this is subject to much debate my understanding from being involved in the voluntary sector where contracts are won and lost frequently is that staff do not have to go with new employer!
However, I would ask all players wanting to leave to transfer over to Newco, get transfer fee, even a nominal one, and insist that this is used to pay off small creditors who have been hurt by all this.
I am in favour of starting again in div 3 and working our way back to top. Actually quite excited about the radical overhaul this could bring thousand by our actions the rest of Scottish football, invest in kids, get benefits of training ground ( I refuse to issues official name anymore!) and start with dignity and a bit of humility!
All these nonsense posts from Celtic fans about history are just sour grapes and wishful thinking! I know my clubs history and I have my memories and no one least of all Celtic fans can tell me different!

13 Jun 2012 07:39:18
If it is Div 3 ... do I have to join the Travel Club to go to away match at Berwick ??

13 Jun 2012 06:18:58
The amount of rubbish about Rangers losing history on here is ridiculous.

Anyone with an internet connection could look and see that Middlesbrough formed a newco in 1986 and are still the same club they were when formed in 1876 same goes for Leeds utd, Luton town,Chalrton athletic who all fomed newcos over the last 25 years, this route out of admin has been around in England for decades.

All a newco means is a change in the company number, 3 year ban from Europe for corporate restructing as uefa call it and maybe not playing in the spl next season.

Can't see what will be different about a team that will play at Ibrox wear the same kit, have the same fans and possibly the same players next season? {Ed001's Note - none of those teams were liquidated, huge difference.}

Ed, you are incorrect here. With Leeds, their Golden league share was transferred over to the newco (pheonix) and the oldco was liquidated and ceases to exist. {Ed001's Note - yes, AFTERWARDS. The old co in this case has already entered liquidation, it is too late now. So I am not wrong. It is not a difficult concept to understand, why can't you grasp that no liquidation proceedings had begun against Leeds prior to them being transferred? They were liquidated afterwards, when everything of value had been transferred into separate companies, under Master Bates control, in order to give him lots of profit in the future. When the old co was just an empty shell, it was then liquidated.}

13 Jun 2012 04:47:54
Why not change the name from "Rangers 1872 FC to Rangers 2012 Nee RFC 1872?" No regulations on size of name is there?

Just like there were no regulations on the size of the unpaid debts ;)

13 Jun 2012 01:54:55
ed can rangers be saved from liquadation still or is this the end i have been debating this with friends i think its possible but highly unlikely,mates saying its the end once cva is rejected thats it,there is no other outcome than liquadation {Ed001's Note - as far as I can find out, once the liquidators step in, that is it, end of.}

13 Jun 2012 00:40:27
Ed - can someone please explain to me how Green can buy and reform a newco for 5.5 million pounds. Now, I am no property expert but I am sure that Ibrox and the training ground alone are worth a hell of a lot more than that. The liquidators have a duty to collect as much revenue as possible so they have to sell to whoever for the fair price...? {Ed001's Note - I think that the liquidators will have to accept the highest offer, if my understanding is correct, not any previously agreed deals. So Green would have to pay more than the next highest offer. It will come down to who else wants to buy it.}

I agree, it seems a paltry sum, but i think administrators have a duty to try and keep the company running, which liquidators do not, bdo can challenge it in court if they think its crooked.

Heard there's a higher bid coming in from the east(end)New trining ground needed

I agree with Ed001, the highest bidder will buy the assets and whether anyone likes it or not it may be Tesco.
BDO have the powers to unwind any deals that D & P have done with Green. Green will not takeover at Ibrox.

13 Jun 2012 00:29:46
Here is the positives. Debt free nd still able to play at ibrox they have to work with us. Negatives we have to rely on the other clubs nd we could lose our history nd b4 the dust is settled still pipe bombs there that will only be with the old company. Most of Celtic fans will wont want us in spl nd the real Celtic fans will want us n spl. 50% of the fans know the spl need us nd the fake fans wont. The other clubs better start looking at there account books.

Debt free, you have traded that for the titles and history that cant be transferred to a Newco, No honour or you would go to the 3rd. No players as they are free to walk,no europe for three years and if the SPL chairman stick to fans wishes no SPL for you. Yip there are a lot of positives there right enough!

Rangers fans need to get together protest against these shysters running your club, if need be start again at least then you will have a team and a history to be proud of ,unlike now as whichever way you slice it you are and will be classed as CROOKS AND WELCHERS

Dannybhoy

You are all trying to blame other clubs and talking about what they should do to help you, you all seem to forget you got yourselfs into this it's no ones fault than your own so man up and deal wi it

13 Jun 2012 00:02:35
So Celtic fans want rangers to lose their history and can't transfer it to a newco but they want punishment for brining Scottish football into disrepute to be passed to Newco. How does that work?

We supposedly didn't have the money to be successful but we did. We just paid it to a scheme for players to save on tax.

Celtic fans are obviously blinkered since they are desperate for rangers to lose titles and will throw mud no matter what.

Plus what stops a newco putting 5 stars on their jersey? We were told we couldn't put 5 stars on our shirt by Celtic fans in the first place because it is meant to represent European cup but surely we can put stars on a shirt as it represents what we say it does.

Ryan

Would think you have more things to worrie about then Celtic, but it just shows you what is truley important to you and that you think just like DM which got you into this mess. but at least Celtic will be around forever so you will always have something to talk about, just please leave the hate and arrogence go with your club because its a new begining. and if you were truely paying attention you would know that it is all of the Scottish football and in Europe that want justice. how many ppl you owe money to?how many ppl did you cheat/scam/rob?

Do you know any thing about the reason rangers dont exist any more it is nothing to do with the ebts peaple like you just live to hate celtic your not a football fan your a joke go an educate your self rangers are in this mess becouse the tax has not been paid for anything for about two years, the ebts are still out standing, i cant stand peaple like you that is gona bring your bad blood in to the new co ,we have a chance to start afresh lets get rid of this bad blood and its everybody elses fault attatude

Mate you can have 1,000 stars on your shirt for all i care,garlar07

You did not have the money the extra rangers would have to paid the players to match the amount they were taking home .
the amount i hear talk about about total paid out was 24 millions so for the players to get that amount after a tax rate 0f 50 percent was 48 million pounds this does not include ni and pension payments so if rangers had matched the amount recieved by the player to keep them, it would have cost more than they could pay out .

Dont give any creedance to anything any other club supporters say, they will have their own agenda's as far as Rangers are concerned.

Ryan I will explain.

It works because Rangers are no more (no history for the newco) As for the punishments Rangers have and continue to try and wriggle out of past sins,if you want back into the SPL they have the right to impose sanctions,or as your crooked owners seem to think do you agree its right to swindle all the little people out of money?

Hope its clear for you now

Dannybhoy

God listen to sum of the replies to op " you robbed,you cheated" are you suggesting the op robbed and cheated people? oh dannybhoy rangers newco owe no tax,have no debt,and cheated no one FACT! if there is to be sanctions it should only be for being let straight back into spl. if you suggest different then you yourself are classing newco as oldco...mark.

Thanks mark. Right to number 1 and 2. I'm my original post where is my hatred for your club. I don't Celtic and enjoy the banter between fans. I've to worry about my own team but here you are on a rangers site? Explain that to me then? The point I was making because Celtic fan shout loudest about losing history and losing stars from the jersey doesn't make you right. Yes we could put 1000 stars on it - it's what we say it represents. That's my point. Now take your own advice and go back to your own page

12 Jun 2012 23:53:23
ed rangers fc 1872 isnt liquidating only the plc dormed in 1899 is the new rangers football club will still be formed by the founding fathers only the new plc wwill be reformed by whoever it is tht takes over also we do niot lose our history paul clark confirmed this and stv said it the newco gets the honours lists

FFS Paul Clark was a bampot who didnt know what he was doing a week ago and you lot wanted him out, now you hang on his every word when it suits ! GET A GRIP! History has to be made and a NEWCO hasn't made it yet GET IT?

Briggs

Rangers 1872 stopped as an entity in 1899 when a new incorporated club was founded to satisfy Scottish football league requirements for clubs to be corporate entities. Rangers FC 1899 is shortly to end, paving the way for Rangers 2012 to be founded.

Rangers FC 1872 doesn't exist it ceased to exist in 1899.

Absolute tripe I'm afraid, Paul Clark doesn't know much about football clubs, his performance with HMRC has been dire, his performance with SFA disciplinary committee has been dire, don't be exposed as foolish by the guy.

Paul clarke talks b0ll0x.

If the NewCo tries to pass itself off as the OldCo then HMRC and other creditors can pursue their money. Piercing the corporate veil is the legal term.

Pay your bills keep your history.

If rangers 1872 ceased to exist in 1899 then surely the Celtic prior to 1994 ceased to exist after 1994 would live to know how they worked that out if that's the case more or less all football teams would have next to no history

@7: different scenario.

@8 how is it a different scenario rangers have a 140 year history dating back to 1872 if that company ceased to exist in 1899 then it would be 113 years of history so celtic with there name change would mean the same no history before then {Ed001's Note - are you for real? You can't really be that stupid surely? Rangers will cease to exist, Celtic merely changed their name. How is there any similarity in the minds of anyone with a brain in their head? I am so sick of deluded idiots trying to compare the situation with Celtic's change from one type of company to another! It is not even close to the same thing. I am sick of trying to be polite to the numbskulls that keep bringing it up and waste everyone's time with their stupidity.}

12 Jun 2012 23:09:24
Question for everyone, if SPL allow us straight back in that's retention of history. if we come back in D3 then it's loss of history and start again. is that right or have I got it wrong?

Totally wrong, liquidation and Newco is loss
Of history period. Regardless of where we end up.
UEFA regulations stops the history corporate rules on Newcos stops history and tradition.
Case studies demonstrate loss of history.
Cultural and social natural law and expectation is a loss of history.
Etc.......,

If you want to keep your history pay your debts. simples

12 Jun 2012 22:47:34
what did rangers do to deserve this?

i would rather go to 3rd division and bring through young talent as well ones we have just now,and the time we take to get back to spl our eufa ban will be over and hmrc might have brought the corrupted men that have ran our club to the ground to justice

what happens if blue knights bid 6 million for assets surly hmrc and creditors would rather 6 million than the 5.5 mr green will get them for,i know people will say they didn't put it up at the start so why now but surly only rangers die hearts would want to put money in now,what has green and his investor's got to gain from a club with no future cash from european games

"What did Rangers do to deserve this" Are you serious - Try rob/scam/swindle up to £140Million from Tax payers, football clubs and small businesses!

Once you accept that this is no ones fault but Rangers' then you can move on, take your medicine and see what the future holds!

Attitudes like yours is what is getting up everyones noses! IE Total lack of remorse or acceptance of any wrongdoing!

Unbelievable!