Rangers Banter Archive October 14 2011

 

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14 Oct 2011 23:16:52
hey Timarshmallow you talk about our tax problem, we are the test case and already the taxman it setting cases against 7 premier clubs and another scottish premier club, guess who and the possble an east coast club.
If you believe rangers were the only club advised by accountants to do this then dream on. If we go down then you are next to follow {Ed014's Note - I would guess Hearts.Campbell Ogilvie?

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Celtic never went down that road mate. Are we still talking about this tax case? Lol.
Followfollow81

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14 Oct 2011 22:44:25
So the big superstar chris sutton reckons the champions are fragile eh?... I swear this guy and miko must have been seperated at birth. Again someone with celtic connections who makes points with no real substance. Has he seen rangers this season? is so he would see at least 8 first team players who have had a taste of winning the spl. That isn't even including the guys in the squad like weir and mcculloch. So on what real basis is he making this wild observation.

On the other hand, an assistsnt manager of a huge club such as ours comes out and states a fact. Lets face it, the guy was to alan shearer what donkey is to shrek, an ok sidekick and of course an animal. They were hardly mccoist and hately or cole and yorke. It was purely shearer that was the main man at blackburn, proved that when shearer continued his prolific goalscoring at newcastle whilst sutton warmed the bench at chelsea. so why would everyone in football know this average player? A factual observation from a true great. j1985

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Shall we just see what happens in the next week or 2, instead of being as bad as that celtic supporter.

dessy

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14 Oct 2011 22:28:14
Lets hope everyone going to the game the morra will be giving the legend that is gazza the warmest welcome home at half time, the guy has had his troubles but i love the guy and wish him well in his recovery

hope we can get a good result the morra, the killie take some points off them and motherwell win to move further ahead aswell

cranny cf3

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One Paul gascoigne, there's only one Paul gascoigne.

What a legend, what a man.

Had his troubles but no one can ever take away what he achieved through football.

A true genius who loved to play for the rangers.

The bench mark of a central midfielder.

Oranjeboom

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The guy fked his whole career up because of drink.... sums up scotland tbh.

desy

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Highest transfer fee Newcastle to Spurs, highest transfer fee Spurs to Lazio, highest transfer fee Lazio to Rangers

5 medals at Rangers, the FA Cup at Spurs.

PFA Young player of the year 1988, Players Player of the year 1996, Sports writer player of the year 1996

selected in the 1990 World Cup all-star team

English football hall of fame 2002, Rangers
Hall Of Fame 2006

57 Caps for England

Still winning man of the match awards in the Premiership at 35 years old for Everton

Aye, what a f**k-up you were Gazza

Mark WATP

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Injured himself trying to injure another player,alcoholic, blew his chance of playing for man u, wife beater,womaniser,drug problems,hounded out of Lazio,embarassed my club while up here,refused help,never released his potential,drinking right before games,smoking.....and that is just the stuff we can mention.did he actually care about Rangers or is he doing a sutton and trying to sell his book.amazing player but a total disgrace off the park and now he is looking for sympathy.he brought it all on himself and is trying to blame everyone else.most addicts do.I for one won't be cheering him.No decent man should.

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Better tell that to 45,000 bears tomorrow then.... Swing Low Sweet Chariot, Gazza's Here For 4 In A Row

The man will get a standing ovation from me

Mark WATP

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14 Oct 2011 22:19:33
C'mon Bears. We all know the regular Sceptic guys that post on here are Hilary Swank's. Their so called banter is pathetic, unbelievably idiotic and yawn inducing. So ignore them and concentrate on having a bit of banter with your fellow Bears about all things Rangers and leave these poor deluded saps to get on with their sad little lives.

Gerry The Ger.

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14 Oct 2011 22:18:03
Got a wee tip for you" s gers fans, get yer money on you"s getting a penalty the morra cos us saints are gonnae play you"s aff the park, and when things dont go the way you"s want it to the ref plays his joker and gives you"s a soft penalty ( like that fud jelivic"s dive last season ) easy money boys, the rumour is you"s could be doing with some cash up ibrox way,,,,C"MON YOU SAINTS,,,,

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Oh when the saints go marchin in am sorry m8 as good a fan as you maybe canny see a problem the morra fur the teds its been proved wrong in the past wi teams especially celtic but the next time ye take an auld firm scalp it will be celtics am sorry but weel take at least 3 goals the morra wi a clean sheet, sory mate a like saints but no the morra

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Be quite you silly boy!

I always wondered who was the only supporter ever inside St Mirren Park. Looks like I have my answer.

Come back to me when you win something. Oh yeah, you could win the 1st division when you get relegated. Even then you may struggle to win that.

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As long as we sink the pen al take it

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I cant believe it. I never knew that there was such a thing as a St Mirren fan

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I smell a timothy at work here

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14 Oct 2011 21:30:09
NOTICE TO ALL GERS FANS

I come on these pages every day just to see whats happening in bear land and too be honnest im getting sick of all the conspiracists on here and i dont mean those daftys timalloy miko lenny etc (you know who you are) but c'mon they get exactly what they aim to do from their posts and people bite, this is a banter page after all but all the back chat from people wanting the edd to stop their posts, whatever happened to freedom of speach, just take it on the chin and move on. i am a true gers fan season ticket holder and go to every game i can but when ye come on here and see aw the crap posted by supposed fans its like being in the playground and one of those big boys have just stole their fitbaw just take it as banter and give out as good as ye take.

i would much preffer to come on here and see some footballing debates as to where people think we could improve our game and all other matters football.

cranny cf3
(not allways a poster but allways around)

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Well said m8 but it is a banter site nothin else good slaggin is always required , a mean c'mon we beat celtic at everythin else why not banter as well

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14 Oct 2011 21:21:08
Dear bears going to leave you all in peace, last week you complained to ed014 this week bears on celtic site crying ha ha you could not make it up. Oh by the way bears I can laugh about tax case but it is you lot who should really be worrying, but enough said LOL Timalloy ( leave all you bears with this site's new anthem OH IT'S CRYING TIME TONIGHT!)
Timalloy the man they cannot shut up

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No one complained to Ed shut up and give it a rest. All the same poo pop off you tim so boring. You laugh but it will come back and bite you on the bum.....
BBEAR

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Timalloy the man that cant shut up...lol

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Man...

Is this the same BBear thats on telling everyone not to respond to him doing just what he says not to do.
You just couldn`t make it up lolol

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Nice but dimalloy, you claim to pose a serious question, then when you get answers to your question you claim to have many gers biting, it can't be classed as biting if you are asking a serious question, and said serious question can't be classed as banter.

Rtruth

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14 Oct 2011 20:51:28
Why oh why does all the Rangers fans bite? Youse are all so gullible. This is coming from a Bear. Just catch a grip and don't responded to any of the posts from them. You are making a fool of yourselfs the ones that do reply to them. Just blank them you know the ones that I mean and the ones that do reply well you guessed it the are Celtic fans making out they are a bear.
BBEAR

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BBear it's all a conspiracy it's all celtic fans answering me on a rangers site ha ha all you bears are far too intelligent to bite LOL Timalloy (all the little fishes, when the boat come in ha ha I cast my net and all the bears bite ha ha ha)

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Don't flatter yourself tim. You are full of poo poo.
BBEAR

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Mr timmyoloy sticks the bunnet above the para-pit again c'mon answer sherlock and holmes

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14 Oct 2011 20:37:27
10 points clear. 4 in a row bound :D

Unlucky. Better next time Timalloy.

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14 Oct 2011 20:35:51
Timalloy a guy who sits on his a55 all day thinks he is an expert on HMRC. What a laugh qualified people and solicitors will be dealing with the tax case but Timalloy the "genius" knows more than them. Get a grip Timalloy it really is boring me now. Can you not talk about footballing matters? The tax case will take care of itself there is nothing we can do. 10 points behind 3rd in the league. Great to be a bear.

Billyboy1

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BillyBhoy1 the only bear with a name it seems, am I boring you? Oh Dear I am so so sorry ha ha keep posting bears the more posts the more I WIN lol Timalloy

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The more the bears post the more " you win "?

Sorry but the game is called I win, so I win

child

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You can win with your posts all you want but wee will be the real winners at the end of the season cmon the gers

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14 Oct 2011 20:09:21
Also timalloy your research is flawed at the first hurdle, it was the Scotsman not the NOTW. Rewriting history again I see.

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Unamed bear (seriously you ask your parents to give you all a name) the very first written media story was in the News of the World and THEN other papers took up stories. LOL Timalloy
PS did you know that our great scottish journalists young traynor keevins etc phoned up Rangers Press Office great investigative journalism eh?

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Alloy.youve been asked about lennon claiming a good season last year.do you agree with his assesment?.do you think celtic will win the league this year?.you seem to avoid footie matters with this unhealthy obession with tax..let the suits worry about the tax..theres no point in worrying over things out of your control..come on timalloy.lets have some footie banter..you dont want to be known as boring knob among rangers fans do you?

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Dont you mean would timalloy not prefer to be seen in a better light than he is at the moment?

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The mans a living leg end

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14 Oct 2011 19:46:25
Part Two of Tax Case (banter comes later )
Mr whyte has effectively thrown down the gauntlet to HMRC and this could backfire on him. Mr whyte has stated in public that he has accumulated other assets "under the radar" (his own words) Now business people in this field have said if he has any other unresolved issues with other goverment departments this could come back to haunt him.
Now the Securitization of Season ticket sales..
It looks like Mr whyte applied for a secure loan of 4 years of ticket money to help him just now, but this loan may not have gone through as form MGO5s had to be lodged to secure this loan and form was not lodged at companies house. This why the two friendly matches have been arranged to keep Rangers afloat until january.
Now final part for now. has Mr whyte actually paid LLoyds their £14m debt or has he just signed a Promissary Note. meaning LLoyds may still own the Floating charge of Rangers assets. Look into it yourselves bears very murky. Timalloy (doing laptop loyals jobs for them INVESTIGATING)

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M8 your a person and rangers are 10 points clear..even with a 10 point deduction if it were to happen tonight rangers would still be above celtic.lol.lol

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This is just the same regurgitated pash from the rangerstaxcase blog. Even he is worried that Rangers may avoid payment. Timalloy your just a plagiarist at heart, plus a first class fud

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Do you think celtic had a good sesaon last year dodgyalloy?

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Congrats to ally..the rookie manager...manager of the month

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I give you a serious subject to discuss and all I get back is insults from "brave" unnamed bears. You guys banter is wasted on you as you don't know meaning of the word LOL Timalloy

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It seems that you don't know the meaning of banter either, you are just repeating months old tripe, let's have some genuine facts from people that are in the know, or just skip over to the rumours page, that's all you have pal is rumours

TaxDodger

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Can you give us any other banter apart from tax? for instance football?.think everyones bored with tax..your only boring everyone m8.everyones getting bored replying you..people wana talk about football..admit it boringalloy..you have lost sight of why we are all here

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Fellow bears guess whos gona go away and re invent themselves if rangers win the tax case?..i fear for timalloy a rangers tax win could push him over the edge and he may jump into the clyde..

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Ha ha Timalloy the expert fisherman 7 Bites already lol bears ha ha Timalloy

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We're not biting, just telling you what a poor deluded phud you are.

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Another classic from the legend they call the timmyalloy a secretive yet complex character mr holmes , "yes " said sherlock "but my dear old watson he does leave the obvious clues of of an insane deluded creature" to which watson protested" are you sure holmes this man is considered a legend within the those great walls at parkhead" sherlock considered watsons statement for a while then retorted " im afraid so watson my old man this 1 is a total scallywag but a total tit at the same time" at that sherlock , thinking at the same time , slowly put his suit on and headed to govan to watch the greatest football team the world has ever seen, without the bold timalloy disturbing his thoughts.

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I knew Sherlock Holmes would be a G@rs fan.His opium addiction kind of gave it away.

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Tim alloy a reject extra from the t.v. series sapphire and steel a real celtic hero lol.

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Nice retort

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14 Oct 2011 19:13:49
SIMPLY THE BUST

I have been doing some research about the Tax case and also spoke to some people who know about these matters here is what I found.
The Tax Case was first mentioned in the news of the world about a year ago, before that it was only spoken about on internet forums. When the story broke, Rangers denied it and threatened to sue all parties concerned, NO writs were issued, not even a lawyers letter.
Fast forward 12 months and how does Mr Whyte handle it, Admit the truth, the immediately try distraction tactics eg The move to EPL.
I have lots more but dont want to post too long piece at one time, but believe me bears Rangers are in soapy bubble Timalloy more to follow......

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Behave! You silly little boy!

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Yeap thought so, no banter just repetative tax pish, you don't work for rangers, the courts or the tax office, so it's all hope hope hope with you. I'm pretty disappointed with you, where's the banter?

TaxDodger

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At celtics agm today neil lennon told the supporters that celtic had a fairly sucessfull season last year.lol.lol..my my o how the expectations of celtic and there board have fallen..lol.lol

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Lets face it if celtics plague did not have the tax comfort blanket theres nothing else to try and banter the bears about..any bhouys think of anything else you could brag about apart from the tax?

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It's friday night, surely you have something better to do.....maybe get a burd??
Or a real pal??

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Do celtic supporters think winning the scots cup last term consider it a good seasons work?

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Yes fellow bears the timmyalloy is ragin again at celtic with nowhere to vent the anger welcome the man with open arms as we all know that man knows everything about nothing and attempts to speak lies with forked toungue he is truly a soldier within the celtic ranks as he attacks us at every moment with the club celtic in his heart a true complete and utter stalwart for that great institution, I for 1 appluade the one they call the timmyalloy for his total resilience and application to his cause he truly is a legend on our site, with his outrageous wit, what a total character,a true genious with patter and a class act in to the bargain, celtic have truly found a spokesman to represent that famous footballing club they call glasgow celtic fc , what do you think doctor watson , well mr holmes in my opinion I have deduced that the man is a total tit , well said dr watson, well said my good man answered sherlock

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14 Oct 2011 18:56:08
................WARNING.................
The following post might distress some bears of a nervous disposition or the cry babies of last week.
THE FAMOUS TIMALLOY is back for his now weekly comedy show on this site. Sorry Ed014 or whichever ed is covering you may get a lot of crying bears on soon. LOL Timalloy (Let the Banter Commence!)

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Why would we be crying. Were 10 points clear of the manky mob :D

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By banter, do you mean repetative tax blah blah blah nonsense?

TaxDodger

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You must live a sad wee life Bawbagilly! I come on here now and again but i bet your glued to your computer all day,this is probably the only human contact you get!

HBN

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Ha ha HBN great retort, if you read my first post I said I was only on 1 night a week now LOL timalloy anyway are you not doing exactly same thing you accuse me of typing on your laptop ha ha ha

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14 Oct 2011 17:27:18
i got slagged for saying this is one of the worst rangers team i have watched,to the person who slagged me ,one thing look at the teams we are playing against ,compaired with teams in the past.come back and name me any players in the other .than celtic players who would get in ti this poor rangers side,enough said .old bob

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Thats because it clearly isnt... you are just the standard kno nothing laptop fan who just feels the need to moan at everything...

You must be a very clever one yr old if its the worst gers team you have seen... or as above total moaning idiot.

2 managerial names, alex mcleish and paul le guen... if you think this is a worst team now you are clearly a half witt

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No Sceptic players would get into the Rangers side ol bawbag.

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The web sites give those of us a chance that want to have a say that would,nt get listened to elsewhere to have their say- in effect a window to say what they want to be heard by 1 and all inarticulate or sometimes excellant it does,nt matter,this is democracy in action which is a message in its self to the people who are trying to politicise the clubs with their crap and ruin everyones lives that enjoys a simple game of football for what it really is...a game.

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14 Oct 2011 17:00:38
that big daft lump chris sutton talks some pash-were fragile -if we are what does that make those beggars-shattered! there total gash-i think he`s trying to gee up the tims but it will backfire n leave him looking like ronald mcdonald-nugget
steve the ger

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14 Oct 2011 16:06:12
Just seen the team for tomorrow on SSN Rangers page and Mckay isn't even in the squad again. Anyone know why?

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Does it matter... we're 10 points ahead and going for 10 wins in a row.

He obviously isn't impressing in training enough to merit a place in the squad. Let Ally manage the players, he's been in football long enough to know what he's doing.

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To be fair mckay dosent get the australian player of the year for nothing.

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I just wondered if it had any thing to do with the large amount of travel hes had to do or an injury i wasn't having a go at Ally just would like to see this guy i heard he has been playing well for the aussies and impressed in closed door matches but if you don't know no worries

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Rangers pay his wages. Australia don't.

Impress Mr McCoist and he'll play, doesn't matter what he does for his country.

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Fair do's mate, wasn't having a pop at you... I think Ally will know if/when he's ready to play.

Probably is to do with the travelling, that and the stupid SPL u-21 rule means he can't get on the bench

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Sound cheers mate

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Maybe he has a knock from int duty or he has jet lag... im sure he will get his chance

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14 Oct 2011 15:38:47
interesting to read at the tattie bowl AGM they admit to the singing we've all heard for years. i wonder when the SFA, government, UEFA, FARE will become involved.......

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14 Oct 2011 14:53:19
can somebody answer this question how much is it for a ticket for rangers v Liverpool
cheers

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£20 for season ticket holders £25 for the public
Dmrangers

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Oh great five pound aff chears mate

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14 Oct 2011 14:36:47
everybody see how Celtic fans come on to this page and say the season doesn't finish until may there absolutely wrong because the season finishes in April because the season started on July this year not august so all Celtic fans are wrong so really we can say it is really November yasssssssss 4 in a row in ally we trust
campbell {Ed014's Note - The season ends in May www.scotprem.com/content/default.asp?page=s49

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Afternoon Ed014, not on these pages very often as I support whisper it, Celtic, but yes I thought season finished in May also. perhaps this campbell chappie will apologise LOL Neil T {Ed014's Note - Good afternoon Neil.

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But the season started a month early {Ed014's Note - It still depends on when fixtures get played throughout the season.

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Think it's the last game is the 6th of may a think ? (remember the spilt)

Lenny {Ed014's Note - It finishes on the weekend of 12/13 May.

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Ah now a get you ed we will still win the league anyway

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Hoi neil a made a mistake but know need to apoligise so haha plus 10 points clear
campbell {Ed014's Note - So did you...... but no need to apologise.

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Lets hope lennons season is finished by december,and he gets left in charge for another six years I would have to say I would be really worried if they got someone decent in.

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14 Oct 2011 14:16:13
Super Ally manager of the month, very well deserved! WATP

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You forgot to add davis got player of the month

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Too bad it wasnt weight watchers award of the month eh

lenny

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Did you mean as in kris commons ? I hear h,es been hired as a hit man by burger king or was it" ee aye ee aye oh.."thats how the irish spell mcdonalds.....it will be a flame grilled whopper next called " the house of commons" probably with double fries and a free pint of guiness... you could,nt make it up- hes just a growing laddie lol I blame it on the parents.

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14 Oct 2011 12:59:54
Was looking at the photos of Rangers training today on Facebook, Kane Hemmings is one of the pictures. Is he ahead of schedule, I thought he wouldn't be back before Christmas but he looks as though he is running.

GovanFR

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14 Oct 2011 12:59:18
Yeh, I would love Rhodes. But c'mon, what's the chances lol?

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14 Oct 2011 12:50:26
even better ally mcoist gets manager of the month award and Davis gets player of the month award on bbc

campbell

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14 Oct 2011 12:37:16
There is talk that Hooper and Ki both want to leave Celtic in January, that along with Commons supposedly wanting back to England, Stokes is unhappy because Lennon constantly drops him. It seems Mr Lennon may have lost the dressing room, troubled times. Plus as a bonus to all us Rangers fans they are trying to sign McFadden. It just keeps getting better.

GovanFR

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14 Oct 2011 10:28:14
Just had a look at an artical about gazzas time at ibrox actully gave me goosebumps thinking about it .

God bless him hope he manges to sort himself out at some point

gazza 72

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14 Oct 2011 09:45:17
Leyton Orient are bidding for the Olympic Stadium seems a strange move unless the rumours of London Rangers are true and added to the mix then it would add up {Ed001's Note - they are the closest team and want a cheap stadium, what is strange about it? If any other team moves in there it would destroy their already small fanbase.}

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What aload of sh#te orient have been trying to get it from day 1 forget about london rangers its BULL an never gona happen really some idiot starts a rumour an then they find idiots that will believe it


T-Bear

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14 Oct 2011 08:08:58
Miko, Where has the "knowledge" of yours that you were not to be challenged on disappeared to then? Aberdeen signed Paul Bernard for 1 milion pounds!! Was it because it wasn't Italian footbal or was it because your full of s***e?
Dmrangers

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Dmrangers thanks for that information, it seems to have make my argument with Miko put to bed. J1985.

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J1985, it was a pleasure!
Dmrangers

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14 Oct 2011 05:59:57
oh whit thank f*** that international break is over lets now think about rangers being one step closer by winning the league the morra by beating st mirren and that will be great and also lets hope kilmarnock beat Celtic a think that game could be a draw so that will be an even bigger boost to the gers

Believable0 Unbelievable0

14 Oct 2011 05:21:33
Faddys games in last 9 years, a lot of debate for and against him signing

James McFaddens record

2002/03 played 38 games
... 2003/04 played 40 games
2004/05 played 35 games
2005/06 played 47 games
2006/07 played 25 games (was out injured for 3 months with a metatarsil injury)
2007/08 played 38 games
2008/09 played 35 games
2009/10 played 43 games
2010/11 played 8 games (done cruciate ligament
out for a year)

Is this a career of an injury prone player??

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Who cares he aint signing for gers he is a has-been toddle on now timmy {Ed001's Note - it is also important to consider how many games a season he could have played when you look at these figures. EPL teams usually play 50+ games a season. So he is obviously missing a number of games a season for various reasons, plus that doesn't mention how many times he was taken off injured or just brought on as a sub while recovering from injury.}

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Aye it is so haha

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14 Oct 2011 03:23:03
everybody see how Celtic fans come on to this page and say the season doesn't finish until may there absolutely wrong because the season finishes in April because the season started on July this year not august so all Celtic fans are wrong so really we can say it is really November yasssssssss 4 in a row in ally we trust
campbell

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^^ Very clever of you Mc Einstein.

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14 Oct 2011 03:00:56
rangers striker Kyle lafferty was fined for driving using a phone it seems there just doing anything to give the guy a bad name as he said a view months ago he is trying to get on with his life and career playing with the mighty gers

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He did do it he was caught red handed no pun intended

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Well he should really be using the wheel to drive- no sympathy. Is he different cos he plays professional football?

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No not really am just saying a just thought it was something to write so a wrote that not that i want to talk s**te i just didn't know what to write if that makes sense

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14 Oct 2011 02:28:23
Ian durrant has hit back at Chris Sutton over his fragile rangers jibe Ian durrant delivered a withering dismissal of chris suttons title jibes insisting that most of the current rangers side wouldn even kno
who the Englishman is.

and the ibrox first coach also shrugged suttons accusations that the fragile champions would lack the bottle to land a fourth straight crown

chris sutton a big money hit during martin oniels years at smelley parkhead all but dismissed his old rivals chances last week saying am not thay have the players in the dressing room who beleve thay can go the distance i dont think rangers are overly strong this season

thay have had a great start but i think thay are still fragile

nine in a row winner durrant a key member of the the ally mcoist led managment currantley sitting on a 10 point lead over celtic by saying i swear to god am not trying to put chris down

but if you where to put the papers down with some of his comments in front of our players thay wouldnt know who sutton is

how do we respond we will we just have to go out and win games chris was promoting a book so good luck to him he is a celtic manand that is the way it is

you deal with that in the old firm you cannot react to things like that the boys go out to win games to win game and as long as we are doing that am sure we will keep our lead

the motavation for us to go out and win four in a row simple

we have dorian goian and boconegra i watched sasa papac against france and steven naismith against the world champions there is also nickica jelavic i would not say thay are fragile boys

we were fragile at the start of the season we were trying to bed in new players and we were a we bit over the place in our defending

i would not say we have a level of comfort but we have a lead we just need to calm down slow down here we know what we are

it is the gaffers first season and we know what the yardsticks is we have won three in a row and have numerous trophies as players but it is our goldfish now

we have to go out and do it now we have a sqwad that can compete against celtic

durrants defence of the rangers team was backed by fellow ibrox legend sandy jardine the european cup winners cup hero saying for us as a club the big thing for us is attitude attitude attitude i beleve we have better players then a lot of the teams as long as our attitude is correct then i have know worries

there attitude has been fantastic particurlly in the league over recent years thay have never let the club down

thay have been up against a Celtic team who have had more resources but they have met and came over every challenge

a big part of it is down to the right attitude a lot of people think that should come from the manager but if you are a good pro you get yourself right

OK the manager can tweak things but it comes from the individual and we have had that from our individuals over the last 3 or 4 years

and the team has some way to go before they hit top form

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Who's chris sutton?

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Most famous for the soccer am show push the sutton. i believe he was also involved in a diddy teams failure to win the uefa cup and a major part in a team losing league titles on two seperate occassions, while he was crying like a big wean at fir park and rugby park on those occassions, i believe the bears were waiting on a the arrival of a helicopter. i hope this helps you remember who he is bud. j1985

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