Rangers Banter Archive February 15 2012

 

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15 Feb 2012 23:14:16
Lets show the world how to support a team. Ibrox must rock on saturday. Rangers aren't going anywhere!

Believable3 Unbelievable5

Yes they are they playin away next week lol

Agree3 Disagree0

15 Feb 2012 23:14:06
I dont agree with alot of people sayin boycot the games, dnt gee whyte cash but we need tae get behind the team get ibrox rockin and tell whyte wat we think 50000 strong. We NEED to have ibrox packed every weekend we can to show the mankey mob at the pigary we have the best suport in the world

MF WATP!!

Believable5 Unbelievable11

17000 against dundee united says otherwise.

Agree15 Disagree0

15 Feb 2012 23:04:22
so alex salmond has joined the chorus to help rangers out of this shambles,that will probably be the kiss of death as there is wide spread outrage at this.HMRC quoted as saying they will"appeal,appeal and appeal again" if they lose the tax case.the first time salmond has came out with comments surrounding a liquidation despite many larger employers going under during his tenure.i can honestly see criminal charges coming out of this.

Believable7 Unbelievable1

This will be the same Alex Salmond and his two-bit government that said politics has no place in football when condeming Celtic supporters. he should keep his wee baw face out of it. the only thing the government should be looking at is investing whyte for major fraud


taco

Agree12 Disagree1

*investigating

Agree0 Disagree0

Salmond is a disgrace he should keep his nose out of football it has nothing to with him if i stopped payin tax would he come and defend me no

Agree3 Disagree0

15 Feb 2012 22:48:50
No accounts, no AGM - no Europe just hope there is still some form of Rangers by the end of this

Dannager4life

Believable1 Unbelievable3

15 Feb 2012 21:55:13
seen on a few newspapers today that paul murray is eying up a move to buy us out do you know if there are any other investors that have joined murray for a bigger investment ed?
AndyBear98 {Ed001's Note - I haven't heard of any as of yet. I would have thought by now he would be getting some kind of web presence set up, a twitter feed or website (or both) to get the message out and attract small investors to help back him.}

Believable1 Unbelievable0

15 Feb 2012 22:13:33
Time for Ali Russell and Gordon Smith to go as well must be on decent wages for the little work they are doing? All Bears get to Ibrox on saturday and get the place rocking, Super Ally and the players deserve it.

Believable10 Unbelievable3

15 Feb 2012 22:06:48
So much for craig whyte blaming the
old board. It was this years (his
watch) financial mess that triggered the
administration. He's bold as brass!

Believable8 Unbelievable1

15 Feb 2012 21:49:57
Got to take ur hat off to hearts and dunfemine football club.both clubs have not said a bad word about our club in these dire times ablout money owed.dunfermline have even publicly backed rangers to pull themselves out this mess,the only team slaughtering us is Dundee utd a think they seem to forget we will pull through this and be stronger and us fans who attend game should boycott tanadice we have been pumping revenue into there club for years then wen we have sum tough times they jump on bandwagon lets see how they feel without our cash every season.

Believable7 Unbelievable6

Pity yous weren't pumping revenue into your own club

Mikey Bhoy

Agree5 Disagree1

Mikey Bhoy how would we go about pumping money into Rangers? What an idiotic post. The other SPL teams aren't too critical because they need Rangers to survive and they need to be on decent terms with them.

GovanFR

Agree0 Disagree4

Failed share issues for 1

Mikey Bhoy

Agree6 Disagree1

15 Feb 2012 21:42:28
Remember bears......no excuses! I predict a treble, that would be a treble of trebles for us!!

Good times!

Miko x

Believable7 Unbelievable7

The fact we are in administration ruins any glory though.

Agree2 Disagree5

Have it, come back when you've won the league 50 times pal!

Agree2 Disagree3

Does it feck ruin any glory...we all know the treble was coming before any deduction

Mikey Bhoy

Agree4 Disagree2

But do we though Mickey?!?

No much excitement left this season for anyone really is there in all honesty. The first of a few seasons like this quite possibly. Come back in a few years and tell us you're still enjoying it.

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There may not be any excitement for you lot but we have a title party and a cup final on the horizon as well as another cup to play for...not to mention the almighty party when rangers die

plenty of excitement left pal

Mikey Bhoy

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15 Feb 2012 21:26:35
Ed can you print this please . We don't care if Celtic win league we just want our famous club back and in safe hands with mr clown out the way watp ... Kenny

Believable8 Unbelievable4

Yip mate, nothing to lose now. Turn up n support them and have a right buzz.

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15 Feb 2012 21:26:02
Celtic fan here and not on to gloat, hearing lots of rangers fans saying liquidation this...Phoenix club that....no debt etc. therefore liquidation is a good thing. Has this not been discussed by hmrc after the Leeds stuff. They have stated that any club going into liquidation in a bid to just clear debt will not be allowed to reform a new Phoenix like club that bears any resemblance to the club it has just replaced. Ie name, location of games, players etc
So just a word of caution to everyone hoping to watch Glasgow rangers 2012 at ibrox.....it might just not be that easy.
Good luck getting rid of that crook/ puppet for Murray that is Craig whyte.

Jd

Believable6 Unbelievable0

The hmrc cant do any thing to stop them.

Agree1 Disagree4

Yes they can, they can absolutely refuse a VAT registration and since i'm reasonably sure that Rangers turnover more than 73k they would be committing a crime.
They can do all sorts of things to a new co.
Nevis

Agree6 Disagree1

15 Feb 2012 21:16:06
Tim Traynor earlier on, "I'm 99% certain Rangers will go into liquidation".
Do we hate him or what!

Believable11 Unbelievable11

Why?its not his fault.artybhoy

Agree9 Disagree0

Why hate someone for telling the truth, Why noy hate your board for lying instead.

Joeshmo1888

Agree11 Disagree1

Like the rest of the hacks jumping on the band wagon , he also said though 75 million was a red herrin , must be lower.

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The guy is a pompous fool. He ripped Lafferty in a Q&A in the daily Record on Monday for no apparent reason. Not a fan.

Barry Barry

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15 Feb 2012 21:14:27
For the David Murray bashers, consider this. Murray never intended to leave us in this mess. He never intended to have a tax case looming. That it arose when it did is the main reason Murray couln't sort out it out. The global financial crisis claimed Murray as a huge scalp. Had that not been the case he'd have been able to write a cheque for this mess. Unfortunately he misjudged the tax affair, and more notably for him, misjudged the economic crisis. It doesn't make him a bad guy, and steady leadership, hard work and commitment (not to mention gazza, laudrup, countless trophies etc etc) should not be so quickly forgotten.

Believable9 Unbelievable8

Dilusional

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15 Feb 2012 20:56:48
not been asked here yet(click agree if you would put £1000 into a share issue scheme say over 5 years,60 payments of £17 p/m.)fans with percentage share of club with hopefully 2 other investors(mentors) who could eventually guide the club into being predominantly supporter owned.for example 20,000 supporters@£1000 would be £20m

Believable11 Unbelievable10

Paul Murray and the consortium should set up a website to do this, the club would the be owned by the fans and the consortium. Paul Murray, king, johnstone, DM all are rangers men, whyte is a joke. I would invest a £1000, I don't have a lot of money but I would for the sake of the club.

Jas

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Why dont the 250,000 of us that were at manchester put an average of 400 pounds each in,and agree to put in an yearly payment of 100 pounds that would raise 100 million within a few months and 25 million every year to help run the club,if the likes of paul murray could organise this,then the shareholders would vote somebody to run the club like a lot of the european clubs do

Agree5 Disagree2

I had the same idea mate, but nobody really cared IMO, tbh just look at barcelona, the most successful club in world football and guess what? the fas own them, its not impossible the only thing that needs to be done is the 50 mill needs paid off 1st before the fans can start their work because we don't have a few months we only have 28 days! (LOYAL BEAR)

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15 Feb 2012 20:53:21
Rangers do not have to lose there there history or licienses or place in spl of the go bust , there is an insolvency case that they can you to apply to trade under the same name with ibrox murray park and every other asset still intake and still in the exact shape and form they are in just now without the debt , so they would be debt free and still glasgow rangers fc I personally think that craig whyte has a plan up his sleeve and I think tht next season we will have the money to spend that he had promised

Believable2 Unbelievable6

STILL Glasgow rangers fc??

Agree1 Disagree3

He might have a plan but the way he is conducting himself on behalf of our club is wrong.

As a life long Rangers fan I believe that we should be striving to come to an agreement to pay off the debts we have. This mess is starting to leave a bad taste in the mouth.

The Pilot!

Agree4 Disagree0

Yer trippin!!

Miko x

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I agree, there is no way whyte is deliberately running our club into the ground. Going into administration was so he could use his own administrators, guys who can show a bit of lee-way. We would have went into administration anyway. I believe there is a master plan hence the reason we are getting no answers from him. He can't let everyone know his plan. We will come out of this stronger and debt free. Have trust and patience fellow bears.
Blue nose mark

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15 Feb 2012 20:50:15
Maybe its paul daniels we need, not paul murray! P.D. Could make the debt disappear and make the ten points re appear! Now thats magic!

Believable2 Unbelievable2

15 Feb 2012 20:48:10
omg guys i feellike since all this starded ive been on the net scouring for any news, its a tough time for us, everday will be somthing new.. we will survive, im sure we will... think about it we are way to big of a club.. there willbe a consortium in a few weeks.... cw will be gone

Believable2 Unbelievable4

15 Feb 2012 20:46:26
Hi Ed. Was wondering...if Rangers (or a new phoenix version god forbid) have to apply to get in the SPL, would it be at all feasible to apply instead for the English divisions? How are the rules on that? Are they set in stone? I personally wouldn't mind if we had to start in the bottom rung in England. Could wave goodbye forever to that other mob, who can only win tainted titles, and move up to the EPL in a few years. Even if this isn't possible, how do my fellow gers feel about this? Or La Liga perhaps? {Ed001's Note - there is nothing to stop them applying. Though I would very much doubt that UEFA, FIFA and the FA would accept their application.}

Believable8 Unbelievable3

Can only win tainted titles? Please explain.....

Agree2 Disagree2

Tainted titles? What were the ones you won not paying taxes? Hush mate, your talking nonsense. Glasgow Celtic, paying our taxes since 1888.

Joeshmo1888

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Iv said this, start in the blue square prem.

Agree5 Disagree1

Certainly. I refer to the current playing squad, assembled by Mowbray and Lennon, who were unable to win, even when we were unable to adequately strengthen our own team, and can only evidently triumph in circumstances such as these. Explained.

Agree6 Disagree4

Wonderfull reading
if i read it correct

play in la liga
so pmsl
why not ask Jules Verne to get you in a league he has 20.000 of them under sea

LA Liga
LMFAO

Lubo25

Agree7 Disagree3

Not paying taxes, or more specifically misunderstanding benefit trusts if HMRC are indeed proved correct, doesn't make any of our titles tainted by any means. Financially imprudent yes, but tainted no. We hardly spent the money bribing refs, fitting the lads with laser guided boots, or installing T1000's in defensive midfield. I stand by my comments 110%. In case you're not familiar with percentages, that's 10% more than the allotted range. That's how much I stand by them! WATP

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I still don't get how anyone of our titles are tainted?

Rangers have cheated the British public out of tens of millions of pounds to win titles so yes I can see why some of theirs are tainted but every single trophy Celtic have ever won has been won fair and square just like the three we will be winning over the next couple of months.

I realise you are a sorry, desperate bunch who are clutching at straws to take any sort of comfort from anything just now but to claim any titles Celtic have won are tainted is just laughable.

Morons like yourself are exactly the reason why we take so much pleasure out of this and why no1 in Scottish football other than Terry Butcher and John Yorkston give a sh!t wether you go under or not

Mikey Bhoy

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So what your saying is our titles are tainted because we have more money than you? So the whole 9 in a row is a tainted decade for yourselves then?

Joeshmo1888

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Mikey Bhoy - Kelly/White dynasty and 'estimated' attendances. Your board were cheating.
Iam Legend.

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That may well be true, however they were lining their own pockets not investing in the team

Agree1 Disagree0

They were dodging the taxman.
Iam Legend

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15 Feb 2012 20:45:34
epetitions.direct.gov.uk/petitions/29635

ambitious i know but it is worth a try, spread it around

Believable1 Unbelievable4

Its the government who are telling hmrc to clamp down on tax evaders...football clubs are the governments top targets.

Agree0 Disagree0

15 Feb 2012 20:44:45
just been on e bay saw a war chest ,there was a promise that it contained £15m. gonnae bid for it cause people wouldn't tell lies.

Believable4 Unbelievable0

It could be the best pound u ever spend....unless you have to pay tax on it.

Agree0 Disagree0

15 Feb 2012 20:21:46
It disgusts me the amount of Rangers fans desperate to pay there creditors 6p in the pound! Utterly shameless and then yous are looking for sympathy! Heres one for you... Ask your players to play for 6p in the pound out there wages and i bet they would be off like a shot!

Believable7 Unbelievable5

They're assets pal, they'll be sold in a shot!

Miko x

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15 Feb 2012 20:14:27
is rangers live streaming going to be broadcasting the game on saturday ?

Believable0 Unbelievable2

No.they havnt paid the leccy

Agree4 Disagree0

15 Feb 2012 20:04:42
can i ask 2 questions why ? why would anyone in their right mind put money into a club were u have no idea were all the money is stashed at least at celtic we knew were the money was in the biscuit tin , but dont you wish now that yous knew were your money was. 2nd nmany rangers fans say when celtic win league it is tarnished because of your plight so question if yous loose the big tax case are the titles you won during the ebt years tarnished after all yous will have been found to have cheated

Believable5 Unbelievable2

Not the same but a valid point that you're intitled to buddy. But naw us fans clever enough to see what's going to happen are not at all worried, learn to spell you "looser" haha.. WATP

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Cheats!!

Miko x

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At the time it was thought to be a loophole in the tax system there was no intent to cheat,the likes of John Greig who was at the club right through these years would if he had known at the time it was against the rules would have spoke up,Rangers were his life and theres no way he would have let it continue to where we are now,we are honourable people not crooks

Agree1 Disagree3

That's for the courts to decide, your club will be exposed as tax evaders when they lose the tax case!

Miko x

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15 Feb 2012 20:04:00
Say this Paul murray manages to put together a consortium of rich rangers fans, or whatever it is he's doing. Can the administrators force Whyte to sell the club to them?

Robin87 {Ed001's Note - the administrators have control, they decide on a sale now.}

Believable0 Unbelievable0

It seems that the taxman is intent on not only chasing Whyte but looking for a conviction against him as he has shafted them too many times.

Rangers are not able to strike any sort of deal as the taxman now has a personal vandetta against Whyte.

To be honest if he has pocketed all the monies that have been coming in and has been blatantly not paying the bills then surely a police investigation must be sought to get to the bottom of this.

I cannot believe that we are in a worse state 9 months on with all the cost cutting and sales that have been going on.

No money, no statements, no accounts, this guy needs to be held accountable and he needs to explain what he has been doing because as far as I can see the figures don't add up!

The Pilot!

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Yea,but it looks like they are whyte puppets

Agree1 Disagree0

15 Feb 2012 19:59:58
Lots of outlandish wild romours about claiming to have reliable sources despite the fact the posters can't spell or strong a coherent scentence together! Mcgregor released? Get a grip! The administrators have been in for less then 24 hours, these people are educated professionals, they will not make wild knee jerk reactions! But rather will take a considered financially viable approach to all aspects of the club. Furthermore let's stop wasting effort on who did what when, SDM is at fault, though may not have had the most sound advice, CW has taken us down this route and it is now largely out of his hands, yes I believe a large part of the transfer window posturing was pure appeasement, that said I get the impression he didn't know exactly what he was getting himself into until he got the keys to the front door. AJ and PM flinging accusations is Haiphong as they were on watch when we saw the iceberg on the horizon however neither of them were the skipper and couldn't change course on their own, if they were however to come in with a salvage operation then who better than the men who have been up close and seen the whites of the enemy's eyes to lead us out of the mire and back into the breach? Fellow bears, let's think about this logically and look forward, stand tall and shoulder to shoulder with each other in the true traditions of our club and not snipe and bicker between ourselves. Let's have a full house this weekend, a demonstration for the press and cameras if the spirit enduring in us all, a show of support to Alistair Murdoch Mccoist and his players something which they need! Forget whyte and administration for 90 minutes and remember that WE ARE THE PEOPLE !

Yours in faith Andy

Believable6 Unbelievable3

"STRONG a sentence together" ha you are a nappy mate ! PaulRFC

Agree3 Disagree0

That'll be, "string a coherent sentence together" ???

Lol, what a donk!

Miko x

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The administrators are linked tO whyte, the owners were with whyte the day he swaggered up edminston drive! I would like to see that on Saturday! Rat! That is a bit dodgy knowing whyte!

J

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"ROMOURS" aswell ha you are a cracker man... But I do agree because when I hear a ROMOUR I can barely STRONG a sentence together either ! PaulRFC

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15 Feb 2012 19:52:44
Im sure all Rangers fans would like to than Dunfermline for their kinds words and support,it takes class to support a club,who have maybe put a bit of a strain on their budget,Rangers fans are most grateful,once again many thanks,it wont be forgotten.Your Chairman is a credit to Scottish Football

Believable7 Unbelievable4

Totally agree, shame others are just an embarrassment by their bias and anti- Rangers comments.

Agree2 Disagree2

Here, here!

Agree2 Disagree1

I think he realises that this will have a detrimental financial effect on the SPL (And ultimately other teams in the SPL), especially with the Sky Tv money. The Sky Tv dosh kicks in at the start of next season, and Sky will most likely pull the plug if they're are no old firm games.

Agree4 Disagree2

Dunfermilne fans will be taking a different view i suspect. what a suck up!

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Don`t hear you lot saying your mantra anymore "nobody likes us and we don`t care".
Arrogance coming back to bite you in the arse lol.....
Lets hope the rest of Scottish football remembers this, and of course your ridiculous we are the people chants!
care to enlighten us.....

Agree3 Disagree3

15 Feb 2012 19:46:17
Let's get ibrox bouncing on saturday! There's 4 teddys heading down from the north east of scotland'! get the good times rolling!!!!

Believable4 Unbelievable6

Lol your clubs bust your going to
Lose the league and you say let the good times roll.... Deluded!

Agree4 Disagree0

15 Feb 2012 19:37:43
Why did Murray not float Rangers on the stock market as a public entity? Why did he always say that it was in the best interests to keep the club ruled by one majority owner.

We got that one owner and he has fleeced the club completely dry. I for one don't believe Whyte had the finances to run the club never mind fund it.

24 million (season tickets mortgaged) + 6 million (Jellyfish sale) + 9 million (Unpaid tax) = 39 Million.

Paid off Lloyds 18 million, thats an easy 21 million profit to Mr Whyte.

Unfortunately these past custodians of Rangers have never really had the best interest in the club. It is time to ensure that this never happens again, as not one person is bigger than the Glasgow Rangers.

Believable4 Unbelievable1

Again let me remind you muppets doing your sums... Factor in tax!! Your as bad ad Craig Whyte yous all add this that and the other with no costings for VAT PAYE wages or tax!!

Agree2 Disagree0

There was also the fans 15m for this seasons books! Over 50m and we can't pay our bills?! This guy has robbed us blind !

Agree2 Disagree0

Again with the GLASGOW rangers! who?

Agree3 Disagree0

He didn't gloat us on the stock market because we are not a big profit making business.

Agree1 Disagree0

15 Feb 2012 19:37:11
People need to get a grip of the facts. 6p in the pound nonsense. Paul Murray the blue knight... Aye right. He waa there with the old guard that got us in this mess. Hes got a fn cheek. Dundee only had to pay the taxman 6p in the pound because they were only something like 15-20% of the total debt so wasnt a major creditor but this time its different. The administrators have to make an offer to the creditors which they all find acceptable and if they dont accept it then its liquidation. Whyte doesnt have a "masterplan", hes a crook. He took tax off peoples wages and never paid it to the government. And as for David Murray. Thought hed sell to someone with the clubs best interests at heart? He only sold for the princely sum of £1 because the banks made him sell.

We are still the people!!

Believable2 Unbelievable3

Murray only sold to whyte because he agreed to take liability for the tax case

Agree1 Disagree0

15 Feb 2012 19:36:44
Ed,can you please filter some of the garbage posted on here from the deluded hoops,give the desperados the title,we will be back,but surely they should be more concerned with the next bright house payment,getting bored with them.if they were funny,it would be a first.always the people,Rangers.

Believable3 Unbelievable5

You should have filtered some cash to the tax man.always be a.DISGRACE

Agree2 Disagree0

15 Feb 2012 19:35:57
All the scenarios being mentioned seem to involve trying to avoid paying debts to other clubs, other companies big and small with whom rangers do business and of course hmrc. Is this approach not absolutely shameful? If successful would this not dishonour your club? What about this idea? Establish wot the total debt is. Restructure the debt (if it is possible). Then by taking out wot would effectively be a very large mortgage, perhaps 20 million, perhaps 130 million then all debts would be paid. Of course repaying this structured debt would be painful. Rangers would have to cut their cloth. The repayment period might be 5 years. It might be 20 years. Inevitably success on the park would have to be sacrificed. But the club would still be rangers. And the club could call itself honourable. Wot u think? Jhimbhoy.

Believable6 Unbelievable2

Sounds like you dhims are worried rangers end up debt free and stronger, yeah 20 years of runners up and skint. Get real, enjoy your runny jelly and melted ice cream and do try and get the coefficient up for us.

Agree1 Disagree4

Well at least u have answered my question. U don't give a monkey's about the people ur club will shaft to get out of the mess ur in. Not too fussed about being honourable. Happy enuff to be the shame. At least u emit hypocritical about it. Jhimbhoy

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15 Feb 2012 19:35:34
Celtic fan. ..come in peace...can I wish you all the best ..that is to your many good fans...first off all I think you should get behind whyte this guy is no mug and your previous owner put him in charge of your club to deal with this matter ...who better to deal with hmrc than him the guy has no morals or shame but that's what you need ...I think 10point deduction is not bad news if he can get the debt reduced to say 6p in the pound...mark my words. Whyte name mite be mud at moment but rangers fans will be saluting him as a saviour of your club...he will screw the hmrc and work the system...there will be many chances for us to kick your butts in forth coming seasons so don't worry...good luck for the future may you come 2nd in everything but 1st in your battle with hmrc....gujo ....Celtic fan

Believable4 Unbelievable1

That's one way to look at it. The other way is that rangers have took in 50m since he took over, ticketus 24m, season tickets for this season 14m, 11m whyte was supposed to invest in working capital, Jela 5m, Bougy 2.8m. 1m Charlie Adam, there was also a final payment from CL games from uefa. Where has this money gone? Why can't we pay our bills? This guy whyte is screwing rangers for everything he can

J

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Thanks mate can you have a word with your fellow bhoy in the post above?
We haven't worried about any butt kicking for the last three seasons.
Cheers.
Iam legend

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15 Feb 2012 19:30:16
does anyone know how much paul murray is worth ??

ryanrfc

Believable0 Unbelievable0

I went to school wi a Paul Murray an the answers no much he's a tappinng b&st&rd that owes me a fiver. PaulRFC

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Alot more than Mr Tight

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No.....but seems like an idiot to me with probably not alot of finacial backing, if he does have it why did he and others from the previous board/ragime with their aledged love for the club not come forward with a package long before CW, just trying to stir the s#*t if you ask me!

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15 Feb 2012 19:28:48
Transpires that Dundee Utd and Dunfermline have been shafted by Whyte. Nae flies on Peter Lawell, he and Desmond saw this coming years ago and devised a strategy which is now coming to fruition. Think Lawell's also been vindicated in requesting the ticket money up front from that bumbling crook!

Miko x

Believable5 Unbelievable4

Eh,no the ticket money was paid up front,because of supposed damage to seats at the lego dome,so get you facts right.Lawwell,is suddenly a great visionary,fact is,you had too many crap players in your squad,and could not win a raffle.

Agree2 Disagree4

Lol, you think Lawell took this unprecedented request due to a couple of busted seats? Haha, did you surmise this theory?

I surmise you have a rocket coz you're a moonman! lol

Miko x

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Winning a league though eh

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Miko, Rangers have demanded up front payment from Celtic for the game in March.

Agree0 Disagree0

Miko - if Peter liewell and Dermott Demond saw this coming why has D Demond pumped £20m into CFC and Peter Liewell authorised your £4.4m transfers in the first transfer window? It certainly wasn't for euro 'cos you were p*sh in that and got thro by the back door.
Iam Legend

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15 Feb 2012 19:18:27
HMRC should be hunting whyte relating to the PAYE and NI.

They should also hunt Murray and the guys who set up who set up the EBTs.

These guys are hiding shady deals behind their businesses - especially whyte - his track record is a red flag already.

Unfortunatly this isnt the way it works - These crooks should be brought to task


Ryanrfc

Believable1 Unbelievable0

Ethis kind of EBT was devised by that clown GORDON BROWN(he supports Raith so knows f all about football) to appease the big foreign banks ie. Citicorps and Rse swiss but foreign trust funds were first introduced in 1901. Lord Vesty that crooked bsd that owened the Dewhurst and Alec Munro butchers chain with 1200 shops only paid about £3o per year tax when all us wee butchers had to pay thousands sausage bear

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15 Feb 2012 19:03:43
Ed just been watching sky sports administrators are say the have made good progress in 24 hours hope to have is out of admi very soon what does that mean we are just in it cheers ... Kenny {Ed001's Note - impossible to say without getting to look at the accounts myself. I would assume it means that they believe the situation is retrievable and that they don't expect it to end up with liquidation.}

Believable1 Unbelievable1

Nonsense Ed.... Even if they come out of admin this time As soon as the big tax bill hits there straight back in admin! Again there trying to put a positive spin on a dire situation to try and get the fans to come and spend there cash... A fool and his money are easy parted! {Ed001's Note - I think you are talking nonsense, no one suggested that it would refer to them coming out of admin before the tax bill hit.}

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15 Feb 2012 18:58:04
i know every ones not keen on any of the old board coming back to help but surely the fact that they are interested in helping us in our time of need to do anything just to get us out of this mess must speak volumes for the ones concerned for these people seem to be hurting just as you and i as we watch this mess unfold in the press and the t.v as these people seem to care for the club not just as in place they once worked but as supporters as we all know once a ranger always a ranger this isn't just a football club this is a institution it's in our blood hearts and now minds everyday somebody must have some plan/idea to take to the administrators even just to get us to the end of the season crook whyte isn't the man for someone not to pay any tax earnings since he took over says his plan was always to take money and run hope he chokes on the money that's hurting so many of us fans just now stay strong rangers and keep believing fellow bears thats all we have now

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I will be dishing out some whyte abuse this Saturday for sure. I will be going early as there will be fans at the main door before the game.

J

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15 Feb 2012 18:55:24
I heard that the administrators are trying to get a concert at Ibrokes organised to raise money for the club.

I am hearing Busted will be the headline act singing "We are simply broke, more broke than all the rest'

Believable2 Unbelievable4

Although you are a complete idiot... this is a good idea, why not have concerts at ibrox ?

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We used to, david murray stopped it, remember bon jovi used to play in ibrox the night before playin in the SECC and by the sound of it it generated good money because every football fan in scotland england and ulste celfic fans etc etc were even there. but now you think of it a think ally russell is goin along those lines. (LOYAL BEAR)

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15 Feb 2012 18:54:07
Ed can you clear a few things up to the best of your knowledge.can the administrators sell ibrox, murray park,and the Albion car park to pay of the debts.or does Craig white have any say on this.if we cant sell these assets and we go into liquidation do these assets get sold to the highest bidder or does Craig white have any right to these assets.does hmrc have any say in these assets. {Ed001's Note - if they are assets owned by the club the administrators can sell them.}

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15 Feb 2012 18:47:19
I take it Ali Russell and Gordon Smith must be picking up decent pay packets every week,get rid of them now, if not got a ticket for saturday yet let's get one and get Ibrox rocking, show our support to Ally and all the players and show them we are still the greatest club in the world. WATP

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Great clubs dont shaft smaller teams and go into administration.you are now a tawdry,shabby shadow of what you were.

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15 Feb 2012 18:45:09
Have you recently taken out a loan ? or signed a credit card agreement ? or perhaps bought a Glasgow based football club ? You've probably been mis-sold, PPI, (PURE PISH INLAND REVENUE ADVICE) don't worry, just phone;- 0800 1888 1967 and we'll call you right back and laugh like f**k at yeeeez ! Hail - Hail

Miko x

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Anither Dhim with too much time on his hands? You spend the majority of your time on this site. Just remember bottle crashers, proven!! League by default, are you real Champions of Scotland? Cant wait for your infamous European campaign next season at least that will give us something to smile about!!

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League by default my @rse, we were already in pole position for the league before your crooked club got ten points deducted. Oh and while we're at it....when Celtic win the treble it'l be down to Celtic being the best team in the land n nothing else, remember Sally got yous knocked out all cup competitions fair and square.

Mikey Bhoy

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Least we,ll have one.artybhoy

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Lol, league by default? Are you serious?

Do you live in a glass house? lol

Cheer up darlin!

Miko x

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You'll be watchin The Bill......again!

Miko x

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Good.might be a while before your in europe again

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15 Feb 2012 18:40:49
Rangers will come out of this okay, look at Dundee FC, they went in to admin and came out only having to pay creditors and hmrc 6p in the pound

Believable0 Unbelievable3

Completely different.

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So you happy that honest hard working companies who pay there tax get basically f all i hope someone you know is owed money from ibrox see how you feel

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15 Feb 2012 18:38:59
if the worst does happen happen n our
beloved Rangers go into liquidation,
what happens then?? is it th same as
leeds and an insolvent co. will create
a "new" Rangers and who are the
MAJOR BODIES that decide our fate?

WATP.... lets show the world on
saturday where the real rangers lie.
IBROX roar like neva b4. cmon super
ally n th lads

Northern Bear

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Aye but you might have to pay to get in.

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15 Feb 2012 18:29:23
Hi guys you probably won't post this as you only seem to post a select few people but here goes anyway. Paul Murray wants people to come forward and join the blue knights but hasn't told anyone how to contact!! But an idea of fans signing up to a sight and donating money towards a takeover and the cash donated being converted to shares when it goes through would be fantastic, how many fans do we really have, if most fans signed up at £20 a head it would pay off the tax case if we were to lose it and have cash to spare, it's a no brainer and means no single person could ever own the club again. I for one would happily put £20 or so into it, it's only the price of a few pints and we would be part of this great clubs future.

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Good idea mate ..kenny

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Be interesting to see how much is raised given your last shambolic issue with murray

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15 Feb 2012 18:21:50
Why have Rangers not asked the fans to help out most real fans would gladly had over a weeks wage to help our club

Believable7 Unbelievable2

Lol wake up fur fox sake a weeks wage feed the children or stop an over paid bunch of non producers think mcgregor on 25 grand a week is giving a weeks wage

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15 Feb 2012 18:18:07
paul mcbride on ssn there,wat a reliable source he was! couldnt even say HMRC correct!

Remember paul its HMRC not HRMC!!
Guess wat team he supports eh?

THE REAL JINKY

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15 Feb 2012 18:15:51
One matter confuses me.

HMRC state that no PAYE or VAT has been
paid since Whyte took control hem so long tonearly
a year ago.

Why has it taken them so long to
realise this. You would have thought
that this would have been apparent
to them in the first month that he was
in control.

Believable3 Unbelievable1

They haven't just all of a sudden realised that, ehh Rangers huv'nae been payin us. They have been in dialog with Rangers in order to give them every chance to pay the bill, without success.
Had Whyte not put Rangers in to administration first, in order to try and cover his deeds. You can bet HMRC would have put us in to administration. Either way Rangers would have been in administration on Tuesday.

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Because most companies pay it quarterly, HMRC then give you 60 days grace if the second quarter payments are missed, so in effect 8 months before they will decide to act


taco

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Company tax is different to the way you or i pay

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You try and not pay your tax next month and see where that gets you.
g
HMRC will not enter dialogue with you over a period of 9 months, they will want paying yesterday.

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15 Feb 2012 18:01:33
Mr Whyte is also involved in a divorce action , is he not ? In this country, his spouse would be entitled to 50% of assets accrued during the marriage meaning she could have 42.5% of Rangers at her disposal. Or not? Anybody know ?

Paddy Malarkey

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She is the only one he,s not shafting garlar07

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Hope you dont hurt yourself when you fall off that big f@@@ing high horse your on

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15 Feb 2012 18:01:05
First off this is not coming from someone in Scotland but from across the world (who is Scottish and Irish) and it is not meant to cause problems or attack you because Im sure its not just your club as it is a problem for the whole of Scotland. A little advice and mostly hope for change for you rangers fans, although it might not be all of you but a majority of you as for this is what your club is known for around the world (and what has to be the biggest problem with your club and not the financial problems).

With your club changing I can only hope that the fans change as well for there is no place for bigotry and sectarianism in football and amongst the people in Scotland, times have changed and so has the world so please respect peoples beliefs, you dont have to agree with them but just understand not everyone is alike and people have the right for their own opinion and mindset. However more importantly is to STOP! with the chants, banners, fights and attacks of players from other clubs and death threats just because they dont have the same belief or they are from somewhere else. For this does not put Scotland in a good light, as well this could be karma coming back and hitting your club as well as your former owners causing the problems you face.

I would like your club to stay because the old firm is well known and is always exciting to watch as well it is regarded as one of the best old firm matches in the world (maybe top 3) and I have always wanted to see one live but I am now worried that may not happen due to the problems your club is in. However with all the hate that comes from your club I do wish this to stop and there for would welcome it to fold just for the hope that it might end or have on impact on the bigotry and sectarianism problem. So with your club changing once again I hope and implore you to change and put an end to all the hate, as their have been new laws put in place to help get ride of the problem, however the only way it would end is for the people to change it from within themselves so please realise this and help put an end to it once and for all so that not only your club can gain respect but also Scotland as a whole to show the world that it has changed, for this has been going on for too long and indeed holding the people and Scotland back.

I love Scotland and wish the people from different beliefs and different clubs to live peacefully and come together for change and have a pint together where it would not end in a fight and where people could wear their clubs colors and not have to worry about being attacked or worse. But once again it starts from within the people where change can happen and if one can change then it could have a ripple effect and have others change.

Believable7 Unbelievable7

Theres muppets on both sides, as any social issue tends to have. They are not big and definately not clever. CheltBlue

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The Old Firm is regarded as one of the top 3 Old Firm matches in the world? What are the other 2 then? Your entire essay lost credibility there. And as for being Scottish/Irish, can I guess ur in the States? Where everyone and their dog have Scottish and Irish routes

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Is this guy for real? "hate that comes out of OUR club" ? See from across the world you should look at all football an realise we ain't even drop on the ocean

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Is it only Rangers fans that do this ya d1ck.

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Ed, Why did you post this drivel?
This is obviosly someone at the wind up or just someone who is incredibly ignorant and stupid.
I for one am offended by this slander and will not be tarred by this brush, how fkin dare you preach to me or the majority of Rangers fans.
So, you have either taken the wind up too far or you have seriously misjudged the situation, yes we have problems in this country, but your ill informed view is totally unjustified and wrong.
For your information we live in a multi cultural society and in the grand scale, reasonably peacefull, so pess off back to your utopia and live in peace.
Ed, I'm all for banter but this is too far.
BR

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How the hell can you be Scottish and Irish bit of an identity crisis going on there maybe or maybe you have a split personality

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BLa Bla Bla and your beloved Celtic are squeaky clean when it comes to bigotry and singing sectarian chants i take it you live in New York

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It was not a wind up but an opinion and hope, I did not mean to offend you and do apologize for it. If on the grand scale that it is true then great! We just need to get it out COMPLETELY. If you look back I say it is not only rangers that do this but other clubs as well as it is a problem in your society (every society has major problems and this is yours) and that it is not an attack on yous. I do know there are many other problems around the world in other leagues(the suarez thing is just a disgrace too) but my heart is with Scotland and I want this problem out! And how ignorant are you, people cannot have Scottish and Irish heritage or Scottish and Italian or Scottish and English routes, for everyone can only be one? You may not like your routes but I am proud of mine (that is why I want the problem out!) or is it that I am not a true Scot because I am not from there? You just illustrated my point and the problem! I am not from the states for I come from the place that is multi cultural too the max, where Celtic and rangers fans can have banters at one another and not end up in a fight.

I know you guys like to put your blinders on but just listen to the reports from around the world and what players, teams and fans say about your support and how there have been lots of problems in the past. People don’t just make it up, look at what happened last year with death threats and bullets sent to Lennon (as well as Celtic players, and why? just because they are with Celtic?), now why is it that a football manager has to deal with this for doing a job? (it is a disgrace, as well as that hearts fan). I am a Celtic fan thru and thru and I am not saying we don’t have our problems as well (the whole F uefa is not right but our problems come from a minority of people who are not Celtic fans) but we are known for our great support world wide. Again this is not to have a go at your club or to offend anyone, but surly you must admit to some of the problems caused by a lot of your supporters around the world, and again I am not talking about all the fans.
If you don’t agree that the old firm is one of the best and most popular in the world then where is it placed then? For players, managers(from every league) try to attend the game or even at the very least try and watch it.

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15 Feb 2012 17:30:51
Hi Ed, can you tell me if the
Administrator is obliged to produce a
list of creditors and an amount owed
after his examination of RFC finances
etc which is then made public?
Presumably share holders will
receive information. Thanks.
Iam Legend {Ed001's Note - I am not sure if they are obliged to do so, but it is likely that it will be produced.}

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Yea they have to put every down on paper. It's to show any interested party wanting to buy them.

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15 Feb 2012 17:42:03
Rangers fans what gives yous the devine rite too even contemplate scots football will die without rfc??..yous blame,press,media,banks,journalists etc,when its YOUR CLUBS CHEATING,UNDERHAND DEALINGS,that have put yous in this mess!!.scottish football will go gon,with or without RFC,your club is now being branded as a TOXIC CLUB!!quite an appropriate name ,oh & will cough up to strathclyde police,so sat game can go ahead,yet dundee united,hearts,dumfermline will be screwed out money!!

Believable5 Unbelievable4

Another nameless keyboard warrior!

And how do you know Hearts, Dunfermline And Dundee Utd wont be paid? maybe just maybe something can be arranged. Thats why administrators are there, hopefully to salvage what they can and appease creditors!

And for the record, the tv deal will be scrapped, attendances will plummet and instead of getting 4 bumper away support games from the old firm you will get 2. Interest will be lost. Let me see, a player is asked to choose between playing for Celtic against other SPL dross or a bottom epl team going to old trafford, anfield, stamford bridge. Even league 2 would wipe the floor with our teams.

Face it Rangers die, Scottish football is in big big trouble. This isn't arrogance or scaremongering its a fact!

Maybe some of the gloating on here is actually a way of hiding the fact that most Scottish football fans are now bricking it that our national game is almost dead and there own team could be next to go.

Blue Bear

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Stop pontificating,the law will decide our fate,not you,you bitter twisted anorak,now do one.

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The same Devine right that you mhanks claim that you have been cheated out of everything since 1888 ya bunnet

Canyousaybanana!!

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Quite simply by using our brains.

If Rangers go in the toilet Scottish football will go in the toilet- plain as the nose on your ugly mug mate. It's so obvious I don't know why I even bothered typing this.

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Its nice to see the education system hasn't been wasted on you , I despair.

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Go back to school and learn how to spell! As for the main tax case – in this country you are innocent until proven guilty!

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I think the fact you think 'yous' is a word says a lot about you. Incoherent nonsense.

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To the guy who wrote this have a look at this link

www.bbc.co.uk/sport/0/football/17047957

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Probaly meant ewe,s as in sheep following the great whyte,s every word follow follow. garlar07

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15 Feb 2012 17:40:38
Craig Whyte operates in the in the grubby side of business, so there are plenty of grim stories to be unearthed about him, but Ive got to say I admire him for having the balls to step up and take the flack, Ive not seen anyone with a spare 75 mil looking to help out. Ive said all along he has a master plan and it probably involves selling a clean company at the end of this grubby little administration affair. However if the alternative is for him to take us through this and he has some money of his own to plough in and the other end, Ill support that too. I genuinely dont think he is asset stripping for his own gain, he might make a few quid at the end of this by selling a going concern, but hes not looking to leave a shell behind.

None of us really know what the plan is, it all just guess work. What I do know is the fans or players didnt cheat those titles they won them fair and square, only a few people will ever know whether they were evading tax or trying to be smart to avoid it. Either way we are all going to have to take our medicine and dig in for the future. Scottish football will be worse off for this and that includes Celtic, no matter what anybody thinks it will make the league less competitive, therefore less attractive and so less profitable = downsizing for all.

YM

Believable1 Unbelievable2

We Rangers fans dont need a moral lecture,thank you,we require financial aid,strong leadership,honesty,transparency,fans support,and most important,patience ,we will turn our great club around,and our worldwide fanbase will help,we know our shortcomings,and thats where our energies should be focused.

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HE MUST HAVE BALLS LIKE SPACE HOPPERS.

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You have no worldwide fanbase its a myth.hugh adam told you this years ago

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15 Feb 2012 17:32:56
Rangers fans had been in denial for months that the club was facing administration.

What Rangers fans now need to accept, is that the club is heading for liquidation.

The current situation is that Rangers will be unable to enter into a CVA and get agreement from creditors for a pence in the pound agreement, due to the reluctance of the controlling creditor, HMRC, blocking such an agreement. No investor will pump money into Rangers simply to pay of debt, with Whyte having a floating charge over the club. The only outcome here is liquidation.

Even if Rangers were to come out of administration, if they then lose the Big Tax Case (and this is looking increasingly likely), HMRC would put Rangers straight into administration again, this time with a debt of between £50m - £75m. This would certainly mean liquidation.

Rangers fans are going to have to accept that the club is going to cease to exist.

What will happen however, is a new debt free club will be formed very quickly, with Whyte either retaining Ibrox or selling it on to the new club. Investment from several wealthy investors is likely with additional investment from a share issue to supporters.

It would be beneficial if the high net worth investors have nothing to do with the previous board and that Paul Murray and his so called Blue Knights are not encouraged. Any links to the old board will not be beneficial to the future of a new club.

The club will be voted a position in the SPL, but are likely to have a 10 - 15 point deduction for the first three seasons as well as no European football for three seasons.

The harsh reality is that Rangers are soon to be no more and will be replaced by a new club with no history.

Believable5 Unbelievable0

15 Feb 2012 17:24:55
What a fantastic statement from Dunfermline FC (source STV). This shows the class of the DAFC in that they can see how important Gers are in the bigger picture. Thank you John Yorkson and co. for the compassion...we wont forget it in this our hour of need. Take note Peter Lawwell over at CFC.... The majority of us Rangers fans are just ordinary working guys who are devastated at our clubs plight so we thank DAFC for their kind words!

The statement read: “All of the Board of DAFC would like to express their concern and shock that a giant football club such as Rangers FC has gone into administration.

“The impact of this will be felt throughout Scotland, the UK and Europe and the Board and club would wish to convey their support to Rangers FC and hope that the club can find a way through this terrible time.

“However, the direct impact to DAFC is not insignificant: Rangers FC are due DAFC in the region of £80,000 of gate receipts from Saturday's fixture which is obviously of extreme concern.

“This payment is no longer expected to be received by next Tuesday which would have been due to the club.

“This is a significant amount of money for a club such as DAFC to lose especially after losing £50,000 due to our game against Kilmarnock being postponed and will create some challenges for us over the coming months, these challenges are not insurmountable.”

Believable2 Unbelievable3

Ya fud. This is one of these read between the lines statements. He's not expressing sympathy and support for Rangers, he's saying the dodgy b@stards ae not going to pay us.

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Fair play. PaulRFC

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Ed: How do these people get a post thru by calling people fuds?

No class but then what do you expect from CFC fans?

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15 Feb 2012 17:12:00
Why would whyte even dream of buying rangers if he knew the tax bill could be as high as 75 million because surely his legal team would have picked this up when lookin things over!! He is either a mental case or he has some sort of grand plan somewhere in his head and thinks this is the best way forward for our beloved team.

JBBEAR

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No, the best way forward for Craig Whyte.

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15 Feb 2012 17:10:25
Serious question here how many people on here think we could get the fans to pull together to buy the club?? Do u think u get a million fans too all chip in alot i know but if u could pay £125 for the first year then £3 a month trust fund thing for runnin of the club?? Think i mite just be dreamin but i would be destroyed if our club died!!

Believable2 Unbelievable1

You know what you are right ......... you're dreaming.

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It's a good idea and it would work, but ppl just keep saying it instead if doing it. Surely to fk ther must be a gers fan on this page who is in financial know and could help us set something up?
Funny... Lot of fans claimed to be business owners etc..
A few weeks ago on here when they wanted to give their opinion and tell us how they knew how all this worked, but ther isn't one to be heard now that we need them?
Wheres the big know it alls now?

Dtp89

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A million fans! are you mad.

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15 Feb 2012 17:03:24
Fellow Bears...I believe a complaint should be lodged to - and request for an investigation by - the Serious Fraud Office (SFO). There are too many discrepancies on cash which allegedly has been made to the RFC entity we know and support - YET - read, very carefully every statement by Craig Whyte concerning money i.e. Ticketus, Lloyds TSB pay-off...he always states the same...."the monies have been secured by one of my companies". Careful language but such that I believe hides a lot of the truth. Have monies been lodges in those same CE companies which have provided the security? If so, why? We can speculate until we are blue in the face. Administrators will do the job they are supposed to (we trust) but the SFO would dig deeper and more specific if...and I stress IF...there is any suggestion monies due to our club have in fact been deposited elsewhere. There are many way to interpret fraud so I think specialists should be looking at the practice of CW and whoever else is Wayvetower!

Believable3 Unbelievable0

If you do that, you will ruin us and u can forget us rebuilding a new team next season. Just leave rangers to do ther business!

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Do their business how,s that working out for you.nice to see some rangers fans are law abiding 90% of you are happy with the loan arranger getting away with being a crook,fecking amazing your hurting lizzie an you dont care,garlar07

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15 Feb 2012 16:48:42
Eds, I take my hat of to you all! I'm a relatively new visitor to these pages and, to be honest, I don't know how you handle it sometimes! In my short time viewing these pages I have seen some of the most ridiculous postings I could ever have imagined possible alongside all kinds of ill founded allegations and, indeed, accusations. I come on here, particularly during the current situation, looking for the sensible opinions and insightful thoughts of others to help me fully consider the larger picture. I know that I, personally, have had my eyes opened to a few things through reading these pages so they must be of some use! It must be a tedious task trying to balance banter with abuse, legal from illegal, and just general nonsense from 'fact' (I've grown to really hate that word recently!) I'm sure things are pretty hectic at the moment but keep up the good work as we all appreciate your efforts... {Ed001's Note - that word, fact, is the bane of my life, I notice that it usually accompanies a post of complete nonsense!!}

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Ed001 - funny reply but I do know it's meant. They'll be toddlers in houses walking about shouting 'fact' as dad batters the keyboards.
Iam Legend {Ed001's Note - bless them, that is the scary thing, they really do seem to believe it!}

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Were you wearing knee pads when you typed that post,tongue hanging out as well...crawler....trueblue..... {Ed001's Note - and I thought you loved us too! =o( }

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15 Feb 2012 17:06:04
Am I alone in wishing HMRC had actually won the Court of Session ruling yesterday and NOT CW? At least we would have had a wholly independent Administrator who you would imagine would be far more transparent with their findings. I am not suggesting CW's Administrators of choice will not be professional...they're not stuped I am sure and will work within the law...but it is the arrogant parading of one of D&G's Partners since Day One of CW's takeover that makes the whole appointment of D&G stink to high heaven!

Believable5 Unbelievable2

No don't be so fkn stupid! We will be fine! We just need to let cw do what he does best. He's a clever **** and knows what he's doin mate, trust me buddy we will be fine.

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How many times have you read in the papers that .hmrc. have mucked cases up with their gung ho attitude,its been going on for years,there fu..ing useless...trueblue...

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D and G may well work within the confines of the law regarding our administration but their closeness to Whyte should concern us as he has ran the club using every legal loophole available to him to put the club in this position

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15 Feb 2012 16:44:02
Got to love all the supposition on here,our club would have entered admin with or without craig whyte,get yer heads around that guys,he isnt my best pal either but we have to see how this pans out,in the business world this kind of thing happens every ten minutes so dont read too much in to the fact he hasnt paid tax for a few months,,think about it? If you personally were in financial difficulties and were being declared bankrupt would you rush to hand over money.Not saying its morally correct,but business in general is cutthroat,how do you think all these guys make their dosh,stay calm and wait and see

Believable1 Unbelievable1

"Got to love all the supposition on here" - and what is your post if it is not supposition.

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15 Feb 2012 16:30:55
Ed will we still be liable for "the big tax case" if we get out of admin as the same club? If so we could be looking at this all over agian when the result comes?!?!?!?! I think this has been Whytes plan from day 1. He just needed a debt to go into admin for, not paying tax and PAYE ect ect since he took over was the quickest way to do it! this is a grim time indeed and i have a funny feeling we are not going to like whats ahead! I wish the old board would either put up or shut up! If they realy cared that much provide a rescue package!! aWb {Ed001's Note - the case is continuing anyway, regardless of admin, it will still hang over the club.}

Believable2 Unbelievable0

15 Feb 2012 16:23:58
How did we get here?

In hindsight, I fully beleive this was the only solution after years of over spending. Murray tried his best to cut debt to no avail. The only answer was administration. Whyte was brought in only for this purpose, and I believe Murray knew this. The Independant board knew nothing about it, and quite rightly aired their opinions and grievances.

So what has Whyte done since taking over?

Purchased club using ticketus money, which Murray was well aware of, and used this to pay off Lloyds. Whyte has then used the money that was left over from this, to appear to use his own money. But as to date, he has not put any of his own money in. Why would he when administration was the plan. He has paid back ticketus with every source of income, and witheld other monies where possible VAT and PAYE to run club. He has been stalling until now to put the club into administration to conincied with the "big tax case"

What now?

2 scenarios but both will result in Whyte no longer owning the club

1) We come out of administration. In order to do this the administrator must agree 75% of the creditors value. HMRC will be one of these creditors, and with the way Whyte has dealt with them so far, will be in no mood to back down. So the 9m for VAT/PAYE must be payed. The EBT's will be discussed in near future, but HMRC will only agree to x amount to pound if the 9m bill is paid first. Otherwise the CVA will never be agreed and liquidation will follow. If CVA is agreed, Whyte will then own a debt free club and a more attractive club to sell, which is where he will make his money.
2) Liquidation. He has paid ticketus back all money owed, and this means they are out of picture. So Whyte will receive cash for all Rangers assets which he can then sell on to the new company. So he makes his money this way, and I fully expect new owners either scenario. It is possible we can transfer our share in the league over to this new company but this will be decided by Doncaster and others on SPL board. They may punish us with points deduction, but it would still allow us to remain in SPL rather than division 3 as per some rumours.

So that's my opinion for what it's worth. Feel free to comment, knock holes in it or whatever. I'm a Rangers season ticket holder and have backed Whyte since day one, and I still hope the guy has done good for the club and scenario 1 mentioned above is best way forward as far as I can see. Long Live Glasgow Rangers.

Believable3 Unbelievable5

You lot really need to take your heads out the sand at some point, all this being denial isn't gona help your club. As for the garbage about ticketus have been paid...give your self a shake pal this is embarassing

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15 Feb 2012 16:23:21
Just thought I'd give my 2 cents...

The administrators are in, Whyte will have known LONG ago that this was going to happen, in fact, i would go as far as to say he was "banking" on it, no pun intended. I strongly believe he and David Murray were well aware of this, but given David rep as a businessman, he wouldn't have wanted this on his CV. Whyte, as we all know is shrewd and will make his money any way possible. I believe he will re-buy the club back which will be debt free. He will already have a buyer to buy the club off of him lined up.

I believe his plan from the beginning was to buy Rangers, put it into administration, get his £18mil back, which i think he has already don't from the ticket sales, not pay his bills so that when it goes into administration, they will be greatly reduced. He will then buy most of it back as another entity but still with the name Glasgow Rangers. he will then sell it onto a more affluent businessman, who will be seen as our "Knight in Shining Armour", with Whyte being the bad guy, meanwhile Whyte will have made a pretty penny, Rangers will be Debt Free and will be owned by a richer businessman, with a clear aim to making Rangers successful again.

Whyte may actually be shrewd, but he may just have actually saved Rangers...

Think about it, this £75mil was David Murray and the former boards doings, Whyte has to pick this up and whether you want to believe it or not, anyone with half a brain can see that Administration is THE only way to save this club...no one would put £75mil in to clear the debts when half of it minimum could be written off, for free...

Believable6 Unbelievable2

Amen,,,pity some of the other bears cant see what the plan is,,,,well said mate,you are Correct

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15 Feb 2012 16:18:07
I know this would be a long shot t can anybody reply to this, preferbly if they are in the BLUE ORDER that could possibly chat with the administrators, spread the word, here it is, for all of the 200,000 strong bears that went to manchester and supporters clubs all over scotland could donate 50-100 pounds to rangers then it could add up, think about it guys IMO its one of the easiest ways to help our beloved team out, feel free to donate more than that if need be but if you can show what our great support can achieve well............... a don't see any problem that we can run the club right, strong and safely, please do not hit me with any bad responses, this just a suggestion as i am one of the concerned fans (LOYAL BEAR) WATP NSE

Believable5 Unbelievable4

15 Feb 2012 15:38:12
Have to agree with earlier posts that liquidation is looming as HMRC won't cut a deal. 140 years of history ends however what would the future be. Newco still playing in the SPL with penalties but still playing at Ibrox, no Europe for 3 years. No DEBT, share issue for newco should bring in major funds and we keep Rangers in the club title. New money to bring more players in, remember all debts die with the old club.You can't rewrite history, memories and titles will remain on statutes, the big ask is will we the fans agree. Alternatively we can keep our history and be poor for years paying off our debts and be second best due to no cash. You can't rewrite history but you can CREATE it. Celtic will downsize, with 7m in debt Lawell won't spend if he has a 15pt start for the next 3 years or keep a big squad, even better it still won't guarantee them the league. Looks like that ice cream has melted and jelly hasn't set. WATP.

Believable3 Unbelievable9

What a stupid post.your "newco" will have no history to even print in a publicity blurb!celtic dont need to downsize because thanks to astute buying and an excellent scouting network the average age of most teams celtic put on the park is 23.all these players have a good sell on value and have a great u/19 side coming thru.you will have ,im sure, to restart in div 3 as you have shafted three clubs out of money.and dont worry about the jelly n ice cream its just perfect. A Tim.

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Listen to uncle lawell...we dont NEED rankers fact! FYI ma ice cream is as frozen as rankers bank account and ma jelly is as wobbly as sallys belly! this isnt goodbye we might meet in a cup someday hailhail lmfao!!

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And then your alarm went off, you woke up and realised the nightmare you will be in for years to come.

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No way ,if rangers die my support dies with them.we need answers where's the money will Craig white sell ibrox and Murray park I will not trust another word that comes out his lying mouth..

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Obviosuly i'm not happy with rangers situation and we need to take our medicine form the adminstrators. However Mr Lawell needs to make statments like that because he has a stakeholders to keep happy, but any celtic fan who genuinely believes Celtic would'nt need to downsize without Rangers is nieve at best.

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15 Feb 2012 15:34:52
I have to say this Craig whyte is some man, the guy has baws the size of two hot air balloons man... He strolled in last may like f&cking "Archie" himself ... Talking about plan this an plan that... Aye ya pr!ck we all no now you only ever had one plan....To try the most audacious "daylight robbery" I've ever an will ever witness... As fans we must support Paul Murray or ANY consortium over whyte... Someone phone souness aswell get him in the mix......... A newly named team is my worst fear boys. PaulRFC

Believable12 Unbelievable4

Nine months of blagging and no one saw him doing it god almighty you couldnt make it up. alastair johnson and paul murray were on the board for a good bit of that time and never blew the whistle on him. so what right have they to take the moral high ground now? they are as much to blame as he is. ok johnson told us to keep our eye on whyte but stopped short of telling us why and now he is demanding all sorts of investigations over something he was a part of. why didnt he have the balls to hold a press conference and tell the rangers fans EXACTLY what his reservations were? was it maybe because he was in fear of whyte suing him and winning? i have been a rangers fan my whole life as was my father and grandfather....but if whyte or any of the previous board come out of this with any power whatsoever at rangers im afraid i wont be back

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15 Feb 2012 15:33:39
The Scotsman interview with Craig Whyte 05/02/12 (10 fkn days ago!)

Tom English's Question:
'There is also talk, on top of everything else, of £5m owed in VAT. Are you sitting on a Mount Everest of debt?'

Craig Whyte's Answer:
'There’s a lot of media hostility towards myself and Rangers. It irks me sometimes. The VAT thing is rubbish. I have regular dialogue with HMRC about a number of issues, in particular the Employment Benefit Trust case. All sorts of things. I talk to them often, I know exactly what they’re doing and what they’re thinking and there’s no issue on that front'

I believed this guy was trying his best for our beloved club and now look at it. He should be run out of town asap.
We must find a way out and who knows get behind Paul Murray and co. for instance. Cant see what else we can do?

Believable3 Unbelievable1

He also said in the same interview that he had PERSONAL wealth of £33m in a bank account to invest in Rangers.

So the £33m, plus £24.4m from Ticketus, £5.5m from Jelavic, £9m from not paying taxes, where is it Mr Whyte.

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15 Feb 2012 15:19:30
Murray breaks his silence :Murray believes the club's tax case, which has prompted the dramatic development, "remains favourable".

He also confirmed that there is no legal mechanism for him to reacquire the Ibrox club.

Murray ended his 23-year reign at Rangers in May last year when he sold Craig Whyte his shareholding for £1 in return for assurances over investment.

And Murray said he believed the sale to Whyte's company presented the "best available path" for the club's future, while stressing that details of the tax case were fully disclosed in the due diligence process.

A statement from Murray read: "Words cannot express how hugely disappointed I am with news of today's appointment of administrators to The Rangers Football Club PLC (the Club).

"The timing of the appointment of administrators is especially surprising given two facts. Firstly, there has been no decision, and there is no present indication as to the timing of a decision, from the first-tier tax tribunal concerning the potential claim from HMRC of £36.5m excluding interest and penalties.

"Secondly, legal opinion on the strength of the club's case remains favourable.

"Following a protracted sale process over a three-year period, Murray International Holdings Limited (MIH) ultimately sold its 85% controlling shareholding in the club to Wavetower Limited ("Wavetower" now renamed The Rangers FC Group Limited), a company wholly owned by Craig Whyte, in good faith on 6 May 2011.

"In addition, the share purchase agreement (SPA) imposed a number of obligations on Wavetower.

Continue reading the main story
“MIH is saddened by the appointment of administrators. It recognises the tax-tribunal proceedings have stemmed from arrangements put in place during the time of its ownership”

Sir David Murray
"These included the retention of £9.5m on behalf of the club for investment in the playing squad, expenditure on the infrastructure of the stadium and settlement of an agreed tax liability, together with the availability of working capital to fund the club's operations.

"The Shareholder's Circular issued by Wavetower on 3 June 2011 confirmed these undertakings.

"Contrary to recent press speculation, there is no legal mechanism in the SPA for MIH to reacquire the Club.

"MIH wrote to Wavetower on 25 August 2011 seeking confirmation that its various obligations were being complied with.

"A confirmatory assurance was eventually obtained on 3 January 2012. Following recent speculation concerning the financing and security arrangements put in place by Wavetower, a request was issued seeking further clarity. At the time of this announcement, no response has been forthcoming.

"At the time of relinquishing control over the club, MIH endeavoured to ensure the future of the club through the various commitments and undertakings of Wavetower.

"MIH received no consideration for the sale of its controlling shareholding, but instead agreed terms attaching to the sale of its stake in the club to ensure an immediate and substantial improvement in the club's financial position, as well as a significant investment in the club and its playing squad.

"In May 2011, the sale to Wavetower presented the best available path for the club's future and was reasonable given all the circumstances existing at the time. Contrary to numerous reports, there were also no viable alternative offers made in advance of the sale.

"MIH is saddened by the appointment of administrators. It recognises the tax-tribunal proceedings have stemmed from arrangements put in place during the time of its ownership.

"However, these arrangements and details of the proceedings were fully disclosed by the club to Wavetower and Craig Whyte in the due diligence process."

The Dude

Believable1 Unbelievable1

Wonder what type of soap murray used to wash his hands of rangers? A Tim

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15 Feb 2012 15:12:36
If ever a time to get to a game its now! Get the finger out and show we are the greatest fans in the world!

Believable3 Unbelievable4

Greatests fans in the world?where were your greatest fans in the world against dundee utd in cup pummeling eh?gone..and forgotten hailhail

Agree7 Disagree3

Dundee Utd was one game what about you lot last season when small crowds was happening weekly. There has been more empty seats at parkhead than at Ibrox over the past few years!

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There is always a higher average attendace at celtic park than ibrokes

Agree1 Disagree2

Maybe due to the fact that your stadium holds more. Rangers have the highest average attendance in terms of percentage.

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15 Feb 2012 15:06:15
when we are back on our feet,,(and make no mistake we WILL be back stronger and wiser)and we win our next league title I for one will take great pleasure in ramming it down all these septic supporter throats who have been on here gloating,WATPGSTQ {Ed001's Note - wouldn't that just make you no better than them? I have never seen the point in gloating, it just comes back to bite you on the backside.}

Believable0 Unbelievable3

Your next league title will be the 3rd division title IF alloa get injuries lmfao jelly and ice cream tonight me think p.s mr whyte we love you and your welcome anytime at paradise

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You're right Ed....The gloating that went on when Celtic were "hours" away from administration has come back to bite Rangers fans firmly on the backside!

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Haha.brilliant! be at least three years then. brechin,alloa,east stirling here YOU come. A Tim

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Sorry to disagree ED001 (well I WOULD ) but yes we Tims are gloating, being a LFC fan you probably are unaware of all the stick thrown at Celtic, hearses outside Celtic Park, RIP Celtic in all the papers, Rangers fans shoved it down our throats.There was none of Scotland needs a strong Celtic, no they wanted us dead. Suddenly they cannot take it when the boot is on other foot.
Yes ED001 I REMEMBER their insults, so what goes around comes around. In the words of a certain other person SHADENFREUDE. Got to go my jelly and ice cream is waiting. Hail hail Timalloy {Ed001's Note - then you have even less excuse, because you know how it feels.}

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On you go Timalloy batter in there, jelly and ice cream, party celebrate. Brother Walfrid will be proud of you. Celebrating possible job and small business losses in the surrounding area. You've been at it for weeks. Now you and your other dark seekers are dancing on the hardship of the forgotten working people and small businesses at Ibrox. Reminiscent of Thatcher after victory over the unions.
You're plastic.
'There was none of Scotland needs a strong Celtic, no they wanted us dead' who are they? please explain
Iam Legend

Agree5 Disagree1

Ah at last. The great unwashed with the eternal chip on the shoulder strays on to the champions site. F--K off back to your own site. We are all hurting enough just now without having to put up with your S--TE. Oh by the way. You must be the only club in the world who would celebrate winning a title after your nearest rivals have been deducted 10 points. Just about sums you up. Then again, Its not been won yet.

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15 Feb 2012 14:49:03
CW is in London, plotting god knows what now. He's not in Monaco sipping bubbly with his feet up like some people seemed to think. Sorry to be doom and gloom but I stand by my belief that unless CW is out of the picture and someone else takes charge we will be liquidated and re-emerge and not necesserily in Scotland (if CW is still involved). Im thinking best case scenario is a consortium sweaps in and saves the day and we get out of admin asap and move forward with a cash injection (more wishful thinking than best case scenario). Watch out for a full house this Saturday btw. I dont care if we have to play the under 19's in the coming weeks. Get rid of the deadwood and the leeches. Keep believing. As long as 11 players walk out on that pitch wearing the famous jersey we'll be there. Still the most decorated club in Scotland. WATP

Believable3 Unbelievable5

He is plotting to liquidate the club
as he knows the real total amount of debt we are in and if and i think we will lose the tax case our debts will be running close on £150m and due to 3 tax cases of debt that will be around £87m mr whyte will make sure it will be liquidation and he will walk away with a tidy profit .HMRC WILL NOT DEAL IN PENNY IN POUND PAYMENT.Mr whyte's actions yesterday removed any chance of that.

WG

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15 Feb 2012 14:43:13
Real possibility that club could go into liquidation as a result of not being able to pay the 9m PAYE/VAT that Craig Whyte has failed to pay since he arrived at the club.
Well aware that the other possible tax bill has not been decided yet, but this 9m if not paid will force the club into liquidation so really time to find out if the club which includes the timeline really does matter to all the supporters,because if it does then we all need to find a way of funding this 9m asap which will stave off the threat of the club going into liquidation and faciltate a real opportunity with the correct business proceedure in place thast we can preserve the great history of this club for the future. Time guys to do what our main rivals did and put our money where our mouths are. If you dont believe that the club will face liquidation you are kidding yourself on,just read numerous reports that are written by financial experts,if we sit back and hope things will get better it will simply be too late and no way back,unless of course you are happy to start following a new team,playing at perhaps Ibrox because guys that is exactly what the team will be a new club no matter which way you dress it up. Do the sums its not the possible 49m or 75m as Craig Whyte has suggested i am talking about the 9m he has failed to pay which will be the ONLY reason why HMRC will not agree to us coming out of administration. The only other option is that we are lucky enough to find that 4/5 wealthy supporters have already thought of this problem and are preapred to help preserve the the name of this instution that has been on the go for 140 years. Guys lets give this post real serious thought and come up with just how we get the plan to raise 9m started ASAP.

Believable6 Unbelievable0

15 Feb 2012 14:41:52
good luck at this tough time hope you bounce back stronger and back onto your rightfull perch 90% of true (scousers) lfc support you, you are the people.

Believable6 Unbelievable4

What nonsense! most LFC fans i know(and thats a few) follow celtic,and i have been travelling to liverpool since the 70's to see them. A Tim {Ed001's Note - most Liverpool fans I know don't care for either Old Firm side, nor any other club but Liverpool. In the past Liverpool and Rangers were connected as Liverpool had a large contingent of Scottish Protestants in its early days. But that has long since lapsed and a number of Liverpool fans do favour Celtic due to the post-Hillsborough match between the clubs and the link of YNWA. But to say most support either side of the Old Firm is nonsense, most support their own club.}

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Ed001;thats why i never said support.more like their scottish team. cheers, A Tim {Ed001's Note - I was referring to the first post use of the word support, most people support one team.}

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The Kop means KiNG OvER POPE!

Just saying! {Ed001's Note - erm no it does not, it has no such meaning whatsoever, it just means hill or mountain and was brought back to England during the Boer War.}

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Ed 001 I can remember my dad making reference to a RFC/LFC connection like before/after WW2 and as you say that is no longer with a similar thing at NUFC.
One thing that was started was The Hillsborough.Ibrox.Memorial.Group in Oct 2010 I think, for both sets of supporters.
You are right re KOP and the Boer War I think there was a battle with heavy casualties on the Brit side with many from Liverpool. Saw a tv documentary.
I am sure there are supporters from EPL teams who support RFC or CFC but the vast majority support there own clubs and probably watch an old firm game, nothing more.
It is nice though to receive posts from them, appreciated.
Iam Legend

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15 Feb 2012 14:26:26
Ed why are there still people wanting to know if cousin has signed? This is a guy that couldn't wait to get out of ibrox the last time, I feel we should be more worried about the youngsters instead of Dan cousin, what do you think? {Ed001's Note - people are just looking for any glimmer of hope in a difficult time. It is understandable mate.}

Believable2 Unbelievable1

15 Feb 2012 14:24:31
A MESSAGE FROM THE MANAGER - ALLY McCOIST has issued a rallying cry to Rangers fans as he urges the Light Blue faithful to back his side this weekend and for the rest of the season.

The manager shares the fans' disappointment at today's news that the club has moved in to administration.


But he has now called upon the supporters he describes as the 'best in the world' to get behind their team in its hour of need.

McCoist said: "The most important people at this football club have always been the fans and that will always be the case.

"They are suffering at the moment and I am one myself. I have supported the club all my life and I know how they are feeling.

"The one thing that I have to ask them at this time for the club is to be with the club and with the team. The team really need the support of the fans more than ever in this hour.

"It's always been the case that we have had a wonderful relationship with the fans and I firmly believe that they are the best in the world.

"Now we need them and we have to ask them to prove that again by supporting the team in numbers and I am sure they will do that.

"They understand that it is not an ideal situation. We have been deducted ten points and that makes life very, very difficult for us.

"But these are the facts and I would just ask the fans for their continued great support and to please get behind the team."

Reports already suggest that McCoist can expect a healthy backing for his team this Saturday when they face Kilmarnock and the manager admits he hopes that is the case.

He added: "Of course I hope that happens and it doesn't surprise me to hear that, but it won't stop me asking them again to do that.

"I can still close my eyes and see our fans in that stadium down in Manchester and that will live with me until my dying day.

"It was incredible support for the team and we have had that over our 140 years.

"I'm biased but I make no apology for that, I believe we have the best fans in the world and I think that will show in the next few weeks."

Believable6 Unbelievable6

What a load of gushing nonsense.in sure ally remembers the "ally ally get to f**k" chants as he mentioned it in his book.not one word about all the decent people working behind the scenes at ibrox,ticket office,kit washers,groundsmen,cleaners etc who face losing their income.he also has been complicit in whytes lies or he would surely have walked if whyte was lying to him(jelavic sale,trialists etc) i used to have a lot of respect for mccoist now im not so sure. A Tim

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15 Feb 2012 14:23:33
I think we should all support this 'Blue Knight' plan. I don't care who owns the club, as long as it is not that rat who is trying to squeeze a personal profit from our football club!

Believable3 Unbelievable3

Whyte knight,blue knight whats next gladys knight? A Tim

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15 Feb 2012 14:22:59
Priority must be to come out of administration and avoid liquidation which means we keep the history of the club no matter if it means for a few seasons the level of player or performance is not the best.
Not sure that there would be any enjoyment in supporting a completely new club which is exactly what we would be if we cannot agree a proceedure to come out of administration.

Believable4 Unbelievable1

15 Feb 2012 14:21:02
Just listening to a report on the radio whcih states that HMRC pushed us into admin due to unpaid paye and vat for this season = 9m. It's not becasue of the EBT case.
It sounds like whyte hasn't paid tax this year for rangers.

quabba

Believable3 Unbelievable0

15 Feb 2012 14:17:45
.......HEALTH WARNING......

With all the Mud Slinging going on
around the Ibrox area of Glasgow,
police have advised people to be
extra vigilant......

Public Message relayed by Timalloy

Believable1 Unbelievable4

You dhims seem to spend more time on this site than your own. So what you have been handed the league, won by default!! My head is telling me its over but in my heart....
Its only fourteen points with two old firm games and you lot are the biggest bottle crashers, proven. So go back to your own site and bleat about how good Lemon has done with his first team of 42 players.

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Well i suggest you go to the bookies mouthy.you might win enough to make whyte an offer..A Tim

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On you go Timalloy batter in there, jelly and ice cream, party celebrate. Brother Walfrid will be proud of you. Celebrating possible job and small business losses in the surrounding area. You've been at it for weeks. Now you and your other dark seekers are dancing on the hardship of the forgotten working people and small businesses at Ibrox. Reminiscent of Thatcher after victory over the unions.
Iam Legend

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@iamlegend;priceless.its your dodgy owner thats laying people off you numpty!we are not celebrating that we dance cos you are wrecked n its great fun. A Tim

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A Tim - doesn't change anything as to who is paying them off. They could be paid off.
I noticed a post by you re Ally's statement making reference to the people who might loose their jobs - taking the moral high ground there and using that to slate Ally off.
All concerned when it's of benefit to you -plastic.
Iam Legend.

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15 Feb 2012 14:16:12
Read an interesting tweet from a London based Business Guru last night who claims mobile telecommunications giant Vodafone owe HMRC around £7bn for non payment of taxes over a number of years. The Business guru claims HMRC and Vodafone arranged an out of court settlement that Vodafone would pay back around £1.25m per year. Fair enough Vodafone are a multinational company with constant income but why are HMRC pinpointing a historical institution like Rangers and dragging them through the mud when there are a number of bigger fish to fry out there who owe up to 70 times more than we do.

Believable3 Unbelievable3

Vodaphone are paying 1.25 BILLION per year and employ over 8000 people.thats the reason. A Tim

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HMRC are wanting to set an example of UK football clubs who delay or not pay their tax NI etc. They consider these clubs to be using the tax etc as an extra income by delaying the payments or forcing HMRC to chase them up. HMRC could not have payed for the huge coverage that this £9m due is getting in national and local press and TV with RFC. They view these clubs as using the HMRC as a form of a resource, using the money that should have gone to them for other purposes and paying up later. Like a loan.
Further and in general £25 billion is lost annually in tax avoidance and a further £70 billion in tax evasion by large companies and wealthy individuals. An additional £26 billion is going uncollected.
HMRC are going to see this one out. They will pursue this debt as I doubt they have little option now.
Tax avoidance is not illegal, tax evasion is. The bigger tax tribunal will decide that outcome.
Apparently it is a practise when a company is heading for admin, they delay paying bills for as long as possible so they can use that money elsewhere. Morally admin is wrong but business people tell you it is spot on.
Iam Legend

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15 Feb 2012 14:08:38
BBC Doulas Fraser on TV and Radio Deals.

The rights for radio coverage of the SPL for next season onwards are being re-negotiated. The finances of the commercial radio stations have not been that great anyway, so they may choose not to roll over their arrangements.

The BBC has the national rights package for radio commentary, online and TV highlights, and the uncertainty over Rangers' future puts the corporation in a stronger negotiating position for next season's deal.

The big money is in live TV rights, which Sky and ESPN have already signed off from the start of next season - worth £80m for five years.

But a former SPL chief executive has told BBC Scotland that the contract is likely to include a break clause if the Old Firm clubs are not in a position to participate at the start of next season.

So if Rangers finds there's a long delay in getting out of administration, and its role in the SPL is in doubt, there could be doubt about that TV rights deal going ahead. And of course, that affects other clubs who depend on income from that contract.

W-Lyl

Believable1 Unbelievable1

15 Feb 2012 14:06:54
Here's the deal:

Rangers has to go bust - liquidated - for CW's plan to work. They know they will lose the big tax case. If that happens, HMRC are biggest creditor (even allowing for being unsecured), and their application to appoint an administrator would likelyhave been successful

Because they are currently 'only' owed £9m, they did not have enough sway to convince judge. So, CW gets his guys in. They will be professional, but will also have pre-discussed what to do next.

A quick CVA, and exit from administration is useless to rangers/CW because it would happen before big tax bill hits. That is not currently a debt, so can't be included in any settlement. RFC 1873 would exit admin and last about a month before being back in, with HMRC in far stronger position.

In any case, HMrC will never agree to CVA - it meets none if the criteria, and lack of current PAyE/VAT payments is nail in coffin for that. CW must know this, but will blame HMRC intransigence for eventual liquidation.

If the club goes completely bust, (liquidated, not admin), the assets can be sold to secured creditor's newco if no-one else loses out - which they won't if assets are worth same or less than secured credit. Then, RFC 2012 will own the assets, and will potentially be a football club. ( if there is any excess it will be distributed to unsecured creditors proportionately.)

When the tax case goes against oldco, it will have no impact, as RFC 1873 is already gone, and RFC2012 is a completely new entity. This only works with a liquidation.

RFC 2012 will then only be able to pick up RFC 1873's league role if the SPL agrees. There is a committee which decides if licences can be transferred. This means that all the clubs which have been burned by oldco (eg Hearts) and who have lost put on the pitch to big spending, will have two choices: 1) apply full sanctions and RfC2012 has to apply to rejoin at bottom of the league 2) swallow it, and agree a compromise in exchange for allowing playing licence to transfer (eg 15 points off for next three years). Hobson's choice for them, and The 10pt penalty is not applicable when liquidation occurs.

Rangers won't be in Europe for a number of years, even if 'successful' in liquidation strategy.

I think Whyte recycled his cash immediately, with Ticketus etc. They possibly have step-in rights to his securities to cover their payment. If not, they must be happy with cover - they're not daft. Whyte probably has £1 at risk, and a day 1 plan to abandon old Rangers, and their debts, transfer assets into newco, negotiate something short of new league application, and emerge with Ticketus getting revenues, and him owning a debt free RFC2012 for feck all. It's actually a reasonable and audacious plan if you've got the balls/morals for it.

Where i think he'll fall down is that creditors may have been alienated by his goings on, and will take legal action to tie it up for a long time. The profile is going to be higher than he anticpated, and also there's little chance that he'll pass director's qualifications now! Maybe his mate Ellis will..?

My bet is that because of legal actions, the liquidation and Phoenix co will struggle to happen in time, and RFC will not be in the league next year in any form.

Murray will not buy club back, even if he wanted to, for simple reason that he is allegedly skint. Also, from what I am understand, MIH also administered an EBT in similar fashion, and will be a victim of hMRC win at tribunal. The reason HMRC is so keen, is that RFC is tip of iceberg and is the test case which will establish precedent in many more cases with hundreds of millions at stake.

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An excellent post.pretty much what i have been told with the exception that HMRC have second guessed this and will push this to the wire re the proposed cva.i also think that maybie his ace card was the tv deal,but have a funny feeling that other clubs fan groups have a hunger to see justice done here,meaning a push for a new start in div 3.this means more to play for than third place in a two team league.this is where he will come unstuck. A Tim

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I agree with almost everything you are saying. HMCR will not give up on this and will make sure they either get there money or send rangers under.
As you said this is a test case and there a quite a few EPL clubs that will be in the same boat as Rangers and HMCR can not let Rangers away with the tax bill, as they have other clubs they will go for next. However I do think a phoenix club will be created, but I dont think his plan is to keep the new RFC in scotland. If CW retains the club.
Banned for 3 years I think for europe, enter the conference national which all going well for the new RFC it would take 4 years to get to the championship. I would think that CW if he was to go down that route would sell the club as soon as papers were signed and he would get a very hefty profit. It would seem a back door into the english leagues as for a short peroid of time the phoenix club would be a new team with no connections to any league so I think it would be actually against the law to stop them from entering the english leagues as you can not stop a Scottish company moving to England to trade and that would be the same as a new football team.
I remember not so long ago reading a quote from CW 'If rangers were in the English leagues I would have a inverstor for £100million waiting to invest and I am sure I could get another £100million invested'. Although I cant say anything of any truth has come out of his mouth yet.
We have to be honest with ourselves the SPL is dying. If they lost us, of course celtic would survive but most of the rest wouldnt and I dont want to watch a league with 3 professional teams and the rest semi professional. If there is to be a future I think it lies in England.

Don

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Your assumption has only one great big fault in it.What happens if Rangers win tax case?

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Agreed. However, I believe the new club WILL be voted into the SPL next season as revenge won't pay the bills. TV and gate money is/will be more with both halfs of the Old Firm fighting it out. I also think the SFA will vote in strict new measures that ALL clubs will have to abide by. Cash out = cash in, wage cap etc etc. I am not happy from a moral stance about any of this mess but I'm pretty sure the game as a whole will benefit from the "shock" treatment it's about to get...
BB

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@Don;i agree.but theres no way rangers would start in that tier.everton made enquiries about putting a team in the lower tier as a feeder and were told to start in the 9th level.there might be a chance of buying in at some level but that would still be a shed load of out going cash,not to mention playing games against kidderminster etc,how many would turn up and what sort of player budget would rangers have. A Tim

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15 Feb 2012 13:54:35
Whyte............ Where is the Ticketus money ?
Whyte............ Where is the money from sale of players ?
Whyte.............. Why have you not paid the paye of £9m ?
Whyte.............. Why did you tell us you paid the £18m Bank debt ?
Whyte............ Where has all this money gone ?

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15 Feb 2012 13:51:44
Dave Grier (Duff and Phelps) walks through the doors of Ibrox with Craig Whyte in May 2011 - November 2011 Duff and Phelps purchases NCR - Rangers enter into Administration and Duff and Phelps are named as Rangers Administrators... Wkae up fellow Rangers fans - This has been Whytes plan all along. He is now saying we can work our way out of our CVA - let me tell you the HMRC will not allow us to come out of CVA ... he is taking us into liquidation!! Why has there been no mention of a criminal investigation into the deal to buy Rangers?? he does not care about our history or heritage - he cares about making millions from us!

Believable6 Unbelievable2

15 Feb 2012 13:47:38
Some light reading on the great Whyte knight.

How suspect is Craig Thomas Whyte doing some digging around on a companies house website (duedil) and have came across 4 Craig Thomas Whyte all with different d.o.b but all associated to companies he has been involved with.
Upto 1997 he was born in 69 and a director of companies like Vital Security all 15 companies are now dissolved.
Then the second one born in 71 associated with Rangers etc all from around 2009 10 active and 8 inactive companies.

The final 2 seem a bit strange both are with Merchant Turnaround Ltd and his d.o.b is feb 2012. Is this going to be the company to take over Rangers when it is liquidated.

So looking at the first 2 Craig Thomas Whyte is this how he hid his ban from rangers and company house.

As i said very suspect.

Here is the link for anyone to have a look if it works. If not google duedil and register.

duedil.com/directors/search?query=craig+thomas+whyte

Ian (for every £1 Celtic spend Rangers will pay their creditors 10p)

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15 Feb 2012 12:41:11
quick question..u own a failing buisness, you owe money to a.n other. you know you will be going into admin soon...would you pay the bills knowing in the not too distant future you would only need a small portion?Not sticking up for mr whyte but is this his plan?
I am hopeful that of the 2 opinion of mr whyte
that i have
1.He's a f%^!ing crooked, slippery bar steward
2. He has a plan to go with his massive balls(regards to his HMRC stance)
No 2 comes to fruition.
But i fear we have been landed with option 1 and are well and truly F!"^ed

All I want is to come through this with the history intact. I for one would support the club no matter what and put in any money that I can afford to help bail them out but i now fear we will not be given that opportunity.
Tedz

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15 Feb 2012 12:35:30
ive put myself in admin lol, i am cost cutting. so when the time comes i can invest my savings in to the worlds most succesful club W.A.T.P

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Sorry i forgot to add to my post that we should all be saving our money to help when the time comes :)

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Haha, so am I. I'm now asset stripping and have just sold the wife and kids for £3!

The Pilot!

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Ha my birds transfer fell through coz she talks to much sh!t ! PaulRFC

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As the original poster i have to declare my wife has no value, im stuck with her as she is a sinking ship, ive tried to save costs by giving her away for free but no takers lol

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15 Feb 2012 12:32:32
Is it just me or does anyone else believe that if they hadnt paid 9million worth of taxes then they would be jailed. What makes Whyte so different? I think Murray and Whyte should be shower buddies in Jial

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Haha good point
but these guys no the loopholes
this is why they have money
they are too smart (well so they think)
we shall see what happens

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The difference is that the tax for this year is not due yet but HMRC are hitting Rangers with a pre-emptive strike as they know that come the due date, the taxes will not be getting paid.

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15 Feb 2012 12:19:35
correct me if im wrong lads, but did whyte not say he was going to be working with administrators to figure out a better situation for rangers ? - then why has he buggered off back to monaco ??
ryanrfc

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He is in London conference calls and technology means easy contact ,it would also be a security issue if he stayed in Glasgow

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15 Feb 2012 12:17:50
We can only hope Paul murry comes up with a master plan . Saves our great club come forward Paul you's are our only hope ... Kenny

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15 Feb 2012 12:07:44
just had a call from a mate who works in recovery for HMRC. the talk there is that they expected this to happen and thats why they were so quick to try and put their own administrators in place(think about it,have you ever seen a govt dept react so quickly?).they know whytes plans and are ready for it,this is not good news as they will not agree to any CVA.they are also prepared to drag this on for years as they believe whyte is playing on the fact it's rangers and thinks the bad press will sway it for him.it seems whyte's past may be about to catch up with him.believe it or not but my other posts have been accurate.A Tim

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More hopeful guesswork and pure Timothy conjecture, and the usual veiled gloating attitude which comes with every post you people post on here. Be careful what you wish for, you have been accusing Rangers fans of burying their heads in the sand. If all you Dhims, incuding LIEWELL believe that this leaves Scottish football in a sustainable and finanically strong position, then you are all thicker than the trunk of the nearest Oak tree !!!.......... The loss of either Old Firm side would be the catalyst to the collapse of the Scottish league as a viable,, sustainable and interesting profession. We may, in many Dhims eyes be f*****d, but the rest of you are too, so pull your heads outta the dirt and see this as the bigger picture. Who in the Scottish game can generate the income, interest and the fan base outside of Rangers ? The biggest travelling support in the U.K, bar none, wiped out of the game ? Who will keep the rest of the SPL clubs stadiums full on a home game ? Celtic fans ? Maybe for certain games, but lets face it the only real reason for Dhims going to away games is because the excitement of a league title battle keeps the fans travelling. Are the Celtic fans going to continue travelling up to places like Inverness when realistically they would be playing for fun rather than the NEED for the important 3 points away from home to keep the title race going with their nearest rivals ? Interest would fade in a heartbeat and the game would fade away and die, if you can't see that then your heads are buried deeper in the sand and deeper than your unhealthy hate of everything RANGERS !!........ WE DIE, YOU ALL DIE ! AGer63

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How funny you refer to Lawwell as Liewell. It's not as if Rangers fans have been lied to by the board(s), is it?

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How arrogant of Rangers fans to think the game desperately needs them. What if it was OK without the club? What about when both parts of the Old Firm wanted to leave - not much concern for the Scottish game then?

Sheer arrogance.

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I doubt the first post is true, new measures have been brought in at HMRC regarding leaking info like this.

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AGer63;no guesswork here mate just facts.i posted weeks ago about administration and was told the same thing you just posted.when whyte took over i also posted about the guys he was bringing into ipox,again,slated by "the peepil".you will find out soon enough that what i posted is a fact.whyte has made this worse not better.i was told by the same mate that HMRC would have been willing to work within a cva,for around 40-50 pence in the pound.that has now gone and they will not accept any cva offer. by the way the guy who told me is a rangers season ticket holder.

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Sheer arrogance ? Do the sums for yourself ! Firstly, the spl is the poorest quality it has been for many, many years. Most honest people would agree with that. The clubs such as, Motherwell, St Mirren, St Johnstone ( and I only use these three as cup final examples)fans of these clubs turn up in numbers for cup finals !. These clubs have stadiums more than half empty when neither half of the old firm are playing. Now, if sky, espn are happy watching attendances such as this and are happy to continue throwing money at those types of games, the spl will be shorter lived than even I believe. Simple arithmetic man, Rangers AND Celtic put bums on seats at away grounds, and they switch on tv sets all over the world,................ WE DIE YOU DIE, not ARROGANCE, simple facts and simple arithmetic. AGer63

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AGer63;who says you die? you just start in div 3 like any badly managed club.three years later normal service is resumed. i assume you think you would gain succesive promotions? in those three years your "stronger"(and i use the word advisedly) clubs,aberdeen,dundee utd,hearts might scent a second place finish.this also might mean younger players getting a chance for those clubs. A Tim

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15 Feb 2012 12:04:33
taking my wee on on sat, her first game, get right behind the team, ally - not whyte or SDM or anyone else who is doing us wrong. lets try and think about the football on sat - for ally - least he deserves hope its not her last, marvin said it best -keep beleiveing guys

ryanrfc

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15 Feb 2012 11:54:06
Think of yourselves why don't you what about the smaller clubs you owe money to like Dundee utd Dunfermline Inverness for ticket sales hearts rapid Vienna burnley for players all the staff behind the scenes at ibrox eh nothing for them you are an embarrassment to football an embarrassment to Scotland defrauding the system to cash in on European runs cheats lists and conmen your club deserves to be in the gutter where it belongs

Mon the killie

Telbhoy

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I do have concerns about Dundee united and Dunfermline not being paid their ticket money no concerns for burnley who charged a ridiculous fee for lafferty wearing a mask ,concerned about hearts future are they next for administration/liquidation

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Telbhoy...yep thank you master for the lecture and its all our fault (the fans). Have Celtic never had bad people inside the club? yes thought so...fool!

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How dumb are you. if we do go to the gutter then exactly as you say those teams get nothing. so how would that be a good thing? think before typing rubbish
s-bear

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Rapid Vienna ?? Wind your neck in ya numpty! PaulRFC

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Hi all,Celtic fan here

I have all the sympathy in the world for the other clubs and the small ordinary folk this crook has defrauded but unlike the top poster that fraud also extends to the genuine Rangers fans as well , they have all been taken in by this conman and I am only glad that in our time of need we has a good old honest bunnet and not a crook like whyte. To all the bears out there hope you come through this and will finish secondto us for many years to come

hail hail danny bhoy

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Rangers were quite willing to pay an inflated fee for Lafferty so you can't blame Burnley - it's been that willingness to pay over the odds when it wasn't fiscally sensible that hes got the club into this mess.

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We owe rapid NOTHING!!

Leeroy85

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Leeroy, maybe not but you owe many others almost everything!

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Www.rangersrumours.co.uk/rangers-rumours/rangersrumours11132.php

There you go RE: lafferty
Leeroy85

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15 Feb 2012 11:33:21
Hi ed first off thanks for answering (mostly) all my posts but I have to disagree when you say (roughly) "it's hardly breaking the law if there's no money to pay the tax" because I think this was whytes plan all along to purposely run up more debt to get admin before the "big tax case" result. You no whyte kind of had the chance to prove people wrong, it's not his fault we are in so much debt but all he's done is prove them to be more than correct...it is bad enough been put through this ed but what this guy has done is disgusting mate an I am even more ashamed than I thought possible. PaulRFC {Ed001's Note - I am not disputing that the guy might be doing this on purpose, I am just trying to give a different point of view. I am on the outside looking in too, but someone has to play devil's advocate and try and give a possible defence of Whyte, just to provide a bit of balance. After all, it could turn out that he has just tried to save the club and failed.}

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Fair do mate.... You do have the voice (words) of reason.... Im just really worried that this time next year my club will have a different name an that's my worst fear... I no we would return in a better state but I can live with giving them the title for a season- infact I'd lend that lot our title for the next 5 f&cking years if it meant RFC would fight on. PaulRFC

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Would you listen to this crap. Not paying your taxes is illegal. Rangers chose not to pay their taxes, in fact they chose to pay their wages and running of the club with the withheld tax they should have paid for this year.

When Rangers are liquidated the timeline stops. You WILL not return stronger as you have ceased to exist.
A new club may claim to Rangers but if you bump the taxman what if he sees the new entity as the oldco and comes after you that way.

You're club is up that creek we've all heard about.

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What are you harping on about ya fool.... Read the post you have replied to then read your own post... Am I denying the fact it's illegal what whytes done... Am I in anyway defending him or Murray ?... No am not so go take a f&cking jump ! PaulRFC

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15 Feb 2012 10:54:12
ed. im looking about the internet trying to get some info as to who's liable for unpaid PAYE. there is conflicting stories. some suggest the company, others say individuals. can you shed any light?
j1985 {Ed001's Note - it seems to be dependent on the individual case. My understanding is that it is the company, except in case of criminal activity, ie fraud, in which case the individual faces criminal charges. But I am no expert, I will see what I can find out though, I know someone who will know, though I doubt he would be popular on here answering questions right now!}

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Ed001; as an employer it is up to me to deduct PAYE+NI at source if i provide wage slips saying this is the case.the burden for the employee is if the wage slips do not state this.this is quite common for workers employed on a short term basis but you have to inform them verbally as well. {Ed001's Note - yes, I know that, but the question was who is liable when it is not paid seemed to me to refer to whether or not Whyte would be or Rangers. I was pointing out that it would be Rangers, unless it is seen to be fraud or some other criminal activity, in which case Whyte would face criminal prosecution. I may have misunderstood the question, so sorry if your answer was the one being looked for.}

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Ed001:no problem mate.im thinking it would be rangers as whyte seems to know his way round company law.

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15 Feb 2012 11:33:28
why does alistair johnston continue to do interviews tarnishing oor club? fair enough his points are mainly directed at craig whyte, but he is constantly getting interviewed and bad mouthing us! what did he actually do when he was here? he struggled to come over from his cushy wee life in america, he also refused the buyout by the paul murray consortium and admitted to favouring craig whytes buy out!! now things are going pear shaped and hes kicking out with his 'i told you so' attitude.

he is no longer part of rangers and should go and take a proverbial f*%k too himself.

Believable4 Unbelievable1

15 Feb 2012 11:09:14
This might be in a strange way the best
Thing that's happened to Rangers the world is now alerted on Rangers as a business in need of a
New buyer as whyte can't give us a future of wealth and
Strong squads for European football etc we will be back with a more stable club and be a force in Europe and the spl, can't wait till this mess is sorted so we can get no. 55 .

Ryzabear
Watp

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@Ryzabear; its moronic posts like this that drains any sympathy fans of other clubs might have had.what about the ordinary,working people who are being shafted out of money they worked for?did you cheer when the banks were bailed out?this is more or less the same thing.millions of pounds in taxes missing.do your kids go to school? do you drive on a road? feel safer with police on the street? think we need nurses in hospitals? taxes pay for all this.i hope HMRC push for maximum sanctions against this man

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A force in Europe? Lmfao you won't even be a force in the third division. You owe more than 60 million you have no way to get it there will be no reprieve you WILL cease to exist and Scotland will cheer. This is what happens when you cheat and lie. Bye bye rangers MMI2009

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15 Feb 2012 11:08:02
A fans consortium has to be the answer, led by someone like Paul Murray.We the fans need to secure the short term future of the club right now . CW must go, he has been in this from the start for his sole gain

Believable3 Unbelievable1

15 Feb 2012 11:00:43
ill be there on sat, singing my heart out, this is not the teams fault, not ally's fault, we shouldnt make ally a failure, get behind the team, whyte will not be at ibrox and go to edinburgh if u want to protest at david murrays office, the team should not get it or ally. watp

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Ally's not clean in all this.out of four cups,blown a big lead in the league and has lied for whyte.

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The fact is Ally is a failure(so far)

Failed in Europe, failed in league cup, failed in Scottish Cup, failed in league - lets be honest, we werent going to win the league anyway.

So how can you say he is not a failure?

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You lot cant mention europe and if we only lose the league by ten points or less people will always say you won by default but i know that wont stop you being proud of it celtic are that desperate to win the league lol mark.

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@ mark; while your lot are desperate to come out debt free and in disgrace? and by the way how did malmo and maribor do in the europa league in a much easier group than celtic? bottom i think with one draw each? mccoist blew your revenue streams and is untouchable,well we will see how long that lasts before the old ally ally get to f**K chants are ringing round ipox.A Tim

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15 Feb 2012 10:54:04
We deserve what we get none of us were asking about where the money was coming from when wee Dick was in charge, plus we choose to believe Mr tight before john gregg FFS.

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15 Feb 2012 10:52:39
plan all along to liquidate the club. Whyte as secured and largest creditor will pocket the assets and HMRC will get very little as they are only owed £9m at present. Liiquidation to happen prior to the tax case being resolved, thus meaningless. Fans struggle by until the end of the season to keep the club fulfilling its fixtures and technicalities re re-admission to be addressed prior to the end of the season. Gers start up again in the new season debt free and can negotiate media rights, sponsorships etc. May take a season or two to rebuild but i think we will be back as strong as ever, hence why Celtic supporters etc are obsessed with us getting future points deductions etc. Statistics gone yes, but history never dies. Maybe in 10 years time Mr Whyte may not be the villain as he is currently being protrayed!

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If you go into liquidation that means you are no longer in excistance which means you can not full fill your fixtures for the season. Think before you post.

Ian (For every £1 Celtic spend Rangers will pay their creditors 10p)

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How on earth can the club fulfill their fixtures if the club doesn't exist? Go into liquidation and your 'great' club will be finished

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Do you really think it's as simple as that to play the system to avoid paying taxes/debts? If it was don't you think every club on the planet would already have done it to clear their debts? Fool

Mikey Bhoy

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What a load of tosh. Rangers history will end when you have to reform as govan tax dodgers in the third division. Only thing that will continue is the bigotry. Bye bye rangers MMI2009

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To the poster above unless you are as stupid as you sound the history of scottish football will still say the same as now our mighty club may die as it is but it will return with the same stadium, the same colours, and last of all the same nack of winning more than you lol . oh rangers the club wont go down in history for not paying its taxes the former and current boards will and wot mark.

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If liquidated,rangers history goes with the new club it will only exist in your minds.no cups,no leagues,and no ridiculous stars on your now.tatty,colours.happy? A Tim

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So a tim your trying to say all cups won upto now by rangers will be wiped from the record books if we go into liquidation then ur a fool mark.

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Your the fool mate.if liquidated the team you follow will have NO HISTORY!those trophies are connected to the defunct rangers,like third lanark or renton. A Tim

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15 Feb 2012 10:51:54
Super Ally might not have the best start or record as a Rangers manager, but now through these difficult time ahead, there is no better man to be sitting in the Rangers hotseat and give his all for the club and to portray to the players what a club like this means to so many fans and families. We are the people and we will stand united!

Sm

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15 Feb 2012 10:02:25
will the administrators let anyone near the club if Whyte want his filthy lucre are they in place to get the best prices for there freinds as we find wee companys that we have not heard of before been awarded the Murray park deal and ellis get the Ibrox deal and we get ride all

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15 Feb 2012 10:01:11
Just got to say to all the EDs what a fantastic job you guys are doing. Must be really busy on this page at the moment, you deserve a lot of credit.

Billyboy1 {Ed001's Note - the sites are busier now than they were for most of January, normally Feb is the quietest month of the year!}

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15 feb 2012 10:17:44
i cant look at the news papers
now , every day it gets worse.
i stick up for our club , even
when i know i am wrong. this is
a joke, dundee fans laughing at
us, now that is it. it is now
like a bad soap - wrote by
basil faulty. no one likes us
i think we are starting to care.

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15 Feb 2012 10:15:09
I'm a Celtic fan and I'd just thought I'd say that I don't want Rangers to disappear the spl wouldn't be the same with the old firm. It is one of the biggest if not THE biggest game in the football calender all over the world and it would be sorely missed. If rangers go bust it will be a sad day for the spl. Let's face it, it's pretty s**te any way just Celtic and Rangers every year, it would be even s**tter if it was just Celtic

Shill YNWA

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15 Feb 2012 09:48:12
craig whyte has retreated to his base in monaco. i presume he is in hiding.

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15 Feb 2012 09:40:00
i have to ask this question

did Murray want this to happen for

[a]his empire is finished
[b]there,s something to hide yet about how easily he got hold of money from rbs,were the bankers and Murray to cosey was fred the shred not a rugby pal of Murrays,we need to be told

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If you had the brains to look in to it more .You would find out it was the Bank of Scotland that gave Murray all his money. This only came to a end when Lloyds took over the Bank.

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15 Feb 2012 09:35:31
Hey guys.. Just a thought as we need to do something to save our club. I know it seems completely far fetched and possibly out there. If 50,000 fans contribute £1,000 then we will have £50,000,000 as a whole. I am really not up on all the buyout but surely this would be enough to buy our club and be fan owned? Opinions welcome

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Tap us a grand and I'm in!

The Pilot!

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15 Feb 2012 09:33:35
we just aint getting out of administration

its the end......les

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15 Feb 2012 09:30:02
Kilmarnock 1 Rangers 5 - League Champions 2011

www.youtube.com/watch?v=yp5V55e5Ixo

Might cheer everyone up

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We must start to look forward not back mate but still rangers through and through.

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15 Feb 2012 09:29:01
Not a rumor per say but worth a chuckle

Craig Whyte has nothing to declare
i40.tinypic.com/2ueiemv.jpg

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15 Feb 2012 09:25:25
We can say good buy to macshagger . Davies lafferty Naismith they will be the first to go dad days ahead folks we are the people ...kenny

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15 Feb 2012 09:22:04
Just like to say, if Rangers agree a CVA and exit admin soon, they will then be served with the big tax case bill which will put HMRC in a position of power and which will allow them to force liquidation.

This is like 1994 all over again except that this is a dream come true rather than a nightmare.

Believable2 Unbelievable2

15 Feb 2012 09:13:37
Ed why is nothing getting posted today ... Kenny {Ed001's Note - sorry mate, you have to bear with us, we have to sleep at some point! Then when we wake up, we have to try and catch up with anything that has happened over night and digest it so that we can answer questions about it etc.}

Believable0 Unbelievable0

15 Feb 2012 09:08:36
Very little we can do at the moment to help or change the situation. What we can do is get RIGHT behind this team! Forget your feeling about Whyte HMRC or any of the other side shows, get to Ibrox and urge the boys over the line.

BB

Believable1 Unbelievable0

15 Feb 2012 08:34:36
with all this tax avoidance and court cases piling up wee craig might have to buy a cell in barlinnie

Believable1 Unbelievable1

15 Feb 2012 08:34:12
Whyte do one good thing and sack McCoist. He doesnt deserve to be remembered as the manager of Rangers Football Club when this happens. He is a legend dont put him through this as Ally will never leave, you need to sack him. Do the right thing. Dont rub his name in the dirt like your own.

Don

Believable2 Unbelievable2

15 Feb 2012 08:31:00
Hey people just a little thought i've had!
We are all asking the question Where has all the money gone? and rightly so but lets just think about this........
Season ticket money for this season.........£15m
Ticketus money......£25m
Jelavic transfer.......£6m
Paye money......£9m
Total .........£55m

Now all this cash has not seen the light of day yet which makes me think that Craig whyte has this money sitting in an account for one of two reasons.
Either sitting waitning on big tax case decision.If we win then HMRC appeal he turns and offers them say £25m as settlement or get nothing when liquidation looms?Then out of admin before march 31 to which he has another £30m to pay towards if it would cost as much as that(keeping in mind motherwell only got told to pay 6p on the £) and whatever is left goes towards playing staff and we still in with chance of europe, and debt free!
Option two he has not to be trusted and does a runner with said cash and some sort of consortium takes over a debt free club but yes possibly in 3rd div or something?

Would also like to know would HMRC not be down as an unsecured creditor on not able to knock back whatever admin people offer?

Appreciate some normal reply!


MAC_THE_GER

Believable0 Unbelievable0

Ed any thought on my last point or any others for that matter?

MAC_THE_GER {Ed001's Note - I don't know for sure as I am no expert, but clearly HMRC do have some worries or they would not have tried to place their own administrator in charge. If they were in a definite position of strength, with regard to being able to veto any CVA, I doubt they would feel the need to do so.}

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15 Feb 2012 08:08:00
boycot games, dont give Whyte anymore money,
as for creditors, dont accept anything less than the full amount due, dont be shafted while Whyte walks away with millions

Believable1 Unbelievable4

If we boycott games we may as well lock the gates behind us, it will definately go under at least if we go it gives us a fighting chance of somebody else trying to take over please look at the bigger picture, a fan consortium is gonna start soon to at least try , to help with a takeover.. craig+babybear

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15 Feb 2012 06:50:22
I think whyte is here to destroy us where has all the millions gone?? it was bad before he came but it's ten times worse now..I'm worried about liquidation.

Believable3 Unbelievable0

15 Feb 2012 06:25:19
OK lets see if we can fill IBROX and the surrounding area on Saturday if half the crowd that turned up at Manchester turn up that will show every one that WARP

Believable3 Unbelievable1

15 Feb 2012 05:31:45
Ok Whyte has shafted us . The man is a disgrace calls himself a rangers man my a..e 1 your a crook 2 you steal 3 you don't pay your tax in saying that you don't pay anybody 4 you have been caught lieing in court if a was a judge you would be jailed for 5 years .that would keep you out of the way . The mob you brought in much do you pay them for kissing your a..e . Why don't you just f..k off take your money let somebody else do it that has rangers in their heart just go nobody wants you .... Kenny

Believable2 Unbelievable0

15 Feb 2012 04:17:32
if we get out of administration this season will we get our 10 points back ?

Believable0 Unbelievable1

Ffs man were finished it ALL over were where Murray and Whyte wanted us .......les

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No...you are in admin...if you fail to pay the players their wages this month you will be deducted another 10points..it seems whyte has upset hmrc with his attitude..they will make an example of rangers which is a shame on their large amount of good supporters...good luck lads...gujo....Celtic fan

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Aye coz it makes sense to punish a team for goin into administration just to reverse that punishment after theyv tried to worm their way out of debt. A know it's the SPL we're talking about here but get real lol. Anyway the only way they'l be out of admin this season is if they go into liquidation

Mikey Bhoy

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No, unfortunately not :(

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No one with the sort of money gers owe
is going to step in,let face it crowds
of under 5000 are common in scotland at big games scots have lost interest at going to watch football sat sun fri mon

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Is this a wind up? Ha

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Course you will, you also get Jelavic back!

DazzaBhoy

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We don't get the 10 points back even if we were only in administration for a day! If we are still not out of it by next season then would start with -10 points

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15 Feb 2012 03:31:05
Just a thought here lads but it seems obvious that we were heading into administration at some point for the last few years. I am in no way trying to defend Craig Whyte but we were always going to chastise whoever took us into this situation as we feel that our clubs future is now threatened.



Tired bear

Believable4 Unbelievable1

The whole reason we are in administration is because CW hasn't been paying his tax bills on behalf of the club since his takeover in May amounting to £9million. He knew administration was inevitable - he always knows that in the outcome he will be the principal beneficiary of the situation - happy days for Craig Whyte....

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15 Feb 2012 01:55:05
we are now in a far worse state than before "whyte" became owner.every guy he has brought to the club has been a crook or the wrong kind of people to front a football club.people in behind the scene positions have been a pal or business partner of some sort."gordon grier"a partner in the administration company controlling us know,and an adviser to "whyte" before he purchased the club and them made a director.another director "gary withly" is a solicitor involved with buying and putting crystal palace the club into administration ans striping its assests.another guy another guy is "phil betts" how was a part owner of the company that comtrolls ticketus was made a director but left days before the deal for the ticket money went through."andrew ellis" another guy made director but has done nothing.two of these men have purchased clubs with the prospect of helping and have fail bigtime,infact but put them into adminastration.all this just show that "craig whyte" know the ship was sinking brfore he purchased it and how he intends to everything he can.the guy has "LIED" since day one .when he paid "murray" £1 for the club the deal was not to pay the be just to show his company had the money to cover it.when "whyte" put through his take over his company had £33 million in the bank,nowhere near the money needed.all the power peopla a ibrox a crooks and unless we voice our feeling before,during and after the game at the weekend the nothing is going to change.we need to get ever board member out and start again.plus we need the rangers suppporter trust to step in and ask were the £24 million season ticket money is,£13 million from this years season tickets and the £5.5 milllion for jelavic sale,the squad is the smallest ever so the wage bill can't be a problem.i think there is more to this than we are being told.i am not one for protesting but ther time has come.a protest before,during,after the weekend game.from the very start of the takeover i thought this guy was up to no good.how buys a club the size of rangers with all the money problems when you only have 33 million in one of his companies accounts ti cover the debt when says he will invest £25 million over 5 years on players.where was this money coming from.as far as i am lead to believe no one that a good reputation in business will not work with him and i have even heard some people saying he is hated in business circles.this guy has planed for this all the time that why he had these people in place.i for one will be protesting at ibrox before the weekend game."PLEASE SPREAD THE WORD"

Believable2 Unbelievable1

The protests should have started 8 months ago, I hate to say I told u so but I did. P.S. where is wullie and snowy they owe everyone something out his shop as he said Gary o'Connor was a cert to sign by 31st of Jan, more nonsense wullie?

The gers grim reaper

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15 Feb 2012 01:47:55
Craig shyte has proven to us all people that he is not a true supporter of our club... admin was a probability in the case of whoever took over because of murrays shogun approach a decade back... But f@ck me man what kind of person blatantly breaks the law by refusing to pay 9mill in PAYE while waiting the outcome of a p!ssing 50mill fraud case? So that 9 mill - maybe 2 mill upfront for jelavic - 24 mill of season tickets... That's 35 mill...ed what has he done with all that money? PaulRFC {Ed001's Note - to be fair, it is hardly blatantly breaking the law if you just simply don't have the money there to pay the bill! The club runs at a loss, it is not creating money to use to pay bills, it is losing money that is needed to pay them.}

Believable0 Unbelievable0

Ed wake up or are you towing the party line? the poster is correct he jhas stolen or at least hidden 35 mill plus ,demand where is it? {Ed001's Note - until the accounts are released, no one knows how much it was, nor where it has gone. I am just not going to cry about something I don't know about it, I prefer to wait and see the truth and then make my decision. The details will start emerging now the administrators are in, why can't you just wait and see? It is not like you can do anything about it anyway, why get upset about something that might not have happened that you have no effect on?}

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How can this guy sleep, not only is about to get most of the staff the sack but if he has not payed the PAYE does that not affect their pension credits meaning that the staff will need to make up this shortfall?

The Pilot!

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15 Feb 2012 01:45:59
Why doesnt everyone look back to last
year when the takover was taking place.
Do you all remember that Whyte was to
pay a larger amount for the club but due
to profits made, our debt to the bank was
reduced. At this time Johnston and several
other directors raised their concerns
regarding Mr Whyte, not once did we hear
from David Murray regarding his thoughts
about this man even though he promised
us all that he would only sell to someone
who would take the club forward. In fact
SDM lowered his price to Whyte to cover
the debt to the bank plus pay 1 pound
for his stake thus making it easier for
Whyte to gain control. Why did SDM not
listen to the concerns of his fellow directors
who he had trusted in the past? Why has
SDM kept quiet for so long regarding what
was happening at rangers since the takeover
as everyone from former directors, the
BBC, the papers and the fans could see
what was happening at Ibrox. Infact almost
since the takeover people on this site
have been talking about the dodgy dealings
that have been going on and that Whyte
was going to put us into administration
yet SDM is shocked and suprised about
it. Pull the other one. Also what was SDM
doing at Murray Park a few weeks ago
as I dont believe the " I was there to see
the doctor" story. Something stinks here
but theres no chance of getting the truth
from Whyte or SDM.

Believable2 Unbelievable0

15 Feb 2012 01:19:31
Anyone who can please attend the game on Saturday!! The team need the fans more than ever!!!!!!!!!!

Believable1 Unbelievable0

Not until whyte is out,then get behind the team

Agree1 Disagree1

15 Feb 2012 00:26:07
for sale

concrete tunnel southern Libya


this may interest you mr whyte

Believable6 Unbelievable4

That tunnel sounds good not for that clown, for me . i will follow rangers to the moon if i have to. i work in dundee , when i came in on monday the whole lot off them had black armbands on. the dundee fans tell me , the fans must fight now i do admire them. the arabs and the celtic fans are loving it. lets fill ibrox every game and get behind the lads. get off the backs of the lads . edu always gets it hard , come on give him a break .

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He'll need something more than that if he can't show on paper to the fans where £40 million in the last season has gone

Rikkisixx

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15 Feb 2012 00:22:33
Hi rangers fans
Just like to say i hope ur club get out of administration soon as possible.
Ur a massive club to go to suffer to long..This us from a liverpool fan

Paul ynwa 77

Believable14 Unbelievable10

Thanks mate soon as we get Whyte out the. Better cheers ... Kenny

Agree1 Disagree0

Cheers mate

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Cheers Paul ynwa 77 thanks for that
Iam Legend

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15 Feb 2012 00:14:39
Memo to Craig Whyte hope you can sleep well at night and please dont tell the average Rangers supporter that you have the best interests of the club at heart,cause anyone with a brain would find it impossible to believe you,and with the recent information that you have failed to pay PAYE AND VAT since you arrived at the club is a total joke so now apart from all the other debt issue we know that you in the space of 9 months have failed to pay a bill valued at 9m, Really hope you have the b---- to turn up at Ibrox on Saturday

Believable5 Unbelievable4

15 Feb 2012 00:09:59
Memo to SDM just how can you sleep at night? and please dont supply any guff about the EBT'S and the tax case not being settled yet,we both know that the likely outcome is that we will lose it just a question of when and how much,but the more important question is just exactly how you can justify selling the club to this Crook and even now sit back and suggest you are surprised.
You should lose you title as well as fred the bank

Believable8 Unbelievable1

15 Feb 2012 00:04:37
Firstly lets deal with SDM remarks about how he is surprised at the club going into administration, bit crass David given you got us in this position in the first place,and despite the fact that the EBT case has still to be settled do we really think we will win in a battle with hrmc given they are prepared to keep appealing if we do,and have also refused to even agree to any settlement outwith a court case. If you believe that guys you are from another planet.
So yes major debt possibility to do with the EBT'S but then we move onto this so called Whyte Knight who rode into town,and tells us he firstly invested 33m of his own money,then he borrowed 24.5m via Season Ticket Sales also had the current season ticket revenue but cannot explain or wont explain where it has all gone and thats leaving aside 5/6m for Jelavic and to crown it all if we still think he will rescue this great club just ask yourself would you trust someone who in the current 9 months he has been at the club has run up a debt of 9m due to unpaid PAYE AND VAT
If there was any justice in society the current owner and the past owner and directors who are responsible for this mess should be held accountable,for this mess

Believable6 Unbelievable0

I fully expect us to go into Liquidation, as HMRC will not let this go, if they lose it they will just appeal the case and drag it out for several years. The only way to get the HMRC Monkey off our back is to go to the wall. I firmly believe there are people with money waiting in the wings for that exact scenario to happen and step in and buy us. It may be the only way in the long run......Rangers till I Die.

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Sad but true . all the small folk and the goverment lose and the crook whyte makes money

Agree1 Disagree0

14 Feb 2012 23:53:12
Does anyone else find it slightly ironic that we sing God Save The Queen at the end of matches but now she might just be the one that finishes us off?

CC

Believable12 Unbelievable6

Eh no. She doesn't run HMRC personally. The treasury run it within government. So she won't finish us off as you put it, therefore i don't find it ironic.

Agree4 Disagree7

Why dont the govt bail Rangers out the banks are to blame,and caused this whole financial mess,wiping millions of owners,directors shares portfolios,and now blaming them. what is £49 million to the govt/banks, i.e peanuts.

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It is ironic as it's Her Majesty's Revenue and Customs.

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The banks are not to blame for the mess Rangers are in! Are you for real thinking this? The mess has been caused by years of spending beyong their means, before the financial crisis of 2008.

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Clown first it is the Chelsea supporters now its the banks lol

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Message for Original poster. If Our Great club is found guilty of not paying Taxes. It is not the fault of Her Majesty. It is not the fault of HMRC. It is not the fault of our fantastic fans who no doubt work and pay their tax bills and follow their club through Thick and Thin. It is however the fault of Sir David Murray, Craig Whyte and every Director of our club who have sat back knowing where our Great club was heading. I have been a Rangers Man all my life and will continue to be to my last breath. even if we have to reform under another name.However, I am ashamed at some of the things that are being said about our Club. I was willing to give Craig Whyte a chance to guide us out of this mess, but after yesterdays news about being £9m more in debt since he took over I have started smelling coffee. The great traditions of our club lie in tatters. Who in their right mind would ever want to do any bussiness with us again under the present ownership. I wonder if Murray, Whyte and the rest of the chancers involved slept well last night. I think we all know the answer to that. I do know that I never slept a Bloody Wink.
WE ARE STILL THE PEOPLE !

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14 Feb 2012 23:45:13
Ah, those wonderful chaps from the Ramgers Supporters Trust again not understanding what is happending.

Blaming Murray for everything is being a bit disingenuous.

It is an absolute fact that Murray operated Employee BenefitTrusts over a 10 year period.

However, the tax avoided is £24m. The interest is £12m and penalties £18m. Therefore the actual tax avoided over 10 years is £24m, which averages out at £2.4m a year.

This average of £2.4m a season is something that Rangers are disputing with HMRC.

WHAT IS NOT IN DISPUTE on the evidence of the administrators is that Whyte has failed to pay £9m of PAYE, NI and VAT to HMRC in a 9 MONTH PERIOD. There is NO dispute that Rangers were due to pay this.

To me, this is far worse than the EBTs.

Believable7 Unbelievable3

14 Feb 2012 23:40:39
Ed do you know if season tickets are now going to be invalid?, and has no one else noticed whytes amazing resemblance to the aptly named Alan b**tard!!! {Ed001's Note - season tickets are being honoured at the moment they have said.}

Believable0 Unbelievable1

14 Feb 2012 23:21:30
could it be possible that we will be liquadised and then Craig Whyte will buy the assets back using new company name maybe Rangers 2012 and be Debt Free

Believable5 Unbelievable4

14 Feb 2012 22:31:32
there are some right desperate clowns here. so, craig whyte (billionaire) took the club into administration just because of the last years vat, nic, and tax dues? a mere nine million? and none of this has to do with the big tax case. dream on. if that was and is the case he is the biggest shyster ever to be associated with any glasgow club. he took rangers into admin for nine million? what? where is the ticket money. dream on fools. crook. craig whyte you are a crook. sue me - peter anthony donachy, frankfurt, germany. i got no money but might be able to raise a pound.

Believable5 Unbelievable2

14 Feb 2012 22:12:04
Ed as we are now in admin is it up to the administrator wether we go in to liquidation? Can I also ask your opinion how likely liquidation is.thanks. PaulRFC {Ed001's Note - it is more up to the creditors, if they refuse to accept a deal, the club will go into liquidation. It is unlikely to happen but not impossible.}

Believable0 Unbelievable0

The only ones i think would try to prevent a deal taking place is HMRC. If this was a game of poker that they were playing i'd say Craig Whyte is holding four aces in his hands. Either accept a deal - if not, we go to the wall - you (HMRC) get nothing.

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Unless i am mistaken would it not be better for the HMRC to accept a deal because if we go into liquidation every other creditor gets payed before they do?

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I am a Celtic fan,the sad thing here is none of you are condemming this crook who is representing your club ,grow a pair and get him out then rescue your club

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