Rangers Banter Archive February 18 2015

 

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18 Feb 2015 22:34:46
Got bad vlbes here think these shysters. Will stich us up somehoo we as fans will turn even mare away fae the team we love, that leaves them wa aw or most of the assets, then we will be lucky if we av a rangers at aw.

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This has got to be John Brown surely?

John?

i am george

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Cashleys now owns the rights to Rangers badge. Just read it in the herald.

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{Ed039's Note - He does not own the rights to it, he has security over it, it was part of the terms of the most recent loan - ie, the first tranche of £5m. He has security of certain "intellectual properties" which includes the badge, this security is released when/if the loan is repaid)

Cheers .my mistake.

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18 Feb 2015 21:17:45
Anyone know what the hold up is now I was told today that is was because they can't get a Marquee in time, but find that hard to believe must be loads of them available this time of year!

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18 Feb 2015 18:45:22
We have got what we wanted the EGM is now being held where it should have been from the start
Please don't play into the hands of these people by doing anything to give them an excuse to cancel it
We can now see light at the end of a long horrible tunnel let's not snuff it out

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Couldn't agree more get your proxy in and save the club by 2 nd March stay away, the eyes of the British media will be on us after the London fiasco the meeting will only take tops 20 min if that, so why go just to shout abuse at them, do it at the games if you have to. We are so near Don't Mess it up for all of us Think about it it's what they want Follow Follow Bears!

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18 Feb 2015 16:48:43
Inter arrived today and are to train at celtic park tonight. Will this headline be printed? CELTIC TO HAND INTER MILAN KEYS TO PARK HEAD AHEAD OF EUROPA LEAGUE TIE.

Our newspapers are something else. Making headlines out of nothing to make our club seem as if its harming scottish football.

http://www.dailyrecord.co.uk/sport/football/football-news/rangers-hand-inter-milan-keys-5169102

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{Ed039's Note - Its complete nonesense mate, when Celtic go to Italy for the return leg another Italian side will give Celtic use of their facilities and they will also get to train on the pitch 24 hours before kick off. There is obviously column inches needing filled)

I believe Kenny McDowall offered to help with their coaching at MP but was turned down politely

i am george

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Wherever they train, it won't have an effect on the result, in fact, they could train at Cathkin Park and Inter will still win. Can't believe you can get odds against them tomorrow night.

Bet already placed.

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Naz inter would not even need to train to beat them IMO,

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19 Feb 2015 14:21:31
Simple hospitality and sportsmanship ,nothing sinister.

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18 Feb 2015 09:42:06
Heard on the radio this morning that the board have came out with the excuse that the EGM was cancelled due to 'unknown threats'. This is all absolute rubbish that they are laying down here portraying themselves as victims.

I would urge all shareholders to vote by proxy (I know this has been mentioned many times now). I wouldn't be surprised if they cancelled the meeting due to all of this fabricated rubbish. A fire alarm let of in the stadium would even facilitate their needs to adjourn the meeting.

Paranoid. maybe, but who isn't after all of the dross peddled by this board of snake oil salesmen!

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Slurs blue, don't put ideas into there heads, lol lol.

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Still worry that there is still something more unexpected to come from this board!!

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I think with the uncertainty surrounding the EGM, it would be prudent for all associations RST, Rangers First, SoS, King, Three Bears etc, to get around the table and work out a strategy for the meeting, so that there will be no disruption. Deter shareholders and other interested parties from attending and ensure only those who matter are there. Perhaps they could steward the event as well to make sure behaviour is impeccable and there are no excuses to cancel. Remember it would not be beyond this board to put in agitators to upset proceedings. I am sure an announcement on the front steps of Ibrox once the meeting was concluded in a fitting manner, would be warmly greeted. circa, "The Rebels have won, The Rats are out".

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18 Feb 2015 09:11:18
Well that's a surprise, the GM has been moved to Ibrox but wait for it on another date, The excuses, firstly the move to a London venue because the people they work for shouted at them at the AGM and lack "decorum", secondly the move to Ibrox because of threatsto two London hotels by persons unknown. My GGot they are like teenage school boys getting caught smoking, its everybody's fault bar theirs, same as why
the business and Club are on their knees eh.
I wonder if these " threats" were reported to the Police, I'd say that its a serious matter the Police would be interested in. I wonder if they are the same as the "attacks" on Llambias in two Glasgow Hotels?

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18 Feb 2015 09:43:48
Of course it is. Its all manufactured rubbish to suit their ends. They are stalling. but to what end?

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18 Feb 2015 10:25:13
I reckon that between £100,000 and £150,000 a week that leaves our Club is the answer. They reckon they "burn" through around £2 million a month still despite cost cutting. The player wages are £550,000 per month (£6.5m per year) and surely this is the biggest expense? But no it isn't no paying wages are £750,000 per Month, who gets this? How can the non playing staffs wages be more than the oversized over paid playing squad?

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18 Feb 2015 10:30:38
Can anybody attend the EGM.

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18 Feb 2015 11:12:33
Any shareholder can, I'm guessing you ain't but II'm flattered and amazed at how much you all care about Rangers. So much so that you would take time off, if you have a job that is, to attend our EGM. This has proved beyond any doubt that hundteds if not thousands who support our less successful rivals across the City are obsessed with Rangers, I suppose that's what happens when you are second best, you obsess about your more successful rival, I wwouldn't know though I've always been on the other side of the fence. Maybe that explains why I wouldn't waste a minute of my time worrying about Selik or on their forums.

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Rm gers a few of us mentioned this a while back eh, the wages only account for a third of overturn, so where does the other two thirds go, any professional team would love to have a third of turnover going on wages, but not our club, let's get these people out.

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18 Feb 2015 12:23:12
That's true George mate, and laying off normal workers to save £20 or £30 grand a year. Either we have 300 workers on £25 grand a year or somebody is making fortunes. We have not got 300 employees on the non playing staff, probably not even 100 so that's about £2.5 million a year, there's another £100 grand a WEEK to account for. I can't wait to see the consultancy fees for Llambias, Leech ect ect before they got their jobs my guess is £25 grand a week.

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@3 I'll take yi in as my guest son if you're that desperate.You can carry ma coat, how's that?

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RM I take it banter shouldn't be on this page. I'm sure if we were in the position you find your team in some people may have had a pop at us. Enjoy your meeting and hopefully you get what you want.

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RM Gers

We are burning way over 100k in wages and money transfers out of Rangers bank through this boards mismanagement and the continuing dodgy deals that Rangers has been subject to for 3 years. I am reminded of whyte stringing along the Jelavic sale for weeks then accepting the deal that gave him the largest cash transfer instantly just before Admin was announced, he turned down a bigger offer from West Ham as the payments were staged and he was getting less up front. This board I feel are stalling weekly to do exactly the same money theft from Rangers before the are thrown out.

Expext a mountain of paperwork though I suspect mostly shredded

i am george

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19 Feb 2015 15:40:50
FU and Bhoychild, don't you understand that the time for banter has long passed, it is now a fight to save an institution?,, don't answer them chaps

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20 Feb 2015 18:39:59
I agree 100% George it will take months if not years to unravel it all cause they will have tried to cover their tracks mate.

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18 Feb 2015 02:27:27
Watched the movie Der Untergang (Downfall). Brilliant movie if you have not seen it. Watching Hitler and his cronies struggle to survive while so convinced they could snatch a victory just reminded me of this inept lot running Rangers. I think they actually believe that the supporters/shareholders are really that gullible that they don't know what is going on. If I was MA I would be asking where all the money was coming from to even contemplate staging the EGM in London?
Why all the delays? Simple, to buy time to shred all the evidence, transfer any moveable assets while covering the paper trails associated with this. I'm still not convinced on King but this lot are in their death throes. The kindest thing would be to give them a good stiff drink then allow them to commit seppuku but I forgot, honour and integrity is not on this lots agenda.

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It's a good movie mate I've seen it a few times you should Go on YouTube and search hitler Rangers there is a few funny parody videos like helicopter Sunday. 🚁

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18 Feb 2015 09:33:54
Password, with all that talk about shredding evidence I thought for a second there you were referring to the last time King and Murray were on the board. I think it's safe to say that honour and integrity are not on the agenda at all, whether it's this board or King and his cohorts you support. No matter who wins at the EGM, the only thing certain is that our club will still be run by lying cheating ah#les at the end of it.

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18 Feb 2015 10:14:45
Pauline, surely even you King haters can't support this lot, they are farcical. If it isn't this board and it isn't King and co, what is it, admin and liquidation again?
Maybe King and Co are as bad as you say, maybe not time will answer that but surely they are a better option than a board who openly ridicule their shareholders and customers in addition to running the business very, very poorly so much so they need to hawk off all of the assets for loans to survive.

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18 Feb 2015 12:13:15
@3 What have I said that makes you think I support the board? I'm just not kidding myself on about the King alternative, that's all. Whoever wins the EGM it will not be good news. What's so difficult to grasp about that? The only people getting all excited about DK are the same ones that cheered in CW when it was already old news that he was a fraud. Some people need a hero too much and will whitewash even the most glib and shameless of liars in the hope of getting one. That's what we're witnessing with everyone frothing at the mouth welcoming back a guy who claims he was looking the other way when the biggest club in Scotland was being run into a black hole.

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Agreed, Paulineblue. and the only thing worse than another spiv making a power play is the gormless so-called fans telling everyone off for pointing it out.

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18 Feb 2015 13:35:55
@5 Absolutely. I've been called a 'King-hater' but actually I don't hate King, I just despair about the fans who try their best to ignore the truth about him. Some people never learn.

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Paulineblue72 this club needs a starting point to get back to health and so the absolute priority has got to be to rid ourselves of the cancer that is this board first.

I share your concerns about king and co as do countless other bears on here but if he can bring about the downfall of these baskets then that's the start the club so badly craves.

A long hard road ahead yes, but at least we will be able to have hope something that's just not possible at present. King or whoever else ultimately controls the club will surely be scrutinised like never before by the support and rightly so. He may not be the the right Man long term but he's the right Man for now.

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Cicsy,

A much more welcome and measured response, which I believe represents the true position of most fans. People will deal with King as and when he becomes a problem, this doesn't mean that people like him.

Churchill made a lousy peacetime prime minister too.

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18 Feb 2015 15:35:18
Cicsy, that would all be nice if true. But I'm not so optimistic that fans will start to scrutinise King once he's in. What makes you think that will happen? The time to scrutinise King is NOW. What is his business plan? Does he honestly expect fans to stump up half the funds to build and maintain a team capable of winning the SPL and doing OK in the CL? That's what he's suggested. What about the investors he claimed last year he had lined up to pump in £20mill on top of his £30m - why no mention of them anymore? The list goes on and on. These are all questions that are relevant NOW, not once he's managed to worm his way in on the basis of what may be simply (yet again) empty promises. I don't see anything that leads me to expect scrutiny. Instead I see poster after poster on here enthusiastically trotting out his lies that he 'won a favourable settlement' in SA, when in fact he is a convicted criminal who only paid up when he realised the alternative was to spend the rest of his lying days in jail. We can start asking questions later eh? Deja vu.

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18 Feb 2015 16:40:12
A gormless so called fan, you are a tool mate but well suited to your pal she's a bit arrogant and aloof like you. You do not know me at all and after you calling me gormless its better that you never meet me.I can make my own mind on any subject mate, I have a degree in Applied Computing amongst many other qualifications and an IQ of 156, not too bad for a gormless so called fan. The point I made to Pauline or number whatever as she likes to address people was King is the best available option and unless you all have crystal balls you do not know what he will do only time will tell, maybe you should get matching tents and become clairvoyants and predict the future for money if you are so good at it. One things for sure decrying people on here who are willing to put their money and time into attempting to rid us of the idiots we have in our boardroom definitely is not helping. I also asked for her idea of a solution because I don't see anyone else attempting to save our Club, do you?

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18 Feb 2015 19:37:54
@10 What's not helping is treating King like a hero swooping in to save us when in fact there are big gaping holes in his manifesto for change that go without scrutiny. That's all I'm saying. We should have scrutinised CW before cheering him in. We should have scrutinised CG before cheering him in. Instead we welcomed them in way too easily as we were desperate to believe they were the long-awaited good news for us. I don't think anyone would disagree with that. So why are we letting DK off the hook from scrutiny? Oh yeah, because we're desperate to believe he's good news. Big red flag right there bud. And by the way, a degree in Applied Computing qualifies as gormless don't you know.

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Paulineblue72, Your biggest problem is stating the facts as they are. Unfortunately, there are too many posters on here that are blinkered and, if the truth be told, that is our biggest problem. I am in total agreement that we need a complete overhaul, but we must be on our guard against false prophets. If that makes you pro Ashley then so am I, again if the truth be told we are pro Rangers.
Disexpat has commented on certain dissenters, but in every walk of life these people have a voice, normally very vocal but not too bright. Just remember, we are bluenoses and entitled to voice our opinion.

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Paulineblue72, I obviously can't convince you king is right for us and I wouldn't presume to attempt to either. You must however concede that the leaches who have been sucking the life blood from our club should be removed regardless of the consequences.
These same people have reduced an institution to a complete laughing stock and who's very presence in our boardroom is a cause of insult and embarrassment to All of us.

We are desperate for change but I don't think most fans see king as a savour more a means to an end, like I said in my last post in order to start again we have to take the first step.

We have been so badly burned that no matter who comes in as an investor will be viewed with suspicion. If the last few years have taught us anything it's that we should be extra vigilant who we entrust to run our club so I totally understand your scepticism. That said we have to trust someone and for the here and now Dave king and co represent not our best option but our only option.

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18 Feb 2015 20:46:26
You make too many assumptions Pauline I don't treat anyone as a hero and being from Motherwell I knew from day one CW was an asset stripper and that he would hand pick a "partner" to buy out of liquidation in CG. That's what they do and unfortunately everyone involved with CGs buy out is the same and MA is the king pin he is the UKs most successful asset stripper as his latest victims in Ayrshire are the latest in a long line. Because I and 19000 other fans back the only other show in town does not make us thick or easily led, I've started two businesses from scratch and know all about survival and that what this is. If they do not succeed we are finished, if MA gets the assets who would buy us out of admin or liquidation without any assets? Not a soul, and we don't exist. I reckon in another moth or two at the outset our board will draw down on the other £5m loan with Ibrox as security following that and poorer ST sales we would be in admin before the start of next season, what genuine Rangers fan wants that?

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Paulineblue72, The sad fact is we don't have too many people willing to invest the time and money to get the club back to where we belong, DK might not be the answer, but we do not know this, but what we do know is the current crowd are definitely not.So if it comes to pass that DK gets control we will judge him on his deeds.Its as simple as that.

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Mr king nor the three bears can make any announcements of there plans until they see under the bonnet, Ffs,

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RM Gers

I couldn't agree more

Persons like Pauline and Paddy are completely ignoring the fact we owe 10MILLION POUNDS whilst running at a loss of 8MILLION POUNDS

This means we CANNOT possibly pay these loans back which in turn means when they run out in 2/3 months and there are no funds coming in at all over the summer we then borrow 5/10MILLION against Ibrox it is then just a countdown by ashley till he puts us in admin and pockets Ibrox and MP plus all our other secured assets.

As you rightly say we then become a completely unattractive investment like we were before when the Big Tax case was hanging over us and this means we go out of existence forever.

Ashley and Greens long term game plan was this from day one. Why do you think Green pops up supporting Ashley recently? Plus why do you think that certain Asian cr**ks pop up saying they want to but Rangers ALL linked to Charles Green from the Lawyer involved with Margerita/Blue Pitch to the cricket guy and worst of all Ritfi the biggest cr**k of them all. Easdale will sell to one of these cr**ks after thrown out at EGM just to be a thorn in Kings side and try to still tarnish Rangers FC

When Pauline n Paddy start looking closer at all these crooks they can maybe stop trying to bad mouth King who is supported by a huge majority of Rangers fans and importantly decent honest businessmen like 3Bears John Gilligan and many others. Are we all crooks too by association?

Pair of idiots ignore them

i am george

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I am George, great minds think alike right enough, my thoughts on your last post is bang on.

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Great post until the last two paragraphs. My interpretation of the posts are mainly that they are wary of, in particular, Dave King and Paul Murray.
Your comments on the 3Bears and John Gilligan are spot on and look forward to seeing them all on our board.
Maybe then progress will be made. One thing is certain, it will not be an over-night fix to put us on an even keel. Dave King is taking on a massive task and needs all the assistance and luck possible to put us back together.

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@14, ". being from Motherwell I knew from day one CW was an asset stripper and that he would hand pick a "partner" to buy out of liquidation in CG."
Ball cocks.
Maybe it's you who should be setting up a tent with your crystal ball.

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19 Feb 2015 11:57:44
Dearie me, how predictable. All the usual suspects frothing at the mouth and accusing me of saying stuff I haven't said just because I dare, as billyb has said, to tell the facts as they are. Pathetic.

@14 if you're not thick then do yourself a favour and actually read a post properly before you respond to it. As I made clear to you in my post @4 above, I don't support this board. I'm just saying King isn't necessarily good news either. What's so objectionable about that? I'm not saying people shouldn't vote for him. I'm saying before we lend him our support we should be asking him hardball questions about his future business plan as well as his role on both SDM's and CW's boards in the past. But we're not doing that. We're giving him an easy ride. We're letting him and PM come out with wild statements about "overspending" on the team, and funding 50% of the whole enterprise with money from ordinary fans. Why are we not asking them to explain those ideas in more detail? Are they actually serious or just selling us dreams like so many others have in the past? Why not ask them? You said it yourself - we're "desperate". To me that's not an excuse.

There is a risk you know that he'll come in, overspend, try to dodge tax . and we all know where that leads. That's all I'm saying. It's a risk. So why not ask him difficult questions about it? Tax dodging is what DK does. Proven fact. In SA and on both SDM's and CW's boards that's what happened. Does anyone have evidence of an enterprise King was involved in that HASN'T been found out for dodging tax? So I'm just saying we should be asking him questions, not presuming that he's mended his ways and that he will be good for us this time, when he was absolutely the worst possible kind of news last time he was involved.

Again, I repeat: It's not so much that I don't like King as I don't like the prevailing attitude of "Let's just get King in and if he's full of cr#p we can deal with it later." We should be asking him difficult questions now. That doesn't means I like the current board or that I don't know what they're up to. Ffs.

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Pauline surely mr king and the three bears must be givin time to look at everything that's happened (under the bonnet) before they should make any statements.

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19 Feb 2015 13:45:23
@22 Yes exactly, George. How CAN they make statements without having looked under the bonnet? But they have been making statements - about funding a team capable of challenging for the title every year, about doing that with 50% input from fans. How have they worked that one out? And statements about possibly ripping up MA contracts. How can they dangle that hope in front of us without having seen the contracts? And statements like having 'documentary evidence' from SA that will satisfy the sfa that he can actually sit on the board. Exactly what evidence is he talking about? Etc etc etc. That's the kind of questions we should be asking him. Demanding answers to statements that just don't seem to add up. Instead of risking being taken in yet again by false promises. What on earth is so objectionable about that?

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Pauline our club can't stand any more time without this mob being removed, I think asking mr king for statements is pointless ( at this moment in time) let's wait until e.g.m. Is finished, he can't say nowt until he is in power, ie wins the meeting.

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19 Feb 2015 15:46:46
Pauline. do you not realise that Dave King doesn't need to do this, he, s wealthy and happy in SA, He wants to sdave our club, so much so that he is willing to come and work hard to do so, He warned us all about Cw and pleaded with Murray not to sell, he had tax issues in Sa but that's dealt with, you don't know the man and have no right to call him names

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19 Feb 2015 16:21:02
George the exact same approach was taken towards CG. "We're desperate, let him buy it and we'll ask questions later. How bad can it be?" That went well didn't it. I'm only saying considered decisions usually lead to less regrets than panicky ones. It's not really a controversial thing to say.

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Pauline cw and cg and the whole lot of there posse have no connection to our club until it needed robbed"once cw got agreement with high court in Edinburgh to use duff and phelps we new it could only end one way(like we now have) the diffrence now is we have rangers fans willing to try to help, ie king the three bears, one thing I think they can garentee is they will be doing it for the love of the club, not to scam us at every farts end, like is currently happening .

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Pauline we can only hope it's third time lucky eh, I would rather have change than be a midd table team either trying to avoid relegation, or in fact being relegated, as for the current board and there master what have they done in there time that other bears could not have done?

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19 Feb 2015 18:52:17
George, that's right CW and CG had no connection with the club. DK and PM do have previous connections with the club. They helped run it into liquidation remember? And they did that through the same reckless "overspending" that they're now bragging is the only way forward again. If that's the kind of thing you don't mind being done "for the love of the club" then we will have to agree to disagree. I've had enough of that kind of love thanks very much.

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Paulineblue72, when were the sdm board guilty of tax dodging?

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19 Feb 2015 19:14:51
D King has already stated that Murray led the board to believe he was using his own money, they didn't know he had an arrangement with the bank, also remember DK giving Rangers 20mill? Murray hasn't denied he did tell them it was his cash, he copuld have sued DK nfor making that statement but didn't, Murray ran Rangers as his own, he was all powerful, and gave it away despite people like dK trying to stop him

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19 Feb 2015 19:38:19
Cicsy some of the EBTs were found to be illegal by the FTTT. That's very old news now.

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19 Feb 2015 20:37:29
Tommy you're telling yourself fairy tales bud. What did DK ever do to try to stop SDM? Or CW for that matter? Let's think carefully about his recent statement that SDM told him his personal wealth could cover the overspending by the old board. What that means (if he's not just lying) is that DK was definitely aware of the overspending. And he knew that the bank wasn't backing it. Think about that. What did he try to do about it? Did he ask SDM for proof that his personal wealth could cover it? Did he inform the other shareholders that the club was now out on a limb beyond bank credit and solely reliant on SDM's word that he could foot the bill personally? No. He didn't. He did none of those things. Stop making things up to cover for him as if he's your best pal or something. It really is astonishing.

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Pauline, You can post all night and never get through to certain people. Good luck, as I have gave up, more important issues in my life.

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Paulineblue72, as I recall Rangers were cleared in the fttt and only found guilty of not disclosing the details to the spl/sfa. Also try not to be too condescending with your replies.

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20 Feb 2015 09:33:38
Cicsy you only recall it like that because I'm guessing you didn't look any deeper than the spin of the "victory" headlines and the club's own press release about the decision. If you actually read the judgment itself you can find out the actual truth very easily. I had this out with someone on here previously at great length. They thougt the same as you that we'd been 'cleared' by the judgment. I gave them a link to the judgment and even the numbers of the paragraphs where you can read in the judge's own words that some of the ebt's were unlawful. In the UTT decision judgment it also makes it clear that we didn't appeal those. So it's an established fact that SDM was found guilty of dodging tax and the club accepted that and didn't appeal it. That's not an opinion it's a fact. Why not download the judgments and read them for yourself, they are freely available on HMCTS website.

I apologise if I come across as condescending to you, but I find the level of denial amongst our fans exasperating. Unless we accept the truth abut what led us into this situation we will just end up repeating it. That's what we're witnessing with the red carpet being rolled out for two guys who were on the board when the club was last running dodgy tax schemes.

Billyb you're right mate, this has taken up too much of my life over the past few days. This will be my last post in this thread. I think I've made my point, based on facts not fairy stories.

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Pauline cherrio pal, I hope you do come back in a couple of years and admit you were wrong in re mr king a the new people running our club.

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20 Feb 2015 16:24:33
George you've completely and utterly missed the point of everything I said above. Never mind.

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20 Feb 2015 19:00:14
@20 I am from Motherwell and everyone knows what CW was I can garuntee you that, billionaire my @rse. Are you like paddy n Pauline too, you don't know me at all. The first thing you doto find out about any business man is a Director check at companies house its not rocket science. As for Whyte I knew his game and that he did not have the money to buy Rangers, he couldn't have raised £1.8 million legitly never mind £18 million, I thought he was a front for a group of asset strippers, which may still prove to be true. I will tell you one thing though I never call anyone a liar unless I'm certain, and you can't be about me simply because you have no clue about me at all, when I don't know about a subject I keep my mouth shut, its always the best way. By the way my boycott of Ibrox started the day CW took over, and I will renew my ST when all of his colleagues leave our Club, hopefully that's on March 6th.

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20 Feb 2015 19:16:19
@21 if you were as clever as you think you are you would realise that the AIM have rules about their market and price sensativity, also until ANY group taking over our Board will need to see the damage done first before announcing their plans. King and co can't make accurate plans until they see exactly what needs done and brace yourself it will be plenty. I will make a suggestion, if you are wrong I suggest you write to King and his fellow requisitioner Murray and apologize for being wring and slandering them as well as whoever on here you have called thick which I'm guessing will again be plenty. Other people decide what type of person you are and what qualities or weaknesses you have. People who self proclaim themselves are usually nothing to write home about. Expat, billyb and your good self have called my intelligenceinto question. I have never called anyone thick, even when they are, its not nice. I am happy with my level of iintelligence, my son has just got 8 A's in his GCSE's out of 8 and is going on to study politics at University, which he obviously inherited from his Mother as his Father is thick/not too bright and gormless

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