Rangers Banter Archive July 19 2012

19 Jul 2012 22:23:41
Thoughts go out to Claudio Reyna and his family. Losing a child must be the hardest thing in the world. RIP wee man.

CeltStu

Tragic mate....it really does just make it only a game of fitba.

Tragic. Couldn't even start to imagine the heartache. Thoughts to the Reyna family.

Happy Sheep

Heartfelt sympaties to the reyna family...dont know how i would cope if my wee boy died
A sad loss of one so young

19 Jul 2012 21:43:15
Ed what's the script with insolvency law?
Are we allowed all the old club badges mottos brands colours etc,..? Who police's insolvency law? Do they wait for a complainant?
Is the club being over confident, a bit arrogant by trying to get away with this issue? {Ed039's Note - Honestly I dont think you are, but surely somebody would have noticed. Anybody else noticed that there are versions of the strip with and without sponsors, i know alcohol wasnt allowed on the kids kits, but its adult versions as well, does that mean the sponsor is going. There are so many questions we need answers to, HOPEFULLY find out next Saturday)

The new strips are called 2012 strips not 2012-2013 season strips which is odd.

On liquidation, Wimbledon under insolvency law had to change everything as its a new club. They had to have a new name MKDons, new badges/ logos , new strip designs and colours. Why Rangers wouldn't have to do the same is baffling. But then again Rangers have always believed themselves a special case, this is what gets them into trouble.
The club officially are not allowed to have the name 'Rangers' anywhere. The RFC and red lion on a football are not allowed and the light blue colour is to be changed to another colour.

Yes there's 2011-2012 strips, then the 2012 strips but not 2012-2013 strips, which is very very odd, strips have always had both dates of a season mentioned in the past.
It's sale of goods law. If Rangers aren't there in 2013 there is an argument for refunds!

& you could buy the previous strips without sponsors as well
I've got a couple

bil72

@1 & 3 this is the email i received from the megastore
£10 OFF New 2012/13 Home Shirts Plus FREE Delivery
and bill 72 is correct you can have with or without Tennents on there
get a grip
JG

JG

19 Jul 2012 20:14:42
if ian black was to sign for us in div 3, could you see him as a future ranges captain ?

wouldnt have seen me writing this post a yar ago lol
BALLYBOY

Dont know about future captain bud, but i was on this site a few months back (before we had even been linked with him) arguing the point of how much a great signing Black would be. hopefully it turns out to be the case that we do get to sign him

Gary W.A.T.P

Ian will play for us and will become a legend. Spoke with him 4 weeks ago at a familly party he is looking to make a name for himself as not only a tough tacckler but someone who can fight a corner and not only that can become a legend which he would if we go 3,2,1 dustybin!! Because that is what will be left when we arive back in the SPL.

No he wont:No you did not:No he cant.Legend? The bar has fell since Laudrup,Gascoine,Baxter etc.

He has a habit of getting sent off, but as long as he 'screws the nut' then i will be happy to cheer him on for us. I like a player who plays with passion for his team, not some reckless person who just flies into tackles.

19 Jul 2012 09:48:24
ED when is the Rangers app going to be updated for the iphone? {Ed039's Note - The official Rangers app?)

19 Jul 2012 19:51:02
Rangers unseeded in Scottish Communities League Cup draw

19 July 2012 14:26 BST

Kilmarnock are the current holders of the Scottish Communities League Cup, having defeated Celtic in the 2011/12 final. Pic: � SNS Group
Rangers will be in the draw for the first round of the Scottish Communities League Cup when it is made on Friday.

The Third Division side will be unseeded as they enter the competition. 29 teams from the Scottish Football League�s three divisions will be joined in the draw by SPL club Dundee.

Rangers� participation is dependent on the Scottish Football Association granting Charles Green�s newco the necessary membership to play football.

Alex Salmond will conduct the draw, which will take place at Stenhousemuir's Ochilview Park at 12.30pm on Friday.

First round games are currently scheduled to be played on Saturday, August 4.

The seven Scottish Premier League clubs not participating in European competition this season will enter at the second round stage. Celtic, Dundee United, Hearts, Motherwell and St Johnstone join in the third round.

The League Cup trophy has returned to Ibrox a record 27 times since the competition�s formation in the 1946/47 season. Celtic have won on 14 occasions, followed by Aberdeen (five), Hearts (four), Hibernian, Dundee, East Fife (three) and six other winners.

Kilmarnock are the current holders, having won the tournament for the first time in their history when they defeated Celtic 1-0 at Hampden in March this year.

If Rangers are unseeded then they are clearly a new football club with no football history. If the new club was a continuation of the old club it would have the illustrious footballing history and would indeed be seeded.
Unseeded= zero history, simples.

Nah were still here pal, thousands of us. Comments like this just spur us on, oh how sweet its gona be when Rangers are back on top even if it takes 15 years. If its Sevco, Newco they still represent the Rangers that a first saw wi ma old dad. The only constant in a Football Club is in its generations of Supporters and the memories they hold, thats history mate a company name change will not change that, we to me anyway.

So you keep posting silly comments about us no being the same Rangers.
Because ma friend am gona be eating sweet cherry pie when we are top again.

Wise auld Bear

Let's get it right. Charles Green's The Rangers are not the football club incorporated in 1899 and finished the SPL season 2011/2012 in second place. That football club is being liquidated.
This new club would be in third round of the Scottish cup if it were the same club.
If it were the same club, it would still own the same SFA membership. A transfer of membership to the new club wouldn't be needed.

If it was that simple, we wouldn't be having a debate about it, would we. In my view, the Company that owned Rangers Football Club went into administration and will shortly be liquidated. The Company owns the licence, which is why we had to (rightly) reapply. This does not mean that the football club (and it's history) is done. The 'Club' is an entity of the Company and was sold as an asset of the Company to Charles Green, along with the badge, motifs, etc.

@3)....the notion that the football club is an entity separate to its incorporated company is ridiculous and lies.
Anyone who writes or speaks such nonsense is a buffoon.
Rangers was founded in 1872 and was incorporated in 1899 as required by association football rules to meet FairPlay financial requirements. This was done so that no one could thereafter say a football club is not a company! Yet you are repeating that nonsense here.

19 Jul 2012 18:52:50
If rangers pay football debts how can they empose transfer ebargo as this is what we got it for, lke being punished twice for sam crime. if im romg can sombody enlighten. 10pts deducted fo oing into admin, 3rd div for becoming newco, ebt still to be dcided, tax case still to be decided. Does anyone no if Juninihos ebt was eclared to sfa, I no they paid tax,

Listen.... A thief steals an old lady's handbag and is later caught at home with said bag. The bag is returned to the poor old lady. The thief goes to court and is charged and receives a punishment... That's how it works.

Briggs

Well briggsy id a guy working in my yard who had a key to the place , while we were working down in ayrshire ,he helped himself to an engine /gearbox /and weber carburretor ,i informed the police ,showed them the texts he sent me admitting it ,he didint have the balls to bring the stuff back himself he sent it back to glasgow in his car with 2 young guys ,what did the police do ? F/ALL they were more interested if i shouted and swore at him or attemted to force open his garage door which i did doug t.s.o

@1 therefore the punishment is a consequence of the crime?

JG

19 Jul 2012 17:31:45
Question for all?
Doe anyone know where we are with the application for the licence to play in the SFL ?
I'm getting more that a bit worried by the growing silence from Mr Green and the SFA ! Surely Mr Green would have been better attending the meeting with the SFA rather than jumping on a plane to meet other footballing authorities maybe I've got it wrong but in simple terms there's no point having a Ferrari in the drive if I don't have a licence to take it anywhere !

He never had a meeting with FIFA or UEFA either..Got a bad feeling about the whole thing

We do have a chairman as well who was meeting with SFA

JG

19 Jul 2012 16:37:27
FA now getting tough with Portsmouth as a condition of playing on. This is the same type of position the SFA are taking with Rangers - principle is yes you can join but we need to avoid this happening ever again.

"On top of starting the new season on minus 10 points, whoever buys Pompey must agree that only a limited proportion of the secured debt can be carried forward into the new company.

They must also agree to pay all football creditors in full, unless an alternative agreement is reached.

And they must agree to restrictions on playing budgets, future borrowing and loan repayments for the next five seasons."

19 Jul 2012 15:44:42
Ed- any updates from the sfa on rangers licence being granted? {Ed052's Note - nothing yet mate. hopefully tomorrow we will find out and will be able to move on.

9 days from the first game and this has still to be resolved, unbelievable this could only happen with the SFA and the idiots in charge of the asylum, get an acceptable compromise, grant the licence and tell us we will have a transfer embargo for six months starting on 1st January. Lets move on

JG

Post1; It is your owner who is holding the process up! And you have the cheek to ask for an ACCEPTABLE compromise! Show some humility for goodness sake.

@2 i am getting really p"£sed of with the 'have some humility' crap, i have nothing to feel humitidy about, your propoganda might work on some but not on me, now try stop being obsessed with all things red white and blue
no one liked us before no one likes us now, get aff yer high horse before you fall aff it

JG

JG; Glad the heats not bothering you but the point is valid.Green is holding the licence up,no one else.

@2 Why the hell should we show humility we have committed no crime. I'm getting sick to the back teeth of idiots coming on here demanding we show contrition and humility for the crimes of others. Are we sorry this has happend? bloody right we are. Are we sorry to all the creditors & teams that will lose money? bloody right we are. But stop coming on here sticking the boot in and being judge, jury & executioner. We will take our punishment if found guilty but that punishment is not for you to decide. We just want to rebuild and get back to playing football so go and kick the s**t out of someone else we've had enough. Rant over

Thing is all the other clubs that went into administration and insolvency didint suffer the abuse we get instead people tried to help them ,as the old saying goes what goes round comes around ,in other words ignore them and they will get their day doug t.s.o

Other clubs who went into liquidation honestly ran out of funds. Rangers were cheating rogues who didnt pay 273 creditors up to £145m including social taxes, employees NI and vat!!
To acquire entrance back into the Scottish football family you need to achieve redemption from us. We cannot give you redemption unless u show contrition, say sorry and ask forgiveness. Such humility will be rewarded.

Poster 7 i think you and the rest of scottish football should take your redemption case with 2 certain people not acting for rfc but acting for themselves ,we know whyte is in monaco ,where is murray hiding ? anyway your figure of 135 million isnt a true figure yet ,has there been a decision on a tax bill yet ,if its down to hmrc to get figures right you will wait forever ,i have first hand experience of that doug t.s.o

19 Jul 2012 14:02:12
Wont it be good when this whole carry on is resolved. i dont think there is one Newco fan who can put his hand on heart and admit how poor games are going to be for the forseeable future all you get out of Newco fans is defiance. That defiance is tearing yous apart but you all want to go on as if its good to be in the third division. that maybe so for the real football fans amongst the glory hunters who whole heartedly just want to be in the third as they think it will punish other teams. Newco heirachy have done not a thing wrong they showed balls that no-one associated with RANGERS could do. There are aolt of RANGERS people who say we have been punished enough but it what way and how have they been punished. As Rangers so far have only been dealt the rules of administration and liquidation. I think that the whole of Scottish is just bear baiting as Rangers havent been proven guilty of anything as yet. If it comes back that Rangers have done nothing illegal there are going to be alot of people with egg on there faces.Im not a Rangers fan and stopped going to Celtic games years ago. i took up family oriented sport as goig to motocycle racing where theres none of the carry on that goes with football especially the old firm. so i hope yous and them can all move on inlife what will be will be we all live work and play together so come on both sides its nice to be nice get it sorted guys

Na ...us rangers fans are just happy that there is still a Rangers to support and play football ... anything else is a bonus ..... away you go look forward to the "sexy" football the SPL brings ... lol u do realise that every team in the SPL pretty much looks to defend and scrape a result against the old firm ..... div 3 will be much the same the SPL 11 teams trying to scrape points of us just like in the SPL.

on another side point the name Newco came up god knows how many times in ur post ... we all can see ur trying ur wee hardest to distance newco and gers from each other .... however ur hatred for your blue brothers remains the same and u have replaced your hatred for gers with "neco" so much for them being an entirely seperate entity eh ?!

@1: please quote the hatred in the OP for us all...

Seems like you're another Rangers/Newco fan who sees hatred at every turn when there's none whatsoever. Get a grip and stop reading every slight criticism or post that you disagree with as being full of hatred.

@2. And your another nameless Gers hater. There seems to be more Bear baiters than Celtic season ticket holders at the mo. (no pun intended) Its about time Celtic fans went away, we arent even rivals anymore... CheltBlue

The hatred is obvious through your obsession for all things rangers you lot thrive on our downfall it somehow makes your life seem that wee bit better.You certainly aint on here because you are worried about our downfall you are on here to gloat and tell us we should be punished and kicked at every opportunity until we are no more and then you might leave us alone.So you dont have to say the word hate because everytime you visit this page it is to show your hatred towards a club that you tell us no longer exists.

@3&4: still making up hatred accusations I see. It's quite pathetic really. There's no hatred in any of the posts but you persist in accusing others of it. Maybe it's you who has the hateful agenda...

19 jul 2012 14:41:38
ed - when will we finally know what the feck's happening?? {Ed052's Note - Hopefully by the end of tomorrow we will find out about the licence.

19 Jul 2012 14:15:38
Why have Rangers been found guilty until proven innocent ? They have not been found guilty of dual-contracts, they have not cheated or broken any rules that have been found as of yet. All this talk of strip their titles, how about we get a fair trial first ?

Is that too much too ask from these rotten officials ? Or have they made their mind up already ?

Trial by newspapers and others until SFA, SPL give in to the propoganda

JG

If only we never got a fair trial by the spl and sfl if a jury member came out before the verdict was given in a court off law the case would be thrown out but in the crazy world of Scottish football they all came out one at a time thus influencing the others wrong in so many ways

If rangers have not been found guilty of d/contracts why was green prepared to accept the punishment to gain entry into div 1 {Ed039's Note - He would have had to accept punishment IF rangers had been found guilty, although it looks only a formality now)

19 Jul 2012 12:00:08
So it's strip a title time on the back pages today only way Celtic can drum up interest in their team is by taking pot shots at rangers.
Without us you are nothing get over it .

Well said, only problem is they have started the ball rolling, no doubt it will soon gather pace and before you know it they'll all be on the bandwagon.

Also the phrase "morally right" is being thrown about, a new "sporting integrity" maybe?

Wont buy the daily rebel again they can stick their sell out saturday up your a**e..

People in glass houses, and all that.
Mr Lennon should have a look below before spouting all the s**t,

BBC Scotland Investigates wrote to all of the Scottish Premier League’s member clubs and asked whether they had ever operated an EBT scheme.

Celtic confirmed that it established one EBT scheme in April 2005, which BBC Scotland understands was for the benefit of the Brazilian midfielder Juninho Paulista. The scheme was worth £765,000 but the club did not declare the trust payment to the Scottish Football Association or the Scottish Premier League.

The payments made to the trust were declared in Celtic’s annual report for 2004/2005, but in 2008 the club became aware of an event giving rise to a potential tax liability which was subsequently paid after agreement with HMRC.
But that still doesn't change the fact that they were signing outwith there means and CHEATING the game (no sporting integrity) Hmmm.....

@ 2) Typical response, newspaper with a bad headline - bin it. If they say it will rain in your locale tomorrow will you wear shorts out of spite? No wonder Craig Whyte and Murray found it so easy to do this, butter you up, create a siege mentality regards the press and get away with ripping you off left, right and centre. I'd maybe feel sorry if it wasn't for the stupidity.
Gaz

If it is one case or 50 cases the authorities must be consistent we would expect

JG

One mistake from Celtic and was cleared up as soon as it was flagged illegal, Rangers on the other hand have about 80 and I'm sure with the astute business men on the board knew what they were doing. Not once did they contact HMRC to get information, just buried heads in sand.

When the names come ouT over who benefited from this will be a shock to all level headed fans, and again the mighty rangers will make Scotland proud of there underhand tactics

Vambo (going for 2,3,4,.......10 titles)

Sell out saturday they need 10 months of sell outs to survive , lets see what happens after sell out saturday.

@6 One mistake...cleared up as soon as..it was 3 years after the event. You paid backdated tax and ni to HMRC after the event and it was settled.
If RFC had paid this backdated amount in 2010 it would have been closed by now.

19 Jul 2012 11:40:42
I submitted a post at 1am but it was not accepted. Giovanni Di Stefano is claiming via twitter that Blue Pitch Holdings are clients of BDO who buy investment opportunities to sell on for profit. They are in effect short term profiteers.
BDO are of course the liquidators of the Oldco!

Whatever people think of Di Stefano he is persistent. What next?

It would not surprise me if this is true, similar scandals have been going on for years. (Check out Barcleys debt recovery). This sort of legalized theft is very common. Very difficult to prove and will make no differance to "Rangers " and if the sale is voided this would only make things worse.

But Di Stefano is a nut job that you sould not want any where near your club.

BDO were rumoured in here and elsewhere to be liquidators of Rangers long before HMRC decided not to accept CVA.
'blue pitch' sounds terribly rangers friendly! Too appropriate! Getting it? Totally set up to exploit the rangers situation only. 10% of the fixed assets for a mere £1m.

Why haven't our good Scottish journalists thoroughly investigated every released member of Green's consortium? Who are the directors of blue pitch holdings? How long has it been registered? Months? How much of the rangers assets does it own? 10%? How much did they pay?
It it registered at companies house edinburgh or elsewhere?
Why is there two sevcos, one registered in England and owning the assets and one registered in Scotland running the team and holding the risks? Bet the investors all have 10% of the English sevco. Is this illegal unde SFA rules?

Scottish football journalism is so pathetic that Keith Cut n' Paste Jackson won the prize as best of the year - the man who gave us the 'Craig Whyte Wealth off the Radar' guff.

What a joke the lot of them are!

BARNEY BEAR

19 Jul 2012 09:59:32
Celtic fans who laugh at us now, beware. Watch as this case unfolds, how Mr Desmond, who has funded your club for years, used the twin contract EBT deals for Keane, Juninho etc.
Your day is coming Bhoys :-)

Twin contracts maybe, but EBT's were paid off when Lawell took charge due to his Bank of England / HMRC connections advising him of problems to come, as were Arsenal at the time. Both clubs paid the HMRC off, but other clubs were not as well warned.
On the EBT side, Celtic advised agents to set up their own arrangements for their players so it would not taint the club. While Hearts loaned their players from Kaunus paying them a fraction of their salary out of the UK to avoid tax.
It may all be doggy, but it is on the right side of an ever moving grey line.
On the twin contract side it is highly lightly that Keane, et al were on dual contracts but how you can prove that as they are not in adminstration?

@1 remeber the SFA. SPL dont need proof to bring a disrepute charge

JG

Celtic , along with every club in the SPL in the wake of the Rangers sag, have had to submitt full disclosure since the SPL inception for all transactions and contracts involving players. If they have done wrong they will be found out

Instead of just recycling redundant gossip try helping your own club.No wonder these shysters were able to waltz in and ruin your club so easily.The RST etc have got to be the most uninformed supporters on the planet.

@1 are you for real ,rangers were not in administration when all this ebt stuff kicked off thats what put us in administration ,the fear of a 50 mill tax bill

We can all goto div3 together. It's a tipsy turfy world alright. Joe

@5: I thought it was the inability to pay PAYE and NI, along with the increasing difficulty of running the club financially, rather than the fear of a bill - one that might not have come.

@5 NO what put you into administration is a £25million trading loss last year. In years past Murray was able to smoke and mirror the losses but Whyte was unable to do that.

(6) no it wasn't the EBT'S which put u's into administration, it was failure to pay tax n paye after taking it from the players! EBT'S is a whole new ball game mate!

It doesn't matter if you paid it off. Wow do Celtic fans not get it, the problem is the use of EBTs, not whether HMRC are annoyed at you. Strip Celtic of trophies!

'@ 10) Juninho played 14 league games in a season we didn't win the league, any of this getting through?

19 Jul 2012 07:09:50
I know the blame for all this lies at the feet of one or two men only - so I'm not having a go at Rangers as a whole. But what a mess.

If the argument about taking away trophies, titles and league positions achieved unfairly is carried through, then my club, Hearts, is probably one of the biggest victims of this period.

Are we now in a position to sue for loss of earnings given we've finished 3rd more times than not? And been knocked out of semi-finals and beat in finals by Rangers?

I know it's hard to see past the emotion and there's probably a siege mentality with Rangers now, but if this was reversed I'm sure all these questions would be getting asked by Rangers fans.

But at the same time, where would Hearts take this money from and who would we sue? The SPL? Oldco? Newco? The SFA?

And to be fair, even a Rangers without the EBT dual payment scheme would have probably finished above us. But you can't really say that. It is like getting beat by an athlete on drugs, no matter how good the athlete.

No point in looking backwards I suppose, but this period with Rangers has really meant the whole Scottish game over that period was a 'bogey'. A real shame as I don't really go to games that much now, but back then I went all the time, and it was really demoralising to watch guys like Alan McManus try to compete with Brian Laudrup and Paul Gascoigne. (If you're going to post to tell me those guys weren't in the EBT scheme, well, the principle is the same with whoever was.)

Shame the fans of Rangers are going to suffer through this too I should add. But my loyalties are to Hearts, and I don't see much in terms of redressing our potential past lost earnings coming out of this.

Can Darren Fletcher sue Cesc Fabregas and Roberto Rosetti for getting sent off for a foul that never happened in the 2009 semi's and been cheated out of a final? Dont think so.
Don

The aEBT scheme ran between 2001 and 2010 only

"my club, Hearts, is probably one of the biggest victims of this period."
Your club Hearts have been paying their players offshore for years now (when they actually pay them of course) to avoid tax, so your not exactly squeaky clean yourselves.

@3: but not a patch on what Rangers were supposedly doing.

Go on then - since I put the original post up and you've come back with your 1-3 observations.

1 - Not sure what you're going on about with Darren Fletcher. But referee mistakes don't rank alongside illegitimate and illegal practices. So if you want an analogy - look at Marseille and Italian bribery where teams were demoted and stripped of titles. It's more like that to me than bad referee decisions i.e improper practices to win games.

2) As I said - whether Gazza and Laudrup or whatever players - the principle is the same. Players inappropriately paid for that we couldn't compete with through honest means.

3) As regards 'squeaky clean' challenge. HMRC or anybody is welcome to investigate Hearts no matter what headlines the west coast media have printed about us. It's all legal. So more tax avoidance as per Jimmy Carr than anything illegal. Otherwise we'd be in the position of Rangers - and we're not.

I tried to be symphathic to Rangers fans - but responses like this don't encourage it.

19 Jul 2012 01:04:31
Giovanni Di Stefano reporting that Blue Pitch Holdings are a Company formed by clients of BDO who buy assets on the cheap and sell on for profit. BDO just happen to be oldco liquidators! In his words "what a tangled web!"

Means nothing.So BDO could not handle any case where they had an ex client involved?They liquidate companies,they must come across ex clients now and again.

19 Jul 2012 00:02:37
Gers new 3rd shirt, just released....still has Tennents on it, still made by Umbro, and still has 5 stars on the shirt.

Is the new 3rd shirt one for playing in the 3rd division? {Ed052's Note - I would think so mate

3rd shirt....you'll soon have more kits than players!

DazzaBhoy