Rangers Banter Archive May 19 2012

19 May 2012 22:40:55
well done chelsea. graeme

19 May 2012 18:25:35
Whyte still running things , Green said last night that shares go back to Whyte if cva is not agreed , d&p would only allow sale to Millar because they wanted a newco , and wouldn't sell to the blue knights because they wanted to get a cva and save the club. Obviously Whyte gets a better result for himself if liquidated , having a security on Ibrox excetera . Green is already lying first he had 20 investors now it's 5 or 6 . He's not even talking to the players to secure there contracts because he knows it's liquidation and so wouldn't get anything from the players contracts . Only seems to obvious it's liquidation .
Depressed.

He didn't lie

he said there 20 'investors' & yesterday said that some of them were willing to let their names be known

We don't have any other option but to go with this guy - unless you've got a spare £100 mill ! (&thats just for starters)

bill72

To the op , the shares will go back to Whyte cause if its a newco Green won't need them all assets would be transfered over to a new company. The Rangers plc 1889 company would be an empty shell so why would he need the shares? Green has already bought Rangers assets for 8.5m and has a binding contract saying that in any circumstance he has to pay that money be it newco or cva, his bid was 100% unconditinal.


Also Green can't talk to the players as he is not the owner and technically he has no postion at the club right now till either a cva is agreed or he sets up a newco. As for Whyte wanting Liquidation no he does not, if that is the case the fsa will launch an investigation on to how he obtained the club. Believe me that is the last thing Whyte will want.

Dont you fools know if no cva is agreed green does not need the shares

Lochaber Bear

2. Thank god somebody else has got an understanding of how this works. Does nobody else read and listen. All those experts that seem to know, have not got a clue. Well said number 2

19 May 2012 16:47:29
how can D&P just tell tickettut we are not paying you24million ????

Was going to reply 'cause legally they can'
but apparently this whole sh1t scenario is all within the law (although morally crap) or surely someone would be called to account by now?

bil72

They're not wiping out the ticketus money, its just part of the procedure for Ticketus becoming official creditors in the CVA! Doesnt change a thing...

19 May 2012 15:59:16
whatever comes out in the tv programme about murray is not going to be a revelation ,or it would certainly be out in the media domain by now regarding murray, no way would it be kept under wraps for weeks or months since the show was filmed, to make good tv viewing? iv a feeling it will be like the other tv show about craig shyte much ado about nothing
jammydodger

If the bbc prog about whyte was much ado about nothing why the calls for boycotts and banning BBc from Ibrox....wait till wed and we can all judge if it is much ado about nothing..( remember Murray trying for an injunction ...surely if nothing in it why waste more money with court and lawyers) just a thought

1.)
ther may have been calls for boycotts & bans = = but what exactly did the bbc witchhunt actually prove (about rangers) = = a lot of specualtion & inuendo but what else?

bil72

@1) so the bbc are keeping ( phone hacking, underhand tactics) that break the law and could be jailed over to themselves and are able to keep secret till the show appears on tv ,i think the law would want to know why they took so long in coming out with it? and by the way im saying this also hoping it is much ado about nothing we as fans have had enough dung thrown our way.

19 May 2012 14:57:32
So the transfer embargo means no signings next year. fair enough, if thats the punishment that the fa decide to throw at us then so be it. But im more than confident that a certain set of fans who have urged us to take our punishment on the chin n move on will be the same fans who if we win the championship next season will claim we were never punished enough.
So given we cannot sign anyone it is a must that we ensure aluko n naisy remain at the club. mcgregor has been great for us n id be sad to see him go but i feel we have an able gk in alexander n if mcgregor can generate 3million + then its a no brainer. with the emergence of mccabe this season n ness last and with hutton coming back woth a half season under his belt at dunfermline then davis is another who i'd hope could generate approx 2/3million so again a no brainer. papac goes with a massive thank you from all us bears, broadfoot n healy will sirely be freed n i expect ortiz to go down the same route. i really cant see anyone coming in for whittaker. big goian may also go i reckon so my team for next season......

...............................alexander................................

Whittaker........bocanegra...perry..........wallace

................mccabe.....edu.....ness/hutton.............

Naismith........mcculloch/little..........aluko...........

Subs
adam
cole
hutton/ness
mcculloch/little
mitchell
fleck
kerkar

j1985

Whittker will def be sold as his contract will be back up a 20k a week and hes Not worth half that, also feel edu and naismith will be off.

To the OP,you are right you have not been punished enough and still you are whineing

Dannybhoy

If someone was willing to stump up a fee for whittaker then id not be too fussed if he went, just dont see any club being interested in him mate. As for edu n naisy i hope your wrong, think edu has been excellent for us since the turn of the year n to perform as well as he has given the stick he got from fans early on says a lot about the guy. I knew villa n wba were sniffing about naisy but with big eck being sacked n hodgson away from wba i hope interest has cooled a bit. im optimistic boca, edu, aluko n naisy will be rangers players next season.......fingers crossed.
J1985

All comes down to Green surely? Is he gonna use investment cash or try for a big season ticket turnover?..........green jhedi

I ave said for years to get whittaker to france an being abused he is the worst right back ever an that counts broadfoot in there as well naisy wont go as he has said as much unless forced


TB

Honestly?
I think Whittaker, Wallace, Naismith & Aluko ( at least!) will all be gone before August

bil72

19 May 2012 12:35:54
is any 1 happy for jelavic at everton i am hes on fire he has also broke the myth that players from the spl carnt hack it in the prem

davoo

Van Bronkhurst didn t do too badly for Gunners to name but one more.

Reyna did better than ok
Big Dunc did not too bad
Burke, Adam & Ferguson did well
Hutton still in EPL doing alright
Cuellar getting over njury but still done ok
Arteta?

any more?

bi72

19 May 2012 11:57:07
At this hour � around 1.30am we have not yet received the full reasoning of the Appelate Tribunal � the appeal body to whom Rangers went to try to reduce their punishment. Yet we already know enough to conclude that Rangers FC are beyond question lucky to exist at all now � certainly the luckiest club in British football right now, simply because they�re still allowed to trade as a football club.

Surprised that they upheld the fine and 1 year ban on buying new players? Hardly. And nor � critically � do I think Charles Green and the Mysterious Twenty of his consortium will be either.

They want to buy a club which nearly � seriously nearly � got expelled from Scottish football completely for a massive £12m tax fraud.

The Appeal Tribunal writes: �The sanctions available included expulsion from participation in the game and termination or suspension of membership of the Scottish FA, which would have had a similar effect. The Appellate Tribunal observes that serious consideration was given by the disciplinary tribunal to imposing one of these sanctions, which would have had obvious consequences for the survival of the club. The Disciplinary Tribunal rejected these as too severe and this Appellate Tribunal agrees with that conclusion.�

Bluntly: Green�s damned lucky that Rangers exists at all, that there is a thing called Rangers to buy. To borrow the tribunal�s favourite phrase about men-in-suits-in-Rangers � he had to have known what was going on and how near this club has come to annihilation.



So no, nobody should be surprised that against that threat, Rangers are merely banned from buying new talent for a year. A year in which they�re already banned from Europe as all prospective buyers are aware. Mr Green and The twenty mysterons of his consortium obviously knew all about this and can thus only be relieved there�s still a club to buy.

The second critical fact here is again, the appeal tribunal goes out of its way to hold the club responsible for massive tax fraud � not simply the former owner Craig Whyte. The �club� in law is its chairman and board of directors of the plc. Look carefully at their wording:

�The Disciplinary Tribunal was correct to determine that the conduct involved � especially the deliberate non-payment of very large sums, estimated in excess of £13m of tax in the form of PAYE, NIC and VAT � was attributable to the club as a member of the Scottish FA.�

Now, remember what it was that the tribunal determined? That key named directors at Rangers at that time: John McClelland, John Greig, David King, Ken Olverman and Martin Bain (he of the shredded contracts as revealed by C4 News) had to have known what was going on and did nothing about it.

This was the �club� in law. The directors. These men of Rangers who walked away from Rangers.

Since what was going on was �deliberate non payment� income tax, national insurance and VAT to the value of £13m it is reasonable to ask whether these men, along with Mr Whyte, are now going to face a police investigation for possible fraud. I shall be making inquiries from first thing.

Quite possibly they are innocent men, shut out from what was happening by the ever-increasingly-absent Craig Whyte. Though the tribunal has already stated they must have known something very wrong was happening at Ibrox, yet chose to do little or nothing about it.

Mr Whyte is accused by an eminent legal tribunal of directly masterminding a deliberate non-payment of tax. But the whole point here is that tribunal first and now appelate tribunal explicitly hold the �club� (the directors) responsible for this joint enterprise of non-payment. They do not just blame Craig Whyte.

Craig Whyte�s reaction? No change there since he�s always regarded the entire procedure as a �kangaroo court�, �a complete joke� and �a total charade�. He will not bother to appeal, that being his view.

As for the football side of things? Well, there is a football side of things and since Ibrox has been the scene of a major tax fraud, Rangers are exceedingly lucky that this even exists today.

The appeal tribunal duly notes there are 40 players who can still turn up next season because the buy-ban doesn�t stop the club extending contracts of these 40 already on the books:

��the Appellate Tribunal recognises that the Disciplinary Tribunal decision does not affect Rangers� ability to extend the contracts of existing professional players, including those whose contracts will expire at the end of this season and including also those currently on loan to other clubs. The Appellate Tribunal observes that Rangers FC have over 40 professional players in this category.�

But footy�s nothing if not short as a career. The window for glory is just a few seasons for most players. Ryan Giggs is an exception proving a brutal rule: life�s short at the top.

Realistically, the better the player, the more likely they are to look elsewhere for glory and european football, when many contracts expire next month at Rangers.

Clearly, from all this, the only reasonable response from Ibrox should be relief and gratitude that they still exist. Scores of clubs, charities, individuals, businesses, councils and colleges across Scotland, the UK and beyond are owed money by this football club � and so are all of us owed at least £13m in deliberate unpaid taxes aka fraud aka serious crime.

The only thing Scotland and the UK taxpayer need hear from Rangers PLC today is the word �sorry�. That�s about as likely as a Craig Whyte pitch-side press conference at Ibrox

JohnnG..from A Thomson CH4

Dress it up as you please, lots of things have happened that are not quite as transparent as they seem so anyone can have a pop and they are, I for one will wait until the dust settles and make my own judgement sensational journalism sells papers and tv slots but I've learned over the years that very soon after these comments very diluted ones follow so I wait

Please remember a lot of what is said in the OP, are from people who's job is to sensationalise and get on the front pages.

THEY HAVEN'T EVEN MANAGED THAT, FFS!

Hang fire till we know what's going on, instead of speculating and in some cases hoping for the worst


bil72

19 May 2012 10:45:00
why is it that rangers fans think that they are above punishment.what rangers have done is shocking and the transfer ban is fair in the context of how other teams have suffered and continue to do so in waiting for payments. why cant you just accept this without the the threat of boycotts. its really pathetic.take your medicine with some dignity please!!

I don't think RFC fans are in denial mate.
Would you like to supply details of the exact charges.That would be welcome so as we can address them on an individual basis.
That is of course unless you are just posting in a general sense,against all things RFC.
Supply your list of "Proven" charges and we can have an adult discussion.
What we do know is that SDM conned us (the fans) Craig Whyte refused to pay income tax, P.A.Y.E. and N.I.
The debts to other football clubs are a result of CW lobbing us into administration,a direct result of this is that your bank accounts are frozen. Why would Rangers fans be in denial about any of the above?
The more serious charges are yet to be decided.
Previously Optimistic Bear {Ed014's Note - Whyte wasn't the owner when Jelavic was bought and Rapid are still owed money from that deal.

Hi ed014. (Is there an Ed 014? lol.)
RFC still owe Rapid Vienna £1.2million
Jelavic deal was to be paid in instalments.
This is not an uncommon practice.Jelavic cost 4.2 million, Rangers were to pay this off in three instalments,the final payment was not due till the summer 2012. Rangers went into administration,prior to the final payment.
The Admin process automatically freezes RFC's bank acount/financial transactions.
The Rock and a Hard place scenario then unfolds. Whyte paid any funds RFC had into his legal firm(Collier Brystow) Sold off Arsenal shares etc,and D&P had to get players to sign wage deferrals to get club to end of season.
Previously O.B. {Ed014's Note - It was still a debt from the previous regime.Didn't Walter Smith say that no money was owed to Rapid?It is also a condition of transfers that any money owed is paid in full if the player is sold on with an outstanding balance.If Rapid did complain to UEFA over this it could result in further punishment for Rangers.

Well technically no money was owed to Rapid Vienna at the time of Walter's statement. Walter left at the end of the season,when Whyte took over. The final instalment is not due until this summer.
So technically (but unlikely)can still be paid.
The OP was alluding to Craig Whyte's responsibility(or lack of it) CW is implicit in everything that has gone on since Admin.SDM prior to this. But how anyone including Alex Thomson can say that CW is not to blame,and that RFC should say sorry,is beyond my rational line of thinking. CW is RFC,even now.
That was my aguement against the O.P.
Previously O.B. {Ed014's Note - The proportioning of blame is pointless.It is Rangers as a whole that are responsible for this mess.Blaming individuals for it is not helping.Stand by your club,it does not make the support look good to neutrals.I fail to see what good saying sorry would do,it's not like the Gers smashed a window playing football.

You're right Ed,to an extent. I will always stand by my club as long as they are there to receive support. That is the issue. What SDM(and others) and latterly CW(and others) did to our club is unforgiveable in my opinion .
So it becomes personal, these guys were the overseers,the main men, the chairmen. Where else do you go?
Martin Bain told Murray, Ken Olverman told Whyte,others walked away.
Right now i don't know if what Whyte did will be the death of,or the salvation of RFC,given their problems,but i sure as hell ain't happy about it.
Nice talking to you Ed,i'm off to kip mate.
Have a good one,they'll all be in from the boozer soon. Lol,
Previously O.B. {Ed014's Note - And you pal.I think I will turn in and leave someone else to deal with it all lol

19 May 2012 10:27:59
Time for a Rant
I�m sick to the back teeth of people posting on here about Sporting integrity within Scottish football Scottish football has not had any integrity for a long long time.

Take my own club rangers what�s gone on there is diabolical non-payment of paye possible dual contracts and that�s probably just scraping the surface ( lack of sporting integrity)

Then we look at our neighbours across the city Celtic this is a team that nearly brought Scottish football to its knees a couple of seasons ago with its constant criticism of referees and officials which lead to a referee strike and only this season their manager after winning a well-deserved league title basically says in not to many words refs are bias and they cheat because some of their decisions are personal and all because he lost a cup game (where�s your sporting integrity there

Then there�s the SFA unfortunately for rangers they have picked this time to grow a pair if they had grown a pair years ago then clubs like Rangers, Celtic ,Hearts and the SPL etc would show them a bit more respect over the years

I�ve left the best to last the SPL when it comes to a lack sporting integrity this lot take the biscuit since its formation in 1998 it has restructured the league to save member clubs from relegation changed rules moved goal posts and they are more than likely to vote a newco rangers into spl because they are a cash cow all for self-preservation just ask Falkirk about the SPLs sporting integrity

If Rangers had to go to the Sfl div 3 and it brought Scottish football to its knees it might not be a bad thing because what might rise from the ashes of Scottish football might develop into something we could be proud of but before that could ever happen we would have to get rid of three governing bodies and be governed by one.

As I said Scottish football and sporting integrity are like oil and water they don�t mix
Rant over

Lochaber Bear

Good post m8 100% bang on especially the 3 governing bodies we need one to run scottish football and these guys need to be guys who have played the game and know what they are talking about.

19 May 2012 10:18:53
I'm really looking forward to the match today. Hope its a fantastic day
For the fans. I think hibs might sneak it.

Not too excited about todays game. Hoping for a Hibs victory.

What basis do you think hibs will sneak it? Hearts are a far better team.

2. Derby match. Desire to win and big individual performances will count for a lot. Hibs have a few players who could be suited to the big day.

19 May 2012 09:40:30
Trying to work out where Neil Doncaster is explicitly coming from,regarding his comparison about CVA and Newco.
He said: “Whenever I speak to people about the distinction between a CVA and a newco what I keep being told is it’s simply wrong that any club should be able to create a newco and shed debt. As if a CVA doesn’t lead to the shedding of debt.
“Administration is the protection the court gives you when you can’t pay your debts.
“There are two ways out of that — one is a newco, one is a CVA.
“But the distinction between the two is relatively fine. I am baffled as to why such a distinction is drawn.
Is he implying here that one is as punative as the other?
He continued with.
“When Livingston were relegated to Division Three did they cease to exist and start again? Of course they didn’t.
“It’s not OK to waive £90million of debt, of course it’s not. But it happens. In football as in business.”
Strange conclusion to his statement, as he appears to be offering an olive branch of some description.
So it would appear(from my train of thought) that we will be punished,regardless whether it's cva or Newco,but we will be allowed to remain within the auspices of the SFA. Albeit in a lower division. He also appears to be implying that the history will not be lost.
Thoughts?
Previously Optimistic Bear(P.O.B.)

19 May 2012 01:03:23
Rangers should pick up Alan Urquhart from Queens Park - he captained Scotland schoolboys u18s last year to jointly win the Centenery shield with Ireland but the idiot Spiers is not picking him, Queens Park are famed for producing good young players but Spiers is driving them away. They are welcome to come Rangers way... That would be a start for us.

Well maxie murray for 1 ,alistair scott didnt set the heather on fire he was another erik bo anderson doug t.s.o

18 May 2012 23:47:36
Here is a thought, assume the debt is 134m, and its probably not, especially if ticketus contract ripped up, abd assume an interest rate of 10 per cent which woul. Outperform any other investment right now and a capital repayment of 5% that would be debt outgoings of c22m, assume rangers income is 55m then you have 33m per annum for expenses and players a huge return for creditors and very little left for players, why has this not been proposed, is that not the definition of living within your means and surely the honorable thing to do? The only answer could possibly be that rangers would not be as competitive nor could they count on the number of season ticket sales of they were not as successful, therefor it doesnt take a great brain to say, we are bot paying the creditors the way we should because we don't have to and they really are not as loyal as we think they are. Surely logic dictates that with a 33m expense budget you can come first or second in the SPL ffs?
Nevis