Rangers Banter Archive February 20 2014

20 Feb 2014 21:43:42
I must totally agree with some of the other posters in saying give our ceo graham wallace a chance, he's asked for 120 days so let's be patient and wait and see what his 5 year plan to take us back to the top & financially secure is going to be, I personally do think that wallace is the man to take us there and his cv is tremendous, after seeing wallace's interview today it just confirms for me that he most definitely knows what he's doing and wouldn't risk his tremendous reputation if he didn't deliver, it was a frank, honest & brilliant, unflinching interview & would suggest all true rangers supporters to watch it, he's definitely engaging in getting very close to the rangers fans which says a lot about him, he's a class act, so to all the doom & gloom merchants who I'm sick to the teeth of, give wallace & his board the 120 days he's asked for & wait and see what he comes up with, I think you'll be pleasantly surprised, be patient instead of continually jumping on the negative side all the time

Listened, but must have missed something you didn't? what's new in his interview that's got you so positive? He talks of honesty but forgets to say that he had been talking to board members about a loan of 1mill plus? He talks of many of the exact same things previous CEOs have also said? he could have at least had the decency to state why he asked players to take a wage cut? that would be a start of honesty? WHY?
This is the same old "crap" we have had before, great support. deserve the best. On and off the field. heard it seen it fed up of it. this is yet another PR exercise for the masses, nothing more. Wallace has a job to do (although seems to be taking long time to do any of it, since he has already worked out we need money fast, hence wage cut and loan asks?. ) he has no emotional ties with Rangers or their support and to think he does is deluded! Not long ago I can still recall the exact same things being said of Murray, Whyte and Green. let's not forget these 3 sold us the illusion and we fell for it. Never again I say, fan owned fan run and fan openness not much to ask for. but it seems to be.

OP I agree with you Mr Wallace should at this stage be allowed to improve things. Unlike you however I have never seen his CV or indeed had even heard of him when he was CEO at Manchester City until his current appointment. The requisitioners however admitted he probably was a good appointment so hopefully he will be given time to improve things if he possibly can. The main reason for my pessimism- leaving football aside here is in December 2012 after the ridiculous IPO service/ enabling costs we had a cash injection of circa £17- £18 million. CG and others made a big issue of the fact that we were then a debt free club. With today's admission we will seek a £1.5 million loan we are no longer debt free. Plus in coming seasons we will not benefit from a one off sizeable cash injection of anything like December 2012. Bill Miller told us of the "black hole" in our finances which has obviously not disappeared. The optimism would be that the higher level of performance in the two recent games against Dunfermline could be hopefully replicated in games against better opposition - possibly Hearts, Falkirk, Hamilton and Dunfermline as well as Cowdenbeath and Raith Rovers etc.
The concern let's call it and I would suggest it is reasonable concern rather than doom and gloom is that I cannot see where the fairly substantial extra income to keep us a float is going to come from. We are not going to suddenly earn £millions more because we are in the Championship but where there is life there is hope so I truly hope your optimism is justified and I will be delighted if you are proven to be correct.

Haven't seen the interview ram, Wallace might have a decent track record but he's just another yes man for the powers that be. If he was acting in the best interests of rangers then in terms of the recent loan would have approached all rangers shareholders and got the best deal for the club, not lining the pockets of the spivsters in the form of more shares. More shares more control for the locusts.

Big R - I am totally in agreement with you, we know we going through the darkest days in our long history we know there are lots of concerns, those who want to walk away, feel free to do so, but don't come crawling back when we reach the top again

JG

@2, you ask why he asked for players wage cut, and then answer it yourself, as regards ''the same old crap'', because a couple of rogues have said similar does that mean nobody else can say it and mean it, when the gang of four (you know all mouth and no cash forthcoming) said it the fans lapped it up.

@ all of the above! Celtic fan here! A quick question for you all! Who would loose out the most if dave king invested? Surely this guy is a rangers man at heart? I vaguely remember something at the admin that accounts showed he got his 40 mill investment back? But were the accounts truthfully? This guy seems genuine to put his money where his mouth is for a second time! Just can't understand why they don't welcome him with open arms rather than negative press about rangers needing a loan to survive till ticket renewal? Surely large investment from king would have been positive news for fans? A good spin from the CEO Wallace and gave fans who have dug deepest of everyone, some light at the end of what has been a very dark tunnel in Scottish football not just for rangers!

@4 Your posts puzzle me I agree with some of them particularly about the fans buying shares and owning the club.
Then you come out with- fans "should feel free to walk away. but don't come crawling back again?" what does that even mean?
On a post where some of us months ago requested youth be given their chance you suggested this was "romantic crap"

Now where you do demonstrate some knowledge is about shares and finance issues around shares and ownership.
My difficulty in understanding your position surrounds the fact that leaving aside the recent poor governance if we needed £17million (after "costs")from the IPO plus another £1.5million loan to get through to the end of this season what would be 18 months of business.
Income plus another £18.5 million to survive 18 months- hold on that's a £1 million per month shortfall- isn't that what Bill Miller suggested?
If you are against giving youth it's chance because it is "romantic crap"- where does your optimism come from?
Where does the extra £12million per year come from? And that is just to stay afloat- people like you who cannot see the need for our own youth's development can forget transfers in and even attracting experienced pros because we cannot afford them.
Oh yeah and I forgot paying back the £1.5 million loan?
At some point we need to be self financing we cannot go on looking for cash injections and loans every year to keep a team on the park.

NB here is where I am coming from

1, Our club is going through probably our toughest time ever and now I see supporters saying they have had enough and won't be back,
that's fine that is there choice and they are free to choose as they like, but this is the time we need all our support more than ever so if anyone walks away now I would hope they do the decent thing and stay away
If they give up now I don't want them to come back if and when we get ourselves back to where we belong and didn't you yourself just post how its impossible for you to give up supporting the gers? i'm the same

2, If I remember I posted in response to someone saying that we should have a full first team of young players as we are in the lower leagues, that's what I said was romantic crap, not developing and bring through young guys
do the arithmetic, how many young Scottish players actually make it to play first team football in the premier league,
not too many these days but we are expected to have a full first team squad of them, how realistic is that

3, regarding finances, we were told we had 11m on 30th June 2013 and it appears we are receiving 1. 5 from two larger shareholders to see us through to end of season,
I am hopeful the gravy train that was being ridden by the old board has been derailed
I will make my comments when I see the interim results, next month

for me Its a positive indicator that the two shareholders have put more investment in, my understanding is they will receive shares which are not in public issue right now, so its not a cash payback we need to make, effectively they are buying 1.5m worth of shares from the club (look on website share info, it has always stated that 16. 4% of shares are not in public hands) not another shareholder, so the money stays within the club, why would they do that if we are facing admin and they would clearly lose their 1.5m, plus what they have already paid out for other shares

JG

At last sensible comment jg good man unfortunately there are too many doom merchants oot there

"why would they do that if we are facing admin and they would clearly lose their 1.5m, plus what they have already paid out for other shares".?

because in doing so they become primary creditors, and if admin happen they in driving seat, like whyte was last time round. choosing the buyer of the assets.

why such a measley ammount, and the ammount needed to fund a short admin plus redundancy costs.

so now not debt free, press announcement we talking about £1.5m loan, not announcement to aim that we Have secured loan.?

Jg maybe if the board told us there plans they wouldn't get people wanting to walk away most including myself won't walk away but we pay for there high style of life ime sure they could tell us the plan and also the money issues

20 Feb 2014 14:28:03
1.5 million are the people on our board serious they sayed they had investment lined up and all come up with after weeks and weeks off talks is 1.5 million
to keep them running till season ticket renewal time so yet again the fans will be asked to keep them in there rich cars suits and director boxes anuf is anuf we are being treatead like persons if the can only come up with 1.5 million then its time for the lot of them to leave every rangers fan must not fall for the rubbish going come out from them between now and season ticket renewal time DO NOT GIVE THEM OUR MONEY WE HAVE DONE OUR BIT TIME FOR THEM TO DO there's OR WALK AWAY

The money is for working capital, the investment in the summer is a different issue.

Investment from where. the only way that can happen is for a further share issue, now do you think the people who have put up this money will allow their share holding to be diluted, they have just increased their hold on Rangers and none of the people in power want Dave King anywhere near. Another point of view is the money could be used to fund administration.

The Board asked for a 160 day period of consultation. At present that is now 60 days into it. In my opinion a constructive and legitimate business plan. Be calm people and get supporting again. Sick to death of negative vibes on here.

Investment in the summer will not come from them that are running our club.
they are expecting the fans to pay again I say save our money till we no where it is going if sum fans don't agree then good luck we have to wake up some day 1.5 million is to tide them over till the get fans season ticket money again

There is no question where the money will go theyn have no option but using it to run the club surely the new board members hsve their reputation to think same about same as g wallace the present board an g wallace must be given a chance

@2

Allymac, if and I mean if a share dilution is the only alternative to administration then the shareholders will choose the former. Do you really think the shares would survive administration, renting out Ibrox isn't going to value any business at 17 million.
They are in a lose lose situation, and are locked in to saving the company.
Only one thing will put Rangers into administration, the fans walking away.

It's for working capital that tells me they need it for the day to day running of the club ie wages they would have sold Wallace if the £1.5 mill offer had came in we are skint again let not bury our heads in the sand if the loan had not come in we would not have been able to pay wages Mr King has said he is willing to invest why have they not even spoke to him I can see big cuts and soon there is no investment I know he asked for 120 days but the fact they needed a loan and the fact they could not raise funds outside the board says they have not managed to raise funds this is to get through to season tickets then the money will again be used as working capital it's going to be a long long road and anyone who thinks we will be ready to challenge Celtic when we get back is on crowd cuckoo land but hey it's McCoists fault as usual wake up you lot

N5 these people don't give a feck about there peputations they only care about money money money money money money and counting THERE money money they sleep sound as a pound then waken up thinking about money money money more money money money

Look admistration would do their money shares would not be worth three rows of sheeps s**** that's the short and long of it

N9 there shares are just a wee bonus to them they got them for nowt bph and magr are the secret share holders and cherlie boy will be bph and merg

20 Feb 2014 13:27:23
Rangers to receive 1.5 million emergency loan? Two large investors to give the loan till season ticket money starts to come in! If it is inverstors why is it a loan and not just more investment? The hedge group and the essedales are the mentioned parties!

Note - if true fans could have power to make demands, ie put season ticket money into single account - and say to get this en bloc talk to this guy.

Who do we trust most - and give him our proxy to negociate seat onto the board.

At the recent AGM the board failed to get the required 75% of votes necesary to pass resolution 10 - "renew the directors' authority for the disapplication of pre-emption rights". Pre-emption rights protect shareholders from the dilution of their stakes and passing the motion would have given the board the ability to sell shares to selected investors for as little as a penny a time. The club stated that they may renew attempts to secure this privilege in future after 32. 1 per cent of votes went against them.
I would content that in the near future we will see an EGM called were this resolution will be put the shareholders again. If the loan is exchanged for shares this will ensure that this resolution will now have the required votes to be passed.
This will then allow us to see who really holds the power and also will allow the majority shareholders to offer shares to other interested parties that have been waiting in the wings to invest.

The problem with what you say Paddy is, the people putting up the money are the largest shareholders so will they want to see their investment diluted, to allow their power to be dissipated. I don't think so. Administration still a real threat.

Op - how many loans do you think your mob have received over the years from one specific large investor?

Sammy - are you not getting season ticket holders mixed up with shareholders
ST gives you access to watch the rangers etc etc
SH gives you a vote in the election of the board members

I have never ever heard of ST holders electing the board

JG

Administration is not going to happen there is no chance smokey and the bandits are going to let their shares become worthless the debt is minimal there is plenty of scope to turn everything round make it a real viable proposition but as I have said this is the time here and now to get started there certainly been payments that have been made that were one of and iaccept some higher wages had to be paid to attract players but ther has been some real dud signings that should never had happened ally down to the one and only ally

@ Allymac

What price will the shares be transferred at? Say 1p a share again, accounting for 15m of the 16m+ shares yet to be issued. This strengthens their hand at present. If there is another public share issue, their percentage holding isn't diluted and they can shares to recoup their loan.

JG. its called fan power.

worst case scenario is fans hand over ST money June, and RFC folds as its all gone by oct.

But they £8m from fans en bloc, could be enough to get control, since currently this the largest income into club.

It can go in lump sum, or fed in £700,000 each month - which would prevent it disappearing into the black hole that £22m just vanished into.

ps. only saying one seat on board. not whole board. but £8m is sufficient to get a board rep at times like these.

Sammy1974 I've never replied to any of your posts before but I agree on your post number 8 the support need to get there fingers out cause them running rangers must be laughing there fecking heads off they've got us bye the short and curllies and they know it why won't they let an outsider look at the books I feel like they are taking me for a person here

Sammy 1974 in responce to first post I said about a year ago on here the fans should ask somebody like john greig to open bank account for supporters to put season book money into then tell the board they will get the book money once they tell us what's going down even at that they only get the money if we agree with there plans

Tmwnn - was sure I was not first to suggest, but with Hearts fans and DAFC fans effect rebuilding their clubs and boards. think its time has now come.

Looks likely £8m is needed asap - but will that vanish in an instant (claim from Imran, some unpaid bill. VAT? etc etc etc)

Where as the ST money is a major income, and it could be fed into club with someone on board.

Your John Greig a great suggestion. funny how JG - does not support that - odd that?

So JG is not John Greig fan. odd that!

N10 it let's us know that jg is not our john lol greig

20 Feb 2014 12:41:34
Its a concern Mr king hasn't been allowed to contribute the cash needed, and its even more a concern as to the reasons why not?. Why can't Wallace simply tell us why? why can't Walter tell us? will anyone ever tell us anything ever again? seems Rangers are now the most secretive club in Britain, that title used to belong to our rivals, not now
Tomblue (formerly tommyblue)

Rangers are a PLC, they cannot divulge share sensitive information.
DK wants to invest money through a share dilution, obviously this would affect the shareholders but not him.

Exactly right steerpike and the Easdales do not want him anywhere near the club and the other institutional people don't either so DK is bumping his gums for the sake of it. DK wants to put money in but he wants other people to take a hit to allow him to do that, why didn't he go in at the beginning.

Thats a fact but that's the same as bl to knights want the club for nothing if d king and whoever want the club to get rid of smokey and the bandits the only certain way is to buy some of ther shares to get control nit shiily shally about the edges and want the club for nothing or next to nothing

20 Feb 2014 05:46:09
If it's true that the easdales and laxey are to put in £1.5 million as a loan, to be paid back in shares, i'd love to know how many shares are involved.

it must be extremely worthwhile for them.

why are they putting in money if wallace says we don't need it?