Rangers Banter Archive May 21 2012

21 May 2012 23:14:51
I'm getting a bit sick of the half apology by Rangers fans, "Yes we deserved punishment but how are these sanctions fair?" Given that the judgement was made with the quote "only match fixing would have been more serious." (A punishment then endorsed by another panel and another judge). I now give you the opportunity to say exactly what "fitting" sanctions you would have applied and accepted under that damning verdict, I don't want to hear a word about guilt/nonguilt, the verdict is passed in that regard, just merely thoughts on the punishment, Rangers fans, bias or otherwise, the floor is yours...

If you dont like what RANGERS fans are saying on the RANGERS rumours site mate then jump on another one. Simples. They are entitled to say what they like (within reason) as are you. Dont come on here expressing your disgust when you can just as easily visit another site. Catch my drift?

Now that the season is over, i think a new realisation is dawning. the rangers apologists in the press are now looking foolish ,at least. terry butcher needs rangers ? of course he does. sandy jardine needs rangers ? of course he does. its becoming clearer what has gone on here and the scale of it is just breathtaking. there will be no rangers in the spl next year. the fans of the spl clubs will not have it. there is a groundswell rising and not just across the city. the people of this country are not taking kindly to the robbery which has been committed against them by this football club. i cant believe the number of hard working tax paying rangers supporters who are going along with this criminality. wake up and take control of this.

@1

" They are entitled to say what they like "
" Dont come on here expressing your disgust"

Isn't expressing his disgust a case of him saying what he likes ?

jimi88

This is the OP, to 1) I wasn't just talking about reading Rangers fans indignation solely in here, I was talking phone-in's, newspapers, Rangers fans I know etc etc. To date I have always found here a reasonably sane place to encourage debate, I have many, many posts in here that Rangers fans have agreed with. Oh and by the way "a bit sick of" and disgust are not the same thing but remarkably (yet again) still no answer on what would have been "fitting" sanctions. It's like nailing custard to a wall getting an answer to that perfectly reasonable question.

@OP.
I personally do not feel any "guilt" or otherwise. Emarrassed ..yes, to the extent of having been conned as a supporter for thirty eight years.
Embarrassed by the actions of a few corrupt businessmen. Spitting blood at the fact that a reknowned and knighted individual threw our football club to the wolves,to save his own skin,and business empire.
If you consider this as an excuse,then fine,"guilty" as charged. But you did open up the floor. As for the punishment..I'd go for the procedures and protocols that are in existence at the start of each season,not retrospective punishments.
@2
What have the Rangers fans to take control of exactly?
In case it has escaped your philasophical/blinkered.. analytical/biased mindset,RFC are in ADMINISTRATION.
WHEN and IF we find out who is backing Mr Green,IF they hang around,WHAT their proposals are, WHEN we find out the results of the various investigations,reports,and sanctions.
IF and WHEN a share issue is proposed we will be ready support it.
Then, and only then, we will be in a stronger position to "take control" of our own thought processes.
Previously O.B.

@3: and if the 'crime' has never been committed in the Scottish game before, and if the punishments in place already were not deemed sufficient, should there be no punishment?

We do agree and we have answered several times what we think are reasonable punishment.Difference is the only punishment you lot think is reasonable is no more rangers and guess what m8 we aint going to agree with u on that one.

OP again, @ 5, and 7 for that matter. I agree that the SFA/SPL did not have some of the rules in place, one noticeable exemption being a quarterly check on PAYE which the English leagues have but like every body, every regulatory force, sometimes things come along that haven't been foreseen, some should be, PAYE checks was a no-brainer for me but even the US Constitution has AMENDMENTS and that is what the current fiasco at Ibrox has uncovered. The constant evolving of how clubs pay players etc has led to archaic laws looking just that, archaic. It needed changing, moreso because it involves a big club and an unprecedented level of debt in the Scottish game. For the record 5 you stated existing rules and punishments would have been fine, I presume this includes the 10 pts deduction for going into administration and therefore quashes any possibility of a tainted title? Also Dundee had a player embargo, so no problem with that either I presume?

O.P. #5 here.
Read my post, i answered your question.
Not the answer you were looking for?
Previously O.B.

OP for 7, not for one minute have I wanted Rangers buried, I've been to too many OF games to not want to see more, the fan base etc etc will keep Rangers alive but if you add up all potential misdemeanours this whole thing has uncovered a minor wrist slap won't suffice. As some older Gers will remember from 65 to 86 Rangers teams, good and bad won 2 titles, the prospect of a moderate team for several seasons now surely cant be that unpalatable or is it winning at all costs now that matters? And please don't come up with the non-competitive league nonsense, Celtic during the Rangers nine in a row were a shambles. You won those 9 leagues by an average of just under 7 pts a season. Beating Celtic over the same time period by 99 points, bear in mind the bulk of those seasons were 2 pts a win. So I'll take with a pinch of salt any Rangers fears of a non-competitive league due to any forthcoming further sanctions.

Absolutely the answer I was looking for, thankyou.

OP yes they punishments were fine.But we want our punishment delivered swiftly not drag on and on until the spl sfa figure out whats best for them.We want 2 go to the 3rd div because then hopefully all the bigots who follow our club will dissappear and let the descent fans get back to the football side.Now i know u dont like anyone slagging of your lot but it means we get away from your lot aswell.Playing down in div3 would be a breathe of fresh air.

12 feel free to slag off Celtic, I called them a shambles in post 10 so I think I can take it. I totally agree with you on the punishments but lets face it 1) whatever they decide they have to be sure they are on a sound legal footing 2) with Whyte's expertise at muddying the waters this could take ages to get to the bottom of and finally 3) the SFA and SPL have the potential no win situation of hammering Rangers and others suffer or letting it go and becoming a laughing stock. I don't have the answer to their dilemma, few of us thinking rationally really will, whatever team we support. But sure I do sympathise with the long term endurance of this decent Rangers fans have been subjected to.

21 May 2012 18:13:56

SPL chief exec Neil Doncaster says he's not sure why such a distinction is being drawn between cva and newco exit from admin.

ND: "Newcos have been allowed in Uk football for many years. Typically way businesses in general escape administration."

ND: "punishing clubs for entering admin, when then they achieve sporting advantage, they should receive sporting penalty, seems logical."

Overwhelming fans reaction has been to oppose newco. Is that because creditors have no choice in matter, unlike cva.

So there you have it Celtic fans, newco has been around for years in the U.K. clubs don't lose history. As for the company number Leeds don't have the same company number they were formed with yet are still the same club.


Here is a c&p of Leeds utd 2 companiy numbers old and new.

Leeds New Co company number 05765697

Leeds Old Co company number 05334247

If anyone wants to check this out go on the companies house website, it's all in black and white on there.

Every newo has agreed a cva - english f.a law is different to sfa.
they must pay all football related debts in full as per football creditor rule. this does not apply in scotland.

WOW, after everything your club has done and is going through you would think you would wait to see what happens. instead any little bit of news that could be good for yous you come on and say there you go. first off stop bringing Celtic into everything(and trust that we care more about our club and how great it is and how PROUD of a history we have for we are heading in the right direction and up to way bigger things then your club) and second you should be alot more carefull with your words because you look like an idiot. he never said anything along the lines of you will keep your history, the word "could" seems to escape your mind and what it really means. how much of the broom is left because by now with all the clutching at the straws i would think there is nothing left to wipe up any logic.
as you start to celebrate(wait till tmr when it seems somehting new comes out to damper yous) dont forget that there are alot more things coming out and at the level it seems yous have been cheating, then surley there is nothing to stop yous from losing your club/history.however if you do keep it then you can be know as the biggest cheats/corrupt/worse (and it goes on) club in football history...so enjoy that one, would you still be proud or want that history?

Doncaster is wrong. english and scottish law differs. actually for an sfa official to quote an english example is ridiculous. as far as football is concerned england is as foreign as lithuania. he should be careful, fifa might see a way to unite the national sides if he carries on spouting garbage like this. as for rangers history, it now contains the misappropriation of tax, n.i. an vat due to her majesty's revenue and customs which was deducted from employees wages. thought you might like to get that removed.

@3
Three thing's i would want removed are the debt..and Two titles..
"Murray" park, and
"The Rangers FC Group Ltd"
Previously Optimistic bear

@OP...im poster #2 and was just wondering as i said what till tmr when something else comes out...well looks like one of your major war chest funding person has walked out and was just wondering are you still braggin? for how long do you think it will take until green even is gone and no one is there to help yous, cause looks more and more like liq and no club or history....waiting for your reply on how today is tasteing for you?

21 May 2012 20:25:04
For the person who said rangers youth players are good enough well I belive that rangers came 5th in the under 19s this season which you think is good enough to play in rangers first team?

Counts for nothing. Pointless argument. How come Celtic's youth players aren't good enough to get into the first team even though they won the u19 league?

Rangers and Celtic's youth set-up leaves a lot to be desired.

TTG

Ya your right for we didnt win the youngster of the year which came from our youth team eh, or have 3-4 players play in the first team this season. how many have yous used? not trying to start somthing but just needed to open your eyes a wee bit since you dont take notice or fail to reconize how good of an overall team Celtic have.

@1, ??????
maybe the first team has just won the premier league ?
on a serious note. i watched both legs of airdrie v dumbarton play off on alba. didnt understand a word of the commentary ,to my shame, ( my great grandmother couldnt speak english, only gaelic). but i thouroughly enjoyed it. dumbartons ground must be in the most picturesque setting in the uk. there were some pretty hardened old pros and some good young players in those games and with all due respect i doubt any team of u19s would beat either of them, never mind the spl. there is no chance of a youth team coming anywhere other than last in the spl.

21 May 2012 17:01:33
Billionaire businessman Donald Trump �walked away� from a deal to buy Rangers Football Club.

Trump, who is building a golf course and resort at the Menie Estate in Aberdeenshire, backed out of investing in the Ibrox side because of the depth of the club�s financial problems.

A source close to Trump told the Press and Journal: �We looked seriously and walked away.

�It just did not make sense to us, although they are a great club.

21 May 2012 16:02:51
Stv have announced that the financial advisor to the consortium is Imram Ahmed, and that one of the consortium is Javed Abdullah. Imram Ahmed while at Allenby Capitol Ltd , who are brokers for Weather Lottery (biased in Doncaster) provided rangers with online betting & lotto services 2010 .in court ibrox claim that the Doncaster gambling buisiness owed £30000 in unpaid profits. Additionally two of Weather lotterys employees were found guilty of fraud with the loss of£789,000 in July of 2011.
You couldn't make this lot up . Anyone who seems to be connected to the finances of rangers seem to all have very colourfull back grounds. This is also unique that an individual who is the financial advisor to a company , which was sued by a company is now involved with the takeover of a stricken company.
This seems toget worse and worse by the day.
Suicidal.

Most business men have a 'colourful' background but are not under the microscope in the way anyone connected to Rangers are right now.

21 May 2012 13:43:02
The extent of Rangers cheating Scottish and European clubs to be revealed on Panorama, BBC 1 on Wednesday. Mr Doncaster has had an advanced screening and his due to make an emergency statement today.

If failing to pay tax obligations was just short of the most serious punishment we'll see what the outcome of this is.

This is all hearsay.nobody has seen it.

Wow! Don't you have any other interests in your life. Rangers...Panorama...boring!

Codswallop from another sheep. No such statement from Doncaster. In fact Doncaster tonight implied Rangers had already been punished by being docked 10 pts.Can't you lot think for yourself ?

@2: I'm pretty sure many Rangers fans will be watching on Wednesday night. Will that make them boring too?

21 May 2012 15:03:29
Donald Trump has revealed that he was seriously looking at buying Rangers but decided to walk away. If only... But, on the other hand, I think that Green's consortium is brilliant. It's the transfer embargo holding us back now, as well as trying for a CVA very late (although a CVA is a great option, with it being so late it may not work).

Simon_RFC

If someone owed you £100 and offered you £8,would you accept or liquidate them? What if this company had cheated tax? Would you walk away?

Good point but if it was 2m or nothing then what?

21 May 2012 10:10:32
Iam a serious thinker,
Someone posted that national team not qualified for a tournament since spl formed in 1998,
My counter to that is we have had 2 uefa cup finals,last 16 of champs lge,& scotland won cup,
Me personaly would like to see a 2 leage system in scotland everybody play eachother twice,3 up 3 down,
I think it would see better sponsership all round,help make more of a competition,
1,6 in championship are epl ready,if not more,

I was the one who raised the fact that Scotland had not qualified for a major tournament since SPL formed and you are right to point out about uefa cup finals etc but this was done with teams full of foreigners i was trying to point out that the SPL may be having a detrimental effect on youth development after all pre SPL Rangers,Celtic,Dundee Utd and Aberdeen had European success with teams made up of predominately home grown players.

Lochaber Bear

I would agree with that. I think it would improve the standard of football abit with the lower teams. Also what about a playoff for the third spot just like in championship. Generates extra money for those clubs and adds a bit of interest into the lower teams. Final would get air time on tv.
Don

2 leagues of 18 pro teams. More than enough with the limited audience in Scotland. Either teams merge or drop to part-time football. Change to a summer league and try to grow the brand. The SPL and SFL need to think outside the box and give up trying to compete with bigger league structures. All IMO of course. CheltBlue

Lochaber bear i know what your saying mate but 6 of our starting eleven in the final were scottish and we finished with 7 scots on the pitch that day pal....and if i remember correctly when we made the last 16 of the champions league a certain Ross Macormack scored the goal against porto to put us through...so IMO I dont think we have really hurt the national team that much in the last 6 to 10 years the advocaat years were the ones that didnt help our national team on our front...

Tam-Sir 1873

21 May 2012 07:10:50
Phone tap report from 2001, was Murray involved.


Daily Record Story from Jan 2001

Byline: Colin Wilson

chief executive Allan MacDonald was at the centre of a bugging alert yesterday after a listening device was found at his home.

The surveillance equipment capable of listening into his phone conversations was uncovered after the Parkhead club called in espionage experts.

They were ordered to electronically sweep the homes of senior executives at the club for bugs in an astonishing security operation.

Mr MacDonald, who is standing down today after a turbulent spell in charge of Celtic, confirmed the checks uncovered an illegal receiver.

It was immediately reported to the Home Office.

He said: �Signals from a receiving device in the vicinity of my home were found. No-one can say if it was being used to listen into my phone conversations but it would have been capable of doing so.

�I was surprised, but not greatly, since I had known for some time that someone had been tapping into my mobile phone to listen into my messages.�

The experts in industrial espionage industrial espionage

Acquisition of trade secrets from business competitors. Industrial spying is a reaction to the efforts of many businesses to keep secret their designs, formulas, manufacturing processes, research, and future plans. called in by Celtic reported the unlicensed receiving device to the Home Office after uncovering its signal in or near Mr MacDonald�s home in Edinburgh.

The bug could have been set up in a nearby home or in a car parked outside.

The Home Office refused to discuss the investigation into the bug, which was found about five months ago.

But one source suggested MI5 agents would routinely be alerted to any evidence of unauthorised electronic eavesdropping Secretly gaining unauthorized access to confidential communications. Examples include listening to radio transmissions or using laser interferometers to reconstitute conversations by reflecting laser beams off windows that are vibrating in synchrony to the sound in the room. .

The discovery has prompted speculation of a dirty tricks dirty tricks campaign being waged against Celtic.

Mr MacDonald refused to guess who might have been using the receiver.

He said: �Concerns about industrial esponiage were first aired when Fergus McCann is a Scottish-born Canadian businessman and entrepreneur.

McCann�s wealth stemmed initially from a golf vacation company, based in Montreal and Phoenix, Arizona. He is best known for his involvement in Celtic F.C., the football club based in Glasgow, Scotland.

�There was a certain amout of paranoia that apparently private conversations were somehow getting into the public domain.

�There were never any listening devices found at the stadium .

�But the fact that it was felt necessary to sweep my home only underlines the unease at the club about how information was being obtained by others.�

If DM has been up to these tricks, and it looks increasingly like he has, it way way beyond a joke. I'm a 'tic man, this type of behaviour was done by an individual not Rangers. Let's hope he gets what's coming to him for what he's done to both clubs.

Oh dear.Celtic paranoia again? Well no,cz they found a device.

Were the media involved looking for stories from McDonald?

Most likely the good old news of the world,mark daley trying very hard to create as much scandal as possible to gain publicity for his documentary,theres no need for one club to be tapping another clubs phone regarding transfer targets when agents are touting their players to the highest bidder.mr daley is dropping his wee bits of scandal to anyone who'll listen to try and boost his viewing figures.

I have heard the BBC have documents from Murrays failed Newspaper, The Sunday Scot, a Private detective was used to listen in on Celtic so the Newspaper would be first with every breaking news story from Parkhead, thus making the paper an overnight success in the west coast for both half of the old firm as Murray would also have news from Rangers straight from the horses mouth, the bug found put a stop to news leaks from Celtic and The Sunday Scot folded after 14 weeks.

Pmsl, where's Clark Kent when you need him. You guys are truly the masters of conspiracy.

21 May 2012 04:39:08
celtic fan coming in peace

listen lads im in the same business as mr whyte.

it was not his fault club is potentially collapsing

it is on hindsight i believe that MR MURRAY, should be held accountable for deceiving the hardworking blue collar man, who pays xy and z to their season ticket duty.

fight this with all your pride. ur heritage should never be compromised due to bad financial management