Rangers Banter Archive April 25 2013

 

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25 Apr 2013 20:37:27
We can only hope that King is serious about attempting to gain a controlling stake in Rangers. The guy is a seriously heavy hitting Ranger of which are few and far between. Any notion of McColl was always a bit suss. From what we are led to believe the original £5.5m was loose change to him so why let it go over the edge if you are a true Ranger?.

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My god this mindset needs to change. heavy hitting Ranger and true Ranger? how about a good honest businessman that will behave with financial prudence? Why are the fans not mobilising and looking to really flex their muscle? The power is with the fans, just like when Green took over, don't lose it this time.

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Think what you need is a bluenose Fergus Mc Cann, to tell you EXACTLY what he is going to do before he even start's
Tam

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25 Apr 2013 18:20:47
LSE comments after todays business;

Rangers International Football Club Plc in disarray as it suffers losses of -2. 52%. The stock opened stable against the previous close, but then gradually declined in the course of the session, closing downbeat near the day's lowest level. The technical scenario for Rangers International Football Club Plc in the last week shows the security lagging behind the UK FTSE All Share. As compared to the related index, the security has shown a lower performance.

Only a matter of time before shares are suspended company has lost over 1/3 of its value since Jan. If any bears out there are't concerned about the short term future never mind medium/long term then its time to sit up and take notice!

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Trading volume was only 24 thousand shares which works out around 14000 pounds - not a lot going on there really.

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Keep reading all the posts and its like a broken record,. we need to take notice. we demand answers. we must stand up and be counted. we must march to ibrox. we must demand answers. we must demand the truth. demand to see the deeds. blah blah blah. BUT GUESS WHAT. your all sittin on here doing fk all. talk talk talk. no action no marches to ibrox. NOTHING. now you have another english sheister in sayin he always loved rangers. jist the same sh**te that came oot greens mooth. get a fkn grip you gullible persons. gary

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It's actually worse mate the last five trades, three of them went for 57.
The price needs to adjust to that tomorrow. Also C shares were dumped at 57. 17 not just O ordinary shares.

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@2 Gary why don't you lead them, thought not
Tam

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25 Apr 2013 15:15:58
whyte - Tax evasion
Green - Fraud?
Dave King - Fraud? Tax evasion?
Murray - EBT?
Easdale family - one jailed for tax evasion

How about we get investors/owners that haven't been accused of Tax evasion/Fraud?

Matt

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25 Apr 2013 18:22:31
Malcolm Murray saying he's behind Mathers unanimous board vote and both saying finances are great.
Shower of disingenuous scheming bar stewards. Mathers is Greens protege.

£1m a month every month, lost. And that's great is it? Various businessmen, bill miller, Forbes Business Magazine, Ng,. there's a £20-£30m black hole and zero cost restructuring done.

The £22m share money is for Capital investment strategies such as stadium improvement and team strengthening. Not paying directors bonuses, expenses and legal costs. Evidence of the £22m is needed.

Whyte and his people clearly were involved in buying the club. Don't lie to us. And what nonsense has McCoist and smith been up to?

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It is a disgrace. Why did Murray not tell how much is actually left of the IPO cash? Soft soap press calls will not cut any more. The whole place needs gutted, from Murray to McCoist and every one in between.

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25 Apr 2013 14:45:17
Now the fun starts! SFA seeking clarity on green and whytes links. Another unlawful punishment heading rangers way possibly or my worry, the licence. more worrying times ahead. PB

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Its only unlawful if they do not follow there own rules.

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I think you mean lawful punishment mate.

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It's rangers out of order again mate. Bringing themselves and football again into disrepute.
Giving assurances/ promises, breaking those. Listen the Green rhetoric of they're all against us is finished. Don't go there.

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In scotland and even bigger us in england, clubs get into financial trouble its not us the fans that do it its these people that run clubs at board level, and us the season ticket holders that get our hearts broke, we at hillsborough had to see glenn whelan, chris brunt etc sold to pay our tax and we were very close to administration, if milan had not come in heaven knows where we would be a journey of a thousand miles begins with a single step, I know for a fact our u9, u10 and u11 are at last getting funding we ok, I lived in glasgow for 2 years when I was a young lad and rangers will always be my scottish club, you normal fans don't deserve what's going off at your club, I hope you get the right owner what you rightly deserve your future is your young lads they will have rangers in their hearts, and soul give em time and encourage them, good luck.

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@OP: if it's proven that there was a link and the licence was gained under false pretences, do you think it would be unlawful for it to be withdrawn?

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@5 if it was gained through lies then its the SFA's call but it will be the end of Rangers.
When I referred to unlawful punishment I was referring to the transfer embargo and the court ruling.
Whatever way you look at it there is big trouble ahead on all fronts for Rangers. PB

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This new episode will run for months. Apparently Green cannot sell his shares until December. Duff and Phelps have a court case against Collyer Bristow.

'The legal firm appointed by Craig Whyte to conduct his takeover of Rangers is facing damages claims of at least £25m from the club's administrators.
Duff & Phelps is claiming the cash from legal firm Collyer Bristow over its role in Rangers' administration. '

BDO are working away in the background along with the Polis who are enquirying into CW.
CW is meant to be appealing the Ticketus ruling for the £17m, the judge who made the ruling didn't hold out much hope for him. HMRC are awaiting the appeal against the FTTT ruling which is against the oldco, but they need a win for a variety of reasons.
RFC are carrying out an investigation into CG, others and CW. This new mob, Worthington Group plc purchased 26 per cent of Law Financial Ltd which is the CW company that claims to have sevco 5088 as a subsiduary, who have bought some of CW's company have sent info to the Fraud Squad about Green and Ahmed. Whyte's been mouthing off about taking Green to court.
Sevco 5088 show CW as a Director and on the same date he resigns, he is disputing this, surprise surprise. It's in Company house record 9th May 2012 I think.
SFA are now asking questions about CW after CG had to give them unequivocal assurances CW was not involved.
I think there will be more to come and all this with the season ticket renewals, share value dropping nice time to do a deal for shares, coincidence or what? and the start of a new season in 3/4 months, does anyone think CW is trying to get a payment to go away?
At the end of the day I am more interested in seeing RFC get back on track in the boardroom and having the truth come out about this whole sorry affair - who knew?
From this list what points have RFC caused themselves? D&P appointed the sevco5088. but we are bang in the middle.
All these spivs don't give a toss about the ordinary fan but I wouldn't mind meeting them just for a wee word like.

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N7 there must be a fair chance of a few of these people endin up in the jail they would get through the system fairly quick with them being classed as white collared prisoners but theyde be seen at sometime can't be watched 24 7 just saying like tmwnn

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25 Apr 2013 14:34:31
Will some of you please at least attempt to engage your brain before spouting off nonsense?

You don't need a new owner as such, you just need reputable people owning a mass of the shares. What is this obsession with one owner, hasn't that led to this shambles in the first and second place? The more diverse that share ownership is, arguably the better.

However there is one drawback to more fan power regards Rangers and I always laugh when I watch Braveheart. The council of Scottish Lords is meeting and Brendan Gleason's character Hamish says. "Nest of scheming b*****ds! They couldn't agree on the colour of sh*te!"

And to some extent that is the Rangers fanbase summed up in a nutshell. You have more supporters groups/trusts than some clubs have fans, that tells you two things, you have a huge support and that "they couldn't agree on the colour. "

But if you will insist on this saviour sugar daddy approach kindly, for your own sanity and not mine, factor in this.

Dave King still has 322 outstanding charges to answer, 322 FFS!

Why would anyone, King, McColl, Kennedy shell out £40-£45m for a club they could have bought last year for less than £10m? After the CVA that was all it would have taken (had D&P been playing from a straight deck, which is debatable).

Last year post CVA a license, what division etc was very much still up for debate so their reluctance was understandable albeit most of us did expect Rangers to be playing in some form. This year is anyone any more assured?

Green's Whyte connection could have license revoking repercussions, the club is losing £1m a month. Bill Miller reckoned there was a £30m black hole in the club and he probably wasn't too far of the mark given the losses. These guys are successful businessmen for a reason.

You also know the club has a popular, nearly unsackable manager who a) is very poor at his primary job and b) will fight necessary cuts tooth and nail, with some degree of board backing by the sounds of it, who needs that hassle? He is making the club every bit as unappealing as any number of other issues. Because, inevitably, there will be some form of a backlash on whomever finally says bye bye Ally, merited or not.

So I ask again why would anyone buy this club at £40-£45m when they could have got it much cheaper with perhaps even less uncertainty than there is this year?

Gaz

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Gaz, HMRC made damn sure no-one in their right mind would of come in for us. £120 million debt? And how much did it actually end up? SDM would of had no problem selling to respected buyers if what we know now was common knowledge then. IMO. CheltBlue

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I partly agree Cheltblue but regardless of the BTC the actual debt was still £54m at that point, some of which was down to Whyte naturally. But after the failed CVA it was bought for £5.5m, no one who turned their nose up at that is going to pay £40-£45m now.

Gaz

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CheltBlue - SDM could have gaurenteed any debt to HRMC in order to sell.


He did not - he too scared, when he runs a Billion dollar company?? And took £6 million in EBT alone.

He is running scared and buying time - that's all.

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@Cheltblue

HMRC are appealing the first-tier ruling. they might well win. The uncertainty will continue until all avenues of appeal (on both sides) have been exhausted. No serious investor will look at rangers until then.

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Don't forget HMRC haven't gone away, with regard to tax fraud/evasion, HMRC are appealing, HMRC are determined to win this particular case and wouldn't be appealing if there was no case to answer.
J

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Good points guys, 4 and 5, yes HMRC are still appealing but against oldco. It has no bearing now on current investment. Gaz I like your posts, £40 mill is about right without any of the tax burdens and playing in the SPL with a 23 man squad and trying to win trophies. CheltBlue

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So its ok for foreign millionaires to come here, make more millions, enjoy the facilities and infrastructure of the country as well as the protection of the police etc. and then enter into a scheme to avoid paying the tax which pays for all of this? HMRC were right to pursue it and should have won. these scroungers should be hounded until they pay.

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@ Cheltblue, that is seemingly the current stock exchange value (£40-£45m) were you to buy every share. I just can't see anyone forking out that amount that was linked last year when they could have got it last year much cheaper. Cheers mate.

McCann came into Celtic at exactly the right time, in other words when it had under-utilised potential. I remember the days of literally being up to your ankles in p*sh at Parkhead, surrounding area was a dump, he invested in a 60,000 all seater, improved the team (a bit) and walked off with millions.

The infrastructure at Ibrox is already in place, as is Murray Park, nobody with honest intent is going to make a quickish buck here. This is a labour of love or deceit in the short term for anyone but deep pockets or swingeing cuts will be required for a rosey ending.

Gaz

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4) & 5)


It does not really make one iota of a difference if HMRC win the appeal. The oldco is no longer and there is no right of recovery against newco in any way.

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N5 hmrc are not apealling they are asking for room to appeal in other words they have to convince 3 high court judges that they hmrc never lead their evidence properly first time round cause hmrc are not allowed to lead new evidence in other words they have more chance of hitting the sun with a snowball tmwnn

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Has it not occurred to you that nobody has shown the deeds, because nobody has them they have been legally withheld by HMRC pending appeal outcome!

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If someone had said to me, say, 5 years ago that Rangers FC were going to be liquidated in a few years time, I would have said to them, "there's more chance of hitting the sun with a snowball"!

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Has it not occured to you davidmurray still owns deeds he never sold rangers at all

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25 Apr 2013 12:18:27
Murray was "surprised" at how quick CW took Rangers into Administration? How, was he surprised? he knew it was happening, and a corporate raider like CW took Route 1 - don't pay VAT, NI, or Tax. simples. HMRC will force you into adim. Surprise - no. It stinks.

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I think that Murray's main thinking process was that he needed to get rid as quickly as possible so as to stop the rest of his businesses from going under. The bank was about to pull the plug and he had to do whatever he was told.
However he would have known what kind of an operator Whyte was and if he did then by selling to him he did not not act as he should have done as a custodian of the club.

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His words on TV were he was surprised how quickly it happened. Which means he was expecting it to happen but a bit later.

Whyte had stated he should have done it earlier. Which is true and correct. If Whyte had gone into admin earlier (before not paying NI and PAYE) then HMRC would have accepted a CVA.

SDM COULD HAVE HANDED THE EXISTING BOARD THE CLUB FOR £1. But Lloyds might not have got its Ticketus money.

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Whyte went into admin year 1 - because rangers failed to make CL!

otherwise admin would have happened next year CL missed - simples.

if spending £12 mill more than earning each year, you can only last as long as your assets (ibrox) allow.

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25 Apr 2013 10:28:29
Yet more bad press for our club. Now the serious fraud office are involved and I can see no end to all this for months/ years to come. I'm totally fed up reading and hearing bad news stories that destabilize the fragile re building process and I'm fed up with all the tax dodgers, liars and shady businessmen trying to make a quick buck by all and every underhand means. We don't want you.

We used to look forward to reading about the match and have experienced the highs and lows of football at home and in Europe but that's what football should be about. Prior to Mr. Whites acquisition, Rangers Football Club paid its taxes to HMRC and other creditors and had a great reputation however all of this has been destroyed since Mr. D Murray sold the club, its assets, its reputation and tradition to him for 1p.

We were told that Rangers would only be sold to the right person to take it forward however it is my understanding that Mr. White specialized in liquidation, administration and asset stripping of companies. Hardly the person to lead the club to a better future but was this a coincidence I have my own opinion. The whole administration process from White to D&P to Charles Green stinks to high heaven.

Team performances have on the whole been very poor but I fear that this may be insignificant if the comments of John BROWN hold up and I have no reason to disbelieve him. We read that White may own the stadium and training ground and we may have to lease it back from him. Never i'd rather play in the streets or ground share. The possibility of White ever setting foot anywhere near IBROX or making anymore money from his shading dealings in our famous club are too much to stomach.

As John BROWN said " show us the deeds"

We need decent honorable and respected people on the board and owning our club and hopefully we can take our time rebuild and live within our means even if it takes 20 years to get there.

Respect, Standards and Integrity MUST be the way forward enough of the cheats liars and charlatans.

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Very noticeable that you avoided criticizing David Murray. Why? This whole sorry mess was started by him. He was the one who interlinked his companies with Rangers to maximize his profits.
As you say, Murray did say he would only sell to the right person. You then use the word 'coincidence' in regards to Whyte. Why? Do you really believe that Murray did not know the business Whyte was in? After adminiatration occured Murray was quoted on TV as saying, when asked about Whyte putting the club into administratio, 'he was surprised how quickly he did it' This intimates that Murray knew it was inevitable. The reason he sold the Club in fact. It is time for hard questions to be asked of people who have taken a lot of money out of Ibrox. If John Brown is to be believed, and like you I have no reason to doubt him, Walter and Ally are in as deep as anyone. They have enjoyed the respect and trust of the fans, if they knew there was anything dodgy about Green why did they not check him out? A nice cheque every month perhaps? Or a load of shares maybe?

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Everyone laughed at john Brown on here when green took over, what a fickled bunch.

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OP not trying to rub salt on open wounds but its this head in the sand mentality that is a millstone round your clubs neck. It is a matter of fact that David Murray admitted liability in approx 30 cases where your club failed to pay tax owed. The FFFT case was the majority of the total number of cases brought by HMRC.

I do wish your club the best of luck in trying to sort itself out but please open your eyes mate Murray is as much responsible for the mess rangers are in as Green or White. In fact given John Browns revelations last night that McCoist and Smith knew about the clubs predicament I would start worrying about just how deep the responsibility lies.

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@op the fraud squad haven't confirmed their involved plus people involved with cw there hardly people am gonnae trust so until then please stop talkin piss we know rangers are in a bad state but it'll get sorted

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25 Apr 2013 08:59:18
Time to wake up, we need our club back. Let our voices be heard, let them hear our cry!

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Boys, I beleive its time to show these individuals that WE no longer want excuses, - No more lies, No more spin Crap! - we need to stop going to Ibrox un til we get concrete proof who owns our club! - we have for too long listened and backed these men - we have been foolish - but we have learned a lesson! - WE ARE RANGERS!

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As I asked before. what can we do?

Should the supporters groups be organising aome sort of demo?

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And where have you been for 18 months? It might well be to late.

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Honest Business men have nothing to fear.

Dishonest Business men hide as much as possible.

If Green bought ibrox from D&P using Sevco Scotland legally why not release contract negociated to do this. ? what's to loose in a legally binding legally valid contract

But greens does not do this. and this begs question why?

is the contract between D&P and Green legally sound - well if its hidden hard to prove one way or another. in meantime this could be red herring and distraction from the real con. ?

at least latest COO put up £1million - far better than green and his £25k.

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@1/ We have learned a lesson? What would that be? Warnings were everywhere about Whyte, these were ignored, it was tims stirring. Then Green arrived, same stories same attitude. This time though Sheffield Utd fans were telling everyone that Green was a rogue, ignored again.
@2/ The supporters groups? Are you serious? Twice now they have started to mobilise, twice they have been invited to the Blue Room for tea and a custard cream, and twice they have backed total chancers. To that group add Bloggers like McMurdo, Graham and Leggat, All backed the two regime changes. a lot of fans trust these guys to get accurate information. FFS! celtic Bloggers had it all right while this mob were waving flags for Green! No season ticket money is a must till the ownership issue is proved without doubt.

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The best thing you can do, is start your own club like some off the Man Utd fans did. Maybe rent Clydes ground as they are moving anyway.

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If fans paid ST money into a trust - and it handed over money en bloc (£8million a year) - that trust could get seat on board.

easy - but there are tooo many fan reps.

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@8 and how is the NEW club supposed to survive without this money to tie it over with? By the time you have enough the club will be long gone!

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@1 so you are Rangers, but your going to boycott them in their hour of need, you have to fight to get these people out of your club and the real fan's take it over, not someone who will use it as his toy but someone who care's
Tam

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25 Apr 2013 08:56:10
"Lots of Expensive Metals in Ibrox Stadium". what planet are you on? It will cost a fortune to touch Ibrox due to Asbestos. The guy who owned the World Trade Centre found it cheaper to blow it up than modernise it!

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You are kidding yourself mate. Bigger buildings with bigger problems have been stripped.

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1) yes, they have been stripped, much bigger buildings. But Rangers have no money to do that do they? Are you proposing a new diluted share issue to raise 30 million to strip Ibrox of Asbestos?

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@2/ What? Rangers would not pay for it. It would be BDO who would have to work the financials of the deal out. Do you know how demolition works? When a demolition company price a job for tender they have guys who work out the salvage costs to the pound. Ibrox is full of solid oak panelling, Marble and huge amounts of steel. They could sell the pitch off in foot square pieces as memorabilia, there is huge money in the break up of Ibrox if no one wanted to buy as a stadium.

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Murray Park would get £8m tomorrow easily. That's how it's hard to figure how it went with everything else for £5.5m! It's actually worth £15m.

Did £5.5m actually change hands?

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Please, scrap steel is worth far less than Ibrox standing as a football stadium. Honestly, whoever is spouting this rubbish about scrap is very dhim indeed. CheltBlue

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@ Cheltblue; I am afraid it is you who are very dim mate. What if a venture capitalist purchases Ibrox from BDO in an open sale? A stadium might not be of any use to them. So. can you guess what they might do? They would sell the land and strip the carcass to maximize profit. Ibrox standing only has worth as a football ground. So forget the celtic digs mate, try and think outside your wee box. Your attitude is why the club is in this state.

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My attitude of not believing Ibrox will be sold for scrap is fairly correct. Housing, Tescos, yes. Scrap? No mate. To continue as a sporting venue of high standards, yes. To give in to hoopies telling us we're dead everyday for 2 years, no. Never. CheltBlue

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@ 6, I watched a program about a an oil platform getting broken down for scrap in gateshead, a platform constructed mainly of steel. The rig had been delivered to the scrap yard so no costs incurred by the scrap company and they still claimed that the price of breaking it down far outweighed any money made from the scrap metal. They only recycle the materials as it is the right thing to do enviromentaly and no other reason. The land at ibrox is hardly prime real estate and the materials its built from are not financialy viable to dismantle and sell for scrap. What I do agree with is these assets are worth more than the 5.5 million greens group payed for them, when you think of that figure of 5.5m and then think back to how badly green wanted to keep the likes of davis, mcgregor and co, he bought our entire club, stadium, training ground and playing squad for 5.5m. That amount is less than we would have been asking for mcgregor alone. All he had to do was sell one player for true market value and he would have recouped his groups total investment. This was always going to pan out to be a scam, I have held the belief that if ran properly our club with the fanbase it has could return a profit year on year. I think its time our club was just that a club, teams in germany take money in membership fees to sustain levels of spending outwith normal revenue streams ie season tickets. Yearly membership fees I think could be great for a club with our size of fanbase, I don't think asking fans who don't go to ibrox regularly for one reason or another for say 100 pound a year for a membership is to much. i'm sure fans in the us and oz aswell as the thousands we have living in england would like the chance to give something back for the team they support. Yet greean with all his bluster about dallas cowboys and untapped revenue streams did not even consider this. I just wish we could unite as a fanbase and push issues like this to the table, as loyal and as vast as we are we need leadership to force this mentality to the masses, to many people believing the drip fed info we get from the current corrupted regime.

Scunnered bear

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25 Apr 2013 06:55:21
Never been one for protest as it hurts the club

but we. the fans need to take action or we are taken for mugs and will look even more stupid by sitting about doing nothing and looking to see who will save us.

No fans at away or home matches until questions answered.

who owns ibrox. prove what were buying in to

cant prove it. once and for all

as for all those so called rangers men. fly with the crows you are a crow!

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It hurts the club. the club is slowly dying. We must do something. unfortunately season ticket money is our only weapon at the moment.
They must listen to us this time.
Gordo

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"the club is slowly dying"?. The club already died last year!
B MC

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25 Apr 2013 04:02:00
Dear Bears you can tell how bad our situation is when you see celtic fans are NOW sick of what we are going through. It is like when one of our greats like Cooper or Burns sadly died. Fans came together. What Rangers FC and us the poor punters are having done to us by the CRIMINAL types that are passing our club about like a scud mag in the jail is nothing short of abuse in every form. Abuse of TRUST abuse of POWER and abuse of every tradition our club used to stand for. All my celtic supporting pals enjoyed the lafs the piss taking but like most ordinary people in times like this they side with each other. To a man I hardly know any tims that are enjoying this anymore. bitter types in the minority. They are actually sick for their pals and relatives that are Bears. Seeing us having the heart and soul ripped out our club has actually changed the mood across the city. I just hope we bears can take a leaf out the Tims book and STAND UP AND FIGHT FOR OUR CLUB. If we don't soon we could actually be killed off by these disgusting criminals. Heres to the start and CW being arrested asap followed by whomever the wee C**T grasses up as he surely will. Yours in Rangers. George

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For all the banter from rivals, most football fans just want to see a return to football without all the cloak and dagger stuff from the SPL/SFA.

Yes, people felt Rangers had to be punished, but I think most people were happy with the Div 3 thing. Some wanted more, obviously, but most peopel said. look, they're hurt. It'll take them a while to get back. That's fair enough.

I think most fans see that the new self-inflicted tragedy is too much.

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OP as a fellow Celtic fan well said, I was watching on youtube about Tommy Burn funeral the other day, and some of the first at Parkhead were the Bears bringing their scarfs and shirts paying their respects, it was Rangers men that helped bare him on his last journey. In all our ups and downs from the tragedy of 71 to the loss of the hero's of both clubs at these times we have stood united, it pains me to watch Rangers going through this yes we have all had a bit of a pi** take with our mates, but in the cold light of day this could spell the death of the Old Firm and no one wants that.
Also the talk of ground sharing, Ibrox is a shrine to those who lost their lives there, to leave Ibrox would be disrespectful of their memory.

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@No. 2

The sad reality is that the 'Old Firm' is dead - it died with the original Rangers. Their history can't be taken away but it can't added to either. That's not being bitter, it's just the facts.

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@3 Surprised they let you post this on here as no one gets saying it's a new club. This is another reality to be faced up to. Green said it till he learned what to say to get ticket money in. JT said it many times till he got his new job. Others too said it. The club lives on in everyone's heart but let's be honest for a change. We complain about CW, CG etc not telling the truth but we have to do it too. We will do fine, let's just get on with the future. It may not be what you want to hear but it has to be said.

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N4 the unwashed are always on here telling us its e new club but none of us agree with them so its time to change the record on that time will tell

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25 Apr 2013 00:55:23
Will somebody wake me up when the whole shambles has been sorted out. I am sick fed up of reading and listening to spivs and con men. These people Whyte, Green, King, Easdale, ahmed, and cohorts are NOT the kind of people that should be allowed entry to the inner sanctums of Ibrox. How dare they disgrace the name of Rangers with their money grabbing agenda. They should have no place at the club at all. What happened to the Struth types, good honest men, no convictions for fraud, no prison sentences, no tax dodgers, no liars. I knew Jock Wallace well, he would have personally had each one of them by the throat.

I grew up believing that Rangers did things the right way, they may not have been the best team in the country but they did things properly, the Rangers way, the correct way. What a bloody fool I have been.

I run a business, a small business in the financial sector, where I handle people's hard earned money. I would not let one of these sheisters in my office, not one of them, because my good name is everything to me, and yet this bunch of morally corrupt money grabbers have, or want to run this institution. It is beyond belief.

If I had said to you five years ago that RBS, BoS and Glasgow Rangers would be in trouble, you would have had me carted off by the guys in white coats. denominators are money and greed.

No more of my money will line the pockets of these people. I will not be back until they are gone, every last one of them.
I don't care if we ever get back to the top of the game in this country. I would rather do things properly with morals and ethics.

Morals and ethics, they should all try it sometime.

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You are 100% right mate. Though I think you can add - Andrew Ellis and the £250k 'gift from Whyte' gadgey Eardley. It is just one after the other sadly when picking over a dying carcass you get vultures and vermin. It is going to be a long sad tearful few years for us bears. The only light at the end of the tunnel we are in the lower divisions so we can only hope that if we dump ally and pals act andget a good talrnted backroom staff plus the fans THE ONLY GOOD THING LEFT AT IBROX stick by team then by the time we do reach the top division again that the boardroom are in jail or at least miles away from Ibrox and that we are owned by the fans in partnership with a decent honest businessman like Jim McColl or similar respectable NON fraud/con/jailbird/gadgey/banned director/scum types.
All we can do bears is stick by the team and pray for an honest saviour for our club.

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WAKEY WAKEY, The shambles has been sorted. LOL, only kidding, it's still a shambles, away back to sleep.
JF

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25 Apr 2013 00:15:17
Well I did post a few weeks ago that Ally & Smith where in the know concerning the financial state, deeds etc. bomber was made out to be a madman raving on the steps of ibrox, was derided laughed at, yet bomber screwed the nut after only being in talks with greene!!Once again it was all so called rangers haters etc, once again the writing was on the wall, yet all the desperate of something too hold onto& watp mob, never walk away etc, watched & took for mugs again, many years of storys will be revealed& the rangers won't be rememberd as scotlands league 54 titles. it will be for the toxic element who have ran a club like a casino, never put cash of there own in, yet stroll away with millions, has been still been tooken for mugs, fan power is about 2years too l8. sm

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Sadly what you say is true. From Murray through to Whyte then Green, the warnings were there. If there was one proper journalist in this country this might have been stopped, but for me Ally has to have a look at himself. He backed whyte, he backed green, what was he thinking? Is he a stupid man or just blinded by a huge wage and some shares?

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Op wishful thinking on you're part rangers might be getting hounded by the media without any proof rangers are and always will be the most succesfull club ever to have played football in scotland I think you will need to except that as fact or its the nearest shrink for you

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@2) Your correct about Rangers wether u are of the belief they are deceased or not, they most successful title winners in scotland, no one can ever argue that, the stats say so. You will however be following the OP to the shrink you menioned if you keep believing this is a media frenzy job. This is real son, serious fraud squad are now involved, s*** just got real!

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@2) I'd say you are, as things stand, about a decade away from that comfort blanket being out of date too. To be honest I'm debating it now but I will give you that 10 title lead as having some leeway in the debate but as I say, as things stand are you ruling out 54-54 in a decade's time? I'm not.

Gaz

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@2 your clubs in the mess it's in because you don't want to believe what's actually going on.

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I have been saying for weeks that everything at Ibrox is just a money grabbing exercise for everyone there. Ally Walter etc are all part of it as they were before and will be in future. Rangers are a great way to make your bank balance rise? unless your a fan that is, we only seem to lose lose lose financialy.
I stated we should boycott the last 2 games and march on Ibrox in masse to show them just how powerful we are and always will be.
This lot should hang their heads in shame? do they? no they just appoint another of the money grabbers into top job and think we will meekly go along with it. Very easy show us what we own / Ibrox Murray Park etc on Saturday at the doors of Ibrox that's the easy bit ( if we do own them that is) then fans will start to believe you do care about our club? or sit there making noises about how great our support is, how many titles we have won, how the media is picking on us how the world hates us. all the crap we have already fell for. enough is enough let's bloody topple their walls of silence,,

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2) No Proof.? I think you have been drinking something witha lot of proof! Next you will be saying that fingerprints are not valid, or DNA.

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With regard to this "most successful football club" nonsense, when you consider the facts, Rangers FC were formed in 1872, yes they have indeed won 54 titles (although, a few of these being accomplished under dubious circumstances), after 140 years Rangers FC were liquidated in 2012 and ceased to exist, then consider the fact that Celtic FC were not formed until 1888, 16 years after the formation of Rangers FC, I am of the opinion that when Celtic FC reach that milestone of 140 years, they will have surpassed 54 titles, another factor to be considered is how any football club who has never won the most coveted and highest honour in the game, namely the European Cup or as it is now known, the Champions League Cup could seriously be considered "most successful club in the world" is beyond me, by the way, I am a Partick Thistle fan and very much looking forward to a big Glasgow derby in the forthcoming season.
Jaggy

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Me too mate - there's only two teams in Glasgow.

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N3 it n2 back again if fraud squad have been approched by cw why will they not confirm it the only time they will be speaking to cw is when he is being cautioned and charged with fraud tmwnn

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N4 gaz what you printed is not fact and we will need to wait 10 to see if you're thoughts are for real tmwnn

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N7 its n2 here were have you been for the last few years fingerprints are no longer proof in a court of law tmwnn

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24 Apr 2013 23:37:39
Ahmad on a shoogly peg after claims that he was leaking stories to a Rangers forum, I never thought I'd say this but maybe you are just better doing a Wimbledon or United of Manchester, your club is a total shambles from top to bottom.

Gaz

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This has a very real chance of happening. I don't see how the licence will not be lost.

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Op gaz do you believe everything you read in newspapers maybe true about amhed but that's about it by tmwnn

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@tmwnn actually this story wasn't from a newspaper it was from another Rangers forum making the accusation and a pretty explicit accusation at that. So is that a good enough source for you? And as for believing newspapers, I read something, think about it, research it further, see if holds water and then believe it or not. I suggest you should have tried the same, ages ago.

Three dubious owners in a row and it's still a conspiracy theory or the press or Celtic's fault. Don't you worry mate 15 WATP's, 6 WE DON'T DO WALKING AWAY's, 4 RTID's and a IN ANYONE WE TRUST and it will all just go away, simples, it worked the last twice!

Gaz

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@3 pmsl magic post lol

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24 Apr 2013 22:14:43
Celtic fan but genuinely feel sorry for all the decent rangers fans out there. The one thing that concerns me is the desperate shouts for any Tom Dick or Harry with questionable past to come in and take over. It's time for the fans to take control and clear he decks of all the old crew and defo not let another whyte, green, king or Murray take control again.
I have said before and still believe it is possible (ed may confirm) fans should set up a trust and save the oldco from liquidation. Given the 60% win on the EBT, payment of footballing debts etc the outstanding debts must now be sustantially reduced and cva easily obtainable for less than £10m. Easy on paper but I would suggest.

1) set up fans trust

2)50,000 fans donate £300 giving kitty of £15m

3)post £10m to set up cva with BDO

4)apply to sfa for licence as oldco

5) apply to rejoin league, a few other non league teams would also like to join keeping number even

6) ground share with either St. Mirren, Partick or even choke choke Celtic (time to start building bridges and friendships) this could be done on a month to month basis

7) sign youth players/ best of league 2/3 players to compete/ win league 3, keeping wage bill at decent level

8) Within a few months of not being used the true owners of ibrox will be kicking down the door of the fans trust to try and sell/ get them using ibrox again. Ibrox only has a value to rangers fans, it hasn't got a value for housing (given its location), could the area sustain another supermarket? No, it's inherent value is for rangers playing football in it.

9) continue with this business model to move up the league- ala Gretna- until you regain your place at the top table.


Jd

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Decent post but some flaws.
1# This must happen, and soon
2# £10m would not be accepted. use that, and the sale of murray park as a down payment and negotiate to pay the rest off over time at say £3-5m per year
6# Ibrox would need to be leased back as the fans would need to turnout in force to pull your idea off. The top tiers could be closed to save running costs and until in the top league.
8# Again Ibrox must be leased back, otherwise a venture capitalist could strip the whole place down for break up value. Lots of expensive metals in there.

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Above post youse are now assuming cw is telling truth the guys a born liar all this talk no papers handed to fraud mob by cw new friends until its concrete believe nowt

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@2, "no papers handed to fraud mob". Maybe you shouldn't assume anything yourself. They have neither admitted nor denied that papers had been submitted. They are under no obligation to admit anything to the press about an inquiry. Don't assume that because it has not been admitted that they haven't been submitted.
Next you will be saying that Green and Whyte were not linked.
Al

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24 Apr 2013 23:49:20
45,000 strong protest anyone? If we can turn up in our droves each week to pay to watch awful football then surely we can get a protest together? I suggest we start Saturday instead of going to East Stirling then again for the last home game on the 4th May. I suggest we act with dignity but refuse to enter Ibrox for the final game. We need to get the message through that we are resolute and we will not be renewing or returning until there is a mass clear out from top to bottom. Rightly or wrongly I am not prepared to listen to the excuses of anyone inside Ibrox anymore. As for you Mr McCoist, you should stop for a minute and try to imagine what your pal and the late great Davie Cooper would have made of your recent part in all of this. I'd imagine he'd feel as hurt and let down as we all do. We trusted you as one of us, only you had the influence to get us on board with season tickets when we were correctly suspicious. Instead of backing your family you bottled it and looked out for no 1.

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Op maybe we hear nowt from ws or am cause there is nowt to report if we were to beleive everything in news papers I don't know difrent but ime not panicking till I hear from ibrox

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Dead on McCoist is 100% a JUDAS his list of convenient blind spots and his support of anyone waving a cheque book beggers belief, and that's forgeting he is s**** at management in any form football or man management. WHEN CW knocked him back for 10 signings on his list AND sold Jelavic at last hours of deadline that's WHEN HE SHOULD HAVE STOOD UP AND BEEN A MAN. he didnt. enough said. George

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I take your point although I think you are being a bit unfair over Mc Coist. Whyte and Green fooled everybody so Mc Coist was not the only one. Being a gifted footballer does not make give you an understanding of complex business arrangements or neccessarily a good manager. I personally do not believe that Ally or Walter sold out

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@1, I think you'll wait a long time. Are you not aware that the current predicament is all due to Ibrox not putting out truthful information, lying, keeping things hidden, being economical with the truth, etc, etc.
Al

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24 Apr 2013 23:14:02
if what bomber says is true
i, ll lose 1k in shares
but walter and ally has just lost everything. Les

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Op bomber said it was his OPINION no mention of truth we can sleep tonlght known the truth will be told soon enough until them mate there is no point worrying you could be worrying about nothing well nothing yet anyway

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Ally lost everything? you mad!
1- never paid anything and 2- gets paid 17k a week. This guy is not a victim. He's a big part of the problem. Talk about not wanting to see.

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