30 Apr 2013 21:57:38
Fellow Rangers supporters, I would suggest that we stop referring to the east end mob as paranoid, as I believe that that their problem is worsening and we would not want to be the cause of a deterioration in their condition. Let's concentrate on our positives for the future and leave the sniping to them. Maybe they will get fed up on here and enjoy sniping amongst themselves. Hope eternal.
billyb.
"Sniping to us"? A lot of you like Green, a lot of you don't. A lot of you want the Blue Knights, a lot of you don't. Some of you want the old regime, some of you don't. Some of you want Ally, some of you don't. Some of you boycott, some of you don't. Some of you want to have a model similar to Celtic's, some of you want seasoned SPL players.
You have more varying supporters trusts/clubs than some clubs have fans, you make the Judean People's Front in The Life Of Brian seem decisive on most issues but we'll "enjoy sniping amongst ourselves. " Well your about as funny as John Cleese, I will give you that.
Oh and while this is a forum where the Ed's are kind enough to let non-Rangers fan comment, expect it, all I hope for is some sense from you and decent debate but, as you almost said, hope springs eternal.
Gaz
Gaz, whatever opinions we have, they all have one thing in common, Rangers Football Club.
We live in a democracy where freedom of speech and opinion is encouraged. Celtic model no thanks, I personally think that come the sell off summer Celtic will struggle next season, boycotts no thanks, what does it achieve?, old regime, look at the mess it get us into, no thanks, ally, this season has been rubbish and I think the behind the scenes carry on has affected him so jury still out. Finally what do we want, a successful Rangers to challenge on domestic and cup fronts and where the Banter on here is about football. PB
That's my point PB for you took 4 of my points made a judgement on 3 and are undecided on the fourth, fair enough, that's your right. Included undecided that means 4 questions with three options, that's 3x3x3x3, that's 81/1 that the next Ger to have an opinion shares all of yours. Some are no brainers obviously but a lot of these things, are very emotive and split the support damn near down the middle, ie Ally and the signing policy, a unified response on these things would be miraculous.
The OP suggested we would do that if we get fed up. I'd say we are almost universally happy with Neil Lennon, the finances and the signing policy. and have no apparent board qualms. Calm waters in the east end OP I'm afraid.
Regards Celtic struggling, Wanyama seems to be making the right noises regards staying, Hooper is good but not brilliant I think, great value and a good sell on, if he doesn't re-sign, flog him this summer. I'd say there should be no exceptions to that rule, David Murray swore he would never do it again after Laudrup and as far as I'm concerned we shouldn't do it here. As for a rebuild if we do sell a few, to date Lennon has a good strike rate and above and beyond all the players Celtic have someone worth their weight in gold at Celtic, chief scout John Park. Sure we won't get a Wanyama for £900,000 everytime with such a sell on value but if even 3/5 do a job we are quids in and to date I'd say they are above that ratio with players they have invested cash in who are seen as sell-ons. And let's face it, as Rangers proved very recently cash is a vital part of any club these days.
Gaz
Gaz why don't you take a wee break from your keyboard and go and watch those you speak of?, I've never known one person so obsessed, and before you start bitching about the obsessed part, you are totally obsessed pal, and I mean to an extent that you may well need some help, and please stop idolising the editor so your posts are always up, its so boring, get a life gaz please, TB
@2 there is no such thing as free speech anymore. Just ask Mr Green and the reaction (rightly so) to his comments about Ahmed
TB. Spot on mate, maybe the point being made will register and we can give our opinions on our team without the continual contradiction from others.
billyb
@TB I have had a ton of posts not put up by the Ed's, they can confirm that any time you want I'd imagine.
@billyb where is pointing out Ally's wages, Green's bluster etc etc a contradiction? I and others are merely adding to, agreeing with or pointing out things you already know.
I never have commented on your team, as in the physical team on the park. In the sense of should Cribari play here or there or anywhere, look back, all that stuff I leave alone. Fiscally I can contradict some of you all day and all night because some of you are living in lala land in that regard.
However regards both of you, if you can't take it, ignore it, it's that simple.
Gaz
Gaz your comments are not constructive but a view on what's already out there.
We all know Rangers are in a mess both on and off the park but we support our team through thick and thin.
As a supporter I want clarity on what's going on before I part with money, the old company share holders bare testament to what can happen when unscrupulous business men get control of a football club and I class Charles Green in that bracket. Did he not say, ten months and I'll be gone when he first came to Rangers. He's had his pay check and he's off.
Despite what you think (an opinion) Ally Mccoist wages as manager of a big club are not extortionate, could you tell me what Lennon earns at Celtic?, however for the quality of football on show its been daylight robbery. Because of what's happened I will not judge Ally Mccoist until things have calmed off the field and the club and supporters have clarity.
So again Gaz, your views are your take and opinion of things neither right or wrong. PB
Gaz. Your opinion, in small doses, would be welcome to some, but your know-all arrogance against everything Rangers is pathetic. As PB said your obsession is strange, to say the least.
Ignoring you is difficult as you are never off the site.
billyb
@PB more than a spot of cherry picking there and that is why I enjoy coming in here and giving you hard cold facts. Green did say that, didn't he also say I'll be here till the Champions League music got played, with two such differing statements wasn't one always going to be correct? And therefore wasn't the other one, the one you ignored therefore wrong?
As for Ally's wage, does he merit more than Low, Hodgson? The same as Hitzfeld?
Rangers are a big club, well I'll actually rephrase that, Rangers have a great support and a good stadium and excellent facilities. They are not a big club in revenue right now. I'd say as of right now in revenue terms they would struggle to be in the top 25 of teams in the UK. So can they really justify paying more than the England manager gets based on that?
As for Lennon's wages, that is a laughable comparison, that guys teams generate cash for the club do Ally's? That is arguably where a managers worth is most appreciated by a board, revenue earned and sell on value, a massive 2-0 to Lennon so far and I'll tell you right now I'd be amazed if he picked up the same as Ally this year from a club with double the revenue might I add. Over £2m for a Scottish Division 3 manager? Seriously have a look at yourself.
Regards what I'm saying being already out there then why don't you either believe it, accept it, or comment accordingly therefore. Why is Amoruso talking in terms of Europe for 2014/15? Why is King still getting bandied about with 322 outstanding charges to face? Why just slightly up the page are two guys both wrong on Ticketus and Lloyd's bank?
Because you don't listen to, fail to comprehend or ignore bad news, always have and always will. I'm that wee yellow post it pack that just keeps reminding you since selective amnesia is rife amongst you. :)
Gaz
Gaz yet again you go off on one, read what I said @8 we are in a mess on the field and off the field and no easy fix it fancy ideas will sort it. I agree with McCoist we need cleansed from top to bottom what I don't agree with is your constant opinion on all things rangers. Charles green spouted what he wanted people to hear, the majority of us weren't taken in. As for lennons wage why not compare this he is a manager of a football team. The worst SPL celtic manager points wise incidentally, he did not find wanyama, hooper etc and certainly will not decide if they stay, so your comparison is way off the mark. Lennon is paid for results as is mccoist, nothing more. As for being a yellow post it note, normally they end up screwed up and in the rubbish bin once they've served their purpose! PB
PB here's the list of the top paid 30 managers in world football.
1. Jose Mourinho – Real Madrid (£12.3m)
2. Carlo Ancelotti – Paris St. Germain (£10.9m)
3. Marcelo Lippi – Guangzhou (£8.7m)
4. Sir Alex Ferguson – Manchester United (£7.6m)
5. Arsene Wenger – Arsenal (£7.5m, pictured right)
6. Guus Hiddink – Anzhi (£6.7m)
7. Fabio Capello – Russia (£6.3m)
8. Tito Vilanova – Barcelona (£5.6m)
9. Jose Camacho – China (£4.8m)
10. Roberto Mancini – Manchester City (£4.8m)
11. Frank Rijkaard – Saudi Arabia (£4.3m)
12. Jupp Heynckes – Bayern Munich (£4.2m)
13. Andre Villas-Boas – Tottenham (£3.6m)
14. Harry Redknapp – QPR (£3.2m)
15. Jorge Jesus – Benfica (£3.2m)
16. David Moyes – Everton (£2.9m)
17. Manuel Pellegrini – Malaga (£2.9m)
18. Paulo Autuori – Qatar (£2.9m)
19. Abel Braga – Fluminense (2.8m)
20. Luciano Spaletti – Zenit (£2.7m)
21. Antonio Conte – Juventus (£2.4m)
22. Cesare Prandelli – Italy (£2.4m)
23. Vanderlei Luxemburgo – Gremio (£2.4m)
24. Muricy Ramalho – Santos (£2.4m)
25. Tite – Corinthians (£2.4m)
26. Ottmar Hitzfeld – Switzerland (£2.1m)
27. Joachim Low – Germany (£2m)
28. Marcelo Bielsa – Athletic Bilbao (£2m)
29. Martin O’Neill – Sunderland (£2m)
30. Roy Hodgson – England (£2m)
Look at the teams involved, the standard of the managers, if there are any eye-catchers in there it will be the Chinese ones but they are doing what Russia did some years back and are paying funny money these days.
Rangers don't have a fraction of the wealth of these clubs/countries currently yet when you add in Ally's shares and bonus he finds himself 27th on that list.
He has ate up about 5% of Rangers revenue for this year, do you think any of the others are 5% of total revenue? And to add insult to injury the product on the park is pitiful.
While losing a million a month and a revenue stream way below all those on the list how can his near £2.1m be justified? Come on PB it is utter madness. And yes I'm aware O'Neill isn't at Sunderland anymore lol.
Gaz
PB Clearly it hasn't served its purpose as you yet again fail to acknowledge what I said and then in some odds ways contradict yourself.
I already in an earlier post mentioned who should be credited for finding the players (John Park) a manager however makes the final decisions on whether he is bought or not (at most clubs anyway, pending finances to buy him of course).
"What I don't agree with is your constant opinion on all things Rangers. " What does that mean? You don't agree because its constant? You would agree if it was non-constant?
You agree with McCoist regards top to bottom, why on earth doesn't that include him, part of the cause, part of the failure and most definitely part of the endorsement of two well dodgy regimes?
As for Lennon, yet again I say for the umpteenth time, not one Celtic fan is that bothered by SPL blips this year, more than wanted, more than should happen but given the £7m hit Celtic were going to take due to Rangers absence, this year was about making cash and if prioritising the CL over the SPL made that more of a likelihood then fine.
Doesn't explain defeats, draws after that I agree but overall I think most Celtic fans are pretty happy with the team this season, if you can say the same then keep firing back with those pretty timid blanks.
Gaz
Gaz, I am neither happy with the Rangers regime nor the football being played. I have stated I will give Mccoist the benefit of the doubt and include him in the cleansing from top to bottom, if he gets it wrong next season with signings and results he should go.
As for Celtic fans not being bothered about spl blips explain the dwindling crowds, the £100 off season tickets, a marketing ploy to fill seats. This season for Celtic has hinged on a lucky champions league campaign, yes lucky, like we were in 2008 getting to the UEFA cup final. If you fail to win the Scottish cup will it be a successful season. Just look at the stats about Celtic SPL form, rotten I think you might call it.
As for constant opinions you have one on everything Rangers to an obsessive degree and liken yourself to a wee post it note, me I would liken you to thrush an irritation. PB
@PB you always start well but all your reasonableness just goes away by the end. You are bang on in paragraph one and I applaud you for it.
Regards crowds, it may have escaped your attention but we are paying on avg £28 a game in the SPL, you are paying on avg £15 in Division 3, add to that 12 European games if you are a travelling fan, are you really going to expect them to turn up for Hibs at home etc after shelling out for Finland, Sweden, Russia, Portugal, Spain and Italy, domestic crowds were inevitably going to suffer. The bulk of us work in exactly the same jobs as Rangers fans do and this season following Celtic has been a damn sight costlier than following Rangers. Nobody is moaning but home games were bound to take a hit surely?
Regards luck, you make your own luck, I've never grudged Rangers 2008, they did well getting there, is it that hard to say that in reverse? As for that luck both Barcelona and Benfica got to the semi finals of the two tournaments, did this luck include the draw? Because I would have thought that progress would infer they were pretty good teams.
Regards the £100 off, of course it's a marketing ploy, we're very good at that, it prevents all sorts of footballing ills like administration, failed CVA's and pending liquidation. You really should try it some time.
Oh and by the way I think earlier you meant "the worst SPL TITLE WINNING Celtic manager points wise" he has already went past Celtic's total points wise for 2 different years with 4 games to go. Facts mate, facts, I keep telling you about them.
And then you end with another misquote, haven't I already said I don't say a thing regards the Rangers team, positions, tactics, why he subbed so and so? So I clearly do not have an opinion on EVERYTHING Rangers and as far as I can ascertain as I write this I have made no contribution to the top 9 threads in here, EVERYTHING can be such an innaccurate word at times, don't you think?
I'll jump all over rubbish and misleading, suspect nonsense all day and all night in here, the OP implied we would go back and snipe amongst ourselves, when clearly we are at a point in time when unity amongst Rangers fans on all the big issues is a chasm the width of the Grand Canyon, it was a nonsense statement and he was taken to task for it, with more than a few accurate observations.
Gaz
To 15. ] A 4 line post certainly makes you do a lot of jumping. In your final paragraph you have an opinion, but like all your comments you can do no wrong. Just a point, I did not imply, I hoped.
billyb
@Billyb you said "lets leave the sniping to them" (internally) which IMPLIED this was something we had previous for. I merely pointed out that currently it is the Rangers support that is fractured on numerous issues not ours.
I accept you did say hope at the end but generally when people say let's leave that to them or an individual it means that is one of their recognised characteristics. As I've said in here earlier in the week "You couldn't agree on the colour of sh*te" to quote Braveheart.
I've been wrong in here before, more importantly I've came back on and admitted it.
Gaz