Rangers Banter Archive March 04 2013

 

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04 Mar 2013 22:33:18
Just noticed that one of the best teams on the planet, real Madrid, are training tonight at Manchester citys ground, ahead of the game with man united, city's famous rivals. And I'm not heating any complaints from fergy? No petted lip? No press outbursts? No class!

Believable45 Unbelievable22

Maybe it's because the other class team aren't renting the training ground out for 10 bob! I think you will find the uproar was more because rangers were cashing in. But then again given the financial results yesterday the rangers need every penny they can get.

Jd {The Ed039's Note - Juventus used the training facilities at Rangers for free, this is a common courtesy extended by clubs, to other travelling clubs around the world. I dont see what the big deal is?)

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Madrid asked to use the etihad, man city didn't offer it to them. It's purely mind games from mourinho as he said he was unsure of the surface at old Trafford. There was no pettiness from man city.

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If this is one of the important things in people life's and really such a big talking point I pity them honestly who cares who trains where well said Ed btw!

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How do people know madrid asked, how do you know man city never offered. Only in scotland is a team utilising anothers facilities is met with such hostility and hatred

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If the rangers provided the training facility for free then I agree no big issue. I stand corrected.

Jd

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It was the ginger gnome that mentioned renting it out, no wonder he cannae get tactics right, cannae believe anything he says.

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Ginger gnome and tactics? Have a look at your own manager and tactics, eh. let's play long ball today boys!

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Don't recall Man City owners spinning it as a get it up ye to Man Utd. And with good reason, they were already papped oot of Europe and they've got far more class and dignity than that.

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04 Mar 2013 22:18:40
what happened to this statement. RANGERS have now banked an incredible £10million in season-ticket sales for their Third Division campaign.

Ibrox chief executive Charles Green revealed the figure yesterday as he addressed the fans

now overall turnover has been confirmed as 9.5 million which includes sponsorship merchandise gate money tv money hospitality packages. so was the 10 million claim to the fans a big whopper?

Believable45 Unbelievable3

But there are a few months still to add to the season. These accounts are half yearly and are unaudited. The picture will be clearer in the April figures.

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Gate receipts and hospitality
6, 411
Sponsorship and advertising
381
Broadcasting rights
391
Commercial
552
Retail
941
Other operating income
848

9, 524


thats the figures as given to the stock exchange

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Propspectus figures up until 31st aug

no of season tickets sold 35, 411
season ticket sales £7. 776 million

stock exchange today season tickets sold 38,000 av attendance 44,000 total sales of season ticket cash at gate and hospitality £6. 411 million

something doesn't add up

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Remember that a lot of the tickets are sold on a monthly direct debt sceme. Not sure of the mechanics but this means either some ticket money still to come in or that the direct debets are sold to another comany who will return a total of the fee. So if £10million sold then the financial institution will give rangers say £8millon {The Ed039's Note - A bit like Ticketus then? I think the monthly direct debit scheme is handled in house but some clubs do this)

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@4 to my knowledge all installment season tickets will be paid for now in 3 monthly payments never heard of a monthly direct debit

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04 Mar 2013 15:01:29
Source: STV

Rangers chief executive Charles Green says former manager Walter Smith has told him not to panic over ‘unpleasant’ performances, saying his team would get booed off when they were winning championships.

The Ibrox club are 23 points ahead at the top of the Division Three under Ally McCoist.

However some fans have been unhappy with the nature of the team’s performances this season, most notably after the club’s Scottish Cup exit to Dundee United.

Smith, who managed the club between 1991 and 1998 and again from 2007-2011, has told Green to stick with his former assistant.

Green told STV: “I’ve sat with him [McCoist] on a number of occasions and we know what we’re trying to do with the club and it is important that the fans see and understand the difficulties we’ve had to put up with.

“Walter Smith said to me the other week he said ‘look Charles when you look out there it is not pleasant but you have to remember when we were winning nine in a row, we were getting booed off then’.

“It is a difficult time. Ally hasn’t got the players around him that he would have liked. We all have to work through this and see when league reconstruction comes round and then we can bring new players in and build a team that the Rangers fans expect to see on the field of play.

“But all we can do is win the titles in the league that we are placed in. ”

Believable11 Unbelievable24

Ally brought the players he wanted most had to go cause shiat and the ones who stayed aren't anything special, great scouting. And isn't now the time to build a team full of young players and have them even better when in spl? Not wait and build a team when in spl, and by how buying expensive players like you did Walter?

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As a lifelong fan who has seen Rangers through thick and thin, bad teams and good teams, I can honestly say that the standard of football in Scotland is at the lowest ever. The lack of ability has groomed negativity and this has been personified in Ally's teams. Walter being his tutor would accept this as his teams were the most negative to grace Ibrox in my lifetime. And before my fellow supporters press the disagree button think of the decisions during our 10 in a row chase, and probably worst of all our EUFA final against Zenit. I was at the game and Ranger's tactics were pathetic. Walter like Ally is a total bluenose but loyalty can only take a team so far.
billyb

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That"s the quality if you accept, but what about the tactical element, there's where Ally is lacking compared to Walter.

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Nice one Walter. giving Ally a hand to stay in a job he ain't good enough for -- I think all this hype around Daly is just a smoke screen - we will have a few new players in next season but the football won't change! punt and hope -

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The reason you think Scottish football is at its lowest ever level -
You only see the standard of the fourth division

Its much better up at the top

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04 Mar 2013 14:31:26
i just wonder how much we are really wasting on Cribari, Faure, Argiriou, Kyle, Sandaza, Black, Durrant, McDowell and other backroom jobs?

I'm sure the £7m loss was probably expected but c. mon let's remember we ARE now a mickey mouse outfit in a mickey mouse league. We have ambitions to move up but we need time to re-adjust to this new lifestyle, however, we DO need to cut our cloth to suit!

Believable19 Unbelievable8

I would class the SPL as mickey mouse, its not a hell of a lot to look forward to- whatever it is called by then.

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@1 if SPL is Mickey Mouse why you over spending to get back to it?

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@2

I was just alluding to the fact that the top league in our country is a joke- with or without Rangers. What I should have put was that the SFL3 would be classed as significantly inferior to the SPL, therefore perhaps it should be classed as. I don t know, maybe Elmer Fudd or ant hill mob. Sorry to disappoint you.

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@ 3 that's who green reminds me of. that's been bugging me ELMER FUDD

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@3 - You are not exposed to the good bits of Scottish football.

They happen in a league far above where you play!

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02 Mar 2013 21:45:52
ed. can you answer this if someone walked up to bdo right now and offered to pay off all oldco debts will that save the oldco from being liquidated? if yes is that because the oldco is not fully liquidated yet? and if that's also a yes then why is it hard for people to understand newco saved the club from in their words being liquidated! don't forget rangers the club never went through the whole liquidation process and was bought by newco thanks. mark. {The Ed039's Note - I dont fully understand what you are saying, but you're original question is yes, someone could buy the oldco and save it from liquidation, but you would be hard pushed to find someone to pay off these debts for a company that has no stadium, no football team, no association memberships, no TV deals, effectively no income stream whatsoever, unless someone wanted to merge the oldco with the newco)

Believable2 Unbelievable4

Gratuitous Alienation is means BDO could get back stadium, trophies etc and re-sell. But they would have to prove that the sell significantly undervalues the assets (£1 for 100 years of trophies. ? kidding right).

BDO OWN "Rangers FC" and can offer that back to TRFC. RIFC. otherwise a phoenix can't just restart in same place with same assets and no debts.

Ed mostly right on this one.

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Once the petition has been stamped in court liquidation can't be reversed they can reverse asset sales and re sell but it can't be sold as a company {The Ed039's Note - I think you would be mad if anybody thinks any sale of anything is going to be reversed or if anything is going to change from the way it is now)

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02 Mar 2013 21:03:15
A couple of questions ed,

1. Would we be top of the 3rd division without mcculloch and little?

2. Would this set of players be in the top 6?

I say no to both, just wondering what you think. {The Ed039's Note - Question 1, yes, question 2, absoloutley not. Not with the current coaching team)

Believable8 Unbelievable3

I'd put templeton into that list aswell mate he suffered an injury at the start of the season but since has scored 10+ goals not sure the exact figures but also chipped in with a few assists someone questioned the 750k price tag but he was exactly the type of player we needed just has trouble with consistency at his highest standard!

Larky Bear {The Ed039's Note - More like £450k)

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04 Mar 2013 13:56:59
Souce: tv

Rangers chief executive Charles Green insists the club is in a great position despite reporting a loss of £7million for the final seven months of 2012.

Interim results to 31 December show revenue of £9.5m, with operating expenses of £16.6m, while funds in the bank at the turn of the year sat at £21.2m.

Green believes the club are on a sound financial footing just a year after being placed into administration and demoted to the fourth tier of Scottish football.

Reflecting on the financial results, Green told tv: "It leaves us in a very, very strong position because those figures cover the period where we weren't even a member of the Football Association in Scotland, and we had huge wage bills when we first went in which have been trimmed down.

"It has been a very, very challenging six months looking to where Rangers were in administration to the successful float [on the stock exchange] in December which raised £35million. "

Green insisted Rangers boss Ally McCoist will have funds to invest when the club have their transfer embargo lifted in September and believes that the future looks bright.

"Ally [McCoist] will get cash to spend, but because of the transfer embargo that won't happen until January next year, " he said.

"But as you can see we are 23 points ahead of our nearest rival and we will win the league in the next few weeks. Rangers is in a great position and we have overturned the problems that brought the demise.

"Murray won the case against HMRC and then on Thursday the Lordship [Lord Nimmo Smith] announced there had been no benefits (from the EBT case) and sporting integrity had not been compromised.

"I think Rangers, Rangers fans and it's investors are in a great position. "

Believable14 Unbelievable25

If you believe what Chuckie is saying then you really are deluded mate.

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£7 million loss. so the £10 million warchest for Ally - is nearly all gone in just 7 months. ?

£16m spent. on what, £2m for floatation, £1m for finding investors (could have saved that!), what else if you losing money paying for short term loans silly.

looks like £10+ mill lose for fully year, which must be paid from £22m share float. so march2014 out of money again??

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@1 Charles Green has delivered so far and yes he still has a few outstanding promises however over the last wee while we having been ticking the boxes slowly but surely.
@2 You will find if you check the account statement there is good reason to be upbeat as a lot of costs came from paying off Footballing debts and other one off items while we were not generating income due to no licence for part of the accounts period.
If we use your own calculations our loss would have been.5m and that was without shirt or stadium sponsorship.

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@3 The footballing debts by all accounts are not included in this as these figures are only up to December 31st.

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04 Mar 2013 12:44:45
Larky and the rest of you, answer me this. Are you outraged at RBS and the like handing out bonuses to Exec's despite massive losses? If so why can you tolerate massive bonuses while running at an operating loss for Green and his cohorts for what seems a fairly rudimentary waltz through the divisions?

Please don't moan about one if you are not prepared to moan about the other.

Gaz

Believable16 Unbelievable3

No person should get a bonus for failing that's a cert but how is CG failing? About to win div3, money in the bank, standing up for our club at every turn, bringing in investment? Wats Lawell's wage and bonus? Comparable or massively more? Interested to know the figures. CheltBlue

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Sorce of "massive losses", "sorce of massive bonuses", obssesed!

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Cheltblue if this club with the huge attendances can't be run at a profit now then it never will. Do you or I know every single business deal made by RBS CEO Stephen Hester for the year? Yet his company made a loss and we say it's terrible that they can hand out such bonuses, Rangers (bear in mind the transfer debts are still to come off) will make a loss this year, a fairly substantial one presumably, should that be rewarded with bonuses for getting Rangers out a division 3 with 46,000 plus crowds and yet still haemorrhaging cash?

And yet again you bring in Celtic, last I looked Celtic were making tons of money this season and if by that definition is he due a bonus, well certainly. As for the money in the bank, it is all the share money, we are talking operating losses of £7m. From The Scotsman's figures you have £21.2m in the bank and just several months back raised £22.2m so it is already getting eaten into and rest assured it is not as yet being spent on what the prospectus porported.

Gaz {The Ed039's Note - How can you possibly say if a profit cant be turned now it can never be turned? In SFL 3, do you know how ridiculous that sounds?)

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@1: but are you happy at the reported bonuses if the club is losing so much money?

Lawwell's bonus is irrelevant to Rangers as his club is not making that type of loss. It's irrelevant to the RBS bonuses because the tax payer doesn't contribute to his, unlike the RBS bankers'.

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OP comparing a football club to a bank! heard it all now, ah take it rfc was partly to blame for the economic climate this country finds itself in?
well I suppose we should be happy still retaining our 5 stars while the country loses it's AAA credit rating.
Get real ffs.

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@5: a bit rich telling someone else to get real when you haven't even taken the point of the post correctly. Then, you decide to go on and accuse the OP of something they haven't said. Nice one.

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Ed expenditure should be rock bottom currently, the quality of player required for the job in hand, no debts (externally). Lower costs on policing opposition fans, given their small numbers etc, the expenditure of nearly a whole expensively assembled squad wiped from the books.

Besides which Ed we don't have to look too far back into history to find Rangers winning trophies and in the Champions League and STILL not turning a profit, so I don't think it is that ridiculous at all. Never was perhaps an exaggeration but I would hae thought this was one season where the primary target could be achieved with money to spare.

Gaz {The Ed039's Note - I disagree, I think this is the season where anybody could accept that a profit would not be turned and I even acknowledged that this would be the case at the beginning of the season, as did several other posters, Rangers and Celtic fans alike, who acknowledged that the overheads far outweighed any financial benefits that SFL 3 could bring)

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@5 Hasn't the last 13 months taught you anything? Administrators and lawyers have arguably been as busy as some of the players at Ibrox in that time period. The financial comparison is pertinent especially to a club just back from the brink surely?

And for the record I doubt Rangers were partly to blame for the economic climate but I can think of 276 creditors who they sure as hell didn't help through it! Laughable response and I truly think you are the one who needs to get real.

Gaz

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Ed don't be hard on Gaz, he was using the Seville calculator when he worked out the figures. CheltBlue

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Ed at the start of the season endless folk were in here bleating about how Rangers would have a huge warchest by the time they returned to the SPL and much as I thought it was fanciful (the figures mentioned) I still thought it was highly probable they could have some decent dough if they ran a tight ship and I don't recall one Ed correcting them and saying forget about it regards this season.

Bear in mind as Rangers ascend through the divisions the quality required will get slightly higher, increasing the wage bill while, let's face it as it stands, getting precious little as reward (ie cash for the division wins). Green has already hinted at season ticket price increases, a gamble under the circumstances, will crowds and ultimately revenue drop by this increase? Ally's warchest, the rennovation of Ibrox, when exactly will be a better time to make dough? And let's face it precious few of this squad have standout sell-on value as is.

Gaz {The Ed039's Note - I can assure you that I never once said Rangers would make a profit this season, if folk thought that then thats their opinion, ultimately that is the nature of these websites, people will say things, some folk will be more accurate than others, there is just not enough money in the lower divisions of Scottish football for an establishment the size of Rangers to even think about breaking even, which would have been the main reason behind the stock exchange flotation)

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Fair enough I believe you but if they can't do it in div 3 and didn't do it recently when winning SPL's and being in the Champs League then when exactly? And I'm not being pedantic, you know I don't mean exactly lol.

Gaz

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Some good comments. My take is simple. A bonus is a reward for achieving or beating a set target. I am sure that the set target at the club was to win promotion whic, unless something drastic happens (The Mayans got it wrong!) is in the bag. Any bonus related to that target is earned and should be paid. (Bankers baffle me. I would love to see a target where you are rewarded for practically destroying the business - I would be a very rich man if that's how it worked). Now morally, based on the club financial situation, is it correct to award bonuses? That's up for debate. The bonus should be in the form of shares with the club. The better the club performs, the share price increases and therefore so does the bonus award. It's a no-brainer win/win situation.
Ned

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04 Mar 2013 10:15:44
An operating loss of £7m in 9 months, in the third division, with crowds of what, a 46,000 average! A sizeable chunk of this spent on Black's, Templeton's, Cribari's and the like for cup runs. (Ally's quote at the start of the season to justify them can be found for all to see).

Then the Scottish Cup run is jeopardised two-fold by the boycott at Tannadice, ie precious few fans there supporting the club and the lost revenue from those fans non-appearance. I'm not saying Rangers would have won either way but fans might have helped, they're called "supporters" for a reason.

Sure there were no lay-offs and all other Ibrox staff were kept on which is to be applauded but come on this is beyond dumb. And then to add insult to injury, bumper bonuses will be handed out to the top exec's for promotion. This is beginning to sound like banker bonuses paid out when a bank (take your pick) loses billions.

Green and the like don't need to sell, this is the cash cow of cash cows, a huge bonus for every promotion all but guaranteed for three seasons in a row.

Anyone remember when he said he'd leave the day he had to sack McCoist? That won't happen any time soon because it puts his own wee nest-feathering exercise in jeopardy.

This is beyond shambolic, with such remarkable attendances I couldn't contemplate Rangers not making a sizeable profit this year, well okay you did in the sense that £20.5m was invested to give you a pre-tax profit of £9.5m but that revenue stream has now gone and does beg the question from Green and the like was the funds available to keep the club afloat otherwise? It looks like £11m of it has been pissed away already, then you take off their bonuses (for running the operational side of the club at a loss) and how much of Ally's warchest and the Ibrox rennovation cash will be left?

I'm gobsmacked, and then he wants rid of Malcolm Murray, the one and only true blue on the board who by all accounts attracted a lot of the investment in the first place.

If you can't make money in division 3 under those circumstances, when exactly can you?

Gaz

Believable22 Unbelievable8

Green said we was losing a million a month a while ago. The Dundee Utd thing didn't lose us millions lucky if it was even £100,000 so give us peace there apart from that game we have supported our team everywhere. Operating costs have been slashed by £1million and there has been some staff cuts. The Bonuses are a bit large but Green has put a lot of work in if he runs our club properly no one will care if he gives himself a bonus after a promotion/successfull season. Yes attendances have been great but at 3rd division ticket prices so in reality Division 3 is the hardest place to be making money so I really don't understand your logic in your last question. If there's Skullduggery afoot I fully expect
Malcolm Murray to address this to the fans I can't see Walter Smith putting his name on the line for someone like Charles Green. On top of all this there's players there like Cribari Goian Alexander Blavk Sheils probably Sandaza making far too much money for any 3rd division team I only justify Mcculloch & Wallace there wages because they are the spine of our team & 2 of the most loyal men to ever pull on the Jersey. Alexander falls into that category but 10k a week for a GK that can't keep a clean sheet in the 3rd division speaks for itself.

Larky Bear

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Larky green owns 8% in shares, and that's currently worth £5m - for 0 put in. he does not need £1 mill per year bonus.

he claims rfc will be worth £500mill soon, so his shares worth £40mill on that basis.

why he taking money in cash now, when so much to gain. ?

killing the golden goose. no?

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Panic stations at the ready yet? If the fans are still buying into this clown then make sure you land on your head.

Green imran & Murray all on 720k a year plus 720k as a bonus so right away that over 4.3m just on 3 wages & 3 bonuses? Smith and all non exc on 50k plus bonus? So properly pushing 5m just for a 'board of directors'?

The guy tried to save old co and couldn't & formed a new rangers. the title stripping saga is over along with the EBT case. Clean slate for a new buyer with league reconstruction the only hurdle left to crack. Unless rangers sign or bring though a youngster who just stands out a mile away with a good sell on value then it will be debt all the way until you try and make a run in Europe which is at least 3 years away?

'Selling out' ibrox & a share issue isn't helping you run a club with funny money be used to run it.

It's got Craig whyte story all over it

Lenny

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Larky, can a club with an operating loss of £7m really turn their nose up at another £100,000? Will this club ever be fiscally responsible? As far as I'm aware there have been no auxilliary staff lay offs, Green has bleated that many a time, prove me wrong?

If there's skullduggery you expect Malcolm Murray to address it, the very guy Green is trying to oust. That would worry me instantly, nescafe - nose, let the two meet some time soon please!

Buffon, Casillas and Cech would struggle to keep a clean sheet with that back four, I think you're being harsh on Alexander, you know him, one of those who stayed and will NEVER EVER be forgotten, heaped with legendary status from lots of you, makes one whopping error as far as I've seen this season and is suddenly the villan of the piece because it suits, outraged at him getting 10k a week (when he didn't TUPE) but can turn your nose up at 100k more from Tannadice, what a shambles you are.

Gaz

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04 Mar 2013 13:02:47
Don't know exactly what all this means but I guess we can forget a warchest for Ally and the promised renovations at Ibrox.

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Shocking making a loss of that size and that is just what green is saying the true size will come out when he has to get accounts signed off and what about his other claim puma is a bigger brand than nike pmsl

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The big test will be in the close season when the business has to rely on commercial activities to replace gate receipts to pay the operating costs. There will be great pressure put on the loyalty of fans to buy new tops and also renew ST's at increased prices (maybe by as much as 40% against mostly the same teams as this season). In this financial climate there will be lots of fans who still support the club but can't afford to do it financially-same as all other teams. Charlie has already stated that his level of expectation is 40,000 @ £500 average. I buy my daughter's ST but may think twice as to whether it is value for money.

Paddy Malarkey {Ed001's Note - have Rangers done what many teams in England do? Sorry, nearly forgot to explain what I meant then! I mean many times in the English leagues, Blackpool being one that springs to mind, reduce player wages during the offseason, on top of the savings in appearance and success bonuses to them. Blackpool were only paying something like £75 a week to each player during the close season. If Rangers have included that in the players' contracts, that would massively reduce pressure on the club. Personally, I believe every club should do it.}

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Larky you missed out Templeton, 750,000 for a 3rd division team, that's what our budget should've been on the whole team not 1 player.

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@5 now there's a plus point!

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A transfer of buisness is an operation that can run at a loss. Mines ran for 3 years before I made a profit. TAX REFUNDED.

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Too much money going out at this stage of the recovery process for my liking particularly when cash flow could become a concern during the close season. short term investment for a speedy return seems illogical at this stage and sets alarm bells ringing looking to the long term future and what will be removed then especially when you consider that Celtic have just about cleared all of their debt and will reep 100 % profit after running costs next year.

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@2 Green talks absolute P@sh so ovcourse he's taking money out on a yearly basis for god sake all I said is if he runs the club properly & makes money for himself & the club then no one will care if in the coming seasons it's the opposite there will be a kick up!

@4 what's the deal with the Dundee Utd thing the fans made there mind up they weren't going of I wasn't working I'd have went up and supported the team like I always try to do at every given opportunity like I've donated to the Fighting Fund Bought my season Ticket & home & away Jerseys!

Malcolm Murray says he's been a fan from Childhood surely one of these so called Rangers/Business men would address the fans over making a quick buck to stay stoomp but probably not just wishful thinking never worked in the past.

About Bonuses u asked me can I justify Green but not RBS if u had the power to give yourself 3/4s of a million pounds in a bonus would you? Ovcpurse you would and we don't have a bloody say in the matter whether they do or not Full Stop!

Then onto Alexander the mans been a loyal servant yes but when were losing £1million a month and he can't keep a clean sheet agains Stirling or East Stirling can he justify 10k worth of work that week No ovcourse he can't it's a crazy wage for a GK in Div 3 everyone knows that we would get slagged if we kept him on that we get slagged if we cut his wages we cannot win with any fan that doesn't support Rangers because of the High morals that has swept Scottish Football the past year it's a joke!

@8 your bang on mate I'd have preffered signing all players from SFL on low wages that know the 3rd division but where would we be right now without his assists & what is it 15 goals especially with him being injured at the start of the season we couldn't get a win away the football was even more ugly than it is now.

Larky Bear

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Ed001
I would doubt that would be in any existing contractsother than those newly signed. If imposed, it would probably have to apply to non-playing staff also. I know guys employed on the catering side whose shifts are being "rationalised" as of now-what of the coaching staff, stadium workers, Murray Park employees? My point was more about peoples' ability to contribute more, like people who spent the Christmas present money on shares. in a lot of cases their funds will stretch to a new top. I honestly think that if Mr green had been a lot less belligerant, you would be fast-tracked up the leagues-they're gagging for your money-to a place where returns are greater and ease the pressure on the fans but unfortunately you can't un-say something. Sometimes with Charles you wonder why nobody is taking away the shovel.

Paddy Malarkey {Ed001's Note - just wondering mate, I don't know anyone on the current Rangers staff to ask, just know a few playing in the English leagues that have had that contract. It might help if all future contracts had that clause in them, after all, the players are not working during the off season!}

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Here we go again with the east end unemployed accountants. Track record of being massively wrong in the FTTT and LNS findings now that lasted for just under a year! - how bad can they be?.
Think I'll wait for the professionals to divulge the figures and make comment. Won't be on this page only if they've copied and paste.

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Ahhh 14) It's you Charles loves the most, the unswerving Celtic conspiracy theorists, too busy looking across town as the piggy bank gets raided right behind you. How's the removal of the "In Craig We Trust" tattoo coming along?

Gaz

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@Paddy: buying shirts won't make that much money for the club but will for the retailer and the kit supplier. The money from the kit deal will already be arranged and I'm guessing will be paid in installments. The return on actual shirt sales is miniscule. I think Ed001 knows a bit about this so should be able to confirm.

1903

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Larky, fair play to you for wanting to go to that game, Celtic will never dictate what games I should/shouldn't attend, especially I feel with that with whatever contribution it is actually financially rewarding to them. As I said Rangers are in no position to be turning their nose up at any income and I'm sure all their previous creditors find it pretty rich too.

As for Murray, it is that very long term link with the club that would make me worry over Green's attempts to oust him, a bit like Greig leaving when Whyte was in charge arguably.

Having the power to give yourself a bonus in itself is not justification, at RBS because it is part publicly owned, at Ibrox because a club running at a loss after last years fiasco really needs to come across as being a bit more fiscally responsible. Both made pretty bad relative losses in recent accounts, there should be no stomach for either getting rewarded for such.

If Alexander is a luxury why didn't Rangers punt him at the start of the season? He's sounding that bad by your description that surely some youngster on the books would have done just as well. Again you haven't answered the back 4 accusation? I get the damned if we do/damned if we don't part you mention and he is a luxury on that wage but for me all this verbal about him has came from one bad error that cost two points. I think he's been overly maligned because currently it suits Ibrox to have him over that barrel with very little fan support. Not how I feel one of the few name players that stayed should be rewarded or remembered.

Gaz

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04 Mar 2013 10:12:51
On the subject of LNS findings I found this on their page. Hilarious.

"If the SAF/SPL were really concerned about displaying this as being dealt with integrity then the case should have been dealt with by a nuetral group (Possibly England. "


WHEN DOES AN INDEPENDENT, UNBIASED COMMITER BECOME A NON- NEUTRAL?.

Smacks of desperation.
Pathetic.

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Any decision/fact/situation that does'nt fit with their view/interpretation/outcome has obviously been influenced by non-neutrals, be that referees, lawyers. , tax experts et al. who do they think they are?. from private detectives following refs, psychologists analysing them, to dvds of wrestling matches. this mob have no concept of what it's like to be wrong. which they almost always are.

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Rangers were found guilty though do it is happy days all round for the rest of Scottish football.

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04 Mar 2013 09:48:36
It was widely expected that RFC running at a loss. but 12 Million a year! Now its in black and white in accounts. 21Million in bank. It doesn't take a maths genius to work out when RFC run out of cash - especially when they have a couple of million in Bonus to be paid out also over next few years. none of the current players are 'sellable'. its 15 months tops before RFC have 0 in bank. no bank will give credit so where is money coming from that is needed before getting into top flight?

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04 Mar 2013 07:34:19
Questions@:

Sporting Integrity (SI)

If our Celtic friends felt so strongly about SI why didn't they abstain from the decisions/discussions on the Rangers situation? As they are the only beneficiaries if Rangers were not in the Top League. i. e No serious competition for the league and champions league revenue.

It's been reported Mr Reilly of Celtic put forward the motion of title stripping? Morally wrong? Goes against SI?

Why out of all the teams in the SPL. 1 feels the need to question the LNS findings? Surely better to in the interests of SI to be dignified and say nothing?

Have Celtic been advised by Mr Mulholland QC supporter of the Green Brigade (as reported)? Are the Green Brigade running Celtic?

Why did the Celtic manager feel the need to show his hurt feeling and answer questions in a not so acurate manner at a press conference about LNS findings? He had said previously he wouldn't discuss Rangers?

Why has nothing been asked in the Scottish Media with regards to questioning Celtic's part in the Rangers situation? As SI has been the buzz phrase for so long?

kjs

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I hope you read this and see hear what you sound like. Where was the riley story reported? Mullholland is not a supporter of any fan group, he praised the union bears too remember, Question celtics part? you been reading leggat?

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Well said op, long overdue and don't listen to the tims they will deny everything even if it is proven.
They backed the RTC site prior to the decision even quoting from it continually and now the LNS decision, watch the masonic rumour start if it hasn't already.
@1 nothing wrong with Leggat, well mostly lol, but at least his website is current not like the RTC - dead.

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Nothing wrong with Leggat! the man is a rabid bigot as I can only assume are you if you agree with him

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04 Mar 2013 07:29:12
I really can't believe people are that desperate on here to the point that they are planning to count winning division 3 as our 55th title, in my eyes our 55th title is when we win top tier title again, and trust me its going be a while away yet, we are miles off semtic on and off the park, I'd say another 12 years at least if not longer.

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Celtic are closing the gap while we're in exile. Linfield could surpass our WR 54 before the end of the decade. Don't dismiss adding the 4th tier title that easily. 54 and counting all divisions put in front of us, will do for me. 55 when winning Div3, Brill!

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Adding the D3 title won't be officially recognised as number 55 - it's only the top leagues that count for that as it means league champions - the best team in the whole league system.

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04 Mar 2013 06:48:58
Too many players hiding on Saturday and as full-time proffesionals why can't we pass to each other and run round the opposition?

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Manager sends team out with a game plan, long high balls.

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Saturday:-
Alexander - keep (but put a defence in front of him)
Argyriou - be ok or next season then get rid
Hegarty - poor in the air, get rid
Cribari - poor in the air at set pieces & slow - get rid
Wallace- going through the motions, but easily better than the rest
Naismith- not a first team player, can't see him improving much
McKay - too inconsistent - 1 trick pony
Black - woeful - can't header, can't pass, can't shoot, can't tackle- free kicks and corners are atrocious
Hutton - too slow, been found out too often at bottom level
Templeton - was ok when he could have 1 good game out of 5 at Hearts - not good enough even at this level
Aird - read McKay
Little - beginning to settle & gain confidence - hope return of Mcculloch doesn't push him wide
McCulloch - has found his level in this league & probably the next
Hemmings - not on long enough to make judgement

The worry for me is that all of this lot have either been given or are negotiating new contracts!
Still a long long way to go.

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04 Mar 2013 06:03:30
Hi everyone, just aa question for all the football experts on here. When we are back inthe top league how many of the present celtic team do you think will be there or how many will let contracts run down and leave for nothing like (Larsson) and in my opinion and don, t think they will get anymore than £5million for any of their players if they get chance to sell

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Haha. What a totally stupid post. You really think wanyama will go for under £5m? pretty much none of the current team will be there when rangers return I think

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Eh? this time last year, we had Izzaguire and Kayal touted as world class. anyone buy them now?. think you've punted one guy to Swansea, but clubs were hardly clamouring to buy your"star" players, were they?

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I remember the claims. Kayal 9 mill. Izzag 15 mill. Ledley 6 mill. Scott brown 250k was it? I know all very over exaggerated fees.

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04 Mar 2013 12:24:20
Most will be retired by then. Andymac

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@OP, will it really matter to us as you have hee haw to concern us!

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04 Mar 2013 00:09:27
Bad feeling. I dip into both sites occasionally, and as an expat I try to be a moderate, helped no doubt by not being subjected to the truely gutter press in the UK and the comics in Scotland. My point isn't a rumour it's just a gut feeling. I don't think Rangers are ever going to recover from their troubles. In fact under Green and Ally things are only going to get worse. And yes I do support Celtic, I'm not hiding it

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As a celtic supporter you should hope you are wrong, because if not ALL scottish football will be on a very sharp slippery slope, don't want to keep on about attendances and interest in the game but it is reality.

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More to the point, will Celtic ever recover from Rangers troubles? what if you fail at the qualifiers next year (entirely possible) your gates are already plummeting, and even selling your "star" players for some of the laughable amounts touted would'nt fill the gap, as your fans have already shown no appetite for normal SPL games?. dark days for us all mate, and I can't see a way out. less than 30000 for four cup quarter finals. grim stuff. not that old, but I can remember watching a Rangers-Airdrie quarter final with 45000 others.

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@2 - but celtic could survive the armageddon you suggest (falling income - attendance * price, falling tv income etc etc) they could

a) sell ground (you can't as don't own it)

b) sell players (you can't as they all freebies, or past it)

c) raise income (you can't don't that)

SO **they** in much better place, and can face armageddon.

how do you cope, more fans - but they paying less, so income down!

kit money - less
tv money - less

its all going pete tong!

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Sell ground. so where would you play?. sell players. so who would play for you?. raise income? when you've sold your ground and all your best players?. sounds like your"better" place will be in Div 3 with us. did'nt really think that post through, did you?

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Re3] you are completely missing the point or are deluding yourself, bottom line is without Rangers and Celtic both being in top division it will quickly become a non event with zero interest, quality akin to welsh and irish league, get a grip and wake up to reality.

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@3 who would buy a big bit of waste in parkhead? Tv money? No one is watching SPL.

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@6 seems like you fans are watching since you know about every game and attendance so seems like spl didn't lose any viewers since you always tune in to watch some great football rather then your shiat in lowest division {The Ed039's Note - Yet here you are posting on a Rangers forum, pot and kettle springs to mind)

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@Ed: thought it was a site for banter about Rangers, not just for Rangers fans? {The Ed039's Note - It is, I am merely pointing out the hypocrisy of what the poster is saying, nowhere does it say go away and never come back again)

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03 Mar 2013 23:24:20
Another weekend and yet more shocking decisions from referees:

Dundee conceded a goal after the ball is clearly out for a throw in.
St mirren conceded a goal from a corner which should of been a goal kick.
Inverness denied a stone wall penalty.

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Thankfully none of these decisions involved celtic who are known for sporting integrity

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And a club gets away with a slap on the wrist for cheating for 11 years worth 47mill lol, bad decision all over the place

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Watch Spanish football and you will see bad referees.

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Spot on, sfa office will be overflowing with dvd's.

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