Rangers Banter Archive July 06 2012

 

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06 Jul 2012 19:45:18
Just a quick post.... why has Mr Green not posted the figure for the number of fans who have cancelled their direct payment schemes, is this not information that rangers fans actually need to know.
I accept as a celtivc fan I am biased, but I would want to know the standing of my clubs support should I be asked to put any further investment in my club....your season ticket is an investment and you deserve value for your hard earned investment.
If the rumour are true then there will be very limited funds for the newco rangers 2012, to fund any team.
Rangers fans need an explaination before they invest a penny.
Fact or fact.
Timmie Goa.

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I, for one, ain't all that fussed about figures of season ticket sales. Being a season ticket holder myself and also being one of thousands who cancelled the direct debit are more interested in what league we will be playing in. There may be other Gers fans out there who do want to know the season ticket sales figures, but the main priority for us fans is knowing what league we will be in. I cancelled my direct debit purely because I ain't paying for uncertainty, £500 over a 4 month perio, possibly for a team playing in a part time league is just insane. As much as I love the club and will keep supporting them, I ain't paying that much to watch Stirling Albion.

TTG

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06 Jul 2012 18:55:37
well done andy...doin us scots proud...deecee

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First time for everything I suppose.... We agree on something.

Briggs

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I see another Murray was in the news today. David Murray's son and business heir quitting the board of MIH. Heard a wee rumour this just might be connected to the Big Tax Case decision being imminent dunno how true that is though.

Anyway, good luck to Andy on Sunday, he'll likely need it! BB

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06 Jul 2012 14:18:31
How bad have things gone Ed Celtic knocking back 7mill for Ki and we are going for Black and Beattie

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Aw ffs ,stevie wonders out and about at parkheid again valuing their foreign players ,7 million ?,7 million what currency ? doug t.s.o

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The whole of Rangers cost £5.5m and Celtic can knock back £7m for one player.

Mac2.

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And Black and Beattie will not sign. Let's face it NO professional footballer wants to play in SFL3.
I live in south London and have a mate who plays for Bromley 2 divisions below the football league and he would walk into most SFL1 teams. He is ex West Ham (youth) and played with James Dayton SPL goal of the year at Crystal Palace.

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Re Stevie Wonder. Who cares what they value him for, the bid was rejected. I also think Stevie Wonder moonlights for Sion. I mean getting Laffatme for free, they were ripped off. They should have been paid 2m to take him.

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1} we wll get a hell of a lot more for our foreigners than you are getting for yours, lol..shamrock

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Aye right ,like raphael sheidt ,yous have had some dummys over the years ,probably ones i know and you dont dont know ,eg ,paddy turner , frank haffey ( 9.30 am haffey past nine ) lol ,and theres wayne biggins ,karl muggleton ,i could take up the whole page here with them lol doug t.s.o

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06 Jul 2012 17:41:36
Brown,bk,smith,mcoll have all got stick for launching takeover bids. So who realistically would you like to takeover rangers?

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I think its more the way they put bids in id take mccoll and co any day of the week

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Any f*ck that puts up when it counts, has the bunce to do the job, has the best interests of the club at heart and no their own- in short: nobody on that list.

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Some folk wouldn't be happy if God himself showed up with a takeover bid! No pleasing some fans!

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To a REAL billionaire Gers fan, all of the debt could have been paid off, including the big tax thing and we would never have gone into liquidation. So Mr McColl etc why did you all walk away when we needed you most ? Several millionaires stepped up to the plate but dropped the ball instead of bowling a home run,
I am so worried now we face oblivion. Remember if it ends up a vote on entering div 3, spite and hatred may make all the clubs vote for Spartans, or Cove Rangers JUST to keep us out altogether !

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I wish they would all get together and takeover the club as thats what we all need to do is pull together to help the club move forward!!

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06 Jul 2012 15:22:44
its gotta be division three, then we at least build up from the start and get to where we should be under our own steam and by the grace of our loyal support. we are the people!

Danny D

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06 Jul 2012 14:08:27
There will be no stars on the players
tops this season? Manky mob are
winding me up with this all week

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There can't be any stars because this new outfit have never won a title.

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Can anyone tell me who gave the stars in the first place?Never knew why they were there

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There can't b, then u would b taking credit for an extinct clubs success L1888

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That's because it is a retro top in the style of the 72 top,also the 3rd kit still has the 5 stars don't know about the away top yet.

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Any ideas what the new Badge will look like?
Because we don't know what initials the club name will have?

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Not true 5 stars are back above badge on 3rd top

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Stars are up the side on the home top and above the badge on the 3rd strip! Tell the mhanky mhob to worry about their own team and their corrupt league! Wish we hadn't voted with them all those years ago to keep them in the league! How short the memories of that lot seem to be! Ours however are not short and we shall forever remember what the diddy teams done to us! I'm sure there will be plenty of replies of it was Rangers crimes and cheating....simply one reply...show me legal proof of any guilty verdict by any court! You can't cause there are none....guilty until proven innocent in this country! It's a joke society we live in!...vote independence? Don't make me bloody laugh!

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Stars being replaced with a single crown to signify one administration courtesy of HMRC

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Its th company thats no titles not th club it will always b rangers

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After a certain period Rangers can apply for logos, badges, strips and team name to be transfered over. It would involve court cases etc.

Fiorentina went through this exact procedure and were granted their wish.

I would be extremely surprised if Rangers don't do this also.....

TTG

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@7. When was there a vote to keep celtic in the league ? They have never been in admin or liquidated. Is this another sevco watcher fairy story doing the rounds in bomber Brown land ? Try and pay attention at the back.

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TTG, this is Scotland not Italy the law is different and you can't do this with a badge, history etc

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Every team who has won the European cup has a star to celebrate being the best in Europe,so as Rangers have never won this competition they made up a star system for league titles, 1 star for every 10 league titles.

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Fiorentina operate under italian law not scots law.

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@ 13),

I think you'll find that stars on strips was introduced by Juventus in the 50's, each star representing 10 league titles. The big star representing European cup was introduced much later.

Rangers had stars on their strip before Celtic decided to put the star on their strip.

TTG

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@ 12 & 14,

Correct, Fiorentina are under Italian law.

Rangers can, after a period, apply to have the origin team name transfered and also club logo and badges.

Could you clear this up Ed?

TTG {Ed039's Note - I am sure they can apply to courts, it would then be down to legal interpretation of insolvency laws)

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06 Jul 2012 13:36:24
When the dust settles from the kicking that us bears have recieved over the last few months, the ones doing the kicking will slowly start to realise that while they hurt us, they may have infact done more damage to them selfs in the process. I say let us lick our wounds give our club time to heal, and DONT blame us bears if the same fate falls on your club. Once a bear always a bear.

Inverbear

Believable26 Unbelievable21

Explain "The Kicking" yous have recieved?The only damage has been self inflicted from within your defunct club!Also all this tripe about we will drop to DIV3,the rules are as a new club they will have to apply to join DIV3,not get parachuted straight into it!!As clubs like spartans,etc have 3years audited accounts& should gain entry before any newco!,Allys needing too wake up like rest yous wounded bears..The 10points where for going into admin,no european football for 3years for not submitting audited accounts& entering liquidation,£160000fine,is only punishment& will no doubt be unpaid..looks like if the fans of the newco fc dont get behind them,Mr Greene might just have had enough& sell off murray park& ibrox,telling times ahead in this never ending story!!!

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You're flogging a dead horse.It just doesn't sink in.Closed minds

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1) I'll tell you the "kicking". Our club has not paid NI or Paye. What the hell has that to do with sporting integrity? If they had not paid Scootish Power would that be breach of sporting integrity?
It is all rubbish it has nothing to do with sporting integrity. The truth is Whyte wanted administration and thought that would happen in Oct last when the big tax case was to be heard. It was delayed and so looked for another way of reaching his goal. You will tell me we could not afford players and so wouldn't have won titles. Absolute rubbish, we reduced debt in preceding years from £40m to £18m. Then Whyte takes over and in less than six months the debt rises to £50m. Explain that Einstein.
So for one persons (and I use that word lightly) has caused this mess with no explanation of where the money is.
So we end in liquidation and nothing more than hatred of our club has caused this ridiculous situation, the threat of own supporters not buying their season tickets due to sheer hatred. We have beaten these teams for years and years and now they get their own back. What they don't realise is that they are committing suicide in the meantime. So sheer hatred and stupidity is what's happening, you are just too blinkered to see it.
Now we have Morton, as an example, who have an average gate of 1900 having more say than 50,000 who follow us. Their vote was based on 667 votes.
However the Rangers fans now want div three, a thing I do not support, and the fact is that the Rangers fans are now kicking back, they want those people to suffer as they have made us suffer, it really is the behaviour of ten year olds but that is what is happening.
Let me ask you one question, why do HMRC not consider that the newco are liable for old cos sins. Why then do SPL consider otherwise, why do they consider themselves above the body that suffered the non payment?
Answer that without the usual cheat trash.
If there is a good reason I would love to hear it, other than hatred and jealousy.
What a narrow minded bigoted lot we all are in this country, and look at Pompey, helped by all other clubs in the league, no sanctions, HMRC accept 2p in the pound, and they have a history of non payment, I think this is the third time in as many seasons that they have gone into admin.
Don't dare tell me we have not taking a kicking, well enjoy it while you can because we will be back, and we will remember the kicking.

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Its because ally said kicking us when we're down. Never mind the reality.

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06 Jul 2012 12:46:32
If the newco do have to start life in sfl3 its clear the existing players contracts and mccoists will have to be renegotiated or scrapped(players can be sold off course) tupe allows this when the old contracts could put the new company into financial problems. You could n't possibly give a manager 1 million a year at this level i sometimes wonder who advises ally before he speaks will he take a 98% pay cut even then he'd be the top earner in the division . Fair play if he does but i fear he has n't even realised

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06 Jul 2012 12:49:25
John 'bomber' browns rant
Week has put ur club on
The brink of another admin.
He has cut off ur only income
And the money is running out.
Brian

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Totally agree. he is a clown and is hurting the club!

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@Brian. I don't know if you are aware but on the Celtic site (once you started posting regularly on it) I changed my name to Brian (p) as I was a 'guest' on a forum which wasn't my team and I was showing you respect as you were posting on the site of the team you support. I post on this site far more regularly than yourself and still sign off as Brian on this site. How about we agree to sign off as Brian RFC and Brian CFC in future to avoid confusion? There is more than enough of that on here already without readers thinking Brian (i.e. both of us) is a schizophrenic who posts from both sides, lol.

With Respect,

Brian

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06 Jul 2012 12:28:18
Just a little insight as to some interesting facts about wages, tax, payrolls and how players are to conduct themselves at AFC Wimbledon - this is purely for fans info and its great to see how open one club is regarding their on-goings. (ED- You know I refer to AFCW a lot- but its just to remind some Gers fans that there can be positives from a fan base) (and I accept this is based on the English FA)
Members of the AFC Wimbledon Football Club Board will attend our training complex next Friday to introduce themselves to the first-team squad. Board members will meet with the whole squad, including our new players, and talk about what is expected from them in terms of their behaviour as ambassadors for the club. There will be a brief summary of the history of AFC Wimbledon, including a reminder that we are a fans-owned club, and players will be informed about their community involvement and issued with a code of conduct.
During the close season a lot of fairly routine but demanding work continues. For example, a substantial amount of time has been spent completing Football League questionnaires and the amount of paperwork that has to be completed would no doubt surprise some supporters. The questionnaires have included information about ground capacity, pay-roll figures and the salary capping protocol. As part of the last of these, we have to submit extracts of our budget to calculate how much we are allowed to spend on players’ wages. The rules state that no more than 55 per cent of gate money and 55 per cent of the net profit on areas such as merchandising, bar takings and commercial income, plus all of any net transfer income, can be spent on players’ wages. Any club which spends more than the calculated amount is subjected to a player registration embargo but the figures show that we are within the laid-down limits.

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06 Jul 2012 12:14:52
I see Ally has said he needs 14 players.
So no problem then, after all Mr Green
promised all you fans he had 19 signing
targets including 5 playing at Euro 2012
So Ally when is Van Persie signing?
Timalloy

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When we get our arsenal shares back from mr whyte doug t.s.o

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06 Jul 2012 12:10:30
So much to say - so little space.

Firslty I wanted to ask that, given all the airtime and blogspace that non Rangers fans seem to get - where are the eloquent, literate Rangers fans or at least spokespeople who can respond to some of the over the top, blood thirsty type allegations that are being thrown about?
I am really shocked at the way the collective mass of people who support Rangers are just sleepwalking along here - and by the way I don't mean John Brown, etc.

There should be some counter statements of FACT - firstly the EBT issues is certainly a major problem if it is proven, however at this stage it has NOT had a tribunal decision and fundamentally the EBT practice in itself was not illeagal, althoiugh they MAY have been misused and if so punishment is then due, but not in advance.

Secondly the fact is that the club was possibly mis-managed under DM and the board but stupidity or inability to manage is not a crime in itself but I agree that anything that is actually PROVEN to be illeagal should be - but again this is supposition until all the facts are known and a legal decision is made. So again Ranagers are "convicted" in advance.

Thirdly CW was an absolute disaster and has effectively wreaked enough damage in 5 months to wipe out 140 years of history in one go. But this needs to become a criminal matter (which it finally has) - I never understood why this was not a fraud office case on day 1 of administration. Obviously there are more FACTS to emerege over time.

Meanwhile Rangers as a business entity has gone down but unlike your average local building firm or factory who can then emerge again with a workforce and name change - Ranagers the business literally is buried whilst stilllive and kicking.

Fundamentally the opposition fans are right and fair to have a go, wind up Rangers fans, etc - let's be honest it would be the same the other way round...but

The advent of the web and the blog / twitter now sees some real vindictive elements usinig the sporting integrity guise as a means of demanding (and getting) more and more draconian measures applied against any Rangerfs, new or old.

They simply want it all ways - no SPL (quite correct), No SFL 1 (don't want this anyway but even the very suggestion is treated with faux outrage) now NO SFL as we need to compete with Spartans et al to get in first.

If they were honest they would say they don't want to see anything called Rangers, anywhere, ever.

Something backed up by the fact these peol,e play with words on what Rangers are or are not called, etc almost as if their hatred will not alklow the name to be uttered.

Then some journalists who were not up to the job of any investigative or probing work for decades suddenly do a 180degree flip to fall into line with this mass thinking but if they were truly being consitent and now wished to pursue honest journalism they should be doing exactly that, across the board and they could start with some serious expose of DM, then CW and go all the way to SFA.

Finally a wee footnote on the dangers of the sporting integrity card - look already at Dunfermline and Dundee, signs that both want the same ball to play with and only one will win - the language of integrity is fast slipping minto the background.

The same can be said of any "deal" to parachute Rangers into SFL 1 with sanctions, a bit aking to the sort of sporitng integrity of asking Dwayne Chambers to run the 100m with sandbags on his ankles (actually he is allowed to compete again on a fair and even platform as apparentlky integrity can also include rehabilitaion).

So where are the articulate Rangers supporting people to get on to TV / Radio and in the press to try and put forward alternative views, indeed facts?

DD

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There should be some counter statements of FACT - firstly the EBT issues is certainly a major problem if it is proven, however at this stage it has NOT had a tribunal decision and fundamentally the EBT practice in itself was not illeagal, althoiugh they MAY have been misused and if so punishment is then due, but not in advance.

Secondly the fact is that the club was possibly mis-managed under DM and the board but stupidity or inability to manage is not a crime in itself but I agree that anything that is actually PROVEN to be illeagal should be - but again this is supposition until all the facts are known and a legal decision is made. So again Ranagers are "convicted" in advance.

How have Rangers been convicted in advance to any of the dealings that have been going on.

Admin -10points
Bringing the game into disripute £160,000 fine and transfer embargo 1 year.
Liquidation kicked out the league

EBT's Nothing
Non payment of Payee and NI Nothing
Breaking governing bodies rules by going to court Nothing.

So far Rangers have been punished for 3 things and one of them is under consideration again.
So can you all get it in to your head that Rangers have not been harshly punished for their crimes the correct punishment has been applied to the crimes they have been charged with.
Who know what will happen with the other points.
However I dont see how The Rangers can get punished as they will be a totally different company from Rangers. Any further punishment should be with the old owners/board not the new owner/board.

Ian

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Am on here a lot, though don't comment much, as it makes me cringe and laugh, both the comments of Rangers fans...and staff (McCoist etc) who say the club has been punished enough, and also those fans who want to go to SFL3 just to see other clubs suffer! However:
While Rangers are to blame in a sense, and may as yet be guilty of serious crimes, surely the fault at the moment is with the SFA! There is no clear legislation in place (save for 10pt deduction for entering administration). So Rangers cannot use this as a punishment excuse not to be punished more, but, after similar happened to Motherwell and Livingston, while Gretna went bust, why was nothing in place to state what happens when a club enters liquidation? Then there could be no arguments and no bitterness!

Rangers can, and rightly so expect, further punishments to be handed out IF and only IF they are guilty in the dual contracts and EBT scandals...they can't be punished beforehand! So while it is galling to read Ally McCoist say they have been punished enough, it is equally galling to hear and read the opinion of others, and here there is a blood-lust, wanting all manner of sentences and punishments imposed on Rangers who we must presume to be innocent UNTIL proven guilty!

Finally, if clubs are so dependent on Rangers being in the top flight...then I would argue that they are as guilty of financial mismanagement as Rangers! Big lesson learned is clubs must live within their means and rely on themselves! Kilmarnock bemoaning loss of revenue due to Rangers expulsion...what if they had been relegated last season? Would they have gone under?

If anything comes out of this whole mess for the better, hopefully clubs will be better run, and the hatred and bitterness, that goes both ways, can finally be eroded from Scottish Football once and for all. If Rangers are guilty, let them take their medicine, no complaints....but no bitterness if, and I fully expect when, they rise back to their position at the top of the game. They will have served their time.

Good luck.
Mickbhoy

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I wouldn't normally post on other clubs rumour pages but as a Leeds fan ( hate me as much as you like ) I really feel for Rangers and all the fans.

Leeds have been there, each of the last 8 years being a year that passes wondering where you will be next year, indeed whether survival is even achievable. Leeds too have been vilified and blamed for every ill in the English game. Reading the Rangers forum it feels very similar, of course you're not but all the other clubs jump on the bandwagon to apportion blame, it's a shame that they don't see their own recent faults and misdemeanours.

Anyway, good luck to you getting your club back, and it is your club whichever division you get put into. You will be back, it may take time, but you will always have the pride that you are a true Rangers fan and followed the team through thick or thin.

I truly wish the club and true fans all the best, trying times but I look forward to seeing you back where you belong.

David

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Very good post, coming from someone who has been through similar times, with their own club. For all the disagrees, just read celtic fans comments.

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@op You are so right about the journalists.They were too afraid I think to rock the boat,to go out on a limb---they feared the backlash.Now it's like the worm that turned.Where did they get the courage after decades?Sorry about cliches but how else can you talk about it?

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Most contracts contain an escape clause in the event of relegation. If relegated Kilmarnock would have been able to plan in an orderly fashion rather than see a substantial amount of income disappear through no fault of their's.
When 2/3rds of the footballing public support 2 teams it makes it difficult to survive. Rangers could not make ends meet on 10 times Killie's income.
To their credit the beat us home and away last season and won the League Cup.

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To be honest DD I suspect you are one of the few (articulate Gers) and I'm not saying that nastily, of course there are a number but there are still nuggets out there as of only a few days back saying "Can we still sign" Gattuso. I truly think some fans think football news only happens on days when games are traditionally played. You didn't mention European bans, administration, 10 points deduction, I applaud you because all the facts in the world would state they were not punishments but indeed consequences, cheers.

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06 Jul 2012 12:10:21
Sporting Integrity, business integrity, ure having a laff, they aint no such thing. Are all you self employed people honestly declaring your income to taxman and vatman, are all you people on benefits that do 'sideys' letting DWP know, blah blah blah. Get real.....Rangers should take the punishment for getting caught out, DIV 3 is the ONLY acceptable option otherwise I will not renew my season ticket..... but don't give me all that bull about sporting integrity....cupboards are full of skeletons all over the football world including our very own little insignificant leagues (and their chairmen)......people in glass houses and all that....deep down, you all know it

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06 Jul 2012 11:57:15
A Quick question, We have not as yet been liquidated, If that does not happen before the start of the season, then we should still have a place in the SPL albeit with another deduction for being in administration. That being true could the SPL eject us mid season?- Jaxie

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What players as the players owned are a newco contract then you still own money
you cant take bits u wunt & bits you dont.
My god ed where do you atract the like

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Celtic fan here but I agree! Actual process can take months! Hence why, to the chagrin of many others, Rangers can still call themselves Rangers! They are not liquidated yet and should be taking their place in SPL as normal. Then if and when the process goes through, they should be dealt with.....but Gretna were allowed to finish their season when it happened to them! Also means SFA could deal with Rangers IF they are guilty over the dual contract and EBT scandals.

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The problem there is that the stadium and the team and all other assets have been transfered from RFC PLC to another company, the PLC company who previously owned the stadium and the team had the right to the SPL share, thats what the vote was all about, transfering that SPL share from the PLC, who owned the stadium and the team, to the new company who now own the stadium and the team,
by the way do you hear anyone shouting that ibrox now has no history because it has been transfered from one company to another?

JG

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Why don't we start our own division of 2 oldcoy and new coy?

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06 Jul 2012 11:09:20
If its third division for us and it looks like it is, our away support will pack out any of the small venues. We should organise a body of fans to go to Killie home games and give them our backing. Their chairman is the only guy that had a bit sense and said he wanted rangers in the SPL for the money and didn’t vote to kick us out. Now they are being threatened by the other back stabbing bully clubs fans because they made this stance. I’d think it would be funny to see Rangers flags and banners still in the SPL saying what we really feel about this mess and the clubs that kept on kicking us when on our knees. For Killie they would get some extra cash.

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So you want to go to Rugby Park and wave sevco flags and banners? Are you serious?

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OP i disagree - the killie chairman did us no favours by not voting as abstaining effectively counted as a NO so we owe him SFA,
what a pathetic chairman, with the future of his own club, rangers and scottish football all at stake and after all clubs demanded a vote in this rather than leave it to the SPL commitee, he then abstains, Fn pathetic, but he knew what he was doing trying to appease the baying mob, well he didnt fool me mate, if he wanted us in he would have voted YES

he is another who has made his bed now he has to lie in it, i bear killie no ill will but why should we help them? we need to help ourselves first, second, and last

JG

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Absolute tosh! Why would you pay to watch football matches at another club simply because they abstained from a vote?

BigRab

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I am happy that we were not voted back in, sporting integrity(tee fkn hee). I would suggest an agreement was made between the clubs involved, before the vote. Either way, if we start from the bottom, which is fair, and potentially get promotion each season( only potentially now celtic fans) does anyone actually believe that we have done our time? They will still try and hit us with the cheating card. Forgive and forget etc.............aye right. Only a game though.

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Even if they had voted us into the SPL, we would have been hamstrung by penalties that would have been imposed. You'd be lucky if we managed to survive relegation. What would be the point of trying to fight with both hands tied behind our backs?

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06 Jul 2012 11:01:17
do we really need a player like beattie who will spend most of the time in the medical room just like the last beattie we had i say no thanks

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06 Jul 2012 10:46:26
Ed we know you have family,job etc. and do your best to update this site and we appreciate it.

How ever is there any way we can apply to be a ed on the site so it gives you less stress

dan the man {Ed001's Note - yes mate, email using the contact form.}

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06 Jul 2012 08:28:09
The SPL clubs ALL listened to their fans then said they were told THEIR fans wanted us out of the SPL. We have 75% of our fans accept that and say put us into the 3rd division BUT NO ONE LISTENS TO OUR FANS. The SFL are now wanting us put into the 1st division (financial) so where is THE SPORTING INTEGRITY

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Green is fighting to go into D1 as well (financial). We are the only club it seems that is puting money before what the fans want. Isn't this how we got into this mess in the first place FFS.

Same old, same old

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Agreed. The SPL wants to have its cake and eat it here.

I would disband the SPL and go back to 4 divisions of SFL. If that was the structure now then relegation to Division 1 would be straightforward and uncontroversial (or, rather, less controversial). Of course Rangers were one of the reasons the SPL came about in the first place so there is blame there too.

The Raith chairman is right. The SPL is a disaster.

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I think you will find the majority of SFL clubs would like rangers to start in the third division but are being bullied by SPL and SFA to accept rangers in the first division saying if they don't they will be resonsible for the death of scottish football.I think the SPL made a balls of this thinking SFL clubs would bow to their
wishes when they could have accepted Newco Rangers with sanctions into the SPL.
Now the SFA saying if SFL vote Rangers into the third division they will form SPL2
with Rangers in it.
SFL in no win situation because SPL and SFA bottled it
Rocky

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@3. Don't think the SFL are buying the bribes offered by the SPL/SFA. Well done to the SFL clubs for not accepting bribary (So far). Thats the only bit of sporting integrity i've seen so far.

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06 Jul 2012 01:40:21
a bit confused here ,ive just read friday daily record at 0030am and its says only 250 season books have been sold ,yet when i phoned ticket office at the start of the week they told me they werent dealing with season books till they find out where were playing and to keep my eye on the website for news on it doug t.s.o

Believable7 Unbelievable1

The DR never let the truth get in the way of a good story mate

JG

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Could be that those season tickets were sold before the decision to stop selling them. i.e. Last season before we went into liquidation.

DO

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Probably automated renewals that people didnt cancel

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Is it surprising? ..i know many who have cancelled or holding off

No product to sell....to league to playing yet, no product to sell

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Ive got an automatic direct debit renewal with santander ,but dont use the account now since last december ,checking on online banking there has been nothing taken out ,i even offered my new bank details to the ticket office but they wouldnt take them doug t.s.o

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06 Jul 2012 00:38:39
Ally McCoist says 05/07/12 "For the record, in terms of sanctions that have been imposed already, we were deducted 10 points, we had our Champions League place taken away from us, we were fined £160,000, we are out of Europe for another three years and, of course, we are out of the SPL."
Sorry but no. 10pts deduction for entering administration. Champions League place gone for still being in administration come March 31st. Standard punishments for administration. Fined £160k, which now not paid as going into liquidation. Booted out of SPL for going into liquidation. And 3 year ban from europe for being a newco.
So Rangers have NOT yet been punished for EBTS, dual contracts or non-payment of tax's! So please, no more of this nonsense.

Believable37 Unbelievable33

When are people going to realise that serious crimes were commited by certain individuals that resulted in the downfall of one of Scotland's biggest sporting institutions. No further action should be taken until these crimes have been investigated. The SFA and SPL should hang their heads for not investigating these individuals sooner. Even the journalists knew there was something far reaching and wrong going on in late 2011 yet nothing was done. Sadly, that is the nature of business but this must be addressed so this never ever happens again.
Graham

Agree16 Disagree5

Agree. Whereas the creditors got totally screwed. Sick of this spin doctoring and the siege mentality Ally is constantly creating. Feeds the bile of the mindless.

"We don't do walking away". Must have been the royal "We".

Shug

Agree10 Disagree3

The 'oldco' were responsible for EBT's (if proven), dual contracts (if proven) and non payment of taxes. As a consequence of the rejection of the CVA, HMRC and others can now pursue (and they are) the individuals responsible, so the 'newco' has no liability for these issues. If they were to achieve the 'oldco' SPL share, a condition of that would have been picking up 'oldco' liability for footballing issues, but guess what?
The authorities can't have it both ways, we are either a 'newco' who has to apply to the SFL for re-entry, with no european football for three years, with no liabilty for 'oldco' issues, as a consequence of liquidation; or we get the SPL share and pick up the liability as a condition of entry.

BigGordi

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Well considering that the oldco is going into liquidation then how can they be punished?

Punishing the newco is a stupid idea since they are supposed to be a separate entity. If Burger King went into liquidation would you punish McDonalds just becausethey happened to buy out their assets and staff? No, that would be just stupid.

I keep hearing how the oldco is dead and buried and how any future titles we win won't count towards the past but then keep hearing idiots who then say that newco should be punished.

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Correct. Rangers have suffered the CONSEQUENCES of going into administration, staying in administration after the May 31 deadline and finally for becoming a new club without 3years accounts. These are not punishments. These are conditions.

Still to be punishedf or , if found guilty of the allegations surrrounding, EBT dual contracts, wilfully witholding PAYE/VAT and trading while insolvent, the allegedly illegal nature of the club's sale to CW. In any other season they would certainly be punished for the types of things S Jardine has been saying to the rest of Scottish Football and for going to the court of session. {Ed001's Note - except that those things happened to Rangers, not The Rangers/sevco whatever. So your talk of punishments is ridiculous.}

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Very truthfull post, and can i point out that Rangers did not provide their "books" as stipulated and that POSSIBLE fine also in the bin. Duff and Phelps for some unkonwn reason got away with this one, without sanction, any reason why this is not being mentioned? and why are Green and co going about wearing OLD Rangers ties and calling themselves Rangers, without anyone telling them they are not.

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As many people posting on here seem to like to point out, RANGERS, as we're, no longer exist. Therefore and retrospective sanctions that follow in regards to EBT's, dual contracts and non payment of taxes should be against that entity. Since that entity is about to be liquidated, the sanctions themselves will be a moot point. Now please... Let the new company take the footballing club forward as best they can, and let half the population of Glasgow at least have something to look forward to.

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The EBT case is still ongoing, clearly HMRC in fighting a long battle to prove EBT's were illegal. Also, I think you'll find that Craig Whyte is being investigated for his dodgy tax dealings so if found guilty, which he will, he will be punished accordingly. Craig Whyte's dodgy financial actions are the reason HMRC, Hearts, Rapid Vienna etc haven't received due monies. Craig Whyte is being investigated individually, so Rangers won't receive any punishment regarding Whyte's tax shenanigans!

TTG

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Think ull find rangers havent been found guilty of these charges timmy so no more of it

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So you accept new rangers is old rangers then just like us bears good...mark.

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Non payment of tax resulted in going into admin, resulting in 10 point deduction. Also no result on employee benefits and dual contracts, if they wish to punish newco then they should have voted them back into SPL. Other clubs/fans only voted no to newco to have more success, see Craig browns comments about Aberdeen.

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The administration was as a result of not paying taxes, so the resulting punishments for administration have already been handed out. Noting that other non-football companies do not get bans from European trading when they start up as a new company, nor do they have to accept parts of the debts of the previous company.
I do agree that the EBT punishment is still due, but we have as of yet not been proven guilty of any wrong doing by the SFA or the courts, so until this happens "Innocent Until Proven Guilty". Not that much civility is visible at the moment!

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Op you missed global warming, surely we must be to blame for that as well

JG

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How can you punish a newco for actions of another company. Thought they were different or is that just when it comes to history?

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OP -The ebts have not been decided upon until the tax tribunal decides on the appeal, yet you post that we are due a punishment.
Dual contracts has still to be decided upon by the SPL but again you post that as if it has.
I think that the HMRC are onto the non payment of IT and NI.
Until the Tax Tribunal is decided upon, the SPL finish their investigation into the contracts issue and BDO's forensic investigation is complete, you are talking nonsense.

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Why on earth would a new Rangers be hammered with sanctions/punishments when they are a brand new company formed at the beginning of June 2012. These offences were committed by an old company which is now in liquidation so in the eyes of the law all wrongdoings committed by that company have died along with that company. Trying to apply sanctions to a newco just leaves the SFA open to more legal challenges by the newco. Its complete and utter madness to even consider this!!

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EBT's, dual contracts have yet to be proved.

quabba

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I thought that Newco was taking over the old Rangers registration, if that is the case they have to take some of the punishments that would be served to old rangers, if not then they have to have 3 years audited accounts in place before entering the league anywhere.

Vambo

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Here we go again, oldco versus newco. If you want to keep the punishment with the oldco then you have to accept newco as a startup club applying from fresh to join the SFA then any league that will have them. If you want newco to be "Rangers" then you have to have the bad history as well as the good.

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All I know is there were millions of pounds of debt that was 'got away with' and that just won't be forgotten.We all suffered from this and now these are the consequences.

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06 Jul 2012 00:38:26
Anybody noticed the rapid rate at which sponsers are dropping off the website....

Believable18 Unbelievable1

Hmm so no gers fans would want their product? why dont we start boycottn clydsdale an the rest of the advertisers of spl an audi ect,get behind the 3rd div and their advertisers and rise again. what u think ed? {Ed001's Note - boycotts do nothing, it is just petty and childish, in my opinion, to boycott over this.}

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06 Jul 2012 00:16:35
I wish the SPL chairmen and fans would just accept that they want a football genocide in the massacring of Glasgow Rangers FC. When will they accept they can deliver as much punishment as they like to try and kill our club, but they won't be able to kill the fans and WE ARE THE CLUB. We will pass on our history as it lives within us. The rest can only wish their club has such a proud and rich history as ours.

Believable25 Unbelievable20

1) The club didn't need other clubs to bring about it's end, it was suicide the custodians have destroyed it. SDM ran the club with the banks and other peoples money, he blew it all to bring sucess at all costs. He might have broght plenty of honours but have they been worth it to see the club ruined? He sold the club to a petend billionaire asset stripper who couldnt have ran a pub team. Its about time supporters turned their blame on David Murray instead everyone else

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Read the above post in relation to the old Rangers , as for now you have not any punishment as your a NEWCO and as yet not in football in any sense

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Rangers fan myself here but, don't you think the SFA are dragging there heels with this issue also,they won't help make a decision on us going into the Div 3. (which is where we should be) What they are doing now with all these indicisions is effectivley destroying Rangers football club for a second time. Scottish football needs us to some extent for the money issue but we need our fans for us to survive which is the important issue but 250 season tickets sold is shocking but believable as fans don't know if we will be playing fooball at all. Taking to long get it sorted one way or another thats my view.
SCM

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Take a deep breath in and then say this with a calm voice and a clear mind. "The other SPL club chairmen hate football, hate their own teams, hate Scotland and themselves. That is why they voted to bring on Armageddon and commit suicide". Yeah. Of course. It makes complete sense doesn't it?

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Ed, I don't normally have a pop at other posters on here or respond childishly to childlike remarks but this one made me laugh so much that I simply had to bite and show it up for what it is. Nonsense.

@ ..."The other SPL club chairmen hate football, hate their own teams, hate Scotland and themselves. That is why they voted to bring on Armageddon and commit suicide". Yeah. Of course. It makes complete sense doesn't it?

Now take another, even deeper, breath in and then say this with an even calmer voice and clearer mind. "The other SPL club chairmen were always going to vote 'no' in the name of sporting integrity and the threats made to them by their own fans re not renewing their season tickets and boycotting away fixtures which would have caused their clubs untold financial hardship were unnecessary and had no influence upon their decision at all." Yeah, of course. It makes complete sense doesn't it?

The SPL chairmen couldn't vote Rangers in purely because their fans wouldn't allow them to, otherwise it would have been a guaranteed 'yes' vote with major sanctions attached. However, they are determined (ably supported by the SFA it would appear) to wedge us into Division 1 whether the SFL want us there or not. That is the reality of the situation and now that you appear to have finished your dump on this page are you breathing any easier and has your head cleared any? I hear it works wonders. Take a deep breath and think clearly before you type such shxte next time!

Brian

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06 Jul 2012 00:04:52
Whe. We all talking about money here a idea.
Instead of chairmen of dundee & dunfermilne greeting about who gets spl place why not have a match for it.
Hire out a stadium thats fillable sell it to tv n play for it.
If you lose you still made vital extra income.
Secondly going to third div could be making of ally as a manager he will gain vital experiance i.e lambert.
This could be start of new generation.

Believable11 Unbelievable2

Why are that bunch of "cheats" DFC,being allowed not to vote next week?“clear conflict of interest” their owner states? am i dreaming Rangers were allowed a vote on "themselves " staying in SPL now that would have been a "“clear conflict of interest”. This lot would be the only team in Scotland not to have vote on NEWCO and this should not be allowed, they wish to sit on the fence stating publicly for ever that they had nothing to do with whatever happens in Scottish football. In fact they are one of the causes? Twice in admin and still managed to sign more players than anyone last season? They dont even OWN their ground but rent it out ? why should they be allowed back ? They should be asked for up front payment of £300,00 in case they go "bust" during season etc etc.. better safe than sorry.
In fact everyone should boycott this lot for their stance and i mean everyone of all teams.

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OP tell you the truth i dont give a flying F##k who gets the place, its their mess let them make up a new rule to sort it

JG

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06 Jul 2012 00:00:00
Please post this ED....in my opinion its a different outlook on the doom and gloom and Id like to see if anyone agrees.

In my opinion we should go to division 3 and hopefully the majority of us will renew season tickets at reduced prices. Say 25,000? Should this happen and we continue to have our amazing away support.......could this possibly lead to a situation that turns Scottish football on its head?

Teams in division 3 would get increased attendances and as a result of our attendances end up richer than the teams in divisions 1 and 2? In turn they end up progressing up the leagues. Is this what SFA are scared of? I say bring it on and lets roll the dice! I will support my team regardless of what league we are in

Believable21 Unbelievable4

05 Jul 2012 23:59:30
What has happened to renaming murray park? All gone a bit quiet on that.

Believable11 Unbelievable2

Well since every season ticket holder is waiting on learning what league we will be playing in first before buying and green said season ticket holders will vote no point having it now...mark.

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New chairman likes the current name after all for some reason.

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Not a priority just now. But it will happen, I am sure.

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OP i think we have some higher priorities to attend to first, then we can get that monkey off our back

JG

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05 Jul 2012 23:33:20
Queen's Park, Peterhead and Annan Athletic have said they will back Rangers entry into the 3rd Division.

But Dunfermline, Falkirk and Greenock Morton will vote againest them entering the 2nd Division. {Ed039's Note - There is no vote for entering 2nd division)

Believable2 Unbelievable5

05 Jul 2012 23:21:48
Here's what I don't understand. If players refuse to transfer to the new rangers, does this not mean they still belong to the old rangers? In which case, they could have been sold to pay the creditors?

In fact why didn't we just sell them in the first place and throw all the money at the CVA pot? Might have survived if we'd offered say 50p in the pound by selling whittaker, mcgregor, naismith, lafferty, edu and davis.

At least we'd still be in the SPL with the chance of Europe next season (although EBT case obviously still to be decided.....)

SG

Believable15 Unbelievable1

SG there was one small issue being that the transfer window was closed Doh

JG {Ed001's Note - it is possible to get permission to sell players outside the transfer window in cases of financial difficulties, such as administration.}

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Because nobody would buy them knowing they would be free agents after liquidation - duh {Ed001's Note - not true, as they would be sold on the cheap, with no one knowing whether liquidation was going to happen at the time.}

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As a Celtic fan I totally agree with you. It may have been possible to sell these players and make some money from them. They have shown no loyalty to the
club and especially the fans who for years have spent their hard earned cash following their team for years.. JB

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This is a good point. D&P should have sold the top players and charged season ticket holders at the gate.
The debt to the sason ticket holders being honoured but not the Scottish Ambulace Service does not sit easy with me.

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Contract was breached by oldco (no pay amongst other reasons) so they are free.

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ED 01 - ok we may have got permission to sell but no other club would have permission to buy! the window was closed for buying players under contract to other clubs

JG {Ed001's Note - yes they would have been able to do so! You are completely wrong, you apply to UEFA to allow a transfer of registration in a period of financial difficulties. They then provide an exemption and allow players to move outside of the window. The buying club would be covered too.}

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05 Jul 2012 22:58:40
Proof that there is no money in Scottish Football.

Net Current Assets of Scottish Premier League Clubs:

Hearts £-28.5m
Aberdeen £-9.8m
Celtic £-9.2m
Dundee Utd £-8m
Kilmarnock £-3.7m
Hibernian £-2.8m
Ross County £-2m
St Mirren £-337k
Motherwell £8k
St Johnstone £1.3m

Source: Creditsafe.com (5th July 2012)

Believable10 Unbelievable10

Hearts debt is personally owned by Vlad. The overall debt level is coming down and a 500000 profit was made last season. It will be further reduced this season by cutbacks and that is without any incoming transfer fees.
It also doesn't help that we were robbed by a bunch of cheats!

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These teams must have handed in their accounts then. This debt was accumulated trying to keep up with the team once called Rangers. Now they are no longer in football this may all change. Teams will now be able to structure their finaces to budget for each year. Think most have already started this and their debt has been reducing each season.

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I think you'll find that is the current account balance and not net assets. What does your current account balance look like just before pay day. But presumably you still have a house and dcar you own many be other assets. The clubs all own their stadiums and have players that can be sold to raise some money. I don't think any of team except hearts and killie have a major debt problem.

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Wait a minute, do these figures mean all apart from well and st johns cannot afford the players they have and are therefore cheating other clubs by playing players they cant afford, mmmm have i not heard this being fired at us from some of the followers of these same clubs

Unbelievable that these turkeys voted for an early christmas on the 4th of July

Where is their holy mantra "Sporting Integrity" now

JG

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Pmsl yep mate celtic have debt,less than you have stated but we can sell to cover our losses.insteaded of posts like these about clubs actually in existance why not be harrassing your newco board by e-mail about plans for newco club name,strip colours,and players and what division be playing in?his plans cant work without backing of the fans and their cash and you have a right to know,find a decent spokesman,not some knuckledragging person like brown or ally"a slogan spouted to cover his own failings"mccoist,get a fans spokesman that is articulate and realises that threats,wether to green,sfa,sfl,other clubs,wont work.its getting nearer by the day that there might not even be a form of rangers playing football in scotland again.

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Hibs debt is to Sir Tom who won't be asking for it back. But your point is correct - there is no money in Scottish football. The SPL dream of an exciting league bringing in millions to each club disappeared with the ITV digital collapse. For a better idea of finances you need to go back to pre-SPL days.

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@1 you better seriously hope that mad vlad does not get fed up, pack up, and pull out, seems from the posts above that its now ok to have millions of debt as long as your debt is to your owner, dont see the difference myself debt is debt whether it be to a bank or an individual or whatever

JG

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OP, so the entire debt of the SPL as it will stand at the start of the season is less than the debt Rangers had. Rangers being liquidated has, in one simple action, made the SPL more profitable.
Al

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05 Jul 2012 22:58:17
What's the thoughts on div 3 this is the only way out , I know it could kill the SPL but lower leagues would peak , then every year the next league would benefit in the long run this could really enhance the Scottish game , just as long the gers fans keep going to games , on that note who will be going to games next year regardless of where we're playing. I know I will be.... Honest confused wounded blue nose (once a ger always a ger)

Believable8 Unbelievable2

Nicely put ill even take a seat next to u m8 if our days are done so is mine with football it wouldn't be the same supporting another club !!!!

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I agree with you but SFA says the SFL teams lose out on cash from SPL TV deal.

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How is killing the spl ever going to enhance the scottish game? you also qualify your post by saying "just as long as the fans keep going" lets take aff our rose coloured specs div 3 is grim and my worry is how many will continually turn up to see peterhead on a wet wednesday night in december? thats reality, dont need to worry about away games because tickets will be practically impossible to get

JG

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05 Jul 2012 22:29:40
What's the story of the transfer ban? I'm hopelessly confused by this. Ally thinks we are under one. Are we?
How come it applies to newco when it was given to oldco?
And since a court overturned it as illegal, how come we are even talking about it at all? {Ed039's Note - It has not been overturned, the decision has been referred back to the appeals panel)

Believable4 Unbelievable0

No date set yet for the AT.

We are still in administration though and teams in adminstration cannot sign players anyway. BB

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(sigh) You bought Rangers' share in the SPL and hoped to take their place.

If it's SFL3 I guess the problem goes away as you will be applying as a new startup club might apply.

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05 Jul 2012 22:08:12
My apologies i seldom post here more a reader than a poster but can someone define sporting integrity to me. I am rangers fan as is my son i only take him to occssionall games at ibrox ( im a catholic and the brigade dont make for a welcoming football environment). However i always explain to my son it is a dying minority of idiots thankfully that still besmirch our club. Anyway back to sporting integrity mr regans statrment suggests that sporting integriy is only allowed if spl clubs wield it as surely after the spl vote no ( correctly ) how are they entitled to say no and possibly cripple scottish football financially whilst telling sfl they cant vote no to div 1 on same basis. Its one rule for spl while they want to force the sfl to make the decision they were too cowardly to make for themselves. I have no anomosity to any other clubs fans i have believed from the start div 3 is fairest choice and wish our club to be allowed to move on rebuild and restore ourselves. The spl shenanigans need to stop let sporting integrity take us where it should

Believable12 Unbelievable1

There's so called sporting integrity and then there is business integrity. What these SPL chairmen have done may appease their fans, but if the businesses go to the wall or make a loss because of the decisions that they made, then they should be brought to book.

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05 Jul 2012 22:02:21
has anyone read about what's been said about current chairman murray?apparently the other chairmen thought he was arrogant and the brochure they made was crap?what's going on?hamstr

Believable8 Unbelievable0

Oh so they voted no because we did not have a nice shiny brochure

FS get a grip

JG

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Strikes me that what the new regime desparately need is some decent public relations advice!

Agree5 Disagree0

The decision to vote was to be discussed, but Murray's presentation sounded like "We are Rangers, 9 in a row, watp etc etc etc" and that swung the balance. Probably just as well as we'd be even more cluless about the future than we are just now.

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Arrogance yet again from WATP --Rangers men--sunk the ship.Green at least comes over with a bit of humility and is straight talking.C.Murray apology was a disgrace too---shouldn't have bothered.It all added up and didn't help us one wee bit

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05 Jul 2012 21:56:24
rangers to be renamed RFC 2012 plc on July 31st at a meeting at IBrox according to duff and duffer

Believable2 Unbelievable8

No, not rangers. Its Sevco 5088 that are being renamed. Rangers are still Rangers till liquidation day.

Agree1 Disagree1

At no1, no it isnt its oldco rangers being renamed so that it opens the door for newco rangers to take the name afterwards. I thought being a celtic fan you would have been up to speed on this.

Agree1 Disagree0

05 Jul 2012 21:50:09
Does anyone know whats happening
with the umbro contract?
Is that now null and void due to the
fact they made the shirts of the old
co?
Does it mean the branding e.g badge
etc will have to be that of the
newco?

Believable4 Unbelievable1

05 Jul 2012 21:21:00
any ideas what tv station we can watch gers games on ? {Ed039's Note - You might not get anything, maybe rangers tv when decisions are made)

Believable5 Unbelievable0

05 Jul 2012 20:38:16
ed ; strong rumour going about that whytes still involved have you heard anything {Ed039's Note - Just rumours like you but I don't believe it)

Believable4 Unbelievable1

Not involved in newco I doubt but be assured he and his lawyers will try and bleed oldco as much as possible.

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05 Jul 2012 14:09:40
Why no verdict reached on the EBT tax case Ed?

If we win it does it mean the only man who has done wrong in this crisis is Craig Whyte. {Ed039's Note - No there is still the dual contract verdict)

Believable2 Unbelievable0

 
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