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08 Aug 2013 23:08:55
Ed do you know if any of the posters on here will be at the meeting tonight? If they are I hope to god we don't get a repeat of the no revelations from Walter, from Jabba and from Alastair Johnston on BBC Scotland. Stuff City rules here the Gers future (assuming we have one) rules - tell all boys ffs- or all greet
08 Aug 2013 22:34:03
Brian Stockbridge at tonights meeting confirms over £10m in bank- no separate pot between IPO monies and income - no answer to how much IPO money left. States club not running out of money.
£10m in bank, how much is owed out?
So £8m ST sales and only £2m left from IPO and other incomes. £2.4m a month outgoings means 4 months to broke: sept, Oct, Nov, Dec.
Would have been broke if Walter hasn't sold season tickets?
Very easy to say that but will he prove it? The questions were a disgrace to be honest. Who decided what to ask?
Surely this can't be right? 2 yrs season ticket money around £14 mill and £23 mill share issue monies = £37 mill. est. and we have only around £10 Mill left? this is worse than when we were under Murray and challenging yearly in Europe with players of high standard. How can we be spending around if that's the costs since Green takeover? we are losing around £1.2 mill a month impossible surely?
08 Aug 2013 21:12:29
Lets be serious fellow bears. Is it really a good thing to have a boardroom of ALL rangers men? As a Rangers fan I would be quite biased to the legends of the club, like Super Ally, however if there's non rangers men, like Green, he sees the club from a business point of view and always a route of success. The more successful the club is the more I'm his pocket, maybe that's a good route, if Ally fails his targets this year then Green would have the bravery to have a word with him and has already set realistic Targets and hasn't sugar coated things; saying we have the 2nd Highest wage bill in Scotland. However a Rangers man wouldn't see that. Not sure if its a good suggestion, but as regarded before the McColls of the world had their chance last year, Green spoke up. And quite frankly I'm sick f this front page talk of my club, focus on the back page, get the league down us this year, win it, next year but reasonable players at a reasonable price and make sure we have enough dough for the premier league cause let's be serious next season won't be easy. Thoughts?
A perfectly good opinion if connected with the right people.
However, there is a major difference between 'seeing the club from a business point of view' and seeing the club as an opportunity for quick cash turnaround at the expense of stability and a future. I fear Green and his cohorts fall into the later category.
I'm all for non 'Rangers men' as long as they are proper businessmen with a history of integrity. No issue with men like this making a bit of money in the process but not at the expense of the clubs future and the supporters.
Op, is this the same green who agreed to finance director getting heavy bonuses when we get promotion it is absolutely pigs in the trough syndrome. this man should only get a bonus when he returns great financial figures every year and I would not have a problem with that as it would mean we are doing well financially but this just sums up the board just now and they say they will vote on sacking green but he was elected back by the same majority of them whom are now going to discuss sacking him, absolutely ludicrous, nothing has been said at meeting which puts my mind at rest and it would seem after 2 season book incomes and the ipo we only have 10 mill left, please go board en masse and let people who care for the club sort this travesty out. BT
08 Aug 2013 20:51:08
Cost cutting! I have a theory on how the club can save vast amounts of overheads. let's start at the top first, Mather gives himself a heft wage (500k) more than green in his first stint, Stockbridge has two wages (finance director and company secretary) he also has earnings in rangers security as a director (garrison security) he is also a director in rangers retail (Ibrox, Belfast and Glasgow airport) with mr green. So they are taking bundles out of rangers. Mr Mather and mr Stockbridge also control all outgoing expenditure using the facilities dept as the vehicle, this is also costing rangers fortunes the facilities dept has been run by a consultant since February ( how much is this expense alone!) I understand the man running it mr George Angus is supposed to be a facilities expert and he has cut costs but I firmly believe once the final bill comes in for active corporate (mr Iain Morgan) the costs will far outweigh the savings. Then we move on to other influential and ineffective staff members who are a high cost and could be removed and thus saving the club and the lower staff members who have been made redundant and the ones who are still under threat. Firstly mr Angus ( and then advertise for the correct person to run the department instead of spending fortunes on consultants fees) then we have Jim traynor head of comms vast wage ineffective. Project co ordination Gordon Mcallister why have a project coordinator when there is no projects. He is on a hefty wage and has been hiding for 20 years done very well from rangers but time to go. ken overmans finance administrator another who has blood on his hands and will be heavily involved in the latest skulduggery ( remember him and Craig white) there are several other people who have jumped into bed with Mather and Stockbridge and green just to aid their own agendas all will come out in the wash and I for one will gladly name and shame them when the time is right
08 Aug 2013 22:43:29
I have just read the full list of 50 questions that where supposed to be presented to the Q&A tonight. There is some really great and pertinent questions on the list, wonder if they will answer any of them truthfully!
Saw one reply from Stockbridge saying we have £10M in the bank, if that is the case we are really in trouble! As I think that would only cover the season ticket money and probably some other income streams. Where is the IPO money? Can't wait till we see the full Q&A results
08 Aug 2013 20:27:26
I have a good friend in Argyll, (who is a close friend with mccoist), he explained to me today that the reason mccoist was not sacked was due to the share price drop after mr. greeens return had a negative impact on the share price less than half the price of a peak within 6 months,
if mccoist had been sacked with pay off and again the impact on the share price would of finished the new rangers that day.
that's why mccoist is free to express himself not fearing the chop.
walter left as the state of the finances are beyond repair.
their will be far more doom and gloom before the sunshine is back
08 Aug 2013 19:00:48
Well fellow bears do you think this meeting tonight will change anything? It would be very Interesting if all the pertinent questions that need to be asked are asked. Also do you think we (the supporters) will get a full list of all questions asked and what answers are given, as I believe the club has rolled out the full politburo to fend off any awkward question. This I think should highlight if the supporters clubs have the clout or b****s to get the right answers and report back to the supporters. We shall see?
They will be selective in what answers they give. WW
Any info yet arrived from meeting?
Can I make a bet that the answers are a bit "cloudy/misty" in their answer and the vital questions remain unanswered. Hope not though because I really am getting sick of the whole thing
Ed, unless I am misreading the RST statement on its website has tonight's meeting been postponed due to business pressures. ? Rather convenient don't you think? No answers again. {Ed001's Note - I think you must have misread it.}
08 Aug 2013 18:03:56
Ed do you think rangers will ever win the big league again? {The Ed039's Note -yes, but not for a long time)
Ed how long, hearing 10-20 years? in some quarters.
has green offended uefa that much? {The Ed039's Note - what's it got to do with uefa?
08 Aug 2013 18:00:37
This will put the club on a good footing for another year:
1. 15% staff layoffs, diagonal slice of company.
2. All staff from CEO to cleaning lady take 15% wage cuts.
3. All bonuses stopped for two years.
That's all it needs,
Funny thing is mate, when the oldco went into administration they freed 2 players, made no redundancies whatsoever from the staff, got the players to take a wage deferral and tried to sign Daniel Cousin on 7 grand a week. Now after getting to start again and be called the same club walking away from masses of debt and after a 22 million share issue we find ourselves talking about making redundancies. Can anyone honestly argue with me that if we had a more competent manager, capable of winning games without a 7 million budget to beat part time players and on 1 million a year we would be considering laying these members of staff off. Where's Ally's battle cry now to keep the cleaning ladies, cooks etc in there jobs. Why is the saint Ally not taking a wage cut to ensure no one is having to go and find another job? Its all a massive joke, the club as turned into an absolute farce.
Why McCoist and his 2 pals are being payed 1.5 million a year at this level is absolutely beyond the reals of belief. They should have been told from day one of this new setup if they wanted to be part of there beloved Rangers they would have to take 50% wage cuts at the very least. They should have had the same kind of deal they are giving the players they sign, rising as they move up the leagues and based on performances.
But i'll just be branded a timmy for saying what everyone in there heart of hearts knows.
Marbella Bear {The Ed039's Note - great post)
THE CLEANING LADIES DESERVE EVERY PENNY THEY EARN/
Rubbish, 100% directors layoff and no wages at all for any them.
That alone will save us around 3 million a year due to their bonus structures, why pay of the honest Rangers staff who have been with us all the way and pay cuts on manager and his staff will be another massive saving and lastly players take a cut. easy.
Your post does have some valid points but the club could do a lot more with the current costs there is a wasps nest at Ibrox stadium and there could be legitimate pay offs and save large wages if they had the bottle to actually make the larger earners who do not justify their wages. 95% of the rangers staff are loyal to the core and committed to the club and do not get great wages why penalise them to save paltry amounts. The real high earners are culpable. Also I think ally worked for free during administration and so did Kenny and Ian with lee McCullouch and some other players. Ally is dealing with far greater forces than any other manger in rangers history (fact) and I know he would be delighted to focus only on football matters. Maybe one day he will be able to do this and we can move on and get the club on a better footing. So I say start at the very top and work your way down and clean the club.
At least your saving on silver polish
Is it not possible that there is too many staff at ibrox and some cuts need to be made? Every large business does it why talk so much cr@p because we have to let a few people go
JG
08 Aug 2013 17:33:04
regardless of IPO money - what happened to the fact that the prospectus stated 9M was required for stadium repairs. is this the real problem. spend 9m on stadium and have nothing left. or don't spend 9M on stadium and have no where to play?
Funny I was thinking along the same lines a couple of days ago. Would love to know the official deadline, as some of the repairs are serious. So it begs the question. Where is the money that was raised in to tackle it?
Aye Ready
Repairs not needed as of now or we wouldn't have been allowed to buy our season tickets for certain areas.
Another one misquoting the prospectus without even reading it
JG
08 Aug 2013 17:09:10
Does anyone else find it strange that in these fifty questions the deeds to Ibrox and MP are not mentioned? Also is it wise loaning young Aird to Aberdeen? Given the bad blood between the clubs fans I can't see him being accepted up there.
Greg wylde is up there and he's been accepted.
08 Aug 2013 16:11:28
Alistair McCoist doesn't go walking away. For the following reasons.
1. He has a personal investment in the club.
2. He knows his managerial name is poisonous partially to him being at the helm at a club courting disaster. He can't identify a player he can't coach nor manage. This was even apparent when WS let him take charge in cup games to bleed him in to the hot seat (so nothing new here) therefore if he leaves rangers he won't get another managerial position anywhere.
3. He wouldn't get paid a million pound a year anywhere else other than this cash cow.
4. He knows the club cannot replace him because they can't afford the pay off and no manager worth there salt would take a position with the current problems.
The club should have accepted that they would have to live within their means. Gone back to a drawing board and honed youth development like Leeds did before they mismanaged themselves. It's clear the reason they didn't was because the people running the club wanted the quick buck. McCoist was given a lot of money to spend we will see of that buys success in short term. But all it will do is serve as a short term expensive repair which will fail like a back street garage pushing newspaper in the rusty wing. It takes many many years of average to get a stable club with good youth development Ajax always mentioned. The club is still like a 16 year old with their poor fathers credit card
Great post mate 100% agree. With 30,000 plus season tickets with good young coaches and young talent who became salable assets the club should have been stacking up the cash instead of which Ally's basic is the same as the club receives from 4,000 season tickets sales. McColl, Blin and the corporate investors who back their demand for change must succeed and cut costs to survive.
I knew someone would try and smell the other mob comment. I can assure you that I'm not. Reducing the cost base was what independent accountants have been going on about however McCoists wages have not been reduced. You would think a true blue would have done this voluntarily especially when McCoist is already listed in the share offer prospectus as owning 1 million shares in the club, a stake of just under 3 per cent. So by taking a million out per year shouldn't be in his interest. Also means by continuing to take this others in the club will be made redundant.
Go on then. Give me a full list of the big money signings ally has made since 2011 when he took over? I recall a few bargain buys in first window and free transfers since. {The Ed039's Note - to be fair, at the level we are at, temps, law, daly, black, bell etc even without a fee must be considered big money signings)
I've said for ages we likely needed a lot more austerity and this was the time to bring on the youths.
Sadly this wasn't to be the case as I don't think Ally was confident enough in his own abilities to even win leagues against part timers with youngsters along with the likes of Jig, Wallace and Alexander.
I believe though it may yet come to pass if the McColl consortium wins out as McColl has said that the club needs to live within its means and be self financing. This is maybe the best we can hope for for some years but at least we'll avoid the worry of another admin or liquidation.
The youngsters are the ones who you were all whinging and moaning about last season
Anyone, and I mean anyone, who expected us to win the league cup or the scottish cup this year is utterly delusional so let's get that out of the way
We've made 8 signings, played 1 game using 2 of them and wiped the floor with the opposition, played 1 game without any and got beat
I'm sick to the back teeth of all this 'failure to bring through the kids' nonsense, who exactly isn't getting a chance?
Aird and McKay are getting their chances from the bench as youngsters usually do, McLeod, Crawford, McAusland and Hegarty will be in the team for at least the next month, let's see how those superstar wonderkids deal with things
I don't mean to be negative but some people are out of their minds if they think a team full of youngsters will win anything
but it's all Ally's fault isn't it, nothing to do with Andy Little missing 3 sitters or Jig letting the ball bounce over him, he plays 1 striker because he had 1 (alleged) striker, Tempelton hardly put on the shooting boots when he moved up did he
I sometimes wonder what's the point, carry on regardless
Mc Coist hasn't spent any monies yet still think large amount of players signed in pre contract and played as trialists will never kick a ball in anger and be dropped due to financial reasons
@5. Exactly. Too easy to blame manager. Modern football culture I'm afraid. Makes me laugh when people go on about that night in malmo. No one wants to remember we were one nil up when Whittaker threw the ball away and got a red. Talk about game changer. The players get let off time and again. Only so much you can do as boss. When they go over the line its up to them.
Ed yes they may be a high calibre if signing in this standard. But compared to what hos predecessors had at their disposal is a joke. Ally gets called worse manager ever. Has he even paid over a million for a player in his time? Let alone the multi million ones smith and advocaat made. Temps, black shiels bell moshni etc aren't fit to lace previous rangers players boots. You cannot say ally has had a fair go at being rangers manager.
Can you remind me when he gave youth a chance, I would have played all the young guys, (last year)and forgot about all these rubbish guys that ally signed, he might have played2 or 3 young boys, but he played them in with absolute sh*te, he bought the wrong players, he picked the wrong team, he used the wrong tactics, and he still gets applauded against newcastle, (unbelievable), this season he has bought better players, (makes you think they have got someone in to advise him this time), or maybe they are not fully rangers yet, but they will walk the league if all the signings go through, unless ally tries to manage them.
@9 you would have been looking at another season in the bottom tier, a real mass revolt from the fans, no season tickets and potentially the death of the club for real
Jig and Little scored 50 odd goals between them, take them out of the equation and you would have been left with an injury riddled Hemmings and a chronically god awful Naismith
unless of course you're advocating playing players out of position
08 Aug 2013 15:40:40
Rumoured that Rangers only signed these 7 players to increase their stock when they go into administration next Feb. / Mar. They will have increased Rangers share value without costing rangers a cent in transfer fees
If they go into administration as we know from experience they can either TUPE across or walk away - so they will be worth zilch if we go into admin.
And like the fact they can play football is a side issue? I suppose better have them doing something than getting wages for nothing till February/March. The last rumour I heard about this was that admin was in January and the reason for these players is that RFC should have built up a significant lead in the table so that when the points deduction comes along these players will be good enough to still win the league even after the deduction.
That Ally is a mastermind. Must of got knocked out the cup in case extra games might drain the players and therefore he can concentrate solely on the league. You sure Ally didn't start this rumour to cover up the forfar game?
From the stuff going around Feb/March may be optimistic.
And we are to take your word on that? Maybe if you actualy knew how many players we have signed, it would be easier to beleive that you knew ANY inside info.
@1 your a mile out a man of your experience would know players Tupe from the old co to newco via liquidation! Admin would mean wage cuts if it's anything like the last one but more likely to see players sold especially the ones we would want to keep like Law.
Larky Bear
Just a thought on the admin possibility? what would the point deduction be?
Would this be our first admin period or second?
That will get them across the city going berserk with conspiracy theorys
@6 it will be second admin it'll probs be between 20 -25 points and a cash fine just cause we're rangers
@7 How will it be second admin, Rangers are a new club who started at the bottom of Div 3 this will be their 1st admin. The sins of the father cannot be put upon his Son.
They dealt with this last night on the radio they seemed to think because the share was transfered and not a new share it would be a second admin so bigger penalty and if you argue against you are confirming it is a new club but if celtic supporters argue for it they are saying you are the same old club
If you go into admin it'll be your second admin, because you're the same club. Aren't you? Is that not what you have whined and moaned and shouted since last year? 140 years of history and all that? Or will that not suit and you can be a new club when the torpedo hits and sinks you again?
LLSMFCF
08 Aug 2013 15:01:07
Baton down the hatches, get ready for a few weeks pr spin, but admin is a Genuine possibility, if make it too the end of the season it will be a minor miracle. steff
Other clubs fans stated in here in February the cash could only last to end Dec2013.
Why has it taken you all six months to cotton on? You believed the club dismissing it as Timmy jealousy and bs like that. Living in denial of obvious facts. Now it's six weeks to get an EGM. And to accounts. There's no time left to turn it around.
Other fans warned you whilst Neil Patey reassured you it was all great.
08 Aug 2013 13:44:48
Here is a quick heads up. Ticketus. don't think for a minute they have gone away. There is rumours they are behind Green and Ahmad that is why these investment vehicles will not reveal investors names.
Perhaps £5.5m was ventured by ticketus to secure the assets on top of the £18m blown. Whyte delivered that through D&P to green. Who are blue pitch holdings propping up green? And voting malcolm murray out? Are they Ticketus? Or octopus the parent company? Do they own Murray park outright?
Funny how Whyte turned up in country and then Stockbridge had folders/ covers to show to Jabba is Whyte holding the deeds?
Perhaps £10m of share money already paid back to Ticketus? Who knows? It's all speculation until honest answers are given?
I though Mather was a plant by Green and maybe he was. I just wonder now if he has turned and now wants to do his best for us. It would explain why Green came running back so quickly to protect his share price.
@1 you have some imagination, I must admit
JG
08 Aug 2013 12:55:36
Just trying to get away from this boardroom nonsense for a minute, I'm personally looking forward to the Scotland vs England game, I hope strachan plays the same 11 that played in Croatia and doesn't stick in the players that deserted the squad for that game, any thoughts? What about you ed? {Ed001's Note - personally international football doesn't interest me, I just don't enjoy it, though I usually end up watching it and then wishing I didn't waste my time doing so!}
I agree 100% with Ed I despise international football makes for a pishy Coupon! I only really enjoy watching Italy, Germany & the Brazilians but I am keeping my eye on the Belgian national side what a team of young talented players they have from front too back excluding big Van Buyten In the young department lol.
Larky Bear
Lol Larky is that a pishy football coupon or a pishy face coupon? I've seen Scotland leave me with both :)
Gaz
LOL It's usually just the pishy coupon that makes my coupon pishy Gaz. I have no hope for Scotland to be honest with you mate there's a bit inside me wants them too win when I watch them play but I don't let them upset me if they lose. Internationals are just balls like ED said.
Larky Bear
They are a bookies wet dream Larky, can lose to terrible teams and then win in Croatia or France.
Gaz
Ed balls, isn't he a politician larky? Ha.
08 Aug 2013 12:12:42
aird going on loan to Aberdeen and neil alexanders back in training on tv
Sake man we will regret loaning out wee Fraiser he's ready to compete for a place in this team he's got a great attitude & shows some determination to put the ball in the net. Good luck to him though will give him much needed experience & hel get to work under a talented manager for a change.
Larky Bear
08 Aug 2013 13:30:13
I heard about these redundancies. Also heard that the playing staff are subject to cuts as well. Rangers may well end up with more egg on there faces come September when some of the player who are due to sign don't because of the financial mess.
Think it's more a case of trying to get current players moved on. Wallace, Black and Shiels the players most wanted off the wage bill
I think you will find contracts have
been signed but can't be registered
until September
billy h
@2 remember contracts can still be void. especially the pre contracts
@3/ Wishart on Clyde said that the contracts were binding regardless of registration.
@ 3 would it not cost us if we
were to void contracts in
compensating the players?
billy h
@3 surely though these players would be entitled to some sort of compensation if that were the case. You can't just rip up a pre contract without some sort of compensation. Did Ross County not have to pay something to St Johnstone when one of their players cancelled his pre contract agreenent
Can the employees not do anything about being made redundant by the club because surely this can't be done when the club are bringing in a consultant
08 Aug 2013 12:23:18
To tmwnn
After an 8 day stalkerfest on Celtic websites at the end of last season you didn't see my name in them and came to remarkable conclusion that I am an Aberdeen fan. You have made the claim again today. This latest one based on me saying Rangers wouldn't look forward to going to Ross Co, St Johnstone or Aberdeen in the Scottish Cup presumably.
Did I say they would flourish? No. I was basing it on the fact that for whatever reason Aberdeen do tend to up their game against Rangers and that unlike yourselves they do seem to have a reasonably good manager.
Here's a challenge for you, I promise I will never come back in here mocking endless nonsense some of you post if you can produce one shred of evidence that I am an Aberdeen fan. I can categorically say I am a Celtic fan first and last and if had a second team, third team or even a fourth team in Scottish football (which I don't) Aberdeen would figure nowhere in that list. Okay?
Three consecutive replies I posted to you in May did not get put up, that is the only reason you got away with it then too, got it?
If you think for one second that your infantile and surreal conclusions will prevent me, a Celtic supporter, from coming in here then dream on.
Gaz
Lets hope this dream comes true!
@1) There are some very good Rangers fans comments in here (SPM springs to mind immediately). But if some of you would stop posting inaccurate mince, ie possession stats v Barcelona, or trying to score a cheap petty point about a draw away to Elfsborg (4 days after Forfar!). Then I guarantee myself and others would be quieter. The stage is yours.
Gaz
When do the schools go back, Ed?
Paddy Malarkey
Gaz me & you have had it out on here before & also had some decent conversations about NFL if you remember correctly, this may shock & appaul you but no one gives 2 monkeys what team you support. As far as I'm concerned everyone's welcome on here aslong as it's not just to Troll or post Bile, you post more sense than a lot of Gers fans & I'm happy to listen to all Tic fans because you manage to dig up the dirt that others don't. So carry on mate this site needs controversial Tims. No offence to our Eds but we don't have a 007 to hammer down on your lot like the abuse I used to get on the Celtic page. Saying that ED001 made a marvellous job of ousting that in his words "offensive knob" shammy LOL still a belter that one!
Larky Bear
Sadly gaz, you and your fellow celts won't be quiet on here, you love rangers too much not to come on an post screeds about our club.
Tell you what gaz, just beat it
Chick
Gaz you are acting like a spoilt brat.
You refer to 'infantile' well to be honest what the hell is this
'Here's a challenge for you, I promise I will never come back in here mocking endless nonsense some of you post if you can produce one shred of evidence that I am an Aberdeen fan. I can categorically say I am a Celtic fan first and last and if had a second team,. '
You must have a real problem when you can refer to 3 posts you didn't even get posted some 5 months ago!
Now tell me who is stalking who here? if you regularly troll this site searching for posts by your own admission
'Three consecutive replies I posted to you in May did not get put up, that is the only reason you got away with it then too, got it?'
To be honest Ed I don't post a lot but do visit quite regularly, but this sort of personal vendetta from 'Gaz' should not be allowed up. The event is 5 months old, meaningless to everyone else bar Gaz and his troll type ego. Would you post similar posts for others about events that occurred some 5 months ago and only involved two posters about what? he said, I said type?
Cheers Larky, yup I remember our NFL talks well.
Tell you what Chick, jog on.
@7) in May (not 5 months ago as you stressed 4 times) tmwnn said I was an Aberdeen fan, I tried to reply 3 times to him but it did not get posted, fine I left it at that. Then yesterday, out of the blue, he did the same. I would gladly have replied to him on that thread but it was already on banter page 2, you can't reply on there. It's a banter site, the jibe didn't offend but I would still like the right to reply so I replied to him on a new thread, that okay with you? That meet with your approval and who exactly is my vendetta against oh nameless poster 7?
Gaz
Gaz and larky, get a room!,!
JG
08 Aug 2013 11:40:01
Someone was hinting below that BDO might offer light at the end of the tunnel by possibly unwinding the asset sale to Green. This has been muted on here many times, mostly in the beginning by Celtic fans.
D&P have apparently been investigated by their regulator and been given a full clean bill of health regarding the admin of rangers and failed CVA process and asset sale.
Indeed there's also been a Pinsett masons report stating green did nothing wrong when he purchased the assets. Fully scrutinised by SFA and accepted.
That means unwinding a plc share offering meaning the London stock exchange didn't do proper due dilligence or something? Hmmmmm embarrassing the city of London now? I really don't think so.
HMRC as a creditor and possible bigger creditor won't allow BDO to finally cease oldco RFC until the outstanding big tax case runs its full conclusive course.
You are a bit selective there. Pinsent Masons report was paid for by the club so there is an element of conflict there. The SFA also only had what they were allowed to see. There was no interview with Green or Whyte by PM either.
They rarely unwind, most that would happen is they would as for a payment to cover any underselling of assets.
False d&p have been cleared by fsa no case to answer think you will find these guys whyte and green etc do this for a living and are on the edge of the law but don't break it
I agree with your comment regarding the appeal from HMRC. Once this is decided things will be a lot clearer. BDO will have a clearer picture, which may or may not involve administration mark II. Again when the dust settles (now who said that recently?) we will see Dave King make his move.
What's happening at the moment is nothing other than a high stake game of chicken. Chico want's to cut and run, I think that's obvious. However he want's too much for only 28%. Let's see how much money is left. Let's see if paye and other taxes are up to date. Let's see if CG and his men put more money in.
Didn't BDO try to finally wind it up a few months ago but HMRC or another got a court order not to? Ticketus?
McColl/ king will let it go bust again. That's surely the intelligent plan then offer a £3m CVA and get it for that.
No need to try and save it with bigger cash and buying into this plc.
If I was a creditor, particularly utilities company or public body owed money, like the electricity or telecoms or police If be asking for months payments in advance.
08 Aug 2013 10:55:54
Mather has surely duped Ally? Him and Green clearly decided to play good guy bad guy with Allys emotions and its working.
When Mather dumps gullible McCostly no more touchy feely photos, he'll break his heart. Lol.
Or is it ally duping the fans? He backed whyte, he backed green and now mather, ally knows he will never get a job like this again, ally us a desperate man who knows he's out his depth.
08 Aug 2013 10:34:21
What do the fans think of McColl, Paul Murray, Dave King and all the other Blue Knights?
So far, despite all being very wealthy men, they have not put a penny into the club, now they are talking about taking over Rangers but still not investing in club. All they want to do is put their men in the boardroom.
Green at least put his money on the table.
Also are Murray and King not banned from being directors, so who can you trust in the boardroom just now?
As for Ally, he will sit tight and collect his £1m pay as usual.
Don't know about the others you mention, but Dave King lost millions when rangers old co folded he had previously invested 20 million when
Sir David ran the club.
So can you blame him if he is reluctant to put up anymore cash
As a long time critic of Charles Green, I'll be glad once they finally make their move.
What fans need to do is assess carefully what is best for Rangers and act on it. I certainly won't be placing McColl and co as above criticism - their track record up till now hasn't been great in helping Rangers - and I won't be fawning over them the way most fans fawned over Whyte and then Green, that is just embarrassing and many bears I feel should actually be ashamed of the way they believed everything Green promised without questioning him i. e the Arsenal shares, Dallas Cowboys, taking court action to get Rangers laying in England.
I'm cautiously optimistic but not getting carried away.
Did Green put money in the Club?
Actually he didn't, he was the front man for some investors who purchased the money in the form of a loan which the Club had to pay back. Green picked up most of his shares as a reward and the rest at a discounted price that means they basically pay for themselves when he eventually sells up.
The Easdales have clearly bought their place on the board. As is correct and proper. McColl wants two places on the board for nothing. That sounds like a big spiv trick if you can get away with it. If you want such influence of a plc you need to pay for it. Buy up shares for 42p on the stock exchange.
@op they have got shares in rangers and it's quite a few big shareholders who want these people on the board and rid of green & co I seriously doubt Murray is banned that would be really stupid of mccoll an co I don't know about king but I don't think he is
08 Aug 2013 10:33:33
Interesting comments from Dave King this morning in the daily mail. He wants to invest money in Rangers, but not to line Green and co's pockets and at their over inflated offer price. He wants to put his money directly in to help the club/team. He also would not trust the current board with his money. Highlighting that the salaries being paid to Green andco will likely have up back Iin administration by Christmas.
We need change so Rangers, and a new more trustworthy board. Green and co has had enough from us with their 600k+ annual salaries.
They need to go and soon, before we are staring liquiation in the face once more, and Green can choose his Duff and Duffer to pass the club onto the next set of crooks.
How are we lookin at liquidation mate green and co will be out of the boardroom in the next six weeks they either leave or get voted out mccolls story in the paper and smith tellin the fans they need to back mccolls bid for power he also said the big shareholders are willing to put more money in but not until green and co are gone
King says £5m left (from £22m IPO + £6m 2012 ST)!!
08 Aug 2013 10:31:40
The shareholders own rangers. green showing his true colours wanting £14m walking away wth few million his back pocket just being a greedy c. t. not going to happen. majority of gets fans want somebody on board running club properly not giving themselves big salarys. I think mc coll and Murray will eventually if we get rid of agent green
Very greedy apparently that price equates to 70p a share. No one going to pay that when share price is only 42p
Why carnt mccoll just buy his shares at 40p to own enough to get a seat on the board
Exactly 1. Green using deflection tactics. I think.
@2 mccoll doesn't want a seat on the board he's the spearhead of a group of the big shareholders to get green and co out the boardroom and get Murray and blin into fix the mess
08 Aug 2013 09:50:11
I am Spartacus and I have one share.
No I am Spartacus and I have one share.
No I am Spartacus and I have one share.
If they can identify Spartacus can he get a seat on the merry go round (sorry the board).
08 Aug 2013 09:16:58
Just had a thought, can we (supporters) get a FREEDOM OF INFORMATION REQUEST (FOI) to ask rangers how much they are spending on consultants, how many they are using and for how long they have been paying them? Not sure how it works or does rangers need to comply? If any gers fans know anything about this process can you let me know
Thanks
Therealranger
You are entitled to ask at the AGM if you are a shareholder. Questions are usually sent in prior to the meeting so the directors have an answer ready. No actual obligation on them to supply an answer, but shareholders in theory can use that as an excuse to vote them off Board if enough votes can be gathered.
Green claimed on TV he is charging £1k per month. This is obviously nonsense. I think he will be on that per week at least. I think any shareholder has the right to inspect the books if they request this, I might be wrong though.
No - they not a public body and don't belong the to FOI sector.
Next - feel like SAHB!
Any single shareholder can request such detail and request access to the company offices to see the books and ask questions. A stand up comedian type guy did it with BP years ago. Its a powerful law jn the uk but most people don't know about it. You have to pay any incidental costs of photocopying/ administrators time.
It's why McColl has four shares. He is entitled to query and get answers.
The FOI act only covers public sector organisations and would not cover Rangers. PB
It's not FOI.
A shareholder (one share) is not a member of the public. A shareholder is an OWNER and can inspect the business anytime. Gain access to offices and accounts.
Nonsense!
A shareholder has NO right of access to company internal documents at all. they have rights but NOT internal documents. Just imagine, I an chief exec of a company so I buy 1 share of each of my competitors and then ask for their internal records?
Remember Murray mark2 stated he couldn't even get access to the books and he was the CHAIRMAN!
FOI is public bodies only
08 Aug 2013 08:06:01
Dave King's comments make interesting reading and, in my opinion, sum up the situation. To summarize he will come up with cash to get rid of Green, if he starts being realistic about the value of his shares. In Dave King's words '' If Green keeps going the way things are proceeding, there will be no cash by Christmas. ''
King has always been the man I wanted in overall control, many may disagree, so Baybear, for starters, what's your thoughts. Although I don't always agree with you, I take notice of your comments.
Cheers fellow bears.
billyb
Green will sell as soon as he can. Instead of all the posturing why don't these guys just ask him straight how much he wants. I suspect the Easdales already have an agreement in place tbh.
Billy here are my thoughts for what they are worth
AS I have posted previously, there are millions of shares other than greens that can be bought much cheaper, 14m for 51% of the company at todays share price that's an overall majority in any decisions or voting on how the company is run
I know king invested a fair whack previously but to now say he is waiting till green drops his price is a total cop out for the reason above
Once again all talk no money on the table to back it up, if there are so many willing to save rangers, McColl, King, Murray, etc why don't they get organised and put their own consortium together
I am tired of all these "rangers men" telling us how bad the situation is and doing nothing about it
Lets put one myth to bed Celtic were not saved by their fans, they were saved by businessmen, bunnet, dempsey, haughey, desmond, etc who were backed by the fans,
we need the same
Time to put up or shut up
JG
Neither Dave king nor P Murray are solutions nor answers, they're both banned as directors in association football. That's their current status.
08 Aug 2013 11:21:18
It's funny that anyone who has suggested admin 2 will happen by Christmas has been labelled a Celtic fan. Is Dave King one too? lol
JG 14m gets you 51% of what Rifc. but its got a holding company above it (which probably own the assets). you can't buy that its not public.
So why pay £14m and found you bought nothing. ?
I'm never felt to comfortable with King either to be honest Billy. That said, I won't profess to have looked into the man much and I'm maybe just wary because of past press reports. I can only really say this, if McColl is happy to be associated with him at any point then that will do for me. I don't think McColls judgement or integrity has ever been called into question, even by those who think he should just chuck money at us because he's a Rangers supporter.
@3 I don't think they are barred as shareholders, if they had the majority they could appoint the board, they don't need to be on it
JG
JG. You are correct, all the celtic fans managed to do was motivate the business community to part with their cash. Our ' Rangers men', I agree are all hot air but I feel when push comes to shove, Dave King will show the colour of his cash. To all those who have their doubts about his status, just watch developments.
billyb
The real issue here isn't if 28% of the company is really worth £14m. First off the market indicates it isn't but the burning question is why isn't King therefore hoovering up any of the other 72% at 42p a share as opposed to Green's valuation of about 70p?
11% of it is fan owned who may well want to hold onto them but that still leaves 61% out there. I think King is every bit as much a bulls****** as the rest of them.
And he still has 316 charges to answer in South Africa which may keep him a tad busy for a while.
Gaz
@5 I really get blown away by some posts on here and how little knowledge people have on this
keep up, here is the story to date
RFCL aquired the assets and business of the club on 14th June 2012 from RFC2012plc
RIFC plc floated on the AIM
RIFC plc aquired RFCL and all its assets under the share exchange agreement and in return gave shares in RIFC plc to the shareholders of RFCL e. g. Green's 15% of RFCL was transferred to 7. 7% of RIFC plc
RIFC plc is the f*!#@ing holding company
bears help me out here
JG
08 Aug 2013 07:53:42
I'm a Sunderland fan and that was n0wcastl3s strongest team and they are poor! well done rangers for bringing them down to earth even though there excuse was it wouldn't of been right to smash you lot and spoil your party! they pathetic g0rdi3s! have a good season rangers I expect you to be in Scottish division 1 next year!
Newcastle drawing with rangers is a terrible result for Newcastle because rangers are a shambles of a team.
How can any club that hires a nutter like Di Canio as manager slag off anyone else? I expect and hope Sunderland will get relegated next season.
OP, so no promotion then?
Al
08 Aug 2013 07:31:27
If it is true that Walter has been threatened with legal action by Green and his cronies if he spills the beans on exactly what has been going on then it will be seen by Rangers fans as the last act of a desperate regime trying hard to hold onto the last remnants of any credibility.
The share money has probably gone, syphoned off to goodness knows where, and they are now looking for a golden handshake.
Rangers fans will be appalled by the brass neck of these people that they can still claim to be looking after Rangers interests.
They are only after number one and surely everyone can see that now.
And not only are they after number one, their interests are diametrically opposed to our interests.
Been reading various articles on this and it seems the general opinion that Greens attempts to sell his groups shares is his get out clause at a vast profit. The likelyhood is the money raised via the IPO has gone and the audited accounts will prove the vast amounts being racked in by Green's cronies. What does this mean? the club is running out of money and a possible administration event again. Has anyone actually said we have £xxx left, not a word on it!
There is only 6 weeks before the accounts are due, I strongly believe Green will be doing his best to sell those 20 million shares.
Tonight there is a meeting at Ibrox with Mather and Mccoist, I hope the right questions are asked of both Mather and Mccoist and this is fed back to us the long suffering fans.
Troubled times ahead I think. PB
08 Aug 2013 06:33:32
Ed I posted the link to the Rangers Standard article last night but it hasn't got through.
McColl et all do not need to give Green a penny their discussions with shareholders and institutional shareholders suggest those pro board changes have more than 50% of the shares so the proposition at the EGM in September should go through.
So when Green's Directors go Green is no longer effectively in charge as now because the now functional board take fit and proper decisions.
Good news for Ally up to a point as he will not have an enemy on his shoulder but his spend to success will not be allowed to continue.
Long long way back but the first step is to get a board working in the best interests of the Club and the shareholders with no leaks and public bust ups {Ed001's Note - I am sure I put up a link to it? Did you remove the http bit off the beginning of the link? The spam filters assume it is just someone looking for free advertising otherwise and it never reaches me.}
Green, I believe, has the crucial 51% of the shares and a majority on the board will back him. He has been doing this kind of business for years he will have his back covered.
I posted that here too ed and you put it up on the rumours page I think.
@1 I think green only has 9% of rangers remember not one person would have control of rangers
08 Aug 2013 00:47:46
Is it ego or the fact that he does not want to lose the golden egg that makes Green so stubborn about being in charge?
If the coup succeeds, Green will lose his paid job as a "consultant", but he will still own his shares. The shares that he paid 1p per share for. He has offered 20m shares for £14m, that is 70p roughly per share. However the share price is 40p roughly. So he needs 69p profit per share and not 39p per share profit.
However it is clear that McColl is heading the institutions bid to replace the board. According to McColls interview those institutions will put in more investment in the short term for long term gains. However he warns that if the coup does not succeed it is likely that these institutions will decide to cut their losses and may sell the shares which will reduce the share price, therefore the value of the company.
Therefore Greens shares are worth less. Would it not be better for Green to welcome an EGM and let the new board members replace the current ones. That would give investors more confidence and the share price would rise, thus making
Green more money.
So, back to the original question, is it ego. Does he believe that his involvement in his position of consultant where his remit is to deal with shareholders, those same shareholders that McColl claims are unhappy with the way the club is run by his present board. Sounds like an impossible task to me.
Or is it the loss of the golden goose?
You know the loss of his wage for being a consultant, the loss of outrageous bonuses when the team that he regards as the "worst Rangers team ever" earns him £350k.
It was reported that Rangers were losing £1m a month, that was in January, it is now August. The share issue raised £22m. Even if we are lstill losing £1m a month, there should be £14m left plus £10m for season ticket sales. I understand that the close season means no income which will hurt but since January a strip deal has been signed, a sponsor is on board, some big earners have gone. It is reported there is £5m left now. Even taking close season into account there should be £20m, where has £15m gone?
Yes they have bought edmiston house, car park, paid football debts, but that ain't £15m. So is this the golden goose to which I refer?
The herald claims McColl has more than 40% support at present, the fans own 8% I believe, I pray that all those shareholders will back the coup. We need to get rid of Green whether the reason is the over inflated ego or the other reason.
Nice topic! You have missed some external expenditure, and also the large bonuses and over inflated wages to the current board members, including Mather, Stockbridge and other board members. The external expenditure is vast amounts that have been wheeled out of the back door using various companies and friends of both Mather and Stockbridge. Make no mistake mr Stockbridge is driving the external costs using companies, and consultants as cover. The amounts are staggering! I really can't wait for The books to be inspected.
08 Aug 2013 01:23:10
Read an article today by our beloved consultant, where he stated tha Paul Murray could have bought Rangers for £2 when Whyte offered £1. I am getting on but don't think the memory has gone quite yet. I am sure Paul Murray warned very publically that Whyte was no good, had no money, and that he was putting a deal together for £25m where £18m went to Lloyds and £7m for working capital. That was refused bt David Murray and so the shambles began.
Mr Green is a "casual racist"as described in one of today's papers, I don't really know what a casual racist is, but so be it. He has admitted he attempted to dupe Whyte, as if that is a great thing, don't get me wrong I have no problem with Whyte being duped, but do we want somebody that takes so easily to duping people? No we don't thanks.
He says he wouldn't have let Ally sign so many players, I think he has bought two more than have gone, but yet stated there would be £10m war chest available. So he is clearly being economic with the truth, a liar some may call him. He is a self declared loudmouth. No argument with that one. But as well as being a loudmouth he is a loudmouth that doesn't know when to shut up and has no idea of what is acceptable and what is not. Some may call him ignorant.
So we have a racist, ignorant, lying con man running the show even although he is a consultant, not a director.
I think I prefer a group who consist of a billionaire, and an accountant who has an impeccable business reputation. Throw in the fact that they are Rangers fans, there is no choice.
That leaves Paul Murray. Some will point out that he was a director when Murray sold. But I would point out that when he was a director when the debt went from £39m to £18m. He also was very vocal about Whyte and tried to put together a deal that was far better than Whyte's offer. Sir Dave refused it. If he is the weak link, I still prefer the weak link any day of the week.
I think the coup will succeed and we can finally be run properly, that's a novel idea.
Very seldom you get a bloodless coup, Paul.
billyb
And did you think all this when the warning signs about Green were there? Or were you one of the fools conned by his rabble rousing nonsense? You can forget about McColl, he has stated he has no interest in a share increase or working within Ibrox.
Sad to see real fans on other boards saying Green can ONLY make money if rangers succeeds.
Green ran a £240m investment into the ground in the desert, building lego style houses in the sand - if he can do that and walk away still solvent - then he can make money out of rangers failing once more.
We have group of shareholders - buying shares in the open so we see who they are - who want transparency and financial openess. sounds great deal.
Green has removed Malcolm Murray, Smith and is undermining Ally - does this sound like a good person.
Green had oppertunity to make statement on finance - his remit - why talk about racism and other gumf?
Yes agree all we need from Murray is the bottle to clear out the laughing boys from the coaching staff and its a win win for me
2) no I was not fooled by Green. However your comments regarding McColl make it clear that you don't understand the position at all. McColl does not need to put in money to oust Green and the board. Would be helpful if you knew what you were talking about.
07 Aug 2013 23:30:14
Green, Mathers, Stockbridge, et al, will never sack Ally. He's a small jigsaw piece in the cash cow. But they need him thinking he's vulnerable for control purposes.
If Ally is with mcColl, Walter, P Murray, M Murray and blin, he needs to resign. Otherwise he's backing CG and taking his coin and delivering for him.
There's no man on inside play games now, its all cards on the table face up time. Choose your side and step over there. That's what Walters done.
No matter which way you spin it working for green is propping him up and who wants to be there when admin strikes?
What do you all think?
Greens disguise as a lowly consultant was blown the minute he told the interviewer on TV put £14m in an account by Friday and I'll guarantee my consortiums 20milliin shares. Hardly a consultant. The interviewer didn't have the nouse to jump on that.
I agree with everything you have said. Gers fans are sooo apathetic & willing to accept anything they are told. The response last night was typically pathetic. Can you imagine if thos was going on with the east end club? Their fans would have removed the impostors within an hour. Wattie said that gers fans should have the club they deserve. The persistent lack of action (18 months shows that we have just that.
Celt Fan -
Ally needs to stay in and keep eye on what's really happening. in case green brings in 4-5 players (but he takes agent fees etc - or pays huge sandazza 4 year ramp deals)
Fans still repect ally, and ally only needs to get club back to spl.
Fans don't respect Ally.
They should do!
07 Aug 2013 23:24:13
So what's the situation regarding selection on Saturday? Trialists etc? Seems a long time since there has been a football topic on here. How many can we play and who should we play?
Is it not 2. LAW and Daly?
We can play 2 trialists in the league 3 times until September 1st as long as they were registered with a scottish club last season, so on Saturday it'll be between law, Daly, Clark and Bell.
Andy
I would play BELL & Daly try get off to a winning start in the league.
Bell
Mcausland Jig Gasparotto Wallace
Aird McLeod Black McKay
Temps
Daly
but that will be nowhere near the team it will be law instead of Bell & Gaspa Aird & McKay won't start no doubt.
Larky Bear
It would be daly and clark for me, get goals win games,
we could have won two games with the amount of chances we missed against forfar, especially little, that one he ballooned from 6yds was a shocker
JG
07 Aug 2013 22:52:43
thinkin that a few teams will be just dying to get the eastenders in Fridays draw after tonights display. not one of those two should really be in the elite group stages. ill cut some slack for the pitch as it should be against the rules to play in artificial surface at this level. but even at that. pathetic at best comes to mind. deecee
Dont be worrying yourself about the Champions league draw. Enjoy the ramsdens though eh.
But I thought you were pleased for Scottish teams progressing in Europe Deecee, you made a big song and dance about congratulating St Johnstone, aren't we afforded the same congratulations?
That being the same St Johnstone who have won more games in Europe in 2 rounds than Rangers have in the past 5 seasons.
Gaz
Seriously you posted this after Celtic just negotiated another round of the champions league qualifiers and gauranteed european football till xmas. And your cup contribution was a hiding at forfar away and stop embarrassing yersel
Rangobango
Playing really poorly and still knocking out the champions of sweden will do just fine. Playing on an awful plastic surface against a team half way through their season was the obstacle, job done.
Credit where its due. They still are in the next round. Deserved or not. Sure they won't care.
@3 how have you's guaranteed cl football till Xmas still got another 2 games before the groups are even drawn after below par performances (compared to last season) in the games so far a wouldn't be so sure also a weaker squad
Guaranteed European football till Christmas for the following reasons
Win- champions league group stage
Lose- Europa league group stage
08 Aug 2013 16:03:37
@7 read post 3 again he says guaranteed European football until Christmas which is true as even if celtic get put out in the next round they enter the Europa league
@7 a massive difference in the money you's can earn