Rangers Rumours Archive May 16 2012

 

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16 May 2012 23:17:31
Simply put the CVA is the only and best option for the creditors to get any kind of return. Let me explain why the creditors would get very little if anything via the sale of assets as a result of the liquidation scenario.
Firstly, if rangers were liquidated the player’s contracts would be considered null and void meaning every member of the playing staff would be free to walk away without a transfer fee having to be paid, therefore the creditors would not receive a single penny from the sale of players. The next two most valuable assets at the club currently owns are Ibrox and Murray Park……I don’t know about you but I can’t think of many organisations (football clubs included) who would be interested or have a need to buy a 55000 seater stadium in Glasgow not to mention a state of the art training complex, can you?
FYI- the land that ibrox sits on including the car park, is valued at £1.1m whilst the land that Murray Park sits on is valued at £740k therefore even if the administrators could sell the land that both ibrox and mp to a developer the creditors could only see a maximum of £2.2m from Ibrox and MP…….im sure you will agree this is substantially less than the £8.5m+ that the CVA option will offer?
Ps even if a developer did buy the land at ibrox then they have a problem, the main stand at ibrox is a listed building and cannot be knocked down!
In summary the creditors will see very little if anything from the liquidation of rangers, it is therefore in their interests for rangers to survive.

Believable25 Unbelievable44

This is incredible, have you no shame or brains!!
this is only the start of it.
i read someone say this is like a car crash, i disagree, much worse.
the 2 contract issue will sink rfc for ever.
no spl, no 3rd division.
even a newco will not have the criteria for entry into the 3rd division.
the only point you make which i agree is the value of assets craig whyte holds, not rfc(ia).
the stadium is worth zero really as it would cost countless millions to develop it into anything other than football arena.
however, as a recent creditor victim of a liquidated company myself, it matters not 1 jot what the perceived value is...

it still gets confiscated.

them there's the rules fella...

please wake & acknowledge this whole process has been a smokescreen for the bears.

the absolute, cold reality is rfc were doomed the second the bears abandoned the shares issue about 5yrs ago when murray was binned for the better part of 49million.

you had your chance & the bears collectively blew it...

rfc rip 2012

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Something is better than nothing?

For the major creditors (HMRC & Ticketus) showing that they are willing to push for liquidation will send out a clear message to other teams/companies and help ensure they get their money in future

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Oh yeah here we go that last post started kind of sensible then turned into the usual ugly bitter rubbish were used to hearing now. Go away . Have you no brains let alone shame.

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Wrong! In liquidation the players are sold (all of them) as part of the process. Creditors need to insist on all of them going.
Ticketus will want to own Murray Park.

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This decision seems to be cut of your nose to spite your face .the best way to get your money back is to be very competative so why would you then punish rangers so that they will fail ?? it would be better for all including the other teams in scotland and the premier division if rangers could play their way out of debt. just how many other teams will go to the wall if rangers fans ensure that no money comes from rangers supporters away from home ? then what would the stupid sfa decision do ?? send all the clubs down the slippery path of being insolvent ??
and then what would celtic do in europe if they dont get revenue they will lose big time too
its time that all clubs work together to stop this happening
start making proper rules and stick with them so that from now on everyone is treated the same and this applys to all rules ie 10000 seated stadiums in premier division and stop teams with small grounds and let them use the money they save to fund good players to fund a premier team and then rely on sharing grounds !!!! and the list goes on about poor sfa officials

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Get your facts right Ibroke's capacity is not 55,000 it's 50,000 !!!

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I haves radical idea. Why doesn't the government propose a tax increase of say 0.5% with the proceeds going to pay off our debts - the SPL needs a competitive Rangers or other clubs may go bust too

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The other thing that worries me is that while some may think it is better to accept pennies in the pound rather than nothing this is not strictly true for HMRC strategy.

If they accept pennies in the pund from us that opens the way for everyone to offer them pennies in the pound. As such I could see them happily take the hit with us to not leave themselves open to others.

That is the bigger picture.

Big G.

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Good original post, 2 million less demolition costs doesn't leave much to the creditors.

Some fail to understand the value of the assets are connected to the commercial viability of the football club that buys them. Due to the previous business model and the financial consequences of sanctions, serious investment is required to make Rangers a commercially viable enterprise. It is the scale of this investment that reduces the value of the assets. For example, Bill Miller considered 20 million for the assets and 30 million restructuring investment too much for a marginally profitable football club. The risks and costs outweighed the rewards for success and the price of failure.

Look at Celics profitability without a decent European run or a big transfer sale, its a marginally profitable business.
Celtic is a well run, with a bigger turnover, with no sanctions and it may or may not be worth 50 million.

Therefore anyone who suggests Rangers assets are worth more than 20 million is living in cloud cuckoo land. There is no point in paying 50 million for the assets and another 30 million to make it a profitable business in 3 years, Rangers will never in a month of Sundays be worth 80 million.
SDM valued Rangers at the size of his overdraft( 18 million) plus debenture( 7 million) and catering ( 1 million) secured liabilities, Rangers was worth approx 26 million without sanctions or loss of player assets.

A CVA delivers a return to creditors of approx 20 million, and that is all it is worth in its current state.

Anorak.

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Just stating fact therefore dont see why I should show shame??

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Given that the accounts value Rangers assets at over £100 millions (mainly ground and training area not players) and that is the basis on which they lent to Rangers I'm waiting on the creitors to sue Rangers auditors should the club try to claim the assets are actually only worth a million or two.

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Wishful thinking Timmy...
Rangers Football Club PLC own both Ibrox & Murray Park. A company ultimately owned by Craig Whyte owns 85% of the shares in RFC PLC. There is the issue of the £18M floating charge - which is security on all of RFC PLC's assets.

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I don't think you are right about contracts. Players can be sold before any payout is calculated. If your calculations are correct then players will need to fetch above £6m in an auction (effectively). In practice, though, contracts will be bought by newco.

Creditors will need to take a view on whether £6m is good money for these players or not.

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16 May 2012 23:13:22
Appeal rejected ....... what next? Newco? take the year long embargo? do we take it to European courts citing restrictive employment? ....... not good news, I say lets liquidate and move to Div 3 let the SPL drown in its own greed, apparently they dont need us

Believable51 Unbelievable21

I presume the away fans will not travel to away games.............doomsday scenario has happened

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I don't think taking it to European courts would help.

Look what happened to Sion. They basically made their situation worse by seeking legal action.

TTG

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What part of this is not the sfa's making are some people not getting? If you can't do the time etc... Mibbe we should all just have said "it's ok guys, no harm done. Carry on as normal, what's £134m between friends eh"

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Why is "The spl need us" a valid excuse for breaking the law.

St Mikey

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You cant go to any other court except the arbitration for sport check the rules any attempt to go to outside courts like sion will result in sanction.

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Apparently your right. We dont need you. Get it into that thick skull of yours. The SPL has been declining for a number of years, oh yeah thats right, Rangers have been in it. Maybe it might improve when you go away and rot in the lower leagues. Bye ze bye now!

Joeshmo1888

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Must be dark outside, the septic mob have appeared, come to feast on our misery?

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Rangers football club brought this upon itself, so stop blaming every other person bar them MR JARDINE

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SPL has ust proved it has no porting integrity whatsoever with its latest league rigging scheme good luck trying to get a tv deal for a rigged league FIFA SHOULD BE INVESTIGATING AND BANNING OR NATIONAL TEAM FROM ALL COMPETITIONS

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Go on Hectors go to civil or european court.... Lose every point you win in the early part of the season, as hapened with Sion.... Get a further ban in Europe.... Have more sanctions taken against you.

Sound a great route to be taking.

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Why not try getting into the English lower league then work up from there. Let sfa crumble.

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Agree time to cut our losses and go to div3 if accepted! Let them see what it would be like without rangers. I suspect if we do go down this road suddenly things will start getting better and the SFA will suddenly want to help and keep us in the SPL. Start again and come back stronger WATP

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The tranfer embargo is not an appropriate punishment and it is counter productive, it prevents Rangers from restructuring and this affects the comercial viablity of the company.

Simply put, there is no point in imposing sanctions, when the sanctions will put Rangers right back into administration.

In my opinion Rangers should be banned from Europe for another two years with no domestic penalties. Let the club get off its knees or we will be right back to square one.

Anorak.

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I am a dundee fan , cant belive how bad it
has gone at rangers , at dundee we were punished it was sore . we came out fighting. you are a big fish and can do the same. i think you will loss a lot of stars , but a young team can be good in the long run. i do think starting over is your best bet. i also think the st. mirrens , hibs . kilmarnock and scumdee united will sufer. i see europe getting worse , all out before august. scotland internationals will all come from epl , championship. all the best we do need both old firm teams , but we also need challengers from aberdeen , edinburgh , dundee and the rest.

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Oh dear to the last post about integrity,you do realise Rangers are bumping everyone in sight,so the last people to comment on dignity and integrity are the boys in blue,if you dry your eyes for long enough you will realise you have got off very lightly

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I wish Rangers fans would stop and think what going into Div 3-2-1 would do to a business model such as Rangers or Celtic.

It simply would not work, these two clubs are superstores and cannot downsize to a corner shop for 3 years and pay the same bills. A drop in ticket prices and attendances would be inevitable, no Sky money and little sponsorship. Its a recipe for extinction.

Anorak. {Ed001's Note - that only applies if Rangers still own Murray Park and Ibrox, if not there would be no real issue with them dropping down the divisions.}

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This wasn't the SPL. In fact if you look closely at the panel they were far from the SPL.

Forget the European courts. UEFA have strong views about that and you are in enough mess as things are.

When you do wrong you are punished. Simples.

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I have symathy for real Rangers fans. fans who know you have done wrong and need to pay the ferryman and move on. most people on this rumours site now are driving me bonkers though with their it was everyone's fault but us, rigged leagues, no Tv deal, SPl drowing in it;'s greed? and don't start on court action against the SFA or you will be put out of existence. To the OP grow a pair mate. you are like a spoiled child not geting his own way.

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Division 3? stuff the spl and lets move tyo english lower leagues and work our way up, let the spl rot

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16 May 2012 23:09:46
How many punishments must we take for two men's disgraceful actions. No Europe, no players, no nothing. I think this is a joke.

I say let's keep the players we have even if it means spending all money on transfers going to existing players.

Let them kick us when we are down, but let's all get together and am sure that if we can keep our team it will be good enough to beat whats out there.

That would really sicken them all.

I must say that all the talk of war chests etc did us no favours at all , very badly timed indeed.

As usual it is the fans that suffer the most and we have done nothing wrong.

Believable12 Unbelievable38

Livi threaten the SFA with a £1.2million court case if the SFA backdown over Rangers. The SFA no doubt had that in the back of their minds when they made this decision tonight.

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I reckon Green knew that the appeal was likely to fail, so decided to go along with the warchest claims knowing that he and his consortium would not be tested on it but would have a readymade excuse.

Taking us bears for mugs. No way was there ever gonna be a warchest courtesy of Craig Whyte Mark 2.

BB

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"How many punishments must we take for two men's disgraceful actions. No Europe, no players, no nothing. I think this is a joke."

Hmmm.... tell you what, pay back the £134m your club owes instead of writing this debt off through insolvency, THEN hand back the titles you won with financial doping (through running up debts you couldn't pay), and we'll all look again at how harsh these punishments really are!

Rangers are getting off seriously light here: As the panel said the only more serious offence they could have been faced with was match fixing. They could have removed the licence altogether, and if Whyte was still in the frame, they almost certainly would have.

The decision was made by independent QC and has now been ratified by a top judge. It is utterly water tight.

Take your medicine bears and stop bleating like stuck sheep!

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I don't get all this "we fans have done nothing wrong, why are we being made to suffer" stuff. So the club shouldn't be punished because they've got fans who are upset.
Al

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Poster 3. I am a Rangers fan and I am appalled at the goings on at my club. Yes we should take our medicine and, although technically the maximum fine WITHIN the current rules is £100,000, I have no problem with the decision overall given the gravity of the offences. I only have an issue with the rules being made up as we go along, just like they will be for a newco if we end up going down that route. The SPL should have had rules in place before now, they have had plenty of warnings in the past with other clubs entering administration.

However, I can't agree with the 'creative writing' section of your post. We went into administration in February 2012. That is when we officially could not pay our bills and not before. Did we win the title this year and I missed it? That would be the only title we would currently have to hand back. Prior to this year the debt was reduced, mainly by Lloyds, and was perfectly manageable and equatable with Celtic's.

The vast majority of clubs operate whilst owing, to us, what seems like vast sums of money. Manchester United, for example, are half a billion pounds in debt (which is a vast sum of money!). If they went into admin tomorrow how many titles would you take back off of them for operating outwith their financial means? The answer would be none. The level of debt only becomes a problem when you can't pay it back. Look at the level of debt at your own club if you don't believe me, £16m or so if memory serves. Are you handing the title back if you happen to have made a loss this year and somehow end up in admin in a few years time? Didn't think so. That part of your post is nonsensical at best.

Currently Rangers debt is around £55m not £134m. Morally I agree we should pay it all back but businesses don't operate on morals unfortunately. New owners of financially ailing companies do this every day of the week in the business world and why should they, who have had no involvement in the accruing of it, be liable for the debts accrued by previous owners. It does not happen. Chase Murray and Whyte, hell, I will give you a hand, but you can't blame the new guys for doing what every other businessman in their situation would do. Start afresh and wipe the slate clean financially.

The EBT case has still to be decided and there is no certainty that it will go against us either, as HMRC have tried the same thing with five previous football clubs and lost every single one of them. However, IF we are subsequently PROVEN to have been ILLEGALLY using EBT's and therefore operating with dual contracts outwith the laws of the game then yes, the titles from 2000 till now should be wiped from the record books in my opinion and we should receive additional sanctions. Surprise, surprise, though - that verdict isn't in yet and isn't set in stone either and there are currently no rules in place if it does happen. That is what is annoying most decent Rangers fans - we don't want to escape punishment, all we want is it to be a fair one within the rules laid down by the governing bodies that ALL clubs have to abide by.

Wait until all the verdicts are in before you get creative with numbers and titles. Only then will we know how much medicine we really have to take. It might be a bucketload, or we might already have taken all we have to.

Brian {Ed025's Note - great post that brian...

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Very much doubt 2 men were responsible, rangers will have people who dealt with players pay and knew the tax wasn't forwarded to hmrc, the panel have bent over backwards to keep you in the spl, the 12 month transfer ban is better than been booted out and by the way england won't accept either of the olf firm, that is a pipe dream that will never happen

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1) I note you say " 2 men's disgraceful actions". Did SDM bring you all the cups and top name players as an individual because it seems supporters are happy to associate the good times with Rangers but the wrong doing with individuals. If Whyte had won the league this year but the club still ended up in administration would the league have been won by Rangers but the administration be caused by the individual.

Rangers have been a mess financially for years, all because SDM gave the fans what they crave. When Hugh Adam criticised this way of running th e club fans tagged him as a liar or a traitor. A man who with his loyalty and hard work helped build the club he loved. It seems that to criticise your own club is unthinkable and its this blind loyalty that Rangers are now in this sorry mess.

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IF we can keep the players we have and promote the best of our young players I personally think we can still chalenge for the league! didn't see a massive gulf between us and Celtic this season in fact on the contrary ! This might actually help us long term GIVE YOUTH A CHANCE ! SG

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And once the duel contracts are proved they will be regarded as trying to gain an advantage over you're opponents by playing players illegally, in effect this could be deemed as match fixing...oh dear i honestly fear the worst for you guys, its richly deserved though. tic tok tic tok

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The fans were happy enough to ernjoy winning trophies its payback
time for all the cheating

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How many punishments?

Each crime you commit you get punished, administration -10pts, failing to publish your accounts and run a proper football company UEFA ban , failing to control Whyte and breaking 7 rules transfer embargo.

If you think you're being kicked while your down look away cause there's worse to come, fraud, phone tapping, dual contracts all will carry heavy penalties

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Funny how Murray is a disgrace now he was a god when he was giving it his fiver and tenner bulls**t , now we know how he managed it , debt, debt and more debt

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How many punishments must we take for two men's disgraceful actions. No Europe, no players, no nothing. I think this is a joke."

Hmmm.... tell you what, pay back the £134m your club owes instead of writing this debt off through insolvency,

We DONT owe £134m..... we POTENTIALLY owe something in that region......If you look at it not through your green tinted glasses Craig Sh1te potentially owes £27m to Ticketus,(debt down to £107m)...we may not lose the BTC £90m (debt down to £17m)...so if Craig Sh1te had paid the PAYE (alledgedly £13m) that all the players thought was being paid, as it was coming off their wage every month, we would only have a debt of £4m, managable in anyones book...remember we cut the debt to LLoyds from £34m to £18m in 18 months

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Fans were happy enough to enjoy the benefits that breaking the rules brought them, but don't want to accept the punishment.

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Rangers have no choice but to get rid of the high earners, they simply cannot afford them. It looks like Rangers will have a weak squad for a season and possibly a 2-3 year ban from Europe. If the fans desert their club in sufficient numbers then they will be back in administration.

Anorak.

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"As usual it is the fans that suffer the most and we have done nothing wrong."

Have you never heard of the legal principle of "collective responsibility" ? Not since the Nuremburg trials has their been so much denying of wrong doing. Get real Rangers fans for decades you have basked in the "glory" of your leaders wrong doing, now you want to blame them entirely and walk away unpunished ? Sadly it doesn't work like that. Your marching up etc and all the nonsense spouted by so called fans leaders is simply making you all look deluded. Look inwards and find the culprits and take your anger there. Why not march to Sir David Murray's offices ? or to any of the then board, including John Grieg etc they all must have known what was going on. But with typical Rangers arrogance you just felt you were above the law and rules in life. Get over it.

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This wasn't all down to the actions of 2 men, it was down to the actions of 2 seperate board of directors, so all this is was his fault and his fault doesn't cut it. A board of directors make the decisions and yours decided it was better to make themselves rich than be good custodians of your club. So it is not all down to Craig whyte or David Murray, look at the bigger picture for a change!

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I wish rangers fans would drop the kick us while we are down line. In the early 90s ally mccoist commented on celtics plight.... "i certainly can't say i am sad about what is happening over there" it's the nature of football rivalry. Even "institutions" can be rotten to the core. Scottish football will only be better off with rangers if they play by the rules like everyone else.
A very p****d off Killie fan.

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16 May 2012 23:07:15
Rangers lose appeal against fine and 12 month transfer embargo.

GovanFR

Believable20 Unbelievable6

16 May 2012 23:06:54
Rangers have lost the sfa appeal.

All that does is hand a poor Celtic side the league next season on a plate.

What joke Scottish football has become a 2 horse race for the spl has now just become a one horse race.

Sure sky will be falling over themselves to pay £80m for a rubbish non competitive league now.

Believable20 Unbelievable20

It wasnt poor when celtic were finishing fourth and you were skooshing it was it?

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Didn't Celtic get to a UEFA cup final on a BBC Tv contract.......discuss....

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1) Is you feel Scottish Football has becamea joke because it is now a one horse race then you know who to blame. It is SDM and all the directors during his reign and CW when he took over. Instead of blaming every other scottish club Rangers fans need to accept their club is to blame.

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Were you concerned about the competitiveness of the league when you were winning 9 in a row?

For years Murray's dodgy tax practices and wreckless spending ensured that Rangers could not be challenged by anyone in Scotland. What you are getting now is reaping what you sow. Take the blinkeres off, have a think about it and take your medicine, fans of every other club in Scotland had it enough.

CBP

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Its about time clubs stopped worrying about SKY, f**k them, football belongs to the fans, without us the game is dead, clubs who are thinking of voting Rangers back into the SPL should take note of this...

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They did but let's see how long they would prosper without Rangers, 1 or 2 years tops. The crowds will dwindle, no one will sign maybe then you can move to the Irish League !

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It is a one horse race next year because of what rangers have done IE dragged Scottish football into and through the gutter. rangers are a disgrace and should count themselves lucky they were not thrown out the league. I hope they do appeal the appeal because UEFA wiil hammer them - they might insist they are thrown out when they see what this club has been up to . I have no doubt there will be people going to jail over this . If you think you have been punished too hard so far , you ain`t seen nothin yet !

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16 May 2012 23:02:39
Appeal rejected, what a disgrace. They are clearly trying to stick the knife in. They want our money but will not let us be competitive. We must now ensure that the current players are kept, the money has to go their way.

I think this is an absolute disgrace, and could easily be considered a restriction of trade.

It is clear that this was the actions of one man, the charlatan.
I hope his next s**t is a hedgehog.

Believable12 Unbelievable23

Lets see how green responds.......this will be telling

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All these violent phrases like 'stick the knife in' 'kick us when we are down' is complete nonsense the judgment was fair proper rules were followed an appeal was allowed and a second panel agreed with the first. Rules were breached punishment is needed. The more embarrassing news that will come out next week must be punished as well.
DB77

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You should think yourselfs lucky yous were getting booted oot of scottish footbal....rangers are to blame and them only well there a couple of youngsters at third lanark looking for a game.....

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Very mature post, you need to grow up and start realising rangers need to be punished, they already owe so many teams money from players you have but not paid for, why should they allow rangers to do it to more teams

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Hows it a disgrace. Have you read theyre statement? It backs up what the media have been saying that they could have expelled you from the game or suspended your spl license. either of which would have got you an automatic 12 month transfer embargo anyways. Get aluko and the rest on new deals. take your medicine and come back sronger the season after. Its not the end of the world and it is not the injustice your suggesting it is.

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Oh poor wee rino!!!! Lol ha ha ha ha

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The charlatan just happened to be the owner of rangers fc at the time....tell me which punishment would be fair?

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Did you read the SFA report by the eminent lawlord ? You were close to being booted out the SFA. I despair of you people...you cheat and then expect to get away with it. Even your lawyer couldnt defend you tonight.

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This is only the beginning, next it will be punishment for 2 contracts then what will UEFA do to you. Its not looking good Bears. has this program about Murray thrown up something else and they know about it.

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We're screwed, simple as that. Players will now leave and we can't stop them, the club/players should refuse to co-operate or make things as difficult as possible for the SFA in future whenever they require our assistance.

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How is it a disgrace, you should find yourselves lucky that you are still in the league. You have cheated Scottish football for years and it's about time that you get punished. The disgrace is of the talk of boycotting games and making things as difficult for the sfa, you are trying to punish other teams for your crimes, its not the sfa, the taxman, Celtic or anyone else's fault you lot are in this position, its about time rangers stood up and take the blame.

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The original poster here, it is a disgrace and they are putting the boot in. Just one of you Celtic fans tell me why the SFA consider themselves the body to punish rangers for not paying tax. That is HMRC job, not SFA. Before you bring out the excuse that we owe clubs money, well that is what happens in business, companies get let down every day of the week by ppl going into admin. but we are different, why?
You say we have to be punished and that is ok, but punish us within the rules. The max fine applicable was £100k, we get fined £160k and transfer embargo. They are making the rules up as they go along.
It will be same with SPL vote , there are no rules in place how to deal with this situation, but they will make them up as they go along.
If the rules say div 3 then fine, but they don't, so they will come up with some rubbish that also its them, they want our money but don't want us to compete.
How can you break a rule when there are no rules.
The SFA charge is bringing the game into disrepute, the only ones in disrepute is us, how have we brought the game into disrepute?
The main gripe is that the governors are just applying whatever sanctions suit them, it is a bit like having a pint then the next day it is made illegal and you get charged for having a drink before that date. It is pathetic that the SFA are treating a member club like this. In all associations, clubs, unions they look after their members when in trouble.
Motherwell did exactly the same as us, their punishment - nothing. No points deduction, no fine, no embargo, here haw. How do you justify one rule for one and different rules for another.
Once again I ask when did SFA become enforcers for HMRC?
That's why it is a disgrace, simple

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To the OP. I'll think you'll find that other associations don't look after their members when they are in trouble if they have broken the rules. Do you not watch the news, listen to the radio, read a paper? Do a search on the internet and see what has recently happened in Switzerland.
As for being HMRC enforcers, nonsense. The punishments, like all punishments, are a deterent to ensure rules or laws are not broken.
You will also find that the £160k fine is not actually a single fine. Of hand I think it is two £50ks and a £60k for more than one breach of more than one rule.
Al

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To the OP -
It's a disgrace a member club (RFC) have treated it's fellow members the way you have.
Unpaid transfers, unpaid gate money, and using the taxpayers money to fund the clubs ongoing commitments.
Thats without bringing in the non football creditors.
Just wait till the result of the BTC appeal comes in, years of illegally run EBT's (75 players over 10 years is the oft quoted figures).
Never mind the SFA and SPL, UEFA will quite rightly crucify you.
And no, I'm not a Celtic fan, my 'diddy' team went belly up many years ago.
Just an interested football follower.

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You idiot . . .
Members of associations are usually expected to conduct themselves in appropriate manner.
Rangers haven't done this, falling significantly and unprecedentely below what is expected. The punishment is inline with the crime.
Next charge , next punishment please.

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To poster 10 who refers to making things difficult for the SFA, does this mean you are going to boycott the Scottish Cup, and have players suspended for 5 days for failing to release them for international duty?

Why should Rangers be above the rules and exempt from punishment?

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Motherwell went into administration due to cash flow problems i.e. John Boyle withdrawing funding. They off loaded players within days of going into administration. They did not owe money to other clubs, did not owe money HMRC, and payed all National Insurance, PAYE and VAT. They did not hire players they could not afford, to win titles.
The two situations are completely different.

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Nice to see some top ranting from the Gers in orange tinted glasses. Not one Rangers supporter or the administrator or employee or media have suggested any alterntive, better punishment for the Gers. Motherwell didn't deilberately avoid paying tax and NI. Gretna went bust, Livingston got demoted to start again in Division 3. I hope Rangers challenge the Appeal Panels decision in a European Arena.....it might be their only access to Europe for a while and they might find the grass isn't greener! Ha ha

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Go and lie down bear i know your head is so sore but everything you say it reflects your football club those who build there house on sand in the days that house will fall and thats the big hoose those who build on solid ground that house (ie)celtic..will stand the forces of nature...now friend except your wrong doing and the rest come and say sorry for everything your club has done to the rest of scottish football and beyond...just think yourself lucky you might and i say might have a club to support wherever that may be...even if it is on xbox.....

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I don't agree with the emargo but the original poster is missing the point. It is not that CW's improper governance was illegal, the company's actions affect the credit worthiness and financial reputation of the association it is a member of.

The SFA is in effect a commercial trading partner within UEFA and FIFA, Rangers have damaged the financial integrity of the SFA.

Rangers fans are like the Greeks, they feel they should not suffer for the improper governance of their government, but they were the biggest beneficaries of their actions.
Going down to Div 3 and leaving the SPL would be as disastrous as the Greeks leaving the Eurozone.

Anorak. {Ed001's Note - hmmm except that the only people who believe Greece leaving the Eurozone would be a disaster, are the same 'experts' that never foresaw the recession coming. Whereas the experts that saw it coming will tell you that Greece's best hope comes from leaving the Eurozone and recovering on their own terms. But then what kind of an imbecile thinks that the way to get out of a recession is by not spending like the Eurozone is telling people??? Complete lunacy.}

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16 May 2012 23:01:40
Sfa appeal been rejected TB

Believable12 Unbelievable3

16 May 2012 23:00:40
Transfer embargo to stand.source ssn
Mark

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16 May 2012 20:50:57
Right bears, who thinks that we will get a positive outcome from today's appeal?

If the outcome is in our favour and keeping in mind the financial constraints we will be under....what signings would be an improvement to the squad and at the same time realistic??

Believable7 Unbelievable23

I wouldn't hold my breath. I wouldn't be surprised if the the transfer embargo is extended and the fine increased.

All they Celtic chappies will be e-mailing every member of staff the SFA, as we speak, demanding that further, more severe, punishments are handed down to the Gers.

Remember, the rules are being changed purely because it's the Gers in this situation. So, as i said, don't hold your breath.

TTG

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I sure hope so but dont see it happening,we pwere probably lucky to get so little punishment at the original hearing,the one thing I am worried about is that they could in fact increase the sentence,we dont want that.I pray this is the start of some good news

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I think the fine will be increased, but the transfer embargo will be rescinded. The panel will try to appear tough on financial mismanagement in the SPL without causing grievous harm to Rangers. A fudge in other words.
Liah Smit

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TTG nothing to do with Celtic, Rangers broke the rules , the ultimate sanction could have been exclusion from the league , embargo ain't so bad as Rangers need to balance the books pay off debts then rebuild

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Liquidation it is then if we want to sign new players

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APPEAL REJECTED

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Original judgement showed that rangers defence was.... It was all Whyte's fault!

But thier lawyer agreed that was indefensible in law ... The most expensive lawyer and no defence for the charges

What could rangers defence have been this time.... It was too harsh a punishment, we innocent and rumours of worse crimes than match fixing are false.....

There are no cases they can bring up to show it too harsh, .....

Whyte sunk rangers by not appearing....

Which was contempt.

So more expensive lawyers and admin fees , to defend the indefensible

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Just on BBC web site that appeal has been lost. Further news to follow.

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Unfortunately they havnt budged on this. Just reported on BBC. Fine and Embargo remain.

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Could rangers sign any player on a part time basis like the lower division teams?

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Rangers can't even sign part time players. The restriction is on registering players with the SFA. Part time players would still have to be registered.
Al

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16 May 2012 18:39:50
Ed I've posted before on here but u never posted it up but never worry! Do u no if there is any news about the transfer embargo today if u could in lighten me many thanks tubz ni {Ed014's Note - Nothing has been reported yet.Sorry.

Believable2 Unbelievable6

Well they say no news is good news so fingers crossed! Cheers Ed watp

Tubz ni

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There will be no decision made tonight, it may take several days. However I would bring your attention to the fact that sporting integrity cannot be bought,ergo i will assume that the embrago will stay and the fine reduced to 100k, at which point Mr Green will invoke the get out clause and walk away

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16 May 2012 17:45:46
could someone remind when that bbc documentry regarding rangers and david murray aires ?

ryanrfc

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23rd of may

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Cheers mate

ryanrfc

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Wed 23 May 20:00

BBC One in Northern Ireland & Scotland

Programme will show secret emails & letters and contains revelations about the double contracts from what I hear.

David Murray supposedly launching legal action to stop it being shown.

This is apparently going to be more explosive than the Craig Whyte doc. Do not miss!

BB

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Previous poster has given the wrong date it's on BBC1 Scotland 8pm Wednesday 23rd May (sky page 971) should be enlightning & entertaining lets hope they name & shame ALL the guilty parties!

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It's called Rangers - The Men Who Sold The Jerseys.

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16 May 2012 12:31:17
I for one im sick to the back teeth of rangers fans finding fault with anyone and anything related to taking Rangers forward
Can we just not be glad that someone has stood up brought together a group of investors and is seeking a way to keep our club alive a put a plan in place for the future??
Lets just take a step back before we dive in with acqusations of ulterior motives and character assisinations of people who may just be able to help us!!

Believable49 Unbelievable32

I think you shoud read the following

www.heraldscotland.com/.../concerns-raised-over-new-bidder.17574...

In particular the part of the article which says he has not declared a company description ! Be warned.

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Exactly mate. We are strong as a group so lets keep it that way. Any investor is key to keeping our great club alive so welcome them into our world because WATP

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I agree 100% with the OP.
There appears to be something sinister in the air every time the press do not get their preferred bidders in... namely the Blue Tights.
The press court them as they always conduct their business through the media which accords media/journalists a degree of control.
Pity they could`nt come up with a credible offer when the chips were down.
They press hated Fergus McCann as well as he preferred to do his business quietly and was`nt box office.
The tic support did`nt take to him at the start but he turned them round big time.
Get behind the new owners.

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I thank you for your concern but bearing in mind the age of that article and the fact news had just broken of the interest and subsequent agreement with D and P i would brand that article speculative

Im certainly not saying that Mr Green and co are the perfect fit for Rangers but right now they have come forward so im prepared to be open minded and wait to see how their plans work out

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OP. Keep your head in the sand mate it will be all okay. Come up when the dust has settled and the flames have gone out.

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Once bitten twice shy.

Its OK to hope for the best but we have to prepare for the worst. Most importantly we have to ask the why question.

Why are Green and friends targeting us & who are the members of his consortium?

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You do have a point however you have to understand that we are very vulnerable right now as we were this time last year.

Personally I would be amazed if Green has anything other than liquidation planned for us and as such I am suspicious of his need for sound bites to the contrary. However I do concede that he probably has to say what he is saying in order to try and get a CVA for next to nothing but I doubt he really believes this will work.

Big G.

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We need to give them a chance.D&F must have spoke to creditors to know they need 8.5million for a bid cant see them just making a figure up. but at the same time how can they do a cva before we know the outcome of the big taxcase if we ever hear the outcome. or maybe D&F know they will win the case against C&B law firm and put that into the pot with the 8.5 million?

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What the same fans that didnt like Whyte from the very start shouted about it and ended up losing everything the supported. Do you blame them for being suspicious. Think you need to take a step back in time look at exactly what past 10 years + and see why fans are suspicious. The turnover rangers had yet they couldnt bay there debts and tax bills. and you wonder why ppl jump on whomever trys to take over the running. Only thing Rangers have of any value is land, not the stadium but the land thats built on. i think they have every right to be suspicious.

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I'm sorry but the way this circus has rolled can you blame the fans for their scepticism? They have been promised so many times, let down each time so the majority see this as it is right now. Another load of waffle with more doubt than concrete facts.
As a Tic supporter I feel sorry for the real fans who are crying out for transparency and only see Dumb and Dumber making more money by dragging this out.

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Everybody has to wait til 6th June d-day LOL and then 6th July til the CVA is in place and agreed before we can judge the consortium, once the CVA is in place then we can see where they will take the team and the business.

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I couldn't agree more. At the same time you will probably find that it isn't always Rangers supporters making those comments.

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After what we have been through i'm sure MR Green will understand we have trust issues. One thing has been bothering me since MR Green said it, and that is that if the club ends up NEWCO some of his consortium are pulling out. Firstly you would think a NEWCO would be right up their street, so why pull out ?. Utter tosh, my own opinion is MR Green will go NEWCO then say all these people have pulled out the consortium, and we will never find out who they are because they dont exist, and when named it will probably just be the guy's that we already know about plus MR Green. Hope i'm wrong but very worried..Catweazle-talkingbone.

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I for one am prepared to give Mr Green a chance. I find it reassuring that Ally believes in what he is trying to do for the club.I just hope we win the appeal against the embargo, as i firmly believe , like Ally that we are to big a club to be delt wit in this way.

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Dont you think the fans are entitled to be a tad sceptical after everything has happened at the club,im aware the guy green doesnt have to confirm who the other bavkers andplayers are but dont you think a little bit of transparency is the least we could expect.do they have something tomhide?possibly not.do we deseorvethis in my opinion no.

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---I find it reassuring that Ally believes in what he is trying to do for the club

Love Ally to bits pal but don't forget, only weeks before administration he was saying how he had a great working relationship with Craig Whyte.

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Sometimes the nicest guy's can be too trustworthy, I think Ally's a bit like that. Tie him to a chair Ally and shine a torch in his eye's...Catweazle-talkingbone.

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16 May 2012 09:55:28
I've had a couple of texts today saying that Charles Green intends to hold talks with Brian Kennedy to get him on board to gather the trust factor from the fans.

CC

Believable12 Unbelievable52

So thats now twenty one investors! Has green put in any cash?.........green jhedi

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Give me ur number and i will send u a couple of texts saying that Bill Gates is coming on board too.....do u think that will make my texts True or False.....get a grip

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I would doubt that very much mate, simply because Green has stated that Kennedy thinks he's Mel Gibson and thinks he's a bit of a would be film star....can't see it happening.

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Nah uv just made that up. Grow up and get a life.

Drew

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You got to be kidding! Kennedy was doing this for ego boosting! and he hated the fact Green stole the lime light! Hence why he tore into Duff and Duffer with the whole blood on their hands rubbish! If he was going to with Green he wouldn’t of thrown the last of his toys out the pram

Jon S

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Sounds like the usual mince that goes around.

Doubt Kennedy would trust Green & the others in the mystery consortium, if they even all exist.

BB

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Hope not getting a bit over crowded by the Green mob Lets hope there is some decent Rangers men involved, or our true history could be wiped out at Ibrox .W.A.T.P Remember that Mr Green and co
Billy K

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I got 7 txts last night from angelina jolie!,,,i told her to stop stalking me

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I did'nt say I believed it, just said I heard it... This is a rumours site and not a fact site is it not?

I can't see it happening in a million years.

CC

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Donald Trump is still interested as is Warren Buffett and Tom Hunter , see I can list a couple of billionaires too doesn't mean they're investing in Rangers

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Sick of hearing Kennedy and the BK if they wanted the club they would have put in a realistic bid with real money , put up or shut up I say

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16 May 2012 09:35:34
Seven of Rangers' first team stars, valued at about £25m, will be made available for nearer £8m in the summer following the pay-cut deals agreed earlier in the season.

Believable38 Unbelievable28

Dont listen to the Daily Record. Rubbish. Those t**ts will print anything to sell papers.... Useless idiots.

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Why are we just quoting newspaper headlines? cant it be backed up with an opinion?
Do We honestly beleive that the players done this deal for a wage cut without safeguarding their own futures?

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I read that this morning.

Only hope I have is shagger, whittaker, Goian, Edu and Naismith ahve all made strong references to staying unless club force them out.

At the end of the day, so long as the wages are back to normal, then the club player has to agree to go.

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"Will be made available"? They already are available, as these knock-down fees were included when they took a pay cut in March. Doesn't mean that they want to leave - moral is good amongst most of the first team. The Daily Record is a shocking newspaper written for people with a mental age of a primary school child - if you read it and choose to believe its nonsense, you deserve to be panicked by things.

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Whilst I hope for the sake of the supporters That their top stars stay at the club, I urge people to look at the state of play with regard with wages ALL the players took a massive wage cut to get the club to the end of the season AND the club still managed TO lose Money, Where is the revenue coming to pay them at their original wages Do I think they will stay at the club at the reduced rates of pay I DON'T THINK SO. We shall see just how many are loyal to club or the greenback!!!

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That's definitely true. And has been out there for some time.

BB

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Players nowadays will say what anyone wants to hear.If they're offered better terms elsewhere(especially if they can walk away for next to nothing)they'll go.Then you'll get the "wanted to stay but decided to go for the sake of the club"story.you tell them there will be no investment in players,maybe div3 if anywhere at all,no european football.They'll be off.

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Why would they want to stay?

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"Do We honestly beleive that the players done this deal for a wage cut without safeguarding their own futures?"

Any shortfall in a tranfer fee as a result of negotiating a pay cut means less money going into the CVA to pay creditors. Not just the tax payer and Ticketus, but also all the other RFC creditors. £18m shortfall if headline is correct is a large hole to leave out the pot. D&P should have forced the pay cuts through in February without negotiating the family silver away.

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Was i the only one thinking Edu was still overpriced at £300,000?

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The players can leave on 1st June for the figures quoted. They do not need to accept reverted contracts or re-established wages this is the cost of 4months, 16weeks of 75% reduced salaries. These players saved the club from being liquidated in February.

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KJ is being manipulated. These guys r being sold and the £8m going to the CVA as part of the asset incremental sell off. Making it look like the players r to blame.

UEFA EBTs penalties after BTC.

SFA to uphold their transfer ban. Club already sold and owner accepted ban!

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Naismith is gone already, the manager has bombed him out. He is already England bound, Everton looking like the likely destination.

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. We shall see just how many are loyal to club or the greenback!!
To say that is all very well but people live according to their means These players will have mortgages etc and I would not blame anyone who left if their wage was going to be less than what they had before this all happened

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This is not news lads. Everyone who took a wage cut will have negotiated a release clause.

Aparrently the hold up was that Naismith wanted to go for free when the window opened.

Naisy and McGregeor £2 million, Davis £1.75, Whitty £850k, Edu £300k are the minimum fee release clauses that are in the public domain.

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I don't see any conspiracy. Remember these are the players who would have had their contracts terminated back in March if they hadn't agreed to the current terms, inclding a quick release. In short, any money Rangers get is a bonus.

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D&P will need to sell players for the CVA. Otherwise it will look like CG will be buying these guys for cheap. They are collectively worth far more than £8m (minus Ibrox and MP).

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Yes remember these players took pay cuts so the club could fulfill its fixtures. In return they wanted release clauses. A fair trade I would say. The alternative could have been much worse.

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These guys can keep for themselves the difference between their release fees and what their agents can secure. Who wouldn't do it?
They gave up millions in income and stopped the club from liquidating and stopped employees being sacked.
The income from their sale will save the club with a CVA.

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Rangers cannot afford to pay their wages so 8 million is a good deal. I actually don't accept the 25 million evaluation, all these players were available for transfer in the January window and nobody put a bid in for any of them.

Anorak.

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I hate to say it, but our team will be sold .
the prices are sad , but when dundee could not afford there players we snaped them up for peanuts . gavin rae , zurab and canniga he did cost us .

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