Rangers Rumours Archive July 01 2012

 

Use our rumours form to send us rangers transfer rumours.


01 Jul 2012 17:09:41
Good news for all Rangers fans. Source Talksport Radio. SFA have refused to transfer the registration papers for Steven Whittaker unless Rangers agree. He will sign a temporary transfer with Norwich and take his case to the Euro Court of Sporting Arbitration.
He won't win and Norwich will have to cough up a transfer fee.

Believable49 Unbelievable128

The transfer fee will go into the creditors pot as it is rangers cash,not sevco.

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Correct the SFA wont, they will pass it to UEFA will pass it over. It is employment law that takes precedence not football rules

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Hopefully, as CG bought the club lock, stock, and players are considered assets of the club (hence their transfer fees are amortised over the life of their contract) then technically CG has been ripped off if some assets decide they don't want to be part of the transfer.

At the risk of sounding like the players are slaves, I feel they should be transferred, if they want to leave after transfer then that's fine (I cannot see any of the deserters wanting to pull on a Rangers jersey again, regardless of which league we are in).

On another note, does anyone know how to propose Lee McCulloch be inducted to the Rangers Hall of Fame?

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Great news, hope all the other traitors get the same, it will bring a much needed cash injection

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And obviously that money will get handed over to Hearts, Rapid Vienna, Arsenal, Man City, Palermo?

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Great! Transfer money might filter through to some of the creditors after all.

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Glad to see him go I'm afraid. Woeful last season after holding the club to ransom after 1 good season but I would be happier to see a bit of cash for him.

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He only has to wait until Rangers are liquidated by BDO and there will be no one to transfer from, so no one to seek approval from.

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What makes you think he won't win. UK employment law is on his side. It will be an interesting test case

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I was led to believe elsewhere that FIFA will push the transfers through whether Rangers and the SFA like it or not?

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The sfa will not refuse as then FIFA become involved as it is a restriction of movement and in breach of european employment law

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He will win his case. Slavery was abolished a long time ago.

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The contract has been moved to Sevco so THE RANGERS would recieve the cash!

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It's all good. No losers then. Sevco till I die.

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Is it Rangers ?? or SERVCO... if Rangers then all money will go to pay debts.
Sets preceent that al players who have not signed with NEWCO thne still Rangers players until theyare not paid? ie if he not had wages from Rangers who are not officially liquidated then he can claim to be free agent and walk as per rules. SFA playing rules book on hthis not helpful to NEWCO in anyway now everyone knows they can go legally unless old Gers pay wages which they wont.

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I cant stop laughing here... Lee McCulloch and hall of fame.... Your having a laugh?

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No,no,no remember Bosman euro employment laws prevails not football rules and do we really trust the SFA! Green thought he could buy us on the cheap and sell us on at a profit, he's got it wrong were finished

Frustrated bear

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Cash goes to Sevco as it's income generated post sale.

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If and it's a big if this is true then the SFA are dafter than I thought, UK and EU employment law applies to TUPE not football "authorities" whims. More costs to the Scottish game thanks to this sorry saga.

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A formality ....sfa don't make decisions, dont worry bears,,,u will get as much as you paid creditors. so its scrape the war chest or sign a few more players on tick

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Bull
Total bull
I can guarantee all Oldco contracts are null and void
End of thread

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On what grounds can the SFA refuse to give a 'free agent' clearance to sign for another club? If TUPE is being used to move employees from one business to another then they are entitled to refuse to be moved. This means they are treated as having resigned. ie. they are no longer in the employment of the business making them 'free agents'. If it later turns out that the newco is offering less favourable terms then the oldco then the ex-employee could still seek damages for unfair dismissal.

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The SFA are covering their backsides. When this hits court Whittaker will win, as employment law trumps slavery, and he will be a Norwich player.

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TUPE regulations are crystal clear on this. The players will leave regardless of if there is a slight delay while the SFA are thrown out of courtfor gross stupidity.

Mac

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First off, he was employed by Rangers so if any cash was generated then it woulkd go to Rangers (creditors). Secondly, morals are out of the window as the rules relating to these were set by DM and CW so we know where that lies. Thirdly, Newco does not formally exist so he will win his case as they have obviously not discussed the transfer of his contract as require by law. The club will not benefit from any transfers unless the player has agreed to be part of Newco.

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Hi ed why is the manager been so quiet any ideas ?? {Ed001's Note - I don't know mate, he has already made an arse of himself once, it could be he just doesn't know what is happening and doesn't want to look silly by saying the wrong thing again. After the way he was misled once, he must have no idea who to listen to now, so best to keep your mouth shut and let it sort itself out. He allowed himself to get caught in the middle once, best thing to do is stand out the firing line now. There is no way he can know for sure what is happening (as was shown) anyway.}

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And yet allow Lafferty to sign for Sion??
dont think so..wishful thinking from OP here I feel..but hey anything to give you guys a wee lift ( pity about the bump to earth though)..JohnnyG

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If he loses the case, then there is an option that as (Green and some of you claim) he his contract has been TUPEd that he and the other rebels return to Servco on the basis of those contracts being transferred on the same terms as OldCo's.

If that happened then Green would need to stump up the wages as were next month, as well as any backdated wages. Which as we all know, is money that he does not have!

Even if Green tries to sell them on, they do not have move on and could stay on their transferred terms which will kill Servco's already limited cashflow and bring about the demise of "Rangers" for the second time in a few months

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To all the posters who have stated employment law will side with SW, well done.. the rest of you take off your blue specs for a moment.. this guy will win, RFC have no friends, no influence, and basically no luck.

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No one currently knows the outcome of this, it will be decided by a court. No doubt there will be a test case, probably Whits as he 'signed' first.

Nothing to do with oldCo so money received will not go to the creditors. The issue is whether or not the contract was indeed moved to newCo, if transferred then we are entitled to a transfer fee or the player must honour their contract, if not then we get zilch.

Pretty straightforward, one thing for sure no one on here knows the answer despite the kerrydale accountants/lawyers claims, it will be decided in a court of law.

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Rangers went tits up, wont hold up in court. They're all free to leave

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Some of the younger players like Mitchell have shown the top stars how to be a Rangers by sticking with them. Greegs and the likes should never be allowed near Ibrox again

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All these clubs signing the dear departed have taken legal advice. Who would you believe. Your club's lawyer or a man who can't get a Scottish bank account but tries to keep that a secret?

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Not so much about contracts as player registration, which is different. Not sure how a player can be registered with a club that doesn't exist so if SFA is correct it's Sevco that gets the fee.

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If he loses the case, then there is an option that as (Green and some of you claim) he his contract has been TUPEd that he and the other rebels return to Servco on the basis of those contracts being transferred on the same terms as OldCo's.

If that happened then Green would need to stump up the wages as were next month, as well as any backdated wages. Which as we all know, is money that he does not have!

Even if Green tries to sell them on, they do not have move on and could stay on their transferred terms which will kill Servco's already limited cashflow and bring about the demise of "Rangers" for the second time in a few months

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SFA hold the contracts, not Green. He will not see a penny out of this. FACT.

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The debate surrounds whether the contracts were part of the assets that Green purchased.
Normally in Liquidation the players contracts transfer to the SFA.
P.O.B.

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Sion have told Green where to go and are prepared for fight.

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With Lafferty going to Sion it should get flushed out pretty soon. The underlying assumption is that the contract of employment was held by Rangers (In Administration), and not another body. Rumours persist that thos given new contracts at the beginning of last season were not done through the club, and that could have a bearing.

If true however it would be another SFA and SPL rule breach, in that players must be contracted to the club they play for.

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"Who would you believe. Your club's lawyer or a man who can't get a Scottish bank account but tries to keep that a secret?"
--

The judge who will be required to rule on it, certainly not you! The point is it is not as clear cut as you and many others suggest.

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Sion, of course, are experts on player registration.

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The only reason the youngsters are staying us cause they know they will get first team football now, not cause they are good enough but because there is no other players! It's not loyalty they are using this as an opportunity to get themselves recognised in order to move on!! If they were to leave now there's no guarantee they would get a chance in another sides first team so thoses foolish enough think its loyalty, wise up and see it for what it is

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It's as clear cut as things come, no transfer fees will be paid

grout

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Players are not 'assets' they are employees. We went to quite a bit of trouble to abolish slavery in this country.

Green is a chancer who is trying to intimidate the players and clubs interested in signing them through bluster and misinformation to get his own way.

The TUPE regulations honestly couldn't be any clearer. Anyone who tells you that it'll have to go to court etc. and Sevco will get transfer fees is talking nonsense.

It will be the same hammer blow effect as the HMRC CVA decision where Rangers fans were gobsmacked that HMRC followed their own stated policy because of the bu!lsh!t being reported in the newspapers and passed off as fact by people on forums who should have known better.

Mac

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I see Charles Green has still managed to delude some. Saying something in a loud voice does not make it correct.

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Rubbish! He has signed a four year contract with an english premier league club because HE HAS GOT AMBITION!

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01 Jul 2012 12:53:01
Does anybody else think the SPL chairman are out of order for stating their opinion publicly before the vote has taken place, their stance and timing of it gave players agents the ammunition to tell Naismith etc they should move on before returning to training and depriving our club of transfer money. Also I might be wrong but did Whittaker give some of his signing on fee back to Hibs to fund their youth set-up .

Believable39 Unbelievable78

Deprive your club of a transfer fee, how many clubs have you deprived of transfer fees. you's owe around 3 million to other clubs and have no intention of paying.......b

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Wasnt that Kris Boyd to Killie? Or has Whittaker done it too?

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NO!! Everything should have done and dusted before Wednesday, all the the other teams needed some sort of indication where it was going!! They can all now try and plan the best way forward for them selfs and Scottish football.
Rangers are destroying what was already left of Scottish football, so asking a stupid question like "are they out of order" is irelavent!

Bigbadjohn

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Do you thinks the SPL chairman were thinking about what was best for Rangers ? Of course not they were under incredible pressure from their own fans to declare their intentions. It is no surprise that they did that and also in the resultant increase in season tickets being sold.

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1) Rangers problems are because of the previous boards not because other SPL clubs voted no to a newco spl entry. The clubs had to tell the fans how they were voting so they could sell season tickets. Just like Rangers supporters arent buying season tickets till they are sure whats happening with the club.

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SPL chairmen keeping Ally happy by being transparent over who said what and why.

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No its justified since the fans are demanding to know and refusing to put money into there club without knowing how they would vote

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The way i see it mate was they announced there views so rangers had plenty time to apply to sfl for place mate

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I have said it all along, that the chairmen are only using this scenario to appease their supporters. No one, (not even the 11 or 12 chairmen who will vote), will know what votes will take place and who will vote either 'yes' or 'no'. Strange how the media haven't asked Mr Lawell how he will vote.

The only thing that I feel will be ironic, is if the newco are voted back in, what will Naismith, Whittaker and co say then?

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They would not have found it necessary to go public if the SPL had not leaked their proposal which was ignoring their own rules, and designed to threaten and intimidate.

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So, in response to the first reply, I take it that our history is intact then. Or is it only the bad bits you will allow us to keep?
A C Mc Lann.

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Nope. They are not out of order at all. They are perfectly within there rights to publicly state their position. In fact if all clubs done it this situation could be accelerated and put to bed. In the same way Jardine and Brown have tried to put their positions to the public. If its fair for them its fair for everyone else, but not if youre a bluenose.

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Never gave it to hibs training ground they had to give Petrie 100 grand cash to move as did brown Thomson o Connr riorden flecher and that is 100 percent true and willie makay

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Why set a date for vote if you aren't going to stick to it? If it needed to be earlier to enable rangers to apply to sfl or for other clubs to drive up season ticket sales, then why not make it earlier. It just confirms how incompetent they all are.

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No IMO its good as we don't have to wait the application to div 3 should already be in

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No. Why not be upfront about your intentions? Transpreancy really is generally for the best. Why would an SPL risk losing season ticket sales to possibly suit Rangers? Anyway, realistically, Naismith & Whittaker were always gonna go.

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The date of the vote had to be at least 14 days after announcement under SPL rules, so couldn't have been earlier - although why let rules stand in your way if it means you can give Sevco 5088 FC an unfair advantage by breaking them?

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To be fair a lot of directors would probally want the newco but in reality the fans say is winning the day the fans make the club

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They have been put in hard position, this should not have dragged on this long, decisions should have been made 2 weeks ago and we could have been by this, some teams are being held ransom by thier fans, for the good of the game i hope those fans come out and follow thier team all season as payback

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It's a bit like a trial jury discussing the case publicly before giving a verdict.
If that happened in court the case would be thrown out.

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There were desperate to shout "NO" from the rooftops, to boost their season ticket sales, wouldn't want to upset their fans.

Fair enough, 3rd division for us, your fans wanted a no vote, they can now deal with the consequences; funny how reality is starting to dawn on the chairmen. Sporting integrity... don't make me laugh... They are desperate for league reconstruction to avert financial armageddon... Forget it, with great pleasure we will watch you die, from the 3rd division.

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Thats a bit rich....Rangers still owe over 1m to Rapid for Jelavic, and 252K to St Etienne for Boconegra and 150K to Orebro for Bedoya and 205K to Palmero for one other player.

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Only a problem if you think it counts against you.

No, it has to be an open debate. When the vote actually happens it'll be secret and probably closer than it looks just now. As for "ammunition", the players probably didn't need any. They'd seen enough.

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01 Jul 2012 11:59:12
green not taking any money from direct debits at all, audi taking back 45 cars tomorrow, sfa to decide on suspention this week, all this adds up to rangers fc being shelved for 12 months. well done mr green your consortium will be delighted eh?.....col.....

Believable65 Unbelievable25

Thought the audi's were given back weeks ago .. Audi still supply the clubs cars that's a rumour .. The only thing your half right with is that we could be expelled for a season !! Direct debit has been cancelled till later in July ... Leave Green alone to get us back on our feet

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Why is it mr greens fault? They are the only mob to come up with the small stack of money neede to buy the club!
Wattie smith turns up with a crap bid to look the hero knowing fine well it wasn't enough to buy green out! And now bomber want season ticket money from fans to buy club but no money to run club on a day to day basis! But it greens fault cause he's no a "Rangers" man?! Well where we're these "Rangers" men months ago!??

Bigbadjohn

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SPL don't want us.

SFL1 aren't paticularly interested.

SPL3 would be a safe haven if they would have us.

If we are out in the wilderness for 12 months who will we play to earn money to pay for Ibrox upkeep. Even SPL3/SPL2 won't pay for Ibrox upkeep.

Do we end up losing Ibrox and atart ground-sharing.

This is a big week coming up.

Wherever we end up, we need 11 players
to turnout for us.

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How can a club be shelved for 12 months, surely Spartans or someone else will apply to enter the football league. If Rangers cant compete this season they will never compete again.

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The Sunday Herald can reveal that the Royal Bank of Scotland refused to underwrite the agreement between Rangers newco and FastPay, a Manchester-based direct debit company, to run the handling of payments by the club's 40,000 season ticket holders.


It is understood departments within the banks refused to sanction an overdraft facility for FastPay and advised that the bank has no dealings with the current owners of Rangers assets, Charles Green's consortium. The bank is understood to be concerned at the current uncertainty about the club's future and its backers.

As part of the deal, FastPay needed the overdraft to pay Ł2.6 million to Rangers newco upfront, which it would have recouped from season ticket holders' direct debit payments. Season tickets, which cost between Ł400 and Ł500 each, have raised close to Ł20m for the club each year in recent seasons.

Without the overdraft FastPay can't give money to Rangers newco, which is registered as Sevco. This could potentially cause cash flow problems for the company and undermine Green's efforts to find more investors for the club.

It emerged yesterday that Rangers has hired Metro Bank as its new corporate bank. Metro is a new arrival on the British banking scene, having launched two years ago. It currently has no presence in Scotland.

The Sunday Herald understands that bigger banks shared the opinion of RBS and would not enter into an arrangement with Rangers newco.

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With regard to Audi. They can take back the cars. The contract they had was with the old liquidated company. A new one will have to be negotiated with Charles Green's Sevco5088. I wouldn't read too much into it other than that.

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Was the Audi contract not moved over as part of TUPE?

Selfish cars, should have shown their loyalty and allowes themselves to be flogged to webuyanycar.com

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Haha cars on TUPE :-)
If Rangers is "shelved" for 12 months then that's the end. A non-league club takes the spare place in SFL3 and Rangers only get back in when another club goes bust.

It's now or never. Even it means mothballing Ibrox. Which it won't.

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Car giants Audi have pulled the plug on a multi-million pound sponsorship deal with Rangers.

The Lomond Audi dealership had an agreement to supply cars for the club’s stars, including striker Steven Naismith and defender Kirk Broadfoot.

But dealership bosses are said to be expecting players and staff at the crisis-hit Ibrox side to hand back 45 top of the range cars by today.

A source said: “Audi haven’t done walking away, but they have driven away.”

Lomond Audi, which has an annual turnover of Ł160million and also supplies cars to Celtic, struck the Rangers deal in 2010.

The premium car company did not renew the contract after Rangers were liquidated. The club is set to be denied entry to the SPL and may have to apply for the Third Division.

Now the players face having to buy their own cars at a time when wages could be slashed.

The source added: “There’s no point donating cars to a team playing in the Third Division – or possibly not playing at all.”

In return for the fleet of cars, the company received prominent trackside advertising at Ibrox, a corporate box at the stadium and branding in club programmes and magazines. At the time, then Rangers chief executive Martin Bain said:

“This club prides itself on developing long partnerships.”

A spokesman for Lomond Audi said: “The contract expires on Saturday and has not been renewed.”

But the dealership’s website yesterday featured a montage of pictures of Steven Naismith test driving the Audi R8 supercar, along with the text: “Our sponsorship allows us to pass on many unique and exclusive benefits to our customers, including access to our corporate box at Ibrox and regular events at both Ibrox and Murray Park.

We do try to ensure that as many customers as possible receive invitations, so please let us know if you are interested in receiving invites to events relating to Rangers.”

Naismith is one of the stars leaving the troubled club. He is expected to sign for Everton within the next 48 hours.
An Ibrox insider said: “Everything appears to be going out the club with nothing coming in.
“Players are leaving, sponsors are not renewing and now the club cars are driving away.”

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Yes....everything is Mr Greens fault isnt it? To the ones blaming Mr Green for everything...give yourself a good slap...then give yourself another one for good measure!!

He was the ONLY ONE to stump up the cash for the club...we MUST give him our backing.

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This new company staff will have to walk away (and back) as there are no cars for them.

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More nonsense about banking on this site. Of course banks will lend it is just a matter of getting the club registered in whatever league they are in. Foot-fall is what will make the descision for them i.e. it will depend what league we are in and what the business plan then looks like and how many people will potentially come through the door. Rangers newco can be a viable business and once the league is sorted will determine what the loan looks like as well as what any potential investor will be prepared to put in. Get a grip chaps and stop blaming Green as this would be exactly the same position if Jim Mcoll had/will step in!

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" Of course banks will lend " He needs the money now. Not when everthing is arranged and the money is coming in.

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"He was the ONLY ONE to stump up the cash for the club...we MUST give him our backing." Who apart from Green says money changed hands?

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"Who apart from Green says money changed hands?"

Huh?

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01 Jul 2012 10:41:57
The million dollar question...

Has Charles Green even filled in the
paperwork to try and join the sfl,the
last i heard on wednesday he hadnt
even got the paperwork done,can anyone
shed some light on the situation?

Believable16 Unbelievable29

As far as im lead to believe he submitted it on friday. Read it in an article on news now, somewhere.

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Do you mean a football licence ... Wasn't done on Friday

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SFA announced on Friday they had received the relevant information from Rangers regarding registration.

BibBear1873

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Yes he did.....
Rangers: Charles Green gives SFA details for membership bid
By Alasdair Lamont
BBC Scotland Charles Green's Sevco consortium has lodged documents with the Scottish Football Association to support its bid for "newco" Rangers' membership.

The SFA requested further information on Green's plans after he submitted an application last Friday.

"We have received an information pack from Sevco Scotland relevant to their membership application," said the SFA.

The Association requires details of the company, requirements on fit and proper officials, and plans for the club.

Meanwhile, Green has hinted he and his Rangers newco would accept proposed conditions to win SFA membership.

Under plans revealed by BBC Scotland on Thursday, Rangers would go straight into Scottish Division One.

Green says that "nothing in this world is free".

An application by Green for his newco to replace the old Rangers in the Scottish Premier League did not gain the support of top flight clubs and it was expected the club's next port of call would be applying to enter the Scottish Football League in Division Three.

But senior Scottish football figures are proposing that Rangers start next season in the second, rather than the fourth, tier.

Asked for his views on the proposals, the Rangers chief executive responded: "Did you refuse to pay the price of membership of your golf club?

"My opinion upon right or wrong doesn't matter.

"We will continue to work to ensure Rangers play football next season and that we can look everyone in the eye."

Meanwhile, Green has echoed chairman Malcolm Murray's call for unity at the club .

Murray issued a statement calling for for an end to "the vicious and gratuitous blood lust" among those vying to control Rangers' destiny.

Former Rangers player John Brown this week announced he was leading a group looking to buy the club and encouraged fans to invest in his consortium rather than buying season tickets.

"It's not right that a proportion of Rangers fans continue to attack my consortium and try to undermine our rescue plans," added Green.

"It's not right that every two weeks a Mel Gibson appears, delivers a Braveheart statement, then doesn't deliver anything."

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He has, was confirmed late on Friday various sources.

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I believe it was handed in on Friday evening.

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What I have heard he submitted it on Friday to the SFA. I hope this gets sorted out fast. Personally I think it should be Div 3 for you or anyone that comes back as a new company

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To the many responses - the OP is talking about an application for membership of the SFL, not the SFA.

No application has yet been made for membership of the SFL.

Mac2.

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We have applied for membership of the SFA, still not sure if we have applied to play in the SFL as SPL is a NO

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My understanding was that we couldn't apply to the SFL until we are officially removed not voted back in to the SPL. Until we are refused re-entry and someone else promoted there is no space in any of the SFL leagues.

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We had a deadline of Friday to apply for SFA membership, that deadline was met.

Who cares about the other applications.

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Another reason to merge all these bodies. Actually I'd split them differently - (1) a league management body and (2) a regulation and compliance body. If they were separate we wouldn't have the pain we're going through now.

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Cant apply to ANY league until you have a valid SFA licence, which was applied for late Friday.

Division 3 here we come........not for this smokescreen of 'sporting integrity'(which is really just hiding bigotry and hatred) but because us the FANS want this.

We will be back bigger and stronger than ever!!

Wonder how much the clubs that will vote NO will jack the prices up when Rangers come to their grounds?

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Can't imagine the SFA will say no. So this part is a formality.

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01 Jul 2012 01:18:45
HISTORY certainly does seem to repeat, with the second time as farce. Or around these parts, with the second time also as a nefarious plan hatched between the SFA, SPL and SFA to have a newco Rangers parachuted into the First Division, instead of starting out at the Third Division.

The game’s authorities appear either unable or unwilling to grasp the mood of supporters across the entire country. The attempts by the governing bodies to avoid treating a still-forming club that will play out of Ibrox as they would any other new club are becoming increasingly desperate. The old Rangers were driven to extinction by unethical practices, yet the means chosen to address the problems created are unethical practices. How else to assess the threat to let refusenik lower division sides effectively rot as other, more pliable members are co-opted into an SPL2? The “lucrative” package of reconstruction proposals – with a new Rangers thrown in – was cooked up by SFA chief executive Stewart Regan, vice-president Rod Petrie, SPL chief executive Neil Doncaster and SFL chief executive David Longmuir.

So here we go again. Just as supporters of SPL clubs rose up to prevent their club chairmen daring to vote a reconstituted – but as yet unnamed and non-SFA member – Rangers straight in to the SPL, so the supporter spring is rising up once more. from scotland on sunday

Believable21 Unbelievable8

The third division it is. My forecast is half the SPL Teams will go to the wall next season. Scottish football is going down.

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There's been numerous posts on here stating the same mate. The game is dead if the corrupt agencies shoehorn Rangers into Div1. Their document stinks and is disingenuous.

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Just to point out this plan wasnt hatched or supported by anyone at the SFL.

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Well would you go against 99.5% of public opinion including football fans (figure Scotland on Sunday/Scotsman website poll) They belive it will prosper without the OF dominance. Two top up gates against 99% of season tickets.

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To put rangers in division 1 would be disgracefull to the smaller clubs rangers must start in the bottom league

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Regan and Doncaster need run out of the Scottish game.

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I agree we should go to the third but if anyone stopped to think for a second going that far down the league could kill off some of the smaller clubs. If rangers were promoted three times on the trot it means three lower league teams miss out. There is sporting integrity and there is protecting scottish football. We should either have rangers in the SPL, first division or out of the game altogether. SPL is a no-no. I think most fans agree on this. Extinction is a no-no. I even know some aberdeen fans who agree to this (for their own warped reasons!). So first division it has to be. I am a dunfermline fan.

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The quicker this mess gets resolved the better the rangers need to know where they are playing next season hopefully it will be div 3 the blazer spivs running the scottish game havnt got a clue make up your minds no disrespect to div 1 clubs i feel we should just go into division 3 then everyones happy any thought fellow bears ?

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Wouldn't surprise me if there was an emergecy addition to the agenda calling for the resignation of Longmuir for threatening 2/3rd of his members.

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The problem is quite clear - let rangers go to the 3rd and people all over the country no matter who they support or what religion they are will lose their jobs. Brilliant guys, lets all take the morale high ground and let people go to the dole office. I got laid off in the 80's because of a Tory government and I can assure you it is not pleasent. This is only a game of football and lets be sensible about this. People like the Raith Rovers chairman wont be looking for his next meal if he has to lay someone off yet he comes out with that nonsense in the papers at the weekend.What is this country turning int!!!!!

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Funny seeing a comment, I think "we" should go to 3rd div. then finishs saying "I'm" a Dunfermline fan. Muppet.

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01 Jul 2012 09:09:05
Spl or div3. Thats the only way div3 prove that the scottish game can survive without the gers spl that they cant. No middle ground of div 1 or 2.If it was any other club apart from the old firm they would be div3

InverBear

Believable33 Unbelievable9

Well division 3 it is then. Why should a new omany be allowed to go straight into spl.

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Very true, but no-one outside of Rangers and Celtic has that kind of support. Div 3 clubs cant afford the policing and other extra costs incurred, it would be chaos. {Ed001's Note - you make no sense, they would only need to pay policing etc on the amount of tickets sold. The sale of tickets would cover any extra costs.}

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Its not over yet. There is a massive groundswell of opinion ,some getting to the media,that the very acceptance of a newco with no 3 years accounts is against the rules. The same set of rules Green threw in their face in the courts. It could be junior football and that is a real possiblity. Scottish banks have given Green the thumbs down. That does not help.

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Ed001 - what you said makes no sense! As much as I agree there wont necessarily be chaos, how do you get a company the size of say RS Mccolls to suddenly have to be run like asda twice a year? It's defintely a problem but the poster did have a point! {Ed001's Note - it's called organisation, just the same as having a big draw in the cup. If they aren't capable of organising that, then they are not capable of running a football club anyway. You are talking absolute nonsense, it is not difficult or rocket science, they do have plans available to them. I don't understand why so many of you are so deluded to think this is impossible for lower league teams to cope with. Try getting involved with real football, instead of pontificating about something you have no idea about!}

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Hard to imagine SFL3 clubs "not affording" Rangers. Aren't these the same clubs that long to be drawn against Rangers in the cup?

It won't be Junior football. That's just scaremongering. With the new season upon us shortly, the SFA/SFL has to get their act together and stop fannying around with structures and decide where Rangers will be playing - almost certainly SFL3.

The bank stuff is a red herring. The creditworthiness of smaller clubs is surely no better than Rangers. There will be a way to do this.

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No need to get offensive. I run a company with 18 employees. If my company suddenly had to deal with an increase in demand on this scale it would be very difficult to deal with. Just because income would increase doesnt make the logistical problem any easier. I do speak from experience. If you want a debate with me on this fair enough. But I'm a businessman and you are a blogger!

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I'm sorry but ed is right. If your in a successful business and the opportunity arises then you gear up vet quickly to deal with demand. If you don't, someone else will. I'm not saying it would be easy, long nights and a lot of work but it would be done. R-M {Ed001's Note - I hate these idiotic people who think running a small business in a completely different sector enables them to understand the ins and outs of running a football club. The guy above, you haven't a clue. If your business couldn't cope, that is why you are still running a small business, not a medium sized or bigger. As for me, you haven't a clue who I am, or what I do, so please come back to me when you do. By the way, you are clearly no businessman, or you would have plans in place to cope with demand dipping and increasing. You may have a business, but you are no businessman.}

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30 Jun 2012 23:06:08
The Clyde Chairman got it spot on, If Scottish football can not survive with out the old firm in the current form then letting Rangers newco back in to the 1st division is just a sticking plaster, A whole new structure is needed, if that is less teams and less money for wadges so be it.

Last Time I looked at the record books before Scottish football was on the TV our clubs were winning in Europe and the national team qualified for World Cups why is the sky deal now so important. Change the wages and start paying a normal amount to players and clubs will be OK.

Yes the best talent will leave for bigger money in Engerland but that has always been the way and the transfer fees will support our clubs.

David

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Yes the last time we did well we didnt have sky but other leagues were the same now money talks the leagues that attracts the best players do well sorry times have moved on we cant go back what player would want to come here with a one team league no tv deal god wake up your hatred of rangers will kill your own team Cooperboy

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This is so true, lets get back to what we used to have, so not football on Sky, might get us all out of the Pubs and the hoose to actually go and see a game

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The problem with the newco this is what it is must join division 3 this is not a punishment but the rules of scottish football there will be a backlash from these sfl fans i think the sfa and sfl have made a huge mistake thinking the newco will just be placed in division 1 all these sfl teams and fans need a bit of respect not bully tactics after all it was greed that ruined rangers fc i think we should just apply for division 3 its giving us bad press and get back to playing football

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I'd go to division three. All these teams clearly want us there and think they will survive so good luck. The way things are looking its be best option for us as a team. Player wise. We could possibly go to div one n have a weak team n struggle. Go to div three clear our feet n build a team of young players and start to play within our means. Yes Scottish football in my opinion would be ruined but it already is. Realistically who watches a Scottish game other than old firm or rangers v someone. I'd rather watch a premiership game. Scottish football should ask Germany for there league blueprints n rules as they have the rule that ye can only spend so much of what you earn etc n that league and even international side ( excluding Italy game ) are thriving again.

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There u go cooper boy ..the problem with u and your ex club is ...u think everyone needs u..it will be the death of scottish football ...total crap sfl teams have been going for years without the money from the old firm ....servco fans need to get a look at the bigger picture it is not scottish football tht got use in to this mess

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Agree David,BANG ON THE MONEY,but Cooperboy is wrong,ENGERLAND always had BIGGER BUCKS THAN US Iam a hoops fan,but please read SABOTAGE TV,RANGERS KILLED SCOTTISH FOOTBALL IN THE EIGHTIES.It is THE BEST article i have read in years.Type it in and engage the brain.....timmy tim........

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There is no hatred of Rangers at play here. This mess could have been resolved if Rangers had showed contrition for decades of cheating, refrained from threats and intimidation and pledged to play in future within a level playing field. Now time has passed and RFC 1872 has ceased to exist, i look forward to the day when a new rangers returns to the SPL on sporting merit having climbed the league structure

Grout

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The problem with this post is that since our troubles became public,no one,and I mean no one who has spouted the Scottish Football is finished without RFC line has published any facts or figures to back their arguement.There are,however,folk who have calculated the estimated loss to each club and how many more STs they would have to sell to make up for the loss of RFCs travelling fans.If I recall correctly the figure is around 350 for everyone except CFC who would need to sell around 1k.
If we're going to convince people our argument is sound then at least we should know what we're talking about.
Some facts.
RFC will be liquidated
Sevco,not RFC is now the business
Sevco have only 13 players
Sevco have no SPL or SFA licence
They should not be allowed,by law to use the Rangers name until BDO release it.
What colours will they play in,if they can access a league
What badge will be on the shirt
Who's supplying the cash to support the club at this time.
All fact and shouting WATP or Rangers will never die etc will not change any of the above.We're already dead!.

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We've no problem as fans going div 3 its the authorities which are trying to parachute us higher. I think this is what annoys other clubs fans is that they can't have a dig at Gers fans cos we all want same thing. It's what keeps some people going , having a pop at Gers fans. The club has been seriously mismanaged for years we all know this cos its been on rangers tac case etc. Etc. However decent tax paying ticket purchasing shirt buying fans are victims as much as anybody. In my opinion.

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Think if you look at main points in the change of Scottish fooball a big part seesm to stem from when Mr Souness came into Ibrox and then 2yrs later Mr Murray. Up to this poin other teams were holding their own such as Aberdeen and Dundee United mostly with home grown talent. Even Scotlands national team were qualifying for World Cup ie Mexico in 86. From around this point our game went into melt down but for soem unknown reason our press and tv did not "notice this"? Not one for wishing ill for anyone or any team but prehaps taking them away from th emain league and Europe for 3to 4 yrs just might help our game recover and allow again for talents such as Miller Mcliesh , Narey Hegarty, Sturrock, Strachan Cooper Mcoist, Mcgrain etc etc ,,, be ahrd pushed now to get this amount.

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Surely being total crap is nothing to brag about !

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If my club needs Rangers to survive, i'd rather it died than beg for scraps from another club. Although i don't think for one minute it does need them to survive - don't believe the hype!

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A bit of common sense has to prevail, how about 3 leagues of 14 with Rangers starting in div. 3 most Rangers fans I speak to want this, 2 up 2 down each season, in all leagues, Teams play each other twice home and away, new football finance laws to come in something like the german model, where clubs must produce quarterly finance reports to the sfa, players will get a decent wage, fans will not be ripped off, allow clubs to show more than one sponsor on there jerseys, like I see in most other leagues in europe.
have a winter shut down (1 month), let teams do exhibition matches. with less games it would provide more flexibility in the season to help our teams in europe.
Just a few thoughts, we have to stop infighting, and try and come together for the benefit of Scottish football, all positive comments, or additional ideas welcome, thanks ed.

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Interesting paragraph in the Clyde statement " there should be an amnesty from sanctions for clubs forced facing insolvency in the next two years and automatic entry to the Third Division for clubs that are liquidated" ie lets hammer Rangers, oh and lets change the rules in case we get into a financial mess. football integrity ?

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So is it rangers fault that Scotland can't qualify for a major tournament? This just gets better. How Much hatred is there ? Isn't it a fact that Celtic have the least homegrown players in their squad in Europe? Is that not a hindrance for future Scotland squads?

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Sorry Ed but this is going to be another novel I am afraid.

@ "There you go Cooperboy...it is not Scottish football that got use in to this mess"

I don't recall him saying Scottish football got us into this mess anywhere in his post. As far as I read it his post relates more to why the top end of Scottish football is so desperately looking to bale us out of this mess at all and why we risk becoming an even bigger footballing backwater on the National, European and World stage if they don't. I agree with him in this regard despite my club being mostly responsible for it.

The entire problem, if we are indeed looking at the bigger picture as you suggest doing, is that Scottish football IS in a shocking mess itself, not just Rangers/Sevco. You are clearly looking at a different, and entirely unrealistic, picture if you think otherwise. Do you honestly think the SPL/SFA, and to a lesser extent, the SFL are trying to find a compromise purely in the best interests of Rangers? Wake up and look at why they are so desperately trying to shoehorn us, in whatever new guise, into the First Division despite the majority of Rangers fans opposing it as well as the majority of non-Rangers fans.

Three self interested governing bodies only interested in the bottom line figures and not what is in the best interests of the game, and a number of our leading teams (SPL not SFL) admitting they may face financial meltdown (Motherwell stating that if season ticket sales don't rise then they may face administration themselves and they are far from being alone in that regard) if Rangers go to the 3rd Division. The question should be asked as to why, as a country, we have ended up in this untenable scenario and what will happen if some fans (admittedly a minority) get their way and Rangers disappear from Scottish football altogether.

Why are we in this mess? Murray's reckless spending certainly started it but he wasn't the pied piper and everyone else didn't need to follow his example. The crippler, for me, didn't follow until later on though. Scottish football, and more precisely the SPL (as you say the SFL will remain relatively unaffected by Rangers demise), is in this position of economic dependence upon BOTH of the Old Firm in the first place because of the greed shown by Rangers AND Celtic in collectively bullying their way into setting up a league entirely separate to the SFL in the first place purely for their own gains and at the expense of the other clubs.

Relative economic parity (gate receipts aside) disappeared from the game once the Old Firm grabbed control and wrested 80% of the income for themselves. The other teams have been left to feed off our collective scraps ever since and the proof is in the fact that no team outside the Old Firm have won the SPL since its inception and the Old Firm have only been separated at the top on a handful of occasions. Another issue arising from this same point is the historic reluctance to enter into any form of league reconstruction despite the fans screaming out for a larger league. With the OF taking most of the money the other clubs couldn't afford to give up the chance of playing Rangers and Celtic four or more times a season. It was the only way they could survive and remain financially strong enough to remain in the league. After all, they were already forced into upgrading their stadia at huge expense, fit undersoil heating, and meet all the other hugely expensive SPL criteria despite being, essentially, provincial clubs with little or no financial muscle which was then limited even further by the OF, in order to gain a seat at the top table. The Old Firm creation that is the SPL and the financial disparity it created is the reason we are seeing this desperation by the SPL clubs to 'accommodate' Rangers in the First Division, nothing else.

What will happen if Rangers do disappear? The majority of Rangers support, and the finance they bring to clubs in terms of numbers, catering, ridiculously overinflated ticket prices, etc, will be lost to the game and it will have a huge impact. You are right in relation to this having little or no effect on the lower leagues as they don't depend on OF income but the SPL will SERIOUSLY struggle for decades afterwards if this does come to pass. Dundee or Dunfermline simply cannot replace Rangers in terms of essential commercial value to these clubs if they want to survive or become competitive.

Some of our top clubs will inevitably follow Rangers into oblivion and yes they will be replaced by teams from the lower leagues but what happens to the product, the entry criteria for the SPL, the quality of players and the wages they are on, the co-efficient, sponsorship, TV revenue, etc whilst this revolution takes place? Bury your head in the sand if you like but Scottish football may never recover, pure and simple.

Celtic will be able to cut their cloth accordingly and will probably win the league year after year without much struggle but unless Dermott Desmond bankrolls the level of player required to at least reach the group stages of the Champions League or they do indeed buy their way into another league then they too would slowly go backwards and even then what player of any quality would want to come to play in a league with no money and no competition anyway?

The others, those who avoid liquidation or admin, may go part-time or work with far smaller squads than they do currently but would still not be able to afford the level of players we have now and that is a worry in itself given how poor the players in the SPL are currently. Also, how do clubs like Clyde, Airdrie, Stenhousemuir, etc manage to finance the criteria required for entry into the SPL without burdening themselves with unsustainable debt just as the current SPL teams have? They would become entirely dependent upon Celtic as their financial crutch and Celtic would not have the voting rights to do much about it. It would be a vicious circle which would be incredibly difficult to get back out from. We would be entirely dependent upon producing youth players of good enough quality to maintain the game and that is a huge, huge risk to take. Our co-efficient would plummet even further and Scottish clubs, including the winners of the SPL, would most likely find themselves going through the preliminary rounds of European football as the Irish and Welsh teams have to in a surprisingly quick timeframe. After a few years sponsors would walk or at best pay peanuts, TV deals would most likely go the same way and the poor quality on show will affect the attendance figures.

You are right, people really should look at the bigger picture before the entire thing implodes in this country or it will be, not necessarily the death of, but the death throes of Scottish football in terms of international standing. You are also right in saying Scottish football doesn't need Rangers as the bad elements can be done without and will improve our national image but if you think it doesn't need Sevco (under new management and hopefully minus a lot of the baggage) then you are deluded or you are happy to accept the potential armageddon described above. Yes Rangers are the main cause of it, we as fans accept that, but realise the harm that will be inflicted upon yourselves before calling for our 'new' club with no footballing history to be left in the wilderness. Division 3 will do me fine, as I have said for months, and the SPL may cope if Rangers gain successive promotions but I can realistically see Division 1 as being the compromise reached as the top clubs will not take that chance.

Brian

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Scottish football has been s**t for years.scotland is a small country why not join the premier league and the first div and join the 2nd & 3rd.2 leagues which play twice 1 home game & 1 away.it will create a more competitive league and alot of teams in the first div are very good it the most competitive league in scotland you don't know who will finish top.cant say the same for the spl.if they did this rangers would only be away from the top flight for 1 year that should help with sky.but sky should not dictate to scottish football.they are destroying the game through greed.our sfa chould think what is best for the game a better competitive league would bring fans back.i am sick of watching overpaid players play a crap game.why not play our young boys, yes they will leave to bigger clubs and get more money but it will be better to watch because they will want that big move away.through this our national side would get better.i am sick of our sfa having no balls to do what is right for the game, as usual money dictates and the never listen to the fans.rangers should be in the third div with this they have their pride and honour intact the earned that place just and they would earn their eay back to the spl.by jumping the queue to the 1st div their is no pride in that, it will always haunt the newco. stuff every club rfc should have respect i welcome the third div !!

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Sorry Brian but to get even an SFA ticket Green needs to prove financial probity. He has not convinced the Scottish banks. from today's paper --The Sunday Herald can reveal that the Royal Bank of Scotland refused to underwrite the agreement between Rangers newco and FastPay, a Manchester-based direct debit company, to run the handling of payments by the club's 40,000 season ticket holders.


It is understood departments within the banks refused to sanction an overdraft facility for FastPay and advised that the bank has no dealings with the current owners of Rangers assets, Charles Green's consortium. The bank is understood to be concerned at the current uncertainty about the club's future and its backers.

As part of the deal, FastPay needed the overdraft to pay Ł2.6 million to Rangers newco upfront, which it would have recouped from season ticket holders' direct debit payments. Season tickets, which cost between Ł400 and Ł500 each, have raised close to Ł20m for the club each year in recent seasons.

Without the overdraft FastPay can't give money to Rangers newco, which is registered as Sevco. This could potentially cause cash flow problems for the company and undermine Green's efforts to find more investors for the club.

It emerged yesterday that Rangers has hired Metro Bank as its new corporate bank. Metro is a new arrival on the British banking scene, having launched two years ago. It currently has no presence in Scotland.

The Sunday Herald understands that bigger banks shared the opinion of RBS and would not enter into an arrangement with Rangers newco.

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Our game existed before sky deals and will still exist without them, and spl clubs will exist without newco

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@Brian.
Most well-thought out argument yet.Undoubtably Scottish football won't die,but without the numbers of Ranger's supporters at away games,we would slide into a similar standard as Irish League.I'm sure all supporters have noticed the decline in standards up here, and we really can't afford to drop much further.

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@ "Sorry Brian..."

Why are you sorry? If you think the SFA won't grant a license because RBS and a few other banks have allegedly refused to underwrite a Ł2.6m deal involving a club that currently is not registered to play in a league (I wouldn't either so I am not surprised at that) which could "potentially" cause difficulties for said club financially then why did they state they would consider the documents with all due haste when they arrived on Friday and why would they collaborate in this plan for parachuting them into the first division. The decision will have already been made to grant it for the reasons I have mentioned above and that is not arrogance (before the inevitable claims to the contrary appear) it is simply economic common sense on behalf of the SFA who are duty bound to look after the game as a whole, including financially. If your implication is somehow proven correct and Rangers are refused by the SFA and become another Third Lanark then I am the one that is truly sorry for the role my club would have played in relegating Scottish football to the wilderness in the very near future as that is what will happen in my opinion.

@ "SPL clubs will exist without Newco".

I have no doubt they will either but at what level, how competitive and for how long? Motherwell, Kilmarnock, Dundee United and St Mirren have all clearly stated that they need their own supporters to make up the shortfall caused by the potential loss of income from Rangers or they will be in serious trouble. It does appear their supporters are stepping up THIS year (reported increase in season ticket sales) just as Rangers fans will if we end up in the 3rd Division, but what about next year and the year after that? In particular the second year when they will in all likelihood be asked to pay substantially more to watch an even poorer product to make up for the shortfall in sponsorship and reduced TV income as they will be up for renewal?

The clubs that have came out publicly and admitted they will struggle face a very uncertain future financially and have admitted not buying any new players because of it. What makes you think that will change anytime soon if Rangers go to the wall? The SPL chairmen will be praying that the SFL relent and accept this deal - it is the only way THEY feel they will be able to survive long term and they KNOW their own finances and projections far better than us. It will be like a turnout for a cup final this year in terms of season tickets and then, just like after reaching the final, the provincial support will dissipate back to its current levels or worse just as quickly. If they go to the wall because of it (Killie will be first to go, they are on the edge already) then how many first division teams are ready or even willing to get themselves into serious debt to meet the criteria with no real means of recouping the outlay and having watched first hand what has happened to the clubs they would be replacing? Very few if they had any sense. It has disaster written all over it in my opinion. Scottish football is in big, big trouble financially even with Rangers in the SPL and to suggest it will go on as normal without them is nonsensical.

Brian

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Last Post. This coming season there will be four derby games in Dundee filling grounds,Hearts Hibs --big gates if either is a contender Inverness-Ross County will fill grounds. Killie Motherwell might pick up fans from those that used to leave in buses for Ibrox. RFC(IA) announced boycott of Aberdeen so they are no worse of without you. St Johnston will gain from Dundee. Loads of locals who avoid OF games will turn out. Your departure will hardly be noticed.

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@ "Last Post".

Fair point re the number of derbies next season and the potential increased attendances for those matches but the CLUBS (you know, the guys that are actually aware and being vocal about the financial implications facing them if Rangers even drop to Div3 never mind go out of football altogether) are saying they need to sell on average 350 extra season tickets (NOT sell out the odd derby match here and there which is highly doubtful in itself anyway given previous attendance figures) this season to stand a chance of recouping their projected losses for next season. It should be achievable, just, this time around given the depth of feeling on the matter, but it simply won't be sustainable over the coming seasons as fans will inevitably drift away again (cup final scenario) once the quality dwindles (they can't afford to buy anyone just now so what will they do the following season?) and the sponsorship and TV money inevitably reduces when they are up for renewal. The OF games and the global attention they received were THE main attraction for them and the reason these companies backed the SPL in the first place. They WILL stay in my opinion but they will offer very little in comparison to now and we get peanuts by comparison to other European leagues as it is.

I also seriously doubt Rangers fans would support another SPL team (Divisions 2 or 3 maybe, so not lost entirely to the game, but certainly not the SPL clubs in my opinion). Why would or should they? Hearts or Hibs contenders? No offence to them but Hearts couldn't afford to pay their players for half of last season and are culling their squad, and Hibs, unless I am mistaken, narrowly avoided relegation. Contenders, lol! Maybe for a cup but NO-ONE will get near Celtic this coming year. The league will be wrapped up by November.

I would say remove the blinkers and open your eyes but using your ears may be a more appropriate action to take.

Motherwell and Kilmarnock have already SAID (them, not me, and on the record) that they face a realistic chance of administration if the fans don't plug the financial gap this season. 350 season tickets isn't a lot if it is Celtic (possibly Hearts, Hibs and Aberdeen too to be fair) but the others who have traditionally low attendance figures or grounds with very small capacities are going to seriously struggle to reach those figures. Dundee United, a very well run and reasonably well supported club, are on the brink too and have cut back drastically on their budgets in the last two seasons. Even then they are still operating at a loss so what are they going to do to make up the shortfall over the coming seasons? Go part-time? That will really help our co-efficient and keep them in the league. It is time to start listening to these chairmen before the proverbial hits the fan.

Why do you think the Clyde chairman is advocating an amnesty in future when it comes to administration and/or liquidation and a direct route back into the leagues without the need to re-apply? Possibly because he is expecting a LOT of clubs to follow Rangers down the pan if non-Rangers fans get their way? But hey, what would they know about finances, they only run the clubs. Wake up to the gravity of the situation. As a Rangers fan I want us to apply directly to Division 3 (not to be told that is our only option) and earn our place back in the top flight in the correct manner so this isn't me advocating acceptance into the SPL or Division 1. Personally, I think it would be entirely unjust to even consider it. I am simply stating what I BELIEVE (having actually listened to what these people have to say) will be the outcome, and the reasons why, if it isn't and we disappear from Scottish football altogether.

Brian

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Brian. Brilliant post. A well articulated and constructed argument.
R-M.

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