Rangers Rumours Archive May 27 2012
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27 May 2012 18:02:48
naismith going to everton
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Of course he is. It's a no brainier.
This is the guy who said there was no danger of players not accepting 75% wage cuts, after he was last to accept, over a 2 week negotiating period. Guess when the players walk next Friday their monies go into CVA.
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Yea he will be off it was good of the players to take a pay cut but at the end of the day the mental clauses that duff and phelps allowed the players to put in their contracts will cripple us. Naismith has a total cheek though yea he has put in some great performances but how many times has he had long term injuries and relied on the club to put him through his physio dont remember him sayin he would take pay cuts then.
gers1986
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Our season effectively ended when he got injured, the results prove this. Best of luck to Naisy if he goes. Got to look after number 1
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Wee naisy owes us a season after we carried him through two major injuries, thats my opinion
JG
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Well naisys missus has just opened a dentist in ayrshire and ive been told by a close family member that he is happy to play for rangers forever but also davie weir has been hounding him to go to everton {Ed014's Note - It is Jelavic that has been telling Moyes to sign him.
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He'll be back.
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If d&p done there job for the creditors he would have been off for a free within 72 hours of admin!!!!!Something stinks the way d&p have handled this. Seems they want to sue everyone for the Rangers, but there remit is for almost 300 creditors. As things have gone so far maybe Wee Whyte has kept you's afloat longer than Murray could have done. Start of next month all your players walk on a free. Think all the vultures realise this.
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He won't be back. There will be nothing to come back too. If the SFA and SPL don't have the bottle EUFA are going to hammer us. World football is watching this joke. DM how does your ultra ego feel now? Would love to know how much that conman creamed our club for. Still think him and Whyte are working together.
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How much? Well, Ł6.3m for a start.
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What faith can you have in someone who doesn't thinks UEFA is EUFA?!?!?
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The first of many to leave. next season is a write off. we will build a new team the year after once the embargo has been lifted. naisy is a good player, but constantly injured. better to use next season to blood in some young talent... we will still finish second anyway except next year (cva permitting) there will be european footie. WATP.
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Why are people on here posting p@sh , all our players have a set figure written into there contracts stating how much they can leave the club for if the decide to leave ... naisy is going for less than 1.9 million we paid killmarnock ffs
The Airport Bear
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Good luck to him. Why do people go on about loyalty? These players are employees not fans.
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Good luck if he goes.why would he stay with this chaos going on.U only get so long to b a great footballer
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27 May 2012 16:43:11
Ed time and time again this hasn't been posted, could you please let me know why or post it? If Rangers titles from the EBT period are stripped, then their co-efficient points they gained in that period must be as well. The fair and proper fans of every other club think we have cheated teams out of clubs and titles, so surely they must agree that includes European teams. Point being they are all slabbering at the thought of our titles being stripped out of fairness, I hope their also slabbering about our co efficient points being stripped from Uefa, and Scotlands rank going down the drain. {Ed014's Note - Past co-efficient points will not be affected.It would be punishing teams who have done nothing wrong and who didn't cause any issues or problems.
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Why do rangers fans all wont to hurt other teams who have done nothing wrong. Have the good grace to take your punishment like men not spoiled kids
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Desperate clutching.If proved you will have honours stripped.I must have seen ED's telling you this ten times,do you ever listen?
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Rangers fans just keep trying to drag everyone down with them, wont be long until these teams will be asked if hey want to save them
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Good point Ed, but you know, this is Rangers fans using their globally renowned mentality of don't punish us (although we deserve it) or this consequence might occur...... Any angle to slither out of responsibility...... There's also a culture of hating people disclosing the truth....that dodgy deals should always remain secret.....and those who make illegality and secrets known are really the bad guys..... Such an immorality permeates.
If Scotland's coefficient were to drop then so be it, we would take it because we believe in sporting integrity, what's honest and what's dishonest, we don't try to find sneaky ways out like the Rangers minded.
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The way I look at it, Scotland (due to rangers) have been cheating teams from other countries from European spots, as they cheated Scotland co-efficient points. Other Scottish teams would suffer, but rightly so because the co-efficient points should have never been there in the first place. They did not earn them and Gers cheated to get them, but other teams from other leagues were put at a disadvantage by it. {Ed014's Note - It's still not going to happen.
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Rangers have won 1 of their last 25 European games, trust me your "invaluable" contribution to Scotland's co-efficient isn't that invaluable. Now go and sit in the naughty corner for several years please!
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Two Rangers mates yesterday 'don't believe what u read jn the papers or see on the telly' absolute heads buried up to their shoulders.
They also think there's mysterious knuckle squeezing all powerful men out there who will sort the SFA and SPL and that even Newco means retaining history and titles and no way dropped from SPL.....
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Co-efficient points only cover last 5 seasons, while EBTs were from before this time. And don't forget, this EBT period didn't cover the run to Manchester... That was earned fairly by every player wearing the royal blue.
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To above poster what about Sasa Papac and Steven Davis EBT.
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But surely the issue of morality that the other clubs fans have been bleating on about must be an issue?surely they would want to proper from coefficient points that were unfairly gained? Or is morality in this case irrelevant and does it only become relevant when opposition fans and club executives use it to add weight to their machiavellian plots. {Ed001's Note - it is a ludicrous idea to suggest it would be possible to sort out the co-efficient points. Machiavellian plots? What an idiotic suggestion. It is just a case of it being almost impossible to resolve, it would affect multiple countries and hundreds, maybe even thousands of clubs. No one is going to go through it all, just like they didn't when Marseille got stripped of their title and when Italy went through Calciopoli.}
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Uefa will deduct 51.7% of the Scottish coefficient just because you dont want it to happen doesnt mean it wont SFA knew all about the so called cheating and allowed it to happen to boost the coefficient to get lesser teams into the bigger competitions and SFA secratary/president Campbell Ogilvie has already admitted to it German and French clubs are queuing up to sue the SFA for loss of earnings through their corruption {Ed001's Note - are you for real? For starters, I couldn't care less, personally. For second, it is not going to happen, you do realise that UEFA rules forbid clubs to take court action against federations right? Not just their own either. So no clubs are 'queuing up', however much you might want it to be true.}
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I certainly dont think the suggestion is idiotic it maybe impossible to implement the romoval of coefficient points gained in this time.but the point is that morality as far as urself (man who hides behind a keyboard calling people idiots) is concerned is an ideology that can be called upon whenever it suits somebodies argument and forgotten about just as quickly when it does not.Although I wouldn't expect urself to grasp this point as ur head seems to be resting somewhere between ur shoulders.Andy the ger. {Ed001's Note - do you want to read that back and try again? You might actually have a point to make, but what you have posted is just complete gibberish. You have no idea what you are talking about. Stop with the nonsense, you are making yourself look foolish all on your own.}
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I don't really care if the co-efficient points go. Clubs will just have to accept they are caught in the fallout from a despicable cheating club. We will lose euro places and Celtic will probably have to play additional qualifiers for the champions league each year. RFC on the other hand should be banned from Europe for fifteen years, as this punishment would in some way fit the crime
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Rangers route to the UEFA cup final was notable mainly for their negative play. They scored only 5 goals in the competition. Henrik Larsson playing for Swedish side helsingborgs scored 6.
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Rangers contribution to European football was firstly to cheat their way into the competitions and secondly to roll out their infamous anti football. Parking the bus, 10 defenders, one win in 25 Euro games.
No one will miss that.
Knighthood for Smith?
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Still talking about parking the bus in Europe people seem to forget football is about tactics and playing a defensive game is just as hard as an attacking game its not as beautiful but takes alot of determination and strength
and no-one mentions chelsea who just won the champions league while playing a highly defensive game
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27 May 2012 12:57:27
Duff and Duffer Brown envelopes article
http://www.heraldscotland.com/news/home-news/brown-envelopes-were-arriving-at-my-door-people-were-keen-to-help-me.17704978
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How could Grier be the only guy at Langans eating not knowing it was Ticketus money buying Rangers. When Grier followed Whyte throughout the purchase.
How did Ticketus give Whyte the money before he was owner?
How is the fraud squads investigation into the takeover going? Following Alastair Johnstons file handover?
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Can just picture the whole lot of them sitting round the table at Langans, like goodfellas toasting another successful scam...Catweazle-talkingbone....p.s wonder if PL was present.
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PL present? Please dont tell me you mean Mr Lawell? Because that would make you as unhinged as Leggo.And that is a worry.seek help
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D&P are fools - they now have several competing legal cases running... and all interlinked
Its hard enough to fight one case - but with all three running - once on stand and under oath - there is no lying as whyte already showed......
Whyte was destroyed by lawyers and exposed as someone whose words could not hold credance....
D&P case seems already undermined by the emails we know about - what about the emails we dont... if even one turns up in court D&P could loose so easily...
there is only one truth - sustaining a lie in court is so hard - it needs to be credible, believable (in fron of a jury) and not easy to expose with one email, text or fact.
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I can't see RFC exiting administration in time for next season. This whole situation is so darn complicated. Gotta think its going to get worse, not better.
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Post 5. Two sides to every question. From my viewpoint it gets better and better every time Duff & Phelps try to paint the clouds with sunshine I know bears are getting ready to paint their ar*e with gentian violet.
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27 May 2012 12:48:19
Can anyone explain to me how a CVA can be agreed with HMRC when the Big Tax Case hasn't been decided. Surely if we win it could be 10p in the £ but if we lose the same amount is stretched to maybe 1p in the £ - Jaxie
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As the debt is listed as Ł40 million to the 2 major creditors,
ill going to guess that this agreement will be for the paye and ni that craig whyte missed as the is a known amount,
they might make an agreement to pay the big tax case at the same rate in the future,
but i doubt that will be classed as part of the cva pot and money will have to be found for that at a later date,
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CVA at present can only deal with the known amounts due....
The BTC may introduce additional penalties - as once that decision arrives (and D&P will have 5 days notice on this) - then maybe further CVA - or yet another administration stage...?
But the wealth of BBC emails and stuff on dual contracts make it look like rangers defense will be a joke.
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It was explained few weeks back.
Its as simple as one deal is set for all scenarios.
X in Ł and that is for current debt, plus the outstanding court case.
Not 2 seperate amounts for each case.
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Rangers owe Ł13m this year alone on holding back vat, NI and PAYE.
How can Ł8.5m minus Ł2m for D&P cover that? Never mind Ł40m ??
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Craig Whyte says he's owed Ł30m and that his Miami company has security of the assets.
USA court anyone?
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The creditors pot remains the same in any scenario, 8.5m for the assets, 3.8m owed in from debtors, plus precceds from lititigations and monies tracked down by D&P, suppossing the dodgy lawyers insurers settle out of court for 8 -10m, the full creditors pot will be circa 20-25m.
thats whats available in any possible scenario and any posssible debt level.
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Won't matter anyway.HMRC will not agree to a CVA if tax has been deliberately withheld.Anyone who says different is wrong,and that includes D&P,Charles Green and any other shyster involved in this shambles of an administration.
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Last post is nonsense the collyer Bristow case has been blown out the water by the BBC documentary. D&P fees to date (circa Ł3 million) have still to be deducted from the purchase fee. So all in all about Ł 5 M for the CVA pot. Which means no CVA
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The public accounts committee of the House of Commons has sacked the top three ZhMRC managers who were involved in corporate CVA deals and said NO MORE. How can Rangers do a deal?
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Collyer Bristow case has been blown out the water by the BBC documentary
--------------------
oh no it hasnt, do you even know whats involved?
at worst the beebs sham of a documentary leaves potentialy, D&P to be added to list of litigants.
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BBc sham......
So how many law suits filed against this sham.... so far none - just threats and people talking about talking to lawyers.... easy to say....
We have seen some emails BBC got hold of... what about the others.....
Most the of BBC details been on the web for months, or years.........
People can say "I never took a penny" from rangers.... and if they took 1,000,000 then that statement is still valid... ! EBT came from trust - not ranger...
lots of ways to twist this.
But facts are facts - and hard to fight in a court of law.
if a sham would 100+ players and others not have legal cases already.... BBC got deep pockets... and no raft of cases...
me thinks its no a sham...even rangers admit they had EBTS running, but did not say how many and to whom...
detail...detail...detail
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Well Craig Whyte may well have security over Ł30m but he won't see that much in a CVA. Under liqidation, when Green's shares revert to CW, that's when he will grap (or try to) Ł3om of assets. And if Ticketus are successful in a case against him, he'll lose most of it anyway.
I think Ticketus are banking on CW being successful in defending his secured creditor status. I can't see D&P challenging that but other creditors will surely want to.
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Here's a question that I haven't seen asked before. Whether or not a CVA is done with HMRC involved, what happens to the employees whose NI contributions were witheld? When they retire they will have a shortfall in their contribution, maybe upto 9 months worth. Sure, they can make up the contribution out of their own pocket. Hardly seems fair though. Whoever finally takes over Rangers should re-pay this money in full in a gesture of good faith to the ordinary employees of the club.
Al
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D&P have no reason to challenge Whyte's creditor status. Their job is to maximise payout however it's divvied up.
Can't see them biting the hand that feeds them anyhow.
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Because until the big tax case is decided Rangers are not liable to pay any money for that so it is irrelevant
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A CVA deals with legacy debts that are known, not unknown
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27 May 2012 12:44:34
So wee Billy Dodds, it seems is, the first to panic over the EBT scandal.In a jumble of contradictions he has admitted receiving payments POST TAX.I wonder how many more are worrying about the possible implications of these payments.If the payments were POST TAX then that would mean rangers had paid the tax due on the cash.But we all know this was a tax avoidance scheme,so why would you pay tax in a tax avoidance scheme?Add the fact that D&P did not know UEFA would be angered at the latest court action and it would seem the end is close.
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UEFA were unhappy at the leniency given to Rangers by the SFA over the Ł13m unpaid this year alone in PAYE, National Insurance contributions (both taken from employees wages) and VAT on sales.
That alone should have been a ban from association football. Div3 at the most lenient but to allow them to remain in SPL is cronyism at its worst.
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UEFA were unhappy? You got a personal line then.Dont think so just another bitter wee person with self opinionated criteria.
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Of course UEFA would be unhappy,remember sion?Thats the trouble with you gers fans.Anything you dont want to hear you dismiss.Hence the reason you are too late to stop your extinction
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I realise he is paid by the Herald but Dodds insults the readers intelligence.
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So first answer quote UEFA Were Unhappy
Third answer quote UEFA Would be Unhappy
Hears one for yous stop making up as much p**h and make everybody Happy
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And again sion played ineligible players didn't with hold tax so stop referin to other crap {Ed014's Note - It has nothing to do with paying tax.Sion challenged a transfer embargo just like the Gers are doing.
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Yes ed exactly what I said if you read one minute there talking about UEFA bein involved because of TAX then they say look what happened to sion which they faught an EMBARGO different from tax
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Why is dodds so defensive if he has nothing to be ashamed of?
he doth protest too much, methinks
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One fundimental difference ED, Sion ignored it and signed players anyway. At least we are doing it right and challenging the decision first!
Ritchie712 {Ed014's Note - What is the difference between Sion taking the Swiss FA to court and the Gers taking the SFA to court?It breaks UEFAs rules,there is no middle ground to it.
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Sion broke their FA's original ban, as far as I am aware we are not proposing to do this Ed. We are challenging the decision first, so Sion is different, they did not abide with the Swiss FA's ban and as a result incurred a UEFA penalty for breaking that ban.
Ritchie712 {Ed014's Note - It breaks UEFAs laws to take legal action against them or any association.There is no other way to dress it up.Rangers have broke one of UEFAs laws by taking legal action,just like Sion did.
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Last poster;are you really that stupid? The fact players payments were not in the contract lodged with the SFA makes them ineligible! same as sion,unregistered players.get it now?
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Yes Ed014, and I can't think why. A waste of money and time as well as shooting themselves in the foot.
Or is there a conspiracy theory to all of this?
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We have not and have no intention of breaking any ban, thats the differennce!
We are chalenging the validity before the punishment not after its been enforced and I think that will be looked at differently by UEFA. I for the life of me dont know why on earth a football authority whether that be a local one or a european one can hold presidence over the Law, this baffles me!
Ritchie712 {Ed001's Note - it doesn't matter about when, it is simply the fact that the UEFA and FIFA statutes, which all clubs sign up to abide by, expressly forbid any kind of legal action against the federations. Rangers would be breaking even more rules by taking the SFA or SPL to court, whether you like it or not. It could lead to expulsion for the club, that would mean they would not be able to play in the SPL, SFL or anywhere else in Europe for that matter. It is sheer stupidity on the part of the administrators, and it is clearly stepping outside their remit of getting the best deal possible for the creditors.}
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Ok Ed. you are right, does that make you happy? As for the guy calling me stupid, you are more than welcome to say it in person but I somehow doubt you would take that up, its easy to say on a forum!
It is my last post as i have put up a few which was not deemed acceptable by the all knowing Ed's so I will leave you all to it.
Ritchie 712 {Ed014's Note - Can anyone see a dummy lying about anywhere...Don't take a 'wee huff' just because you are wrong.
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Really the money paid to Billy Dodds is easy to explain. It goes like this. He wasn't getting a game at Rangers. He had a year of contract left. Rangers allowed him to go on the condition he got paid what he would normally have been paid (after tax) through the EBT.
So Dodds did not get any tax benefit from the EBT but Rangers DID.
Whether this was illegal is purely a matter for HMRC and RFC but not Dodds in this case.
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A know im going to get slaughtered for it but im a rangers fan and we definitely broke the rules but put it into a different situation and we didnt deserve a sanction so steep like a transfer embargo we would not be allowed to appeal without getting kicked out of football wheres the justice in that?
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27 May 2012 12:37:27
Charlie Adam has told his old Rangers pals to take their SFA punishment on the chin — and just get on with it:
The Ibrox club has launched a legal battle to overturn their transfer ban.
But former Gers midfielder Adam — now at Liverpool — said: “Everyone knows they have made mistakes.
“The SFA have made the decision and everyone should move on from it and move on to next season.”
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Probably relates to some talk in the Scottish camp about the potential consequences of the Judicial review. FIFA could suspend the national team fro the WC qualifiers
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Yeah Charlie said he didn't care about the future of the club a few months ago.
That's fine, I don't care one iota about him or his floundering Liverpool future. Match of the Day showing 4 or 5 'Hollywood' passes made his hype greater than his 90 minute talent. Don't know a Liverpool fan that has been impressed.
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This is in the S*n. He knows it was a let off for Ł13m this year alone in unpaid social taxes. Too late it's gone to court and I think the court will uphold the appeal forcing SFA to make the decision again.
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He is one bitter little man who couldn't cut it at ibrox. i for one are absolutely amazed to see him playing for liverpool cause the boy is pure rank!
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I think that with this coming from a good Rangers man we should maybe pay attention.Maybe Shagger etc have told him what is really going on and he knows its getting messy.We have ignored legends in the past like JG so maybe we should start listening to them now.
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Hopefully FIFA will.suspend the national team from competing in qualifiers after rangers have taken the case to the high courts.On the evidence of last nights performance they would be doing them a massive favour.
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Slag Charlie Adams off all you want, the fact is, Charlie has a few bob to burn while Rangers haven't got as much as a ginger bottle left.
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Incase Adam hasn't noticed its out the players hands maybe he Shood just mind his own business
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27 May 2012 12:33:31
According to today's Scotland on Sunday, the administrators are hopeful that a CVA will be agreed by HMRC (and Ticketus) with a date of 13th June being mentioned for the creditors' meeting. The total debt is around £40m for the two main creditors - the outcome of the so-called 'Big Case' has still to be announced. Apparently Charles Green has the funds to comfortably cover the summer running costs of around £7m. So within a couple of weeks might see some light at the end of the tunnel.
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But there is a bloody great train attached to that light . It is called the EBT Express !
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Liquidation in a fortnight.
How can Creditors including HMRC take this money from Asia when no one knows who it came from? What about money laundering laws?
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HMRC have changed their tune if correct.
David Cameron and Alex Salmond went on tv saying they asked HMRC to go easy, guess they have done so!
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This money is from faceless nameless overseas people whom Green will not reveal. How can possibly dirty money be used to assist Rangers?
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Hes another mug cant yous see this . never learn
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At the earliest it would be slightly over 6 weeks before a CVA could be accepted if the proposal is sent out tomorrow.
Therefore are we really to assume the Green consortium will put hard cash into Ibrox weeks before then despite the fact
that their bid depends on the acceptance of a CVA, which I still maintain isn't going to happen?
Sorry but I'm still massively sceptical of Mr Green. BB
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The light at the end of the tunnel is a train, bb
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D p been talking to tax man for weeks must have a good idea if its going to done
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"Charles green has the funds to comfortably cover the summer running costs of Ł7m" I stopped laughing at the lies months ago..... Really sad.
The players walking next Friday will cover some running costs.
Cash from ticket sales goes into CVA pot why aren't D&P selling tickets to look after creditors?
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Yeah money laundering laws... The very first tv interview green did he babled on about money laundering laws!! Wits that all about?
Is Rangers going to be used to clean money for up to 20 Asian guys? Bears won't mind that at all..... Anything to save Mordor.
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I'd like green to list all the people who have put in the Ł8.5m, and exactly how much each, and where it comes from.
I'd also like Green to do exactly the same with the Ł7m operating money mentioned in the article for summer operating costs.
In the words of super ally, everything needs to be open and honest, so we know who we're dealing with. Ally has gone dead quiet since green turned up.
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I missed the TV broadcast when PM told HMRC to go easy on tax cheats. Time he had a word with George Osborne. Alec Salmond said to be backtracking and mumbling about sporting integrity being of prime importance. Rangers fans should get someone to explain to them what "sporting integrity". ---- That was unkind -- too much at one go. Just try working out what "integrity" is.
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Remember the light at the end of the tunnel will be a GREEN light i hope he changes the seats to green as a thank you to him
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Running costs of 7m during which no competitive games are played? Honestly can't see where these people think they are going to start seeing returns on their investment. Nobody think this is all very fishy?
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Fishy as an Icelandic bank.
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27 May 2012 12:07:51
Rangers can be stripped of tainted titles, says SPL boss Neil Doncaster.
SPL chief executive Neil Doncaster has revealed Rangers COULD be stripped of any tainted titles under league rules.
The top flight's lawyers are continuing to investigate the stricken club's use of EBTs and if players were paid outside of the contracts lodged with the authorities.
Doncaster insists they won't be pushed into rushing the inquiry. But he has admitted that, if the case goes against Rangers, the SPL has an option among their 18 available sanctions to withdraw any previous titles awarded.
Bears 13 league and cups are at risk. These were the years EBTs were used. In one final every man on the park and on the bench was being paid his wages tax free offshore.
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Rightly so as well.... If Rangers FC broke the rules, which the evidence now says they did, why should they keep the history of these tainted titles.
If we (Celtic) had done these crimes, then the Hectors fans would be calling for our heads.
Still can't get my head around the other BBC gossip, that D&P were not aware of the rules relating to taking the SFA to court..... Were the RFF not advising them on football matters.
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Doncaster and the SFA are dragging their feet doing all they can to stall for you,he only mentioned the titles because Rangers took them to court and UEFA forbid this,the yare now making the right noises to cover themselves
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It's time to start again. A newco in the Third. Let the rest have their day, the Aberdeens and Celtics etc. The clubs who love to hate more than they love their own club.
Let them have it all.
Celtic and Scotland have enjoyed Rangers Co-Efficient over those very years. They too werent asking any questions just like the rest of us!
I've had enough of all the bullsh!t being spouted by the bitter.
LET THEM HAVE IT, and we can start again.
GDog
WATP
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13 League titles in the period of EBT's? EBT's started in 2001 and finished in 2010. Furthermore Celtic won the SPl in 2000, 2001, 2002, 2004, 2006, 2007 and 2008 so that leaves 2003, 2005, 2009 and 2010 (i.e. 4 titles).
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Rangers beat Celtic by only one point a couple of times and on one occasion by goal difference to win the SPL title. I thought it was down to bad refereeing decisions giving rangers all three points in a few games they should have lost. But obviously fielding offshore tax free paid mercenaries, gave them the edge and made the difference.
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Look forget about 10 years of EBTs, second secret contracts evading tax, the scandals of the takeover, going into Administration, big tax case, small tax case, 273 financial victims, Ł140m in debt not to be repaid......
The actual act this year of deliberately withholding Ł13million of PAYE, NI and VAT to deliver second SPL place is crime enough to be struck off association football indefinitely, never mind remaining in SPL of going to Div3.
The Quantum of all the offences, without doubt should finish the club indefinitely. Never to return.
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Hibs could win a title (cup) and thus give thier fans a boost.
Then these clubs can sue for lost earnings.
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The OP doesn't say 13 league titles. It says titles AND cups; Scottish cups and league cups.
All that prize money needs repaid also with all games being 3-0 against Rangers. Recalculating 11 years league results isn't difficult. It's easy, I'd do it for free. It would be a pleasure!
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The spl doesnt have the power to remove cups, only titles, since the sfa have allready stated they will only be part of the process should rangers appeal then we're talking maximun 4 titles.
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@ poster #4.....so that means then Celtic should have and won 11 in a row...a new record not only winning it the right way with being the first to do it with 9 in a row now we go even further with 11 in a row, what a club indeed, even cheating clubs out of prize and europe money was not enough. for you had to go even further to cheat in order to stay around the level of Celtic and you also had to cheat the weeker clubs in order to beat them, that must really hurt knowing st mirren could have been better then yous if you didnt cheat.
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To the Hector fan posting its only 4 titles.
1. So you admitt its 4 titles gained by cheating.
2, If the SPL do act and punish Rangers, the SFA will have no choice but to review Rangers involvment in both the Scottish Cup & League Cup.
3. Rangers might face other penalities as a result of the discovery of these offences.
4. The other clubs will be entitled to compensation for loss of winning and loss of earnings from taking part in Europe, so more monetary problems to be associated with your CVA.
This hopefully is the final nail in the coffin of Glasgow Rangers.
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The SFA will remove the SFA cups.
In addition, they will be the body to appeal to should Rangers appeal SPL league title removals.
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If a theif steels cars over a period of years then is cought and still has them would they get to keep them ,no they would not, take the trophey's off of rangers ther not thers to keep, this inbarrassment to scotland is only going to get worse before it gets better but the rules was broke and if any fan of any football club dont like them look for a diffrent sport ,queens pk fan sandy
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As i have said in a previous post to this subject - the franchise- milton keynes dons decided that all wimbledons trophys including the fa cup , suddemly belonged to them and took pride of place in the newly formed milton keynes dons trophy cabinet- all mkd had done was bought a club and moved about 80 miles away to a new town and suddenly they had a full trophy cabinet. 9 years ago a group of wimbledon fans formed afc wimbledon and joined the minor couties leauge at the bottom of the F.A pyramid scheme. 9 years later and we were back in leauge football having beaten luton at manchester in the play off final. over a year ago the F.A then decided that milton keynes had no rights to wimbledons trophies and returned them to their rightful owners namely afc wimbledon, having deemed that afc wimbledon was a clear continuation of wimbledon fc. many former wimbledon players have still shown their allegiance to afc wimbledon and take nothing to do with the franchise, ie Dave Beasant, Dennis Wise, Vinnie Jones, Laurie Sanchez,Dean Holdsworth and Marcus Gayle to name but a few. Marcus has been reserve team coach with afc for the last 5 years , but this week left to join Staines Town as manager. All these ex-players still see afc wimbledon as a continuation of wimbledon fc and have nothing to do with the franchise mkd, and those at the F.A agree likewise as they returned all silverware won by wimbledon fc to afc wimbleon- so as far as im concerned anything that rangers have won in the past shall still belong to the new rangers , if such a scenario exists in the future. if anyone is in doubt have a look at afc wimbledons website or google the facts i have stated- they cant take titles away from the gers.
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4 titles could be stripped, would Rangers then be allowed to include wartime titles in their history as Celtic do?
56 and counting??
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To all the Dhims you only hope we get stripped of those titles so you can try and catch us but it wont happen and I wont admit we cheated because we havent been found guilty of the big tax case yet so until then shut yer traps, and if we do win the tax case i bet you lot will think HMRC are bent along with refs,sfa linesmen the list goes on...but back to the main point innocent till the jury decides clowns...and no you lot are not the jury you are just typical spiteful septic fans....
Tam-Sir 1873 Thinks come july that the mighty bears will still be here.
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Hope your right mr AFC Wimbledon....would be brilliant and would annoy the hell outta the east end brady bunch..
Tam-Sir 1873 Still innocent though..
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If rangers are stripped of 4 titles and theyre awarded to celtic would mean anew record of 10 in a row
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Wimbledon won their trophies fair and square before they were bankrupted.
Rangers cheated theirs and are bankrupted also. Big difference!
The responses of rangers fans on here to the Wimbledon story is predictable slithery desperate try any trick.
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Tam: Rangers have been found guilty but are appealing fines etc. FTT is an appeal case.
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I support East Fife a small club that won the Scottosh Cup only once. They are the only 2nd division club to have won it. They were the first club to win the League Cup three times and I am proud of that. If I thought that they had cheated in any way I would be black burnin ashamed. Rangers fans accept that they cheated (withholding IT and NIC is not in any doubt) but argue that it matters to them what the degree of crime is. It is like virginity - you have it or you do not.
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Tam: You may be getting stripped of the titles because you did not declare that your players were also being paid through the EBT scheme ( a 2nd contract). It does not matter if these were legal or illegal in the eyes of HMRC regarding tax.
They were illegal within the rules of the SPL as they were not declared when players were registered.
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To be honest I don't care about it. The trophies won on the ground 'll remain trophies for ever.
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Tam the Hector fan.... why are yoy behaving as a moron...... yes they were won on the field.... but won by cheating the rules that apply to players playing on the field..... If Rangers had advised the SFA or SPL of the events involving these players, then the players would have been suspended from playing, hence not able to win on the field.... Get it real son.... Rangers have cheated.... Rangers have been found out.... Rangers will pay the penalty..... Rangers fans will just have to accept it...
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Celtic won the title in 2001 2002 2004 2006 2007 2008 get your facts ryt first off and as for 9 in a row technically rangers won the first one but it was during the war so didn't count and Celtic didn't exactly declare there ebt at the time will they be punished doubt it
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Doncaster is playing the stripped titles card as a carrot to appease opponents of Rangers Newco.
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To rangers winning the war leagues.
Matey that was because most the great Celtic players of the time were off fighting the war..For Britain and the so called empire.. not hiding at home playing for the Hectors.
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The end of wimbledon fc was also very political, nothing to do with the players on the park, i had to go to selhurst park to watch our "home games"- the politicians wanted nothing to do with plough lane, dons origonal ground, so we were nomads, and thank gog the move to dublin never took off- again paper talk at the time-how similar to just now- my point to all the timothys is the F.A returned all trophys won by wimbledon , from the trophy cabinet of the franchise mk dons to afc wimbledon at the cherry reds stadium in kingston upon thames- afc were also homeless at the beginning , playing at various venues until ground sharing with kingstonians- afc now own this ground and the trophy cabinet has afc wimbledon trophies, alongside wimbledon fc trophies, because the F.A decided thats where they belonged- so SFA stop blethering rubbish about stripping titles, they were won by rangers and with rangers they shall remain.
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It's one of 14 punishment options. In my uninformed opinion I suspect it's unlikely. I mean, it's a rather pointless punishment really.
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There were plenty of Rangers players who fought in the War....MUPPET.
But no...everything Celtic related is perfect, with no wrongdoing, they are the true Saints of the world....
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Thanks ed for posting my stories regarding afc wimbledon- I stay in paisley and im an ibrox bear, but many years ago, i travelled down south th watch wimbledon play away games at Newcastle, Sunderland,Blackburn and even a pre-season friendly against Port Vale- all this during the era of Jones,Sullivan,Scales,Ekoko,Ben Thatcher, Dean Holdswoth, Euell, etc and then more recently ive been down to the cherry reds stadium at kingston upon thames to see afc- crowds are regularly arouind the 4,000 mark , which is amazing considering then club had to start from scratch 9 years ago, but they came through the F.A pyramid set up and we survived our first season back in league football. So whatever punishment is dished out the gers will still be here, the players that the press are naming and trying to shame, did their job on the park, which as footballers thats what they were paid to do, just like the opposition they faced, who were also paid professional footballers- its just that the gers pro's were extremely talented with a manager in Mr Smith, who kept it all together. Dont blame the players, especially the ones that wore the blue jerseys- we were just better, pure and simple. Rangers 11 players beat the oppositions 11 players on the park to win cups and titles. Thats football.....get on with it timothy- Kilmarknocks 11 paid players beat you in the cup final- better check their tax returns and Hearts beat you in the cup semi- are you suggesting they had extra incentives, no, they were just better than you- so the titles will remain with the club.
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27 May 2012 11:16:32
Billy Dodds(Herald) claims the sum he got from the EBT had already had the tax deducted
Which raises more questions than it answers!
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Firstly, Billy Dodds admitting the payment wasn't discretionary proves the EBT scheme was operated illegally at Ibrox.
Secondly, why did he accept a 'loan' as payment for money he was legally entitled to? Call me a cynic, and I am definitely in that camp now, but the only plausible reason I can think of is that he was told he definitely wouldn't have to ever pay it back. Again, damaging the claims of Rangers operating the EBT scheme legally.
Doddsy was always a tidy enough wee striker but this is clearly an own goal. BB
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Billy Doods must think all football fans are supid and thick if he can peddle that rubbish in the Herald as a legitimate reason for receiving an EBT. So this " loan 2 you got was taxed at source Billy ? PROVE IT ! Lets see the paperwork. You are as bad as that big godly clown Andrews . He says he has the paysips showing him paying tax. But lets see the paperwork that shows you paying tax on your offshore EBT ya big galoot !
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Maybe he believes it and that was what he thought ?
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You guys have it wrong, rangers deducted the tax. BD is telling the truth
why did doddsy agree? because they made it a condition of his transfer to united .
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27 May 2012 10:50:06
steven naismith will sign for everton the deal will be announced next week 2mill 4year deal
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If he dose sign for Everton next week it will be for a lot less than that he hasn't proved he is over the latest serious injury and Everton cant afford to gamble, I think he will go for next to nothing or stay till January if Rangers can afford to pay his reinstated wages
DB77
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Just spoke to Naisy 2 mins ago! Everton story's not true! Not saying he ain't going, but he ain't got a clue where the rumour has come from!
WATP
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Ooooo just spoke to Naisy...hark at you.
Says he aint going but he may..well which one is it?...
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26 May 2012 23:55:34
Not a rumour,not banter - just an honest rangers supporters point of view, don't know about anyone else but I've had more than enough. Too many glory hunters missing the point, it's blatantly obvious there have been footballing crimes committed yet all we hear is how any sanctions will restrict our ability to compete. Personally I don't care where we end up, I just want a club to support. If it takes the rest of my lifetime to get to a competitive level then so be r. Before I am bombarded by anyone thinking I am coming here with a "timmy" agenda I can assure you all as someone from a mixed religion family I post from a logical non sectarian background. Truth be told I'd rather watch an honest bunch of 18 year olds trying their heart out in div 1-3 than a half hearted bunch of money grabbers in the spl anyday. I'll never stop supporting rangers, I truly love my club and one day I hope the club that means so much to me will be looked upon with respect again. I understand people will no doubt suffer and it pains me to think of rangers skipping out on debts, I only hope that the people on the receiving end are compensated as fully as possible because at the end of the day they are every bit as much the victims as the true rangers football fans in this fiasco.
Jamie
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You legend
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Well said.
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Well said mate. Im not of any religious background and nor should that matter but i am a loyal Rangers supporter and i couldn't agree more with your comments. Let's take our punishment in whatever shape or form it may be because we deserve it and hopefully in the not too distant future we can get back to supporting our football team again.
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Exactly well put let's hope this mess is sorted quicker so we can get.back down to football
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Defo tommy post!! It's the "business" that's in trouble, CVA happen all the time! If they weren't allowed to happen the economy would be even worse in the uk! Also when we bring up your past... I'll just stop there!!
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Well done sir! That post is what the rest of Scottish football has been waiting for from a bear for 4 months. If there was more like you , there might be a little bit more sympathy from the rest of us. Alloa fan.
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Well said Jamie. It's time the silent majority were heard , all too often it's the clowns at Rangers that get the spotlight. For your sake and those lke you, hears hoping somebody with the club at heart gets control soon. HH
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Respect ! That's the best post I've ever read on here
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Well said buddy and I hope all the rsa and rst are reading this to see what a true rangers fans think
well said again sir
hail hail
Marco1888
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I fear unless someone pulls their fingers out and soon we'll be lucky to be watching rangers on a public park next season. Can I also say that after proper investigations in to this fiasco I would like to book a spot on this page to warn dm and cw not to drop the soap.
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Spot on mate, couldn't agree more.
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Division 1-3 .. Don't agree with that at all. Rangers are the best team in Scotland and the best supported team in Scotland.. We belong in the spl . Well take our punishment , I would say we will have it hard the next couple os seasons that's it we will be back on top were we belong... As far as the mob are concerned that was the worst team ever that's won the spl ... After all we have been throw if we don't Lose to many big names we won't be far away from them... Ulster bear..
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Celtic fan here, i salute you for your c
post. Many will suffer for the decisions of a few but it is people like you that will carry your club forward. Scotty Bhoy
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Best post on here for months.
I completely agree with you. The whole West of Scotland Old Firm/religious thing is really, really tired - and that's from a lifelong Rangers fan, not a neutral.
Your suggestion could be the best thing for Scotland.
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Im the same lets get it over with as long as we still have a team to support, we have been hung out to dry by the very people we trusted but enough is enough, lets move on
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Well said. That comes from the heart of a football fan irrespective of club allegiance. There are many fans outside of Rangers who can't be bothered with the pantomime anymore. Get it done and lets move on. The sooner I can watch an old firm match again the better!!
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But would the other club still be rangers or would it be like changing teams, where is the continuity ? may as well support your local div 3 team whoever that is
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Jamie well said take our medicine and if we have to start again so be it
Frustrated bear
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Speaking for thousands
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At last a REAL fan who gets it! Fans like yourself deserve so much more.To all the bigots out there,this is what Dignity and honour looks like.
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How can people disagree with the main post on here...well said rangers fan...if there were more like you there would not be all the anti rangers feeling there is out there at the moment..its the fact that no one from rangers has even said the simple word "sorry" that sticks in peoples throat...its a simple 5 letter word that would make such a difference to peoples attitude towards you...think about it..its not difficult to say one you get used to the idea...
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A very honest post. You have put into words very clearly what many people are thinking.
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Well said the only thing I would take slight issue with is the suggestion that the club's creditors are suffering as much as the ordinary fans. I think some of the creditors are suffering much more - I don't think any fans face losing their businesses and homes!
Having said that I would be quite pleased if SDM & CW faced losing theirs! - Jaxie
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Jamie take a bow
Bman
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Well said i for one have had enough i would go to div three if they will have us blood youg boys and try to get back up in three years if we dont we will never be allowed to forget this dark part of our history but we must also remember it is not us who will meat out any punishment we are caught between serving our punishment and keeping other spl clubs alive if other fans want us heavly punished they must accept their own clubs will suffer and if they and their chairmen want sporting entegrity they must forget what the outcome is and punish us if they dont and keep us in the spl its not our choice but back to post yes i agree 100% we have done wrong and must carry the can but lets get the thing sorted out as i am fed up reading about it i will support rangers whatever league we r in and when im here well done to the rangers u15 girls yesterday through to the final of the league cup ;;;; govan n
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Well said Jamie, it's the rangers fans like yourself i feel sorry for not the watp brigade who think it's ok to snub debts and rant about being hard done by. maccabhoy
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Never been a truer post on this site.
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Well done Jamie, as a Celtic fan I am, for the first time, hoping it might turn out alright for your sake because you deserve it. Words of a True Rangers fan and no doubt a very decent person!
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I am 70+ years and a Rangers supporter as long as I can remember (like my Dad before me. I agree that this is the best way out of this mess. Young players - div 3 and fight back.
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Rangers fans should get behind this.
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Well said mate
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The men in the shadows will never allow this sentiment.
There's money involved. Someone decent like the minister for sport in Scotland needs to step forward and twist the SFA's arm into sending Rangers to the third for the sake of Scotland and out national game which is currently our national shame.
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I admre the passion however Rangers have too many problems to survive as before.
Fans need to understand how did we get where we are and make sure it's fixed for the future .
Clearing debt is only a start .
Fans needto own Rangers not the operating company
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SUperb..why are you not speaking for us on official occasions
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Jamie I totally agree with every word like yourself just want a club to support. Take the punishment, pay our dues and move on. To be honest i'd actually prefer division 3 now as staying in the SPL is not right and will allways be held against us.
Scoobs
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It is commercially impossible for RFC to remain at Ibrox-MP and play in Div 3.
A debt free Rangers could not afford the running costs of its own assets with little income. The drop in revenue from all quarters would cripple Rangers and they would go bust in a year. No Sky money, little sponsorship, no Europe, reduced prize money, reduced ticket prices and a fall in attendances add up to bankruptcy.
Anorak.
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Jaimie - I couldn't have put better myself. A heartfelt, humble post to be proud of. Awesome.
Anorak - a very sensible observation but I still think it would be achievable to operate successfully in the 3rd Division personally. A TV deal would be struck as (be it on terrestrial or ESPN even as a highlights package), particularly in the first year, there will be huge media interest in how Rangers cope with their punishment. Also, I think a type of siege mentality will kick in in terms of merchandise revenue and home attendances (not necessarily a full house but not far off), again particularly in the first year. If we do go to the 3rd then NONE of the first team players on a decent wage will remain at the club - even with reduced contracts that would still produce an additional income to offset initial losses in terms of sponsorship etc (which will still exist but on a smaller scale financially). Buying the best players within the division or the one above should see us progress each year at very little expense whilst boosting the coffers of the teams around us. I honestly think it will be the best way forward for Rangers and would provide great exposure and increased revenues for the clubs in the lower leagues. It's win, win, for me. The only problem would be if a stagnation period occurred, we didn't win consecutive promotions and the interest dwindled over time.
Brian
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