Rangers Rumours Archive May 07 2012

 

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07 May 2012 21:30:37
We should suffer no sanctions! Am I happy with our clubs antics, no!

However why do football clubs face sanctions for going into administration?

There is not another business that faces sanctions, if the corner shop goes into administration, it can reopen the next day, they don't face penalties, they don't have to charge customers more, or pay suppliers more, they aren't made to half their hours - there are no penalties!

If RBS goes bust, gets bailed out, there are no sanctions. They don't have to give their savers higher interest rates or charge more interest on loans.

Why are football clubs different? If football clubs are to be treated like any other business then let them be treated like any other business.

Why does football think it should take the high moral ground, let's be honest it is not known for high morals.

Is it a good thing that a newco can spring up after failing to pay people, of course not but that is reality.

Everybody seems to say we should get punished, why?

What have we done wrong, we have failed to pay some heavy bills, but guess what if my shop orders £50k worth of stock that does not sell and I go into administration, then people fail to get paid, that happens every single day in business.

If I reopen my shop, my suppliers may not want to supply me, that is their decision, but there are no fines, no restrictions on my newco. Is it right - no, but it is reality.

I can't think of one industry where there are restrictions, or sanctions.

Believable28 Unbelievable67

To the original poster. It's because of people like you. Morons that believe you are the people that I hope your club goes down the pan. I didn't want you to go out of business but every day of this we did no wrong nonsense just annoys me and it's time for you to go

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If the corner shop stole that stock they would be jailed.

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Well im still trading after getting sequestrated in december 2011 ,only sanctions on me right now are no more than 500.00 credit to be ran up , and i pay my current debt from the date of the petition which was last august ,so in theory i could become a discharged bankrupt by august 2012 doug

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Its a game of sport to be played in a sporting way .hence sanctions.

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The point re RBS having no sanctions is nonsense. Government ministers have dictated lending targets and capital ratios at the bank since the bailout that would never have happened otherwise.

Rangers have done wrong - even Ally McCoist agrees with that. There needs to be a punishment for that wrong doing, particulary as it has impacted on other football clubs across the country, and europe!

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There are not many industries where you can compete with their best employees whilst not paying for them.

There are not many industries that can transfer their assets to a newco and not pay their debts. The administrators should be getting the best deal or creditors.

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Listen guys I am the original poster, let me make it clear that I am against the thought of shafting people, if it was my decision we should repay the bills even if it takes ten years to do so. However the reality is that no other business imposes sanctions, that is the point.

I find it abhorrent that you can close a business, shaft the crediors, and start again debt free, but it happens every day. As I said in the original post, is it right - no.

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To poster two, whyte should be jailed, no argument here. It was him that stole nobody other than him.

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Seriously? is this post for real?   Its to stop clubs spending more than they have coming in, buying expensive players and paying huge wages,  then going into administration at the end of the season and wiping off the debt as if  nothing had happened. If you don't pay other clubs the money they are owed, that is cheating (could stop them siging a new player or coaching staff) Sport is about fairness, diddling the books, ripping people off and then using company insolvency laws to "cover it all up" is why you have sanctions. 

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Rangers have robbed local shops and businesses - and they have been doing it for years . rangers have been robbing every citizen in this country by not paying their taxes and this has been going on for years as well. rangers are thiefs and robbers. I used to have some sympathy with their situation but not any more The arrogance is astonishing . i hope they die !

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Rangers have done wrong, and the SPL etc would love to see us going down the pan. Problem is that half of them will go down with us if they hit us as hard as they want. The SPL HAVE A REAL DILEMMA

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Good post and it happens everyday, its amazing how people suddenly get morals and advocate punishments to a business! I wonder how many of these hypocrites will stop using shops/pubs/bars/resturaunts that have run up debts, folded the company and put a new one in place the next day! And as for the tax avoidance case (nothing has been decided in court yet) Did all these folk immediatly cancel their Vodafone contacts (as they negotiated a deal rumoured to be in the £1billion mark as apposed to the 6-7 billion that actually owed), I hope all these people will stop using Amazon now aswell who deliberately avoided paying corporation tax! Whyte will more than likely not be jailed over this, Rangers problems are minor detail to the huge amount of tax evasion and avoidance that happens everyday!

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Your club cheated on and off the football feild that's why there should be sanctions, if the corner shop ripped you off would you want them to suffer a consequence?

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How ironic that you mention the corner shop because some of them might go into administration due to them not being paid by your club so wake up and take the punishment that should be coming your way

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But they dont is that not the point of this post ...??

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The difference between rangers and a corner shop is the corner shop is not involved in a sporting competion, and would by no means be allowed to clock up £130 m in debt, and if the coner shop owner would have to repay the taxman and incur restrictions if the owner wasnt limited company. The thing that annoys supporters of other clubs is the way rangers blame everyone else for the problems, rangers can blame no-one except david murray and so can all supporters as he is the one who has ruined the game in scotland.

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I think the other big problem is if rangers are allowed to form new company, what can stop killie etc doing the same.

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If Celtic or Aberdeen or Hearts or Dundee Utd were in the same position as you are now, then you wouldnt give a monkeys! If All these teams were winning titles after titles,cups after cups and Rangers were winning nothing, yet these teams had done what you's (Rangers, Not Craig Whyte) have done, Every single Rangers fan would want Blood! Quit with the "Poor Me, Poor Me, Poor me a drink" rubbish and understand the SOUL of every sport is based on integrity, honesty, following rules and fair play! Without that a sport is no longer a sport, its just another business, like "your shop"! You think your hard done by and Scotland needs the mighty Glasgow Rangers........aye right, if England offered you a place down there, you'd be off in a shot, to hell with Scottish Football! Just wait til the double contracts result comes out, then you'll maybe get the deserved punishment!

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As a Rangers fan I do not want either club to move down south, however that is not an issue as it will never happen. Without either half of the Old Firm the Scottish game is poorer for it. The game needs the both to be strong and competing. Our game is possibly at an all time low. The league throughout is poor quality and its at the point where England's lower leagues are fairing better than the old firm when it comes to player recruitment! The Scottish game needs the 2 teams and an authorative body that is competant to lead us out of this mess. The SFA etc is a joke, its sanctions are ludicrous and lacking in hindsight! The least of our worries are what Rangers supposedly have done! When will people realise this and for once do something for the benefit of the scottish game?

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Unbelievable and bad post. Rangwrs is not a normal business but a sports club governed by Football authorities (SPL, SFA and UEFa) which have mandatory regulations. Rangers have broken those regulations and have to be punished by those authorities.
If you were chartered accountants, chartered engineers, Lawyers, QCs cruise ship operators, Doctors, etc and broke the rules of their governing bodies including tax evasion and grossly mismanaged loans, then those professional bodies would punish you......

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The ONLY sanction you have had from going into administration is a 10 point deduction.
Everything else (and those yet to come) are for - stiffing member clubs, stiffing European clubs, failure to pay taxes etc etc.
Just wait till the FTT result arrives!

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Just one point in reply to the Rangers have robbed local businesses, half these businesses wouldn't exist without Rangers.
Simple fact most of them make a lot of money from the club ie local newsagent probably does more business on matchday than the rest of the week combined.
Same goes for pubs, bookies, street vendors etc so to say they are worse of because of Rangers is a complete joke!

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Listen mate if you ran your business year after year double dealing, hiding assets, and ripping off creditors you would be banged up in the nick. It's what's commonly known as running LONG FIRMS, and the prison sentences are pretty steep. Your big hoose, and fancy cars, and jewellery would be sized under the proceeds of crime act and sold off to pay your creditors so your wee shop would not be yours to trade from. You would have to move elsewhere and start again under a new guise. There is a big difference between what Rangers did, and another company who due to unavoidable circumstances can not pay their creditors.
who are you trying to kid.
B13.

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Rangers havent done wrong, it was the MEN IN CHARGE that did things wrong, punish them, not the club. They should face the consequences, not the staff, not the fans.

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At the moment all Rangers are guilty of is going into administration. We're Motherwell threatened with these heavy sanctions when in administration a few years ago, despite the fact they paid off numerous players at minimum cost. John Boyle then bought the club back at a £1. After all the creditors were shafted ! I accept if Rangers are found guilty of double contracts then punishment should be given and excepted if 3 rd division it is so be it. As Rangers brining sporting Integrety in to question have a look at you're own clubs. Who are just as bad. Chairmen have already stated they face a dilemma over Rangers money or the right thing to do. If you want to write about honesty and integrity have a pop at you're own club. Every business tries to pay as little tax as possible from you're newspaper shop, takeaway shops to supermarkets. I could be wrong but I don't think 1 club in SPL that does not try and pay as little tax as possible. At the time EBT's were excepted as a way to pay less tax. It was not about buying players we couldnt afford!! Track 3 LLP system is in use over at Celtic which is a way to pay less tax.

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Football is both a Business and a Sport, and the punishment is being applied to the Sporting side.

Rangers are guilty of Financial Doping, and just like a 100m runner or weightlifter found guilty of taking performance enhancing drugs, you should be stripped of ALL illgotten titles and prevented from returning next season to compete with no debt against teams who have played by the rules, and are actually out of pocket due to Rangers cheating.

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Your club accepted the rules of SPL/SFA. You have broken these rules (ie cheated). That is why you are being punished.

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Just this year- if motherwell or dundee u had not paid a bill or tax and used the money to buy better players and pay the wages (cause thats what we have done) and we ended up 4th how would we feel. now thats only this year what about the past 20 years were we have manipulated the league with under handed wages deal as we couldn't afford the team we had on the park.lets take off the tinted glasses and smell the coffee

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Once again the bloodlust!

'rangers have done wrong'
'they've been doing it for years'
'they are blaming everyone else' etc etc

Yes - everyone admits the non payment of tax in 2011 was wrong - as far as I can see only 1 person is at fault for that.

'For Years' - don't think so! there would have been criminal charges surely?
As for the EBT's, Rangers followed a process which apparently was commonplace (and still is!). Jury is still out on that one.

Blaming everyone? - Who exactly? - haven't heard anyone blaming anyone else!
Only point being made is the drip drip drip of sanctions - changing the rules during the season to ensure Rangers get punished further.

Latest one is - 'if Rangers are allowed BACK into the SPL, there will be boycotts' - - is it just me - but are Rangers not STILL in the SPL !!!!!!!

bill72

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"The thing that annoys supporters of other clubs is the way rangers blame everyone else for the problems, rangers can blame no-one except david murray"

Please tell me who else has been getting the blame, have u not been reading posts about how this is Murray and Whytes fault?

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It should read 'We should not suffer sanctions' ... not 'we should suffer no sanctions' ....

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It's the same elsewhere. If RBS went into administration (as it nearly did) and exited via a newco or CVA it would need to re-apply for a banking licence and get through FSA/BoE requirements.

Nobody is stopping Rangers going through newco. But neither is there any compulsion to let newco take the place of oldco in the league.

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Showing my age here guys ,but I am from the days that your word was good and we pay our debts,unlike Doug who seems pretty proud to be a bankrupt

Rangers deserve any and all sanctions and if they deem them unfair reapply to the SPL and go to the 3rd div

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If the local newsagent goes bust leaving a trail of destruction amongst their creditors they don't start up in business the very next day and get the same contract worth millions of pounds. That is corrupt in my book and I wont be supporting it or any football team involved in any such deception, new co or old co.

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I have read through this post and the replies and the bitterness towards rangers the fact is prior to mr whyte taking over we won three leagues we paid all debts we reduced our overall debt from 28mill to 18 mill then mr whyte comes in and decides to pay no one any directors who questioned him were sacked what else could they do now for punishment yes we need to be punished and staying in the spl under a newco would be best for all spl teams outwith celtic and rangers , celtic could survive all be it with reduced budget and prob reduced stsndard of squad and rangers would be forever condemnd by all so i for one would back rules put in place on newco and go to third division and hopefully get back up in three years but thats not a guarantee remember then the rules would be in place for all clubs and with the loss of tv money and the money from traveling rangers fans how many teams would follow us to the third i for one am feed up of the whole blood lusting lets get it over and done with my love for football is being sucked out of me and right now next season seems a long way away and im glad about that so carry on booting us but beware of what you are all wishing for and to all fans of all clubs have a great summer cooper boy

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If any other business is part of an association then to remain part of that association they will be given separate sanctions not just statutory legal. If rangers no longer want to play competitive sports then you can be treated like a corner shop and simply reform as a newco but that newco would have won nothing with no prospect of ever winning anything other than invitational charity matches. Like a Govan globetrotters (maybe part of millers plan) but far less entertaining.
DB77

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To the original poster:

Do you have no shame? your team is responsible for others facing financial hardship and government cutbacks which may have indirectly caused misfortune and even loss of life due to cuts because companies like Rangers haven't contributed to taxes due. That is why honest hardworking fans want to see your team punished to the full extent of the law and if you harp on about keeping your history then it is probably something that you should not be proud of. take your head out of the sand and see what your team is responsible for.

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Because we didn't just go into administration. If proven guilty about EBT's. We cheated aswell

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What a silly post! Football is a sporting activity although nobody seems to have told Rangers FC that or indeed many of their fans!

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The point is valid, as is the one about benefiting from dodgy accounting. But, the people responsible for the EBT's are long gone (Murray et al) and the fiend responsible for the non- payment of Taxes, administration etc is, if not gone , then technically out of reach of SFA,SPL etc . So , who is being punished, certainly not the instigators of these actions, no , its the fans, the supporters, the current staff and our club, not the bad guy's!!

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Do I sense that now the wind of change is back in Rangers' direction, posters are now saying "stuff the other clubs, we are the poeple" etc but only a week or two ago it was "we should just go and start again in the SL3".

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In case of ebt's the jury is still out on any wrongdoing. has everyone forgotten the reason rangers are in administration is because one man refused to pay bills. the club did no wrong it was the man in charge that did wrong. it also has to be said that paul murray who most wanted to takeover played his part in rangers entering administration. as a company director it was his DUTY to ensure that bills were paid, if he knew that they were not being paid(and i find it hard to believe that he didn't know) why didn't he come out and say so and his bid to takeover may have been more credible in the eyes of the sdministrators

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Rangers the club benefitted from SDM and Whytes actions financially.

Rangers is still going due to non payment of PAYE and VAT.

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Not just EBTs. HMRC won't get all their money even before EBTs are taken into account.

Perhaps all football clubs should be allowed to pay 10p in the pound to HMRC? No, thought not. Tax avoidance, and indeed avoidance of paying any bills, is cheating. No ifs or buts.

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People who try to separate CW's antics from the club just don't get it.

It's CW's club, not yours!

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'government cutbacks which may have indirectly caused misfortune and even loss of life due to cuts'

and now Rangers are to blame for the fecked up state the country is in as well as loss of life???

someone isn't taking their medication !!

bill72

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"it also has to be said that paul murray who most wanted to takeover played his part in rangers entering administration. as a company director it was his DUTY to ensure that bills were paid, if he knew that they were not being paid"

Whyte sacked Paul Murray days after he took control of the club, therefore it would be impossible for Murray to be aware of what was going on at the club.

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If rangers do open a newco the company will not have sanctions against it,but if they want join a league or association they should and will be punished and starting in 3rd division would be the honest way. Its happend before to clubs like milan juvie etc. so take whatever punishment due.

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Rangers have accepted that the EBT scheme was administered wrongly and have accepted liability for £24m. However, the club has appealed against fines etc. which could take the bill up to £75m. That's the FTT result that you're all waiting to hear about.

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And also rangers have known of the tax prob for a few years now and when smith returned he was given £30m pound to spend surely murray should have paid some of the debt off instead.

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07 May 2012 18:42:07
Rumour Rangers got wind of SPL panel and SPL teams likely to vote No newco in SPL. So wrote letter asking for deferral of decisions to 30th May, hoping things might change and hoping Miller stays in game not knowing its Div3.

Believable31 Unbelievable29

A further disgrace then, no remorse no apology just efforts to manipulate the process to their own advantage. Cheats who wont change. The SPL?SFA should now apply the rules in entirety with or without their participation. Expulsion form the league is appropriate

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I suspect the only way out of all ths mess is for a complete restructure of football i n scotland, Rangers will be shoehorned in as part of a restructure....................

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Why are you lying? graeme

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Can i just remind the large amount of septic supporters who polute this site that we as rangers supporters do not agree in any way the actions of david murray or laterly craig whyte, yes we celebrated titles and trophies which we problebly shouldnt have won, but, what were we to know about ebts or non payment of paye ect? if there is any penalties to be dished out then they should be targeting the two criminals who are both prob sitting in vineyards in the south of france...........

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There is no way they were going to vote for a newco not to be admitted to SPL. You don't believe they would vote for their own clubs demise, do you?

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Miller already got told no more probs. steven thompson jst been in the paper today sayin they cant lose gers. so ur caught out. graeme

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"Can i just remind the large amount of septic supporters who polute this site that we as rangers supporters do not agree in any way the actions of david murray or laterly craig whyte, yes we celebrated titles and trophies which we problebly shouldnt have won, but, what were we to know about ebts or non payment of paye ect? if there is any penalties to be dished out then they should be targeting the two criminals who are both prob sitting in vineyards in the south of france..........."

So you'd be happy for Rangers to be stripped of the trophies which they shouldnt have won for the last 10 years?

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"There is no way they were going to vote for a newco not to be admitted to SPL. You don't believe they would vote for their own clubs demise, do you?"

When was the last time a club that got relegated went out of business? They dont get old firm revenue. Total nonsense argument. Clubs are entirely capable of adjusting their budgets given time to prepare. Clutching at straws.

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Why are you all convinced Scottish football cant live without Rangers? They cant afford to live with Rangers as they don't and if they get away with this one then they wont pay their way. All these smaller teams will probably pick up Rangers fans from their own cities. Because they wont be travelling to Ibrox or anywhere else to watch Junior Football.
Wee Tam

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What some people are saying is the spl cant do without rangers therefore if by some unlikely event rangers were to be relegated the spl would have to change the rules, ie the bottom club goes down unless of course its rangers !!!!!!

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Some of the financial stuff being put forward is Eangers leave SPL is wildly inaccurate tosh.
Stephen Thompson saying Dun Utd SPL money going down from £1.4m to £300k is just plain lies.
The £3m Rangers currently get would go to ther teams. Also if teams vote to keep rangers their own fans won't turn up and other fans won't go to their stadium. And they will be named and shamed as dishonest crooks for letting Rangers in.

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D&P cancelled meeting as Doncaster said the new owner wasn,t present...Wit new owner?Doncaster tried to contact D&P but didn,t return his call why?Doncaster gave no assurances to Millar or D&P lies,deception liquidation.Radio Scotland interview tonight wi Doncaster toxco.

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Shouldnt have won the titles???!!

Those titles were won on the pitch, but as usual, because Timmy wasnt good enough on the pitch, theyll cry "Youse had 2 contracts". "Referees helped youse"

Bulls**t

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Answer to your question, yes, strip the titles if need be, but only if murray and whyte are brought to book and charged, they should both be banned from running companies for life, then maybe we can move on...... no doubt you will find something wrong with that answer as well ed!!

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Any 'newco' must have a stadium to be accepted into the SPL. Ibrox Park is owned by Craig Whyte. The administrators know this and that is the reason they requested that the hearing be put back. All Rangers supporters should ask themselves this single question WHY IS KENNEDY TALKING TO CRAIG WHYTE IF HE OWNS NOTHING AND IS AN IRRELEVANCE? Do you get it, now? No stadium no 'newco' into the SPL.

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A few days ago people were saying the SPL were anti-Rangers and should boycott games etc. Now the talk has changed. Why?

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"Those titles were won on the pitch"

.......by players who weren't eligible to play due to double contracts - will all come out in the wash.

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"Those titles were won on the pitch"

.......by players who weren't eligible to play due to double contracts - will all come out in the wash.

and when it does come out clubs from all over Europe will be taking Rangers to task on it.

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"Those titles were won on the pitch, but as usual, because Timmy wasnt good enough on the pitch, theyll cry "Youse had 2 contracts". "Referees helped youse"


much the same way you claim Rangers would have won the title this year if we hadnt had points deducted. except celtic followed the rules, rangers didnt. Titles are to be stripped.

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07 May 2012 18:32:23
A rumour that I saw on twitter is Brian Kennedy nd blue knights in talks with whyte about buying rangers

Believable26 Unbelievable26

How will that work if whyte sells to kennedy does it not have to be approved by the administrators first

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Heard this from another source - but probably the same one from another angle- what could they possible have to discuss. This has been going on nearly as long as the DFS sale.

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The bbc are reporting the same. Got to ask yourself has Whyte really got Rangers at heart or is he just thinking what he can get for his shares and how much he can earn. If he really was a TRUE Rangers fan would he be acting this way?

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If Bill Miller starts Newco & transfers all assets into it then Whyte's shares in Oldco are totally worthless

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I thought d&p said Whyte was irrelevant?

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How can you transfer assets you don't own, talk sense. CW would have to give up those assets, and theres a web if ever there was one.

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Transfering assets you don't own to a new company that you have set up means the owners can't do anything?

Does that mean I can start Asdaz, Tescoz and Applez and transfer ownership of the assets of the original companies without anyone being able to stop me?

If Craig Whyte doesn't deal, the newco is a no go

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So the reports say. Yes, BK can indeed buy CW's shares. But why would he want shares in a company in administration? Possibly to elbow his way into BM's plans for Rangers? D&P can always liquidate, though.

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If CW owns the shares in the old co and doesn't play ball then old co must be liquidated. BK has said all along this is what he is fighting to avoid.

By trying to secure CW shares he is removing an obstacle to our chances of a successful CVA for the old co.

Pretty straightforward IMO

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"If Craig Whyte doesn't deal, the newco is a no go"
--

The £11.2M is to buy the assets from the old co, they are then owned by BM and registered with new co. The £11.2M then becomes the pot for the creditors in the old co.

Not saying I believe or agree with it or think it will work but that's the plan, CW is required to help the old co exit administration through a CVA and to transfer his shares if both co are to be re-united.

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The only advantage with the merger of the debt-free oldco with the newco is to ensure that the history and status of Rangers remains in tact. CW holds that key, and he ain't letting go for zilch.

Liquidation of oldco won't really change much as newco will already be playing in their place. Still can't see what's in it for BK. Maybe there will be TWO RANGERS next season? (One in England, haha).

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I'm wondering what's in this for Kennedy? Ok, we need the shares to achieve a successful newco/oldco merger if all goes to plan with a CVA. So Kennedy now throwing his weight behind BM's takeover...might not be a bad thing if he decides to put his money with the bid also

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07 May 2012 18:29:35
Brian Kennedy in talks with CW regarding purchase of shares.

Believable38 Unbelievable25

Hope he transferred the charges. (Showing my age here)

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Why is Brian Kennedy talking to Craig Whyte if he is an irrelevance - oh I forgot he owns Ibrox and any 'newco' needs a stadium to play anywhere.

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07 May 2012 16:55:25
Remember the days tht u would come on this website and actually see transfer rumours not just all this rubbish about us in debt , y does everyone keep goin on n on about it wot happens happens! Now let this site go bk to transfer rumors!!

Believable13 Unbelievable34

Here's the rumour and you can treat this as FACT...Rangers are signing nobody in the next 12 months

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Well considering there is sanctions on rangers buying certain players then its going to be a pretty quiet transfer rumour forum!

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Thats fine, speak to you in 3 years time

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Well mate considering there is a transfer embargo hanging over our heads what else do you want to talk about?. My wife has some really lovely knitting patterns , maybe we can all talk about them!. Pennyboy

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You cant go on and talk about tranfer rumours as you got a year transfer ban lol

sweeney

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Transfer Rumours is very apt!! As any RFC transfer talk would be a rumour as you cant sign anyone!!!!

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If that was the case there would be no post on this site, we have no money therefor no transfers

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OK rumour has it Rangers are barred from signing anyone for 12 months plus have a current embargo as they remain in administration. Shall we close the site now

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Good shout mate. I hear Italian Serie D side Tagliatelle Carbonara are chasing 2 players from Ashfield.

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I heard off a mate that moved over to L.A. , well was actually off my mates aunt who knew a taxi driver in Dundee. But Beckham is not happy in L.A and has dreamed playing in Glasgow, hes desperate to be part of the scene and would love to parade up and down Buchanan Street all day and his favourite shops are here like the numerous poundstretchers and boots the chemist! The transfer ban will be lifted and he will sign, he is not bothered about his wages anymore and apparently living in glasgow is more than enough for any international sports superstar!

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Thought this was a rangers rumours site,not a rangers transfer rumours site !!

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Ok, which clubs do u want transfer rumours about? Coz it'll no be us this transfer window, no unless it's a bunch of 17 yr olds!!
Big C

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Excellent news regarding Beckham. Onwards and upwards.

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Love the Beckham story. Closer to the truth than some things here in the last few days.

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I heard a rumour that an American has bid 11.2 million for assets he has never seen !

Surely not.

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Everybody pounced on the transfer ban obviously not considering theres no transfer ban imposed on a newco if thats the route that is taken. If that happened we'd have to sign atleast 11 players...

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Transfer rumour for ye...
Entire Rangers first team squad to walk away on a 'free' come 19th may.
And no new signings until all Uefa football creditors have been paid in full.
That one should keep ye going a wee whiley!

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Yeah its a much changed world now isnt it, bring back the good old days when it was just fitba you needed to know about and not be a financial wizard to follow the team

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ALL UEFA football creditors paid in full?

presume that will apply to ALL clubs in Europe then - even the ones that owe Rangers almost 4 mill !

bill72

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Bill 72 Remind me. Who have Rangers sold to Europe and not yet received £4 million for? If CW was so desperate for cash that he sold the Arsenal shares I think he would have gone chasing that. Why did he not?

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Semantics m8:
Clubs not in administration keeping up with payment schedules obviously aren't subject to licensing sanctions.
It is the job of the admins to ensure that any money owing to Rangers in collected when due.
But when you have footballing debts and administration means that these become unenforceable under the (as happens when exiting administration whether by CVA or liquidation) Uefa (and other clubs for that matter) are quite entitled to treat you as any other business would treat a delinquent customer, and refuse to conduct any ongoing business until their losses have been fully met. As the arbiters of footballing transfers. As the arbiters of such deals, the Regulatory authorities could quite legitimately claim to be acting in the best interests of their members by imposing such a condition, and it is certain that they are giving serious consideration of this course of action. What they actually decide remians to be seen.

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07 May 2012 16:03:01
BBC

Scottish Premier League clubs meeting at Hampden have delayed voting on financial fair play rules until 30 May.

Proposals for increased penalties for clubs in administration include the docking of 10 points for two seasons and the loss of 75% of income for three years.

Dunfermline chairman John Yorkston told BBC Scotland there was not enough information to make a decision.

Rangers did not attend Monday's SPL meeting at Hampden.

Current rules state that, should a member club wish to transfer its share in the league to a new company, the decision to accept or reject lies with the SPL board.

The top flight clubs were also due to vote on whether to change the league's voting stucture but that too has been delayed until the end of May.

Believable19 Unbelievable10

Easy solution.... every club not qualifying for Europe goes into administration..all lose 10 points so league position stays the same all these clubs start next year debt free all these clubs contribute into a pot to compensate clubs in europe ( help with their debt) so next season everybody starts fresh.... shouldnt be a problem with spl as they will do anything to keep the status quo and can still implement new rules to start from next season as everybody is debt free and all in the same boat ( all exiting administration before new rules take effect) .... just as daft an idea as what they are doing just now i.e. delaying rules implimentation until the gers can get their house in order

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Why should our football authorities be hurried on extremely important rule changes to suit a yank who has never been to Europe, UK or Scotland. Who gas never watched a football match or put a penny into the game.
Let thd rangers drama play out see if he buys or if it's total liquidatin, then decide the penalties.

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Reason for the delay is that changes to the voting structure can't be put in place for 21 days. The vote is that all clubs vote for newco's etc not just the spl board hence the delay.

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You are being very economical with the truth buddy - Rangers sent representation via the administrators and Yorkston actually said it took a long time to agree upon nothing.

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Does any one think certain spl chairman are using the rangers situation as an excuse (tv money and revenue generated) to not vote for the change in rules so they dont look bad for rejecting them as they might some day be in a similar situation

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John Yorkston won't be back for next meeting so had better start buttering up the fellow frae Ross County or it'll be "Hello -- you'll be the bus frae Elgin are you?" in a few weeks.

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The only voice other than Celtic who is speaking about morals rather than money ,wont be able to vote when its rearranged,good old SFA turn up trumps for you again bears

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The SPL want Rangers, or are scared of ejecting them, one or the others. These 6 people clearly didn't want to be the ones to make the decisions because they know that the clubs will ultimately overrule them anyway.

It was always going to be negotiated. I have been saying this for weeks.

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For a vote to have been taken the 'newco' must have a stadium. Craig Whyte owns Ibrox not the Administrators nor Bill Miller. The delay, I believe, is to allow anybody to buy Ibrox from CW hence Kennedy back on the scene.

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Why was the vote on the voting structure not taken ??

bill72

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07 May 2012 15:58:02
Well surprise surprise SPL postpones any decision till 30th May.

Believable10 Unbelievable5

Didn't we ask for it to be postponed?

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No, changes to the voting system is causing the delay, but find it strange that RFC* didn't even turn up today

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To avoid red faces - thats why they did not turn up or indeed answer any phone calls - CW owns Ibrox and is not an irrelevance because any newco needs a stadium to be accepted into SPL.

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07 May 2012 15:33:32
Decision on meetin today adjourned until 30th may clubs want more info and clarity on EBT situation. FERGIE E/K

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Toothless and spineless, hiding behind a procedural anomaly that they have indicated they will break anyway in the event of an application.
We are a laughing stock, regardless of where you sit on the argument of Newco and rangers etc we all have to stand up at some point to this nonsense. I dont know how we do that, but someone brighter than me must know how we replace this sham.
Nevis

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Why would they want clarity on EBT situation. It has no relevance to the issue in question, that is whether to grant a NEWCO direct entry. In the event of Rangers winning EBT case the only change is that a CVA might, in theory, be more acheivable. There would then be no need for discussion on NEWCO as the OLDCO would exit admin normally. Miller is however pressing ahead with a NEWCO and that alone is what the SPL need to clear up. Its not hard, no clartity needed. How will you vote IN THE EVENT of an aplication for a Newco! If the vote never needs to take place then so be it.

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Could it be that they don't want to be seen to make a decision. They are between a rock and a hard place. If they procrastinate then eventually HMRC and or Ticketus and or UEFA or Glasgow council sewage department will have to do something.

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The administrators should be able to provide clarity by now! Yet, they don't turn up and they are trying to get someone to buy Rangers. The problem I believe is that CW owns Ibrox and you need a stadium to be accepted into SPL!

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07 May 2012 10:04:45
I might be daft but why are the SPL voting now regarding whether or not to keep a team in the league. Surely the rules should in place before now and therefore any new rules should start from the beginning of next season.

Believable22 Unbelievable7

You are daft! That is all

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You're not daft, they just think we are.

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Look lets be clear, they are nor voting about keeping a team in the league. They are voting on allowing a totally new team to join if another established member ceases to operate due to liquidation. It is BM's intentional misrepresentation proposing a hybrid newco with the resurrection of oldco which is confusing everyone. The board has a dilemma under any other circumstances any newco would have to start in the lowest tier. Given the potential financial consequences and the threats from rangers staff and support they are looking for a compromise. However either they lose Rangers fans or fans from other clubs. Rangers should apologise and make amends by ensuring any newco demands to start in Div 3 like any other club, otherwise any future success will be dismissed as irrelevant due to preferential treatment

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Sounds dangerously like common sense

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Dont know about the rest of you bears ,but I would rather suffer the pain and probs of starting in div3 ,than being lorded over by every other team in spl for years ,making out that we owe them a debt of gratitude !

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Well said that man. Tell them to send us to division 3, that way everyone's happy. oops almost forgot all those chairmen wont be happy cause they will lose at least 2 million each over those 3 years. Some might even go into administration, meaning they then have to face the very sanctions they created, 10 points, 75% spl money took off them plus whatever else they might come up with. Then these chairmen will look back and ask themselves, WTF have we done ?...Catweazle-talkingbone.

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But having rangers and celtic in spl has not avoiding other teams going into admin - its driven that to happen

cos rangers/celtic take the majority of the money, win most trophies, get into europe (a cash cow) more, and thus force others into admin

without rangers there may be loss of money, but teams could win games (and that will increase gates), and win cups (more fans), and get into europe more (even more fans), or even champs league (two qualifiers - though to the early stage only) - but if rangers not one of these (like last 10 years) then that even more money

huge up side in money for teams if rangers not there in the spl for 3 years

football - is it now about money - or glory

some teams in spl not won anything for 50 years !!!!

what does that do for the profit margin.....

sharks and minnows - kill the shark (rangers) and what will the minnows do...

probably better than before

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Catweazle - you got it spot on

they all thought that the new proposals made sense until they realised that a few of them might end up in the same boat shortly - especially when the new UEFA Financial Fair Play rules kick in.
oops!

bill72

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07 May 2012 09:43:30
Steven Thompson of Dun Utd in the media this morning saying he's in a lose lose situation. Saying decision to allow Rangers Newco into SPL is sporting integrity versus financial benefit.
I disagree, it's about corruption of football in Scotland. Rangers are bankrupt and have corrupted the game and put all these troubles at our doors. They now attempt to corrupt the whole SPL. Teams own supporters do not want Rangers back, there's financial good reason also numerous away fans including Celtic threaten to boycott teams who vote Rangers into SPL.

Believable30 Unbelievable16

What are celtic fans going to boycott themselves, shut up, Celtic fans will say this so the can win something every year, they can boycott Ibrox along with spl clubs we don't need them at Ibrox as we will fill it ourselfs something the rest of spl clubs can't say

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What on earth are you talking about.
rangers are in the spl no one is letting them back in.
they are trying to come up with a plan for the future.
if rangers are liquidated then that would apply to them as every other team that has the misfortune of being liquidated.
i am a ger and willing to accept the punishment laid out in the rules for going into admin. and what ever rules are put in place if we are liquidated.

simon

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I would like to ask all of these fans if they would love to see Rangers out of the SPL even if it meant there would be a good chance that there club would cease to exist in a season or two's time. The Dundee Utd chairman has went on record about the dilemma and fair play to him he has told it how it is for the rest of the money grabbing chairman in the league. Remember the sky contact SPL teams showed their greed then now they will show it again. There is no way it is Rangers fault for corrupting the game because it has been corrupt for years its sporting integrity versus financial integrity and with the uproar that has surrounded Rangers administration the consequences for the next club that goes into administration will be dire.

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You need to look at big picture like it or not spl provincial teams need rangers as for sporting integrity don't make me laugh lenno badgers and bullies referees to get his way every team has its divers who if they win a game winning penalty are heros sky realise importance of old firm as their agreement stipulates min 4 old firm don't see many clauses about hubs v Motherwell so we were in wrong no doubt but the rest of you get over it

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..Jesus..never seen so much bull in one paragraph in my life....just come out and say it..your a celtic fan and you want Rangers buried..

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I cannot see what henious crime Rangers have committed which has resulted in such bile from other supporters.
Surely it is obvious that what has occurred in the past 12 months are not acts which can be attributed to the institution that is Rangers FC.

This is how I see it. If someone gained entry to your home by way of deception and with the help of your friend or relative and then without your knowledge defrauded your next door neighbour out of their life savings, robbed your electric meter, sold the heirloom that had been left to you by your great aunt and then fraudulantly gained a mortgage on your home and pocketed the proceeds, what crime are you guilty off ? I would suggest that rather than be pilloried by your friends, neighbours and colleagues you would be overwhelmed by sympathy.
In short a crime has been committed against Rangers not Rangers committing a crime.

As far as I am aware Rangers have not been found guilty of anything other than the acts perpetrated by Whyte, everything else is to date is an accusation for which a verdict has not yet been delivered.


As for the non payment of football debts I have not seen any evidence that those payments such as the Wallance transfer balance have yet fallen due, again accusations are being leveled which are not true, a liability and a debt are not the same thing.

In conclusion can those hunting for Rangers blood show me the evidence that in football terms we have benefited from Whytes misdemeanors, I think not.

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Its not that everyone doesnt want Rangers in the SPL., its mostly the timothys that just want their team to become the top club. I do accept that the whole situation with Rangers should not go unpunished but a league without any of the old firm would not survive very long!

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Sick of this chat. either we are booted out or not. I am a ranger till I die. if we are in div 3 next season, so be it. the spl sfa are making a real c*nt of this. what are the current rules?? if they mean we are booted out, then stop this chat and just do it. it's not rangers corrupting the league, it's the other clubs worrying about money in THEIR pockets. WATP

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I wonder if the death threats Steven Thompson received might be playing on his mind. Just a thought.

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Tell me this, how could other clubs not survive without Rangers. Name one team that's been relegated that's went bust. Wait I will tell you...none. They survived without Rangers, without TV revenue. Clubs cut their cloth accordingly to their financial stream, with the exception of you lot mind you.

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Wish they would just say if its 3rd division lets just get on with it and get ready for the new season because if we go down it wont be long till the rest follow us without our money coming in

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In reply to the person who has stated Rangers hve either not been found guilty of any evil crimes - please remember this. The SFA have found the club guilty, now you can quote Mr Whyte as being the problem or not being the problem however the problems have persisted for a number of years now and fans of all clubs have had enough - cheating deserves a penalty, and that has to be accepted without fans or Mr Jardine/Mc Coist making veiled threats.

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There's some rubbish written in these. Can't see the crime? It's all Celtic fans that want Rangers gone? Check statements from all SPL fan groups. I'm happy to admit I am a Celtic fan but also would make it clear I've no desire to see Rangers go under. I think we all know we'd miss the rivalry and the OF games. It will be dull and I'd guess CFC crowds will fall. That said I think we all need to look at the bigger picture rather than talking boycotts or slinging insults. I'm not sure people realise but the reason that many see the need for a punishemnt or demotion is that, in financial terms, a newco is the basic equivalent of liquidation. We can all argue about the semantics but for creditors the outcome is the same. The old company ceases to exist and so debts are dumped with creditors receiving a share of what someone (the NEWCO) will pay for the assets. The debt free newco could in theory then spend what it wants if it can raise the cash. Whilst this may seem a good solution for the average fan the likelihood is that if that doesnt come with punishment then several other clubs could follow suit. In this case not only will the game here lose all crediblity (if it's got any) but no bank will give any club an overdraft and no sponsor will touch it. So lets be clear. Clubs and chairmen aren't licking their lips at the notion of neutering Rangers. In fact the opposite is true and if it had been, say Kilmarnock, in this position then I think we all know they'd be consigned to division 3. Its not really relevant whose fault it is. The truth is the Rangers boom goes all the way back to Graeme Souness and in many ways you can trace it all back there. Whyte and Murray have each caused this and whilst that isnt the fans fault it, it equally wasn't the fans fault at clubs such as Clydebank or Getna. Unfortunately we can't sepaprate a clubs actions from its owner, and lets be honest, every fan would have enjoyed the days or Gazza and Laudrup etc and in terms of trophies, Rangers certainly benefited. The best outcome for everyone is for a CVA to be agreed but it doesn't look likely. If it is a NEWCO fans of all clubs, particularly clubs like Hibs or Dunfermline, have every right to feel aggrieved if Newco is given direct entry debt free and without punishment. If they are, it could be the beginning of the end for the game and potentially even more damanging than relegation for Rangers.

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This is the same Rangers FC that wanted out of Scottish Football to find a place in the English league because the SPL was not grand enough for them that the self styled financiers of our "provincial" clubs are now saying is essential for the very continuation of all Scottish football is it?

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Spot on . rangers have corrupted Scottish football and now they want the autherities to endorse this corruption by allowing themselves to be cpmpromised by arguing the game would suffer financially. If the allow rangers newco into the SPL THERE WILL BE NO SCOTTISH FOOTBALL

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Thomson is correct, that is exactly what is at stake. He is a pragmatist.

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Sporting this, money that. Coming from people who base there reasoning from biased and old guard tradition, passed down from elder to son or daughter. From other SPL team fans who would love a chance to win rather than lose week in week out. Who out of all of you haven't done something that has affected others by doing something wrong. Hypocrites! I am a true Rangers fan who couldn't care less about sanctions, penatlies, exclusion from europe, the SPL. I'm a supporter who says, we've done the crime and we're willing to do the time. We'd be happy in any league as long as we still survive. Debating, moaning and throwing dummies out your pram! Usual from losers and biggots, we are talking 100's of jobs, peoples hopes, dreams and homes. Get the big picture, we are on the verge of going under due to a host of bad decision making by a handfull of men that have brought our club into disripute. It astounds me that people and so called fans of the game keep pushing this "corrupted the game" patter as a collective when there there are other teams who will be going through the same investigation with EBT's next year. Why have I not heard anything about Arsenal? They did the same but paid it back at a fraction of the cost? Scottish Football fans get a grip!

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"I am a true Rangers fan who couldn't care less about sanctions, penatlies, exclusion from europe, the SPL. I'm a supporter who says, we've done the crime and we're willing to do the time. We'd be happy in any league as long as we still survive."

Good for you!
Its good to know that there are decent Rangers fans out there. I hope the club survives in some form for the decent fans like you that have been sold short not only by Sir David Murray and his lickspittle Craig Whyte.
But I also have to say I have been shocked at the attitude and arrogance of agreat number of rangers fans and club representatives who refuse to see how the club has brought it upon itself and what it will take for your rehabilitaion.

All we want to see is fairness. And this means that the historical cheating and financial impropriety of the past cannot go unpunished.

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