18 Feb 2025 09:35:29
I don't like the term happy clappers because I don't think they are but one for the keepers. The main defence we keep hearing for him is the job he's been given, how about trying to speak more about the job he's doing. Rather than just keep explaining his assignment which we all know and what Koppens job is, if your positive and believe in him, how about trying to praise PC for things u think he's doing well. Eg. What has he done for us that gives u confidence going forward? What impresses u? How has he improved players? Etc. I keep using the same massive rebuild job, be patient excuses with my wife but that decorating ain't getting done any time soon. ?.

1.) 18 Feb 2025
18 Feb 2025 10:33:56
Happy clappers or not, don't we think the Clement thing has been discussed enough? We probably all agree that nothing is going to change unless the Board wishes it so maybe it's time to stop going over the same point day after day?

2.) 18 Feb 2025
18 Feb 2025 10:34:21
Kaiser. I think the rebuild process is bigger than we thought. However I see improvement in results: 26/ 30 points for each half of season. our goals against and clean sheets records are better so despite what we think he has improved that. our home form and Europe is good and better than previous seasons.

our away form is/ was a worry and we struggle where we lose a goal first and then game plan seems to not be followed by players. That is a confidence thing in the players which they need to learn from experience I think. the last two away games make me think we are closer to solving that as we have come back from losing first goal and a team equalising to win.

We are worse off by 4 draws after 26 games (8 points) as we had also lost 4 games last season by now. Celtic are actually 5 points better.
so I can see the team getting better although performances are still not great across a whole game.

I would rather with the improvement I have seen give the manager more time to work on it. the background noise re board etc is destabilising and I am not sure another manager brings any guarantees of further improvement with what we have to work with (Moyes or Amorim conundrum) .

I know we are finished domestically but I am willing to take that hit to see if we can be challenging for everything next year with the manager being given more players for next season. I can understand everyone's impatience but don't see a quick fix whichever way we go.

3.) 18 Feb 2025
18 Feb 2025 11:07:07
Hes only in a job because we have no money in the pot. Its only going end one way 6 months from now.

4.) 18 Feb 2025
18 Feb 2025 11:16:12
Cheers Angus you never know if folk try an point at the progress rather than the problem perhaps we'll end up in agreement eventually. ?.

5.) 18 Feb 2025
18 Feb 2025 11:20:34
Basil if we had money do you think we would be 16 points behind?
Do you think some of the players would pay week in week out?

6.) 18 Feb 2025
18 Feb 2025 12:06:49
We have spent enough money the past 2 seasons not to be 13 points behind Bluetoon. It's been spent poorly and PC has been part of it. Jefte, Propper Bajrami, Cortes all examples of this. Also didn't help we spent 17 million on Dessers, Danilo, Yilmaz and Lammers. It's a myth we had no money. Up until the start of thus season we have had a bigger wage bill than Celtic for 3 seasons.

7.) 18 Feb 2025
18 Feb 2025 12:10:12
I would ask a similar but counter to you Kaiser, asked a few posters this with your opinion and never had an answer.

What gives you confidence that a new manager comes in and does better?

I look at our squad and when I compare it with Celtic in the league I would say we are easily 15 points behind them in terms of quality and depth as well as stability. So our league performance us about on par for me. Europe has been outstanding with some top notch performances and results. We got robbed in the LC final, literally cheated, otherwise we would probably already have first trophy of the season. SC was a mare, no dressing it up, but these results happen.

Performances have improved since start of season and when we have had a full squad we have played some good stuff.

Overall though after 3 managerial changes in 3 years without the instant success we are all looking for I 100% think it's now that we need to let a manager build something.

8.) 18 Feb 2025
18 Feb 2025 12:30:20
Not defending Clement, I can see both sides of the argument, but would any manager get us competing for the title with the squad we currently have . Alright 13 points is a long way behind but we are comfortably in second and under previous managers before Gerrard started getting some backing, we were fighting for third never mind second. He's proved last season when he clawed back an 8 points gap and in Europe that he can do the job but he had the rug pulled out from under him in the summer and we were left scrambling for players which I think accounts for our poor start where we blew too many points . Its also taken some of the new players far too long to figure out what's needed away from home in this country and that draws aren't good results for our club . Clement takes a share of the blame but there are others, who will still be there if he gets the sack, who are also culpable.

9.) 18 Feb 2025
18 Feb 2025 12:38:33
No myth we have no money basil, players signed from Arbio Bassey Paterson monies, potless now, the reason we can't get the players we want, need to hope Koppen has got more untapped potential lined up, we also need experience hopefully that happens in the summer.

10.) 18 Feb 2025
18 Feb 2025 12:41:16
It's 13 btw.

11.) 18 Feb 2025
18 Feb 2025 12:47:26
Good post Kaiser.

Before I get to what I think PCs done well, I think the biggest issue facing the club and fans at the moment is expectation.

As Rangers fans we expect to be competing for titles, and the board will never openly say otherwise, however the reality is that as a club we aren't on a position to be competitive YET.

What PC has done well.

Overseen a massive overhaul of the application of sports science.

Overseen a massive overhaul in player integration and recovery.

Revised the pathway programme for youth to first team- starting to see this.

Implemented a new playing style - yet to be fully embedded.

Improved / developed a number of players.

12.) 18 Feb 2025
18 Feb 2025 13:08:17
Ehl I'm happy with clement. I don't expect to win the league next year with the money Celtic are spending but I do expect a cup or 2 and I expect to be more competitive in the league challenge which right now I feel we're not as we should be.

13.) 18 Feb 2025
18 Feb 2025 13:13:50
But Basil Clement isn't responsible for buying players so given that logic we should sack Koppen and keep Clement if he has to work with such poor players. He can only work with the tools he has been given.
Could a pro golfer win against McElroy if he had a set of Spalding clubs.
he also wasn't here when the latter 4 were bought and Cortes arrived as well before he came I think.

14.) 18 Feb 2025
18 Feb 2025 13:36:11
I think that's a fair question Tommy. Tho I don't get the who else is out there. If he'd left for Belgium or if he decides to leave in the summer do we throw our hands up and give up? Who would have see moyes transforming Everton into a scoring team. Up here Steve Clarke had Killie being the form team over a calendar year at one point. I think he's been too rigid and struggle with the same problems. Perhaps whenever new one comes they will be more flexible with tactics or have a way of breaking teams down. Who that is is above my knowledge and paygrade but there plenty of managers with different ideas that could work.

15.) 18 Feb 2025
18 Feb 2025 13:36:36
1.He took a team under gio that was massively under performing and went on an excellent run giving us hope again only to run out of steam.
2.He won a cup, wether people give him credit or not he was manager when we lifted it.
3.He's got rid of most of the high earners, that we all so badly wanted.
4.We've added value to our squad.
5.Getting the best out of nico igamane soutter dessers cerny dio, it needs to be more i know but it's a start
6.Proven he can beat Celtic comfortably.
7. Really good in europe
8. Showing youth he's willing to play them.
9. Lowered our wage bill.

Excellent question Tommy gunn. Good post.

16.) 18 Feb 2025
18 Feb 2025 13:44:55
I know its 13 but I mean over the season if we end up 15 points behind Celtic it would be about right in terms of where we are at as a club. Expecting to match them this year, especially with thier levels of consistency is just not on for me.

Thats one of our problems like EHL says, expectations exceed reality at this time.

Our only hope of competing is to buy these young potential players and that they develop the levels of consistency needed over 2 or 3 seasons, while selling some off to fund future players at a more advanced stage of development. While this does not bring immediate success I actually enjoy watching young players develop over the experienced English Championship players we have been picking up on big wages.

Problem we have is it's a pretty toxic place to play when we are not competing. Look at the fans take on Jefte, 20 yo playing first time in league, makes a couple of mistakes and is getting pelters from fans even though overall his performances have been very good.

17.) 18 Feb 2025
18 Feb 2025 13:45:23
You are correct basil we did have a bigger budget than them up until this season, we had to slash that by 30% mate show me any buisness that can slash there budget by that and not have problems trying to find it's way again, especially in football.

18.) 18 Feb 2025
18 Feb 2025 13:51:13
Good post Kasier.

We have been rebuilding every year since SG left because we haven't got the correct manager in and I think we still don't. PC had done good things like Europe and home form. I just believe we will never win a league with him. That's just my opinion.
We haven't got a style of football with him.

19.) 18 Feb 2025
18 Feb 2025 14:23:26
Thanks for the positive response to discussion. EHL u obviously see more behind the scenes, do you feel he's starting to get him messages across more than we've seen then and will we be able to adapt better and avoid struggling as often with the same problems in the future?

20.) 18 Feb 2025
18 Feb 2025 14:35:15
This is without doubt the best thread I've read on here in months. No sniping, just good intelligent opinions from both sides who have the same end goal when it comes down to it. Great initial question Kaiser and brilliant initial response from Angus and then further down from EHL. I think the European results overall give me confidence that the guy knows what he's doing and when he had a few bad results, the momentum started that he's constantly battling. Love you see him get a good run of big victories to see how the team confidence builds.

21.) 18 Feb 2025
18 Feb 2025 14:47:23
I accept some of the points being made regarding progress and maybe its my lack of understanding of the roles and responsibilities within the club. But things like Sports Science, Recovery, adding value (players) to the squad, lowering the wage bill etc are these not things that Koppen and other departments are responsible for?
I understand Clement will have an input on player pathways etc but I'm pretty sure Koppen and Patrick Stewart stated that they made the signings for the club, not the manager?
Clement previously said that the sports scientists were the reason certain players couldn't play games, a decision/ guidance made for him?

Expectations are a fair point but having the same away record as Dundee United and being dumped out of the cup by Queens Park is something I'm not willing to accept. Especially given the fact the manager often likes to raise the budgets argument to make his points when it suits him. He was happy to raise the number of shots we had against QP as a reason we should have one, he certainly wouldn't accept that argument for Hearts at the weekend. Unfortunately he has no credit in the bank for many fans.

22.) 18 Feb 2025
18 Feb 2025 14:59:40
So we've to trust the rebuild.
With some already saying they don't expect us to win the league next year.
So say we don't win the league 25/ 26 season but sell Raskin, Igamane and Jetfe.
Do we trust Clement to win the league the following season? Because plenty said he failed at Monaco because he had to sell his best players.
Or will this be classed as another rebuild? And on and on the cycle continues. ?‍♂️.

23.) 18 Feb 2025
18 Feb 2025 15:10:21
Appreciate your response Kaiser, I think it's inevitable that PC will get the sack if I am honest. Think fan pressure will get too much and will end up untenable.

When that happens I hope your right and someone can come in that does have a way to get consistency that we need. Going to be a big task to be honest.

24.) 18 Feb 2025
18 Feb 2025 15:14:39
Thanks Bazbear some good response for decent discussion. I much prefer a fair exchange of opinions rather than just saying clueless or blind depending the side of debate. Hopefully I can learn something too. Europe has been great for a few years but for some reason have been unable to transfer that to domestic gamed. Boyblue like Trublue says a number of your points aren't his job tho he does have to work with what he's been given.

25.) 18 Feb 2025
18 Feb 2025 15:19:46
Boyblue I really hope he continues with belief in youth and it's not just been stop gaps due to necessity. Hardly any against QP and Lawrence back in on Sunday concerns me slightly but seeing some of the kids is one thing I've wanted for a long time rather than some of the journey men we've had.

26.) 18 Feb 2025
18 Feb 2025 15:20:53
To be fair to both philippe clement and nils koppen, i think both know what they're doing and good in their respective fields ?Whether this eventually works out for them in scottish football is another thing but i think/ hope it can given time ?I still think we have good players within our squad at Rangers and in another 2 transfer windows i expect to see significant improvement ?.

27.) 18 Feb 2025
18 Feb 2025 15:22:57
Trueblue it's all been done under his stewardship wich ultimately affects his job in many ways, or does it nit? We aren't saying he was physically on the phone selling players etc, think you know exactly what we mean.

28.) 18 Feb 2025
18 Feb 2025 15:28:27
The problem I have is that we rewarded Clement with an extended contract to 2027, when he had proved absolutely nothing. I honestly believe that we are hanging on by our finger tips from going under. I said in a post the other day, I do not see any plan which is going to put us on an even keel, yes, we've slashed the wage bill, but, in my opinion no real savings will be made, as we will have to replace those we sold, but if we want better, it's probably going to cost us more in the long run, final question folks, do we have 'A Long Run'.

29.) 18 Feb 2025
18 Feb 2025 15:35:59
Hi Stevie. Can I ask why you are happy with Phil if you don't expect to win the league next year? The way I look at it is, if we don't expect to win the league then Phil is not the man for the job.

30.) 18 Feb 2025
18 Feb 2025 15:50:32
Storm I think the issue is the background stuff in the club was wrong so whoever is the manager is going to struggle to be successful under those circumstances.

MPH he took Monaco to 3rd place in his first season which was seen as successful. they then sold 5-6 players at a huge profit and bought 3 I think at a much lower cost. even then he had them 2nd until the last 7 games when they lost 5 of them and finished 6. With 3 times the spending the next summer the new manager got them back into top 2 and now sit 4th with 12 games to go so actually worse than Clement in a way at this point. Unsuccessful I guess but it is about perspective. 6th kept them out of Europe which was all they cared about.

oh and BTW Dundee Utd have played 1 more game away from home and lost that extra game so they down have the sae record. stop just believing what you read in the press who know how the OF fans react and press the buttons.

31.) 18 Feb 2025
18 Feb 2025 16:12:37
Irvger simple accounting is the answer initially, i. e. we sell a player on £2 million per year and replace them with one on £500k so save £1.5 million per year per player. those are real bottomline savings. develop even 40% of those players to sell at double the price allows us to then take that 100% straight profit. Buy another player at around same price and you still have that 100% profit less the amount left due to the other club. sell for more and more profit obviously. so yes we have a long run. the idea would eventually be to keep core of squad and sell one or two each year at bigger profits at the right time.

Re his contract I think they gave him that so he would stay to work through the agreed process that we are going through; possibly saw enough from last season to show he was a decent manager and as the background noise improves he will be able to perform more effectively.

32.) 18 Feb 2025
18 Feb 2025 16:23:07
Angus he bought 3 players in also at Monaco for 45 million so it's not just fair to say he sold 5/ 6 of his best players and it was you that was on about manipulating stats and facts etc…. You are doing with his time at Monaco. Every club sells players it's up to the manager to make do with what he has.

33.) 18 Feb 2025
18 Feb 2025 16:23:07
Angus, Phil has spent the guts of 15 million, how would background stuff have an impact on our ability to perform on the park when we've spent huge money on players?

34.) 18 Feb 2025
18 Feb 2025 16:24:09
Never tried the full post Angus my apologies.

He got sacked at Monaco for not doing a good job Angus. Stop making excuses.

35.) 18 Feb 2025
18 Feb 2025 16:28:51
Valid Point Angus but that extra away game that Dundee united have played was against Celtic. They've played them away twice, we've played them once. Worth taking into consideration.

Boy Blue - my understanding was Sport Science and Medical staff took care of Recovery, training capacity, diets etc.
Koppen and recruitment team identified and signed the players. Those that left the club would not have solely been down to Clement.

His main responsibility I believed was to coach the team and get adequate results. Something I and many others feel he has been below par with. Not my opinion that matters though, its the boards.

36.) 18 Feb 2025
18 Feb 2025 16:58:23
I'm struggling to see any progress we've made on the pitch.
Tactics, subs and formations haven't been good enough at times.

37.) 18 Feb 2025
18 Feb 2025 17:24:49
And that's the crux of the matter, and you are spot on Mark44.
Forget excuse after excuse.
What's on offer on the park tells the story.

38.) 18 Feb 2025
18 Feb 2025 17:30:21
3 out of the 6 players that were sold at Monaco went for the majority of the money. The others were squad players.
3 players were brought in for $45 million.
You are blaming this for his downfall at Monaco, Angus.
So I'll ask you this question:-
What makes you think Rangers could sell Jefte, Raskin, Igamane and 3 A. N. Other squad players and Clement would be the man to take us forward by bringing in 3 replacements on half what we earned and not capitulate like he did at Monaco?
Because I'm not seeing it.

39.) 18 Feb 2025
18 Feb 2025 17:44:20
Storm they sold 8 players for £150k million including Tchouameni, Badiashvile, Dior and Pavlovic and they spent about £40 million that year, £80 million the year after and £85 million this year. so lost 8, 3 permanent in and a few loans and expect the same result.
I think that in France finishing third was a success and perhaps he finished 6th next season but he was 2nd until the end. I am not manipulating stats I am stating them but explaining the info around them.
once a ger Rangers spend £15million Celtic spend £40 million.

40.) 18 Feb 2025
18 Feb 2025 18:20:31
Angus, thank you for your response, I am from a Financial background during my working life, and as such your point is valid, however, what sort of quality of player are you going to get for 25% of the savings made, I think we will stand still mate and not show any improvement on the field. It's a vicious circle, we will continue to fund failure at what eventual cost if our fans lose patience completely. I really do hope your plan works, but, I'm sorry, it's like a major car dealer selling Jaguars and replacing them with Lada's the working capital from the initial sales would diminish rapidly due to a much less resale value.

{Ed001's Note - if you come from a financial background, you should surely know that a car dealer buys the Jaguars at a lower price from the manufacturer, then sells them at a mark up. So they wouldn't be replacing them with Ladas at all. They would continue to replace them with Jaguars sourced from the manufacturer.}

41.) 18 Feb 2025
18 Feb 2025 18:40:36
You are Angus. You are making excuses for him to suit your argument. All managers have things like this when they go into next jobs or while they have been there for a while, it's how the deal with it and he didn't deal with it well at Monaco.

Great post mph

I agree with you mark in the league only great performance was Celtic this season they may have been one or two more I just can't remember. The majority have been poor.

Pc press conferences get worse by the week also the utter bs that comes out his mouth is embarrassing and makes the club a laughing stock.
I just don't know how others don't see this.

42.) 18 Feb 2025
18 Feb 2025 18:50:36
Kaiser, that's a tough question to answer.

From what I see everyone is bought in to the principles and philosophy, however there is a lot of frustration as it's just that at the moment - a philosophy.

We can't play the high line we want to as we don't have pace in the backline.

We don't have the options to play with the pace and width we want up front.

We don't have the link players in the 6 and the 9 to pull it all together.

The way we're lining up at the moment is a bit of a patch work quilt.

I'll say it again though, as much as I feel for PC, there are elements that I'd have hoped he'd have found solutions for by now.

43.) 18 Feb 2025
18 Feb 2025 19:12:41
MPH I don't know he can but he possibly learnt from any mistakes he did make at Monaco. I just happen to be willing to give him some time. I think he may be sacked as our fans have no patience and the board will buckle. I hope the new man comes in and is someone who is able to work with the same going on in the background and no funds to replace. I have normally argued the process won't change whoever is there.

storm so I suit my reasoning to suit my argument. is that not what people do. one question is it the results or the performances which are important. just interested as it is said on here regularly it is a results business so 3 good performances yet 17 good results assuming wins are that.
just don't watch his press conferences then. / it is the big red button on your remote which switches it off.

I don't want to get into the same adversarial crap there was the other week and let's just accept we have different opinions I imagine on everything there is in life.

44.) 18 Feb 2025
18 Feb 2025 19:18:20
Ed, you are probably correct, I was just making a comparison with the type or quality of player we could get by spending 25% of the Income from selling star players. I do agree in reality that wouldn't happen.

{Ed001's Note - well that's the idea of the scouting system, you are looking to buy young players before they have made their names and increased their value. Plenty of clubs work this way around Europe.}

45.) 18 Feb 2025
18 Feb 2025 19:30:54
Thank you Ed for your responses.

{Ed001's Note - oh no need to thank me irv, I was just pointing it out. My grandad used to have the distribution rights for Skodas and Ladas many years ago, he also did sell Jaguars and other cars too. It just seemed an odd comparison.}

46.) 18 Feb 2025
18 Feb 2025 19:45:19
Kaiser I was honestly thinking the same thing while I was writing my post re youth, I really hope it wasn't a stop gap mate and don't believe it was. Imo he went with lawrence for experience on Sunday, as it was unthinkable to lose that game after Queens, we need to remember that he sees them all week in training aswell. Good thread you started bud ?.

47.) 18 Feb 2025
18 Feb 2025 19:58:39
Thanks for your input EHL. I think that's a big part of peoples problem with PC is he has a philosophy but without the players to suit so it can seem disjointed. I think that's a fair assessment. ??.

48.) 18 Feb 2025
18 Feb 2025 20:26:20
Well Kaiser, it was a great debate but once again turned to an adversarial slanging match ??.

49.) 18 Feb 2025
18 Feb 2025 20:59:08
Angus see when you can't win any trophies and out of the league all by feb. (Europa we won't win)
Then it's about performances as well as 3 points.
Why would you bring up last week when everyone is having a heathy debate? Bit strange that. Also if you don't want it to go back stop making excuses.
It's obviously not results drive Going by our board as he would have been sacked long ago. He certainly wouldn't have made it by Queen's Park result either.
If I could see a style of play and had faith in him I would be willing to back him but don't see any of that and don't understand how others can see something in him and the people backing him certainly don't listen to his press conferences as they are making us a laughing stock.

50.) 18 Feb 2025
18 Feb 2025 21:52:03
Baz yes Enjoyed the good healthy discussions and without fallouts even with Storm involved, eh mate?. And no problem Angus giving a gentle reminder to keep it that way. Thanks everyone for the opinions.