Rangers Rumours Archive May 23 2012

23 May 2012 23:44:35
Well after tonights revelations there is no doubt in my mind that we are in s**t creek with a paper paddle. Murray should be jailed if these accusations are true as it was his company (MIH) that applied these EBTs but it is our club who will bare the brunt of it. Duff and duffer need to go now and I read in another post that the RFFF should be used to pay for legal representation to get shot of them.Well then there is the sheister whyte, well what a rite del boy he turned out to be, what I would like to know, does all the players and staff who were paid through these ebts do they get chased for not paying tax. I like every other gers fan is now scunnered with it, the big tax case was meant to have been finished and announcement was meant to happen in March, duff and dumber have played a blinder earning their company probably over £2m in fees that should be returned for the benefit of the creditors. I have rabbled on enough so lets hope this all gets sorted as we need to know if we have a team to support and also news on season ticket renewals would be good.
andygers74

Yes. Scunnered is the word we've all been looking for. Great old Scottish word.

The players dont get chased because that was the double contract one for the club and another saying it was part of their salary and didnt have to be paid back thats the part that makes them illegal because if its in a contract then its not a loan

If it's in their contract then they should be chased for earning wages they did not pay tax on. They may not have broken the letter of the law but they certainly have broken the spirit of it! - Jaxie

The thing is if there are supposedly double contracts and the players new and signed these then surley both the club and player is at fault and the one receiving the FREE MONEY should be accounted for not the club. ieplayer pays back the tax and ni and Rangers pay any pentaltes implyed for using such a scheme.

I know if i took a job on the side and the company new i was signing on then both me and the company would be at fault.

Surley this is the same as taking tax free money as a wage?

Its really tough being a bluenose lately vast silent majority are stunned in to silence with whats going on ! fear not my fellow blue noses always remember the night is always darkest before dawn, there appears to be a dark forces abroad in scotland on this subject. off that there is no doubt ! the good news these forces are now now emerging from the night and we are seing their agenda quite clearly ! never the less there are those who have used our club as no more than an ego trip, lets get real, we were never more than a wholly owned subsiduary of a global steel magnates empire, good ego trip for some tho ! we pay the price ! our pain will one day be others, and let those who s club are without the tinge of other s corporate play toys be mindful of what they prey ! our demise ! never !

23 May 2012 21:57:53
Third time trying to post . . . come on Ed. let the People make they're own minds up please?
Holding company for RFC owns Eildon Square, Trafford Centre, etc, etc - do you know of any prime site real estate, near a motorway off ramp going for a song ?
How could you frighten off serious bidders & keep the asking price falling ??

Sane Bear

What another shopping complex right next to the city, Braehead and Silverburn , dream on

Next time your in glasgow open your eyes.

the city centre is slowly dying.

planning permission for a fifth out of town shopping centre 2 miles from braehead and silverburn?

dont be daft

Yeah right - out of town complexes are dead and buried . . . Trouble is Ibrox ain't out of town
Capital Shopping Centres Group PLC
03685527
Holding company for Liberty Capital too

23 May 2012 21:26:34
I don't even feel anger now after seeing things laid bare tonight on BBC. Yes the business world is always murky but the mark has been way overstepped and deceit continues even to this day at Rangers.

I've been going since 1983, when I was six. I don't know where the hell my club and our club is going right now. As painful as it would be maybe it's just time to finish up, too many lies, too much improper conduct for a club that means so much to the people who adore it.

Truly saddened and I feel pretty soon with SPL, HMRC and any other rulings that evolve that it may go too far to reverse and there won't be a Rangers to love.

Game over now. The great club will be nuked by
6th June. A total and utter bunch of con men and cheats. Love my club to the end but ashamed of it after this BBC demolition job....

After watching tonights show I have to say nothing really came as a shock as we have all known fro a while now. I'm a Celtic fan and I'm not going to stick the boot in because what they have done to your club is a disgrace and should be jailed they have let uz all down and hung out to dry. If I had to put myself into ur shoes I would be distraught so that is why I'm not going to stick the boot in. DISGRACE
Conor67

At last some sense and realisation

Appreciate the kind words from a Celtic fan cheers

Motherwell fan, totally agree with Conor67. Now is the time for the Rangers fans to get together and re-invent the club. Get rid of the conmen. AFC Wimbledon have done it and with a bit of success with limited resources. Rangers could pull it off as long as everyone keeps the head and accepts it will take time and support from all of Scottish football.

Time to get Uefa envolved, lets see what they make of the unlawful contracts that you had with players, Management and Officials of the Club that went on to hold positions within the SFL.

Will SuperRanger Barry Ferguson donate £2.5m to the RFF

If Rangers go out of business every SPL fan should full there stadiums in the 1st game of next season to show support for the Rangers fans who have been conned by, don't know if criminals would be the right word. If the fans get together surely they could fund a team to start in Div 3. Every Scottish football fan should support them if they choose to do this. Good luck Bears you deserve some after what you's have been through since Feb 14th through no fault of your own. Drop Jardine and the haters of all not Rangers. Every genuine football fan wants Rangers to survive.

I agree with Motherwell fan. take your club back, i suspect this guy green is just another of the same ilk. The only way you can be sure of having your club in the future is to split from them now start at whatever level you can. A nice bonus of this is it means whatever they possess, stadium Murray park etc will be worthless without a team

HMRC have got to get dumb & dumber out of Ibrox and appoint proper admins, these guys are a joke and are killing ur club.
Conor67

What do you think UEFA will have to say about the sfa having people employed that knew about it but did not say a doubt they would be happy with that either so I'd watch what you wish for because it could mean a ban from Europe for all Scottish teams

Hopefully the courts or someone relise the shambles n remove the administrators

You get what you deserve in life
You take the rough with the smooth
You lot have enjoyed the smooth for 20 years - through cheating
Get used to the rough - hopefully for the next 20 years
Dundee fan

23 May 2012 21:13:51
Get diff & phelps out to f**k I now want hmrc to step in and remove Andy & dandy and put their own administration in places us as loyal fans have been duped not sir dingdong I hate home for what he has done to my club and hope he rots in hell along with the rest of the crooks that have brought us to the brink Murray knew exactly what he was doing and what kind of total bellend he was selling the club to.

Tj

23 May 2012 21:11:49
Duff and Phelps, administrators of Rangers Football Club, issued the following statement tonight.

Paul Clark, joint administrator, said: "The use of EBTs at Rangers goes back many years and was a matter of public record in the annual accounts. Our primary focus has been ensuring the survival of Rangers Football Club and attracting a new buyer for the business as well as investigating the financial situation at the Club since the takeover in May 2011."

"We and the Club will continue to give every assistance to the football authorities on issues affecting the Club. It should, however, be noted that the First Tier Tax tribunal has yet to publish its findings in relation to the use of EBTs."

Hopefully when the disgraced Duff and Phelps are booted off as administrators the money that our club was due to pay them can instead go to better uses. BB

Deflection from the allegation facing them regarding the Ticketus loan funding the takeover...... Comment about that D&P not about EBTs.

Its at times like these that i am glad that i pay my licence fee to see some honest investigative journalism and not listen and read the tripe that the laptop loyal would have you believe. Maybe now you will open your eyes and realise that once everybody connected to scottish football watches this BBC programme then you will be cast aside like yesterdays rubbish. HMRC result a formality, Murray will be stripped of his nighthood and then we will watch the titles and trophies disappear before the whole house comes tumbling down. It was fun while it lasted but here's to an honest AND legal ten in a row.
Rangers till July

Its not as bad as it looks - if all the EBT people pay back the 'loans' sharpish there will be enough money to pay off all the creditors and still have some left over.
Bears, its time to start knocking on a few doors.

Interesting thought (EBTers paying back the cash), but the players and Murray (kind of) received their money in good faith. It's Rangers who are liable for the tax.

If d@ p go hmrc will name their admin which will mean they will let all players go and use the money properly . good luck to them.

Aye right. Barry Ferguson will be chapping at the door to hand his 2.5 million back. Get real, that's gone along with every other asset RFC(IA) has.

Utterly shameful from the beginning....Murray bought the club with £6m debt from BOS and over the years ramped it up to £80m debt whilst also running offshore tax scams. Getting their salaries paid tax free from offshore whilst 111 of them worked in Glasgow. Last time I checked Glasgow wasn't the capital of Jersey.

"sir" Dave is nearly a billion in debt Cannae see him paying back his 6 million , its bye bye time Gers we are f***ed

Frustrated bear

Thought admin's primary objective was to get as much as possible for creditors not to save company

23 May 2012 20:40:04
Mark Daly's programme. I hope every fan in Scotland is watching. This is seriously explosive stuff.It's even worse than everyone thought.This should now finally be the end of this alledged corrupt organisation.Look at the names being rolled out on this programme.Makes you wonder how far back the cheating goes.They should be stripped of titles for last 25 years since Murray was involved.No more 9 in a row. We should have known the only way they could match us was to cheat. Thank goodness they couldn't cheat their way to the European Cup (although you now start to wonder about that 1992/93 season).Lets keep watching. 1) The growth of the debt became wreckless gambling but Murray thought the risks were worth taking. 2) In 2004 they owed the bank more than £70m (whhhaaaat). 3) Graeme Speirs can't believe the financial vandalism. 4) Speirs was banished by Murray 5) Murray tried to raise £50m from the rangers fans but only raised £1m (oh dear)
by the way i'm typing verbatim 6) We've asked you to look at rangers/murrays accounts. "All the evidence i've seen is that all the money that's been invested in rangers has come directly or indirectly by the bank (and there is a key piece of information). I need to post now as I can't keep up with these revalations, but will start a new post.

Ok so what have we learned.

Bank of Scotland funded the Rangers glory years, not David Murray(no even gonna prefix his name with Sir).

BBC showed NO EVIDENCE of side letter, emails...nothing. nada.

No hard proof of anything illegal was shown

Duff and Phelps most probably involved in the Ticketus deal.

Class mate long may it continue but u know the DR tomrw will mention nothing as usual...for all the unhappy bears out there come to the light all welcome

Are you from Mars? Everything has been known about or are you just a bitter visitor taking the piss?

LMAO STRIPPED OF EVERYTHING FOR 25 YEARS?


Yer insane man, nothing illegal in lending from a bank, it was the bank who bought Rangers glory years.

GIRFUY

All this BBC stuff makes one wonder about the Alania Vladikavkaze match way back in the 90s when Rangers won 7-2.

Graeme Spiers is a total a**ehole! Why do the media continue to give this guy a platform to spread his pish!

The guy is a w**ker!

Go back to your own pages and moan about this, strip rangers for 25 years?? Pathetic excuse, just admit your team wasn't good enough ebts were used 2001 until 2010.. 9 in a row was well before then. Another celtic supporter jumping the gun as per

The so called cheating not proven yet was from 2000 so doesnt effect 9 in a row lol

Lol get a grip man Aberdeen and Dundee Utd where dominating scottish football when murray took over. celtic like rangers irrelavent at this point. 9 in a row is safe for a start as first ebt was 2001 by look of it.

Everybody knew Rangers owed the bank money back in 2004, the majority of that money was paid back between then and 2011. That doesn't result in the stripping of titles or to be called cheats. Every club in Britain borrows money from the bank mainly in the form of overdrafts.

Tonights show only highlighted the possibility of dual contracts but, even Mark Daly wasn't 100% positive if what Rangers had done was wrong regarding the dual contracts. The BTC still ongoing.....if HMRC had a strong case then why is this tribunal still ongoing??

TTG

You're clearly making an assumption that you're the only person in Scotland with a telly ,but everbody else only has internet access...while your on tinternet try Googling "rumour" for a definition .

Spiers also thought murray was DUPED!!!!! yeah right

Yeah thats right , get into him, for telling the truth, its guys like you who have supported the money men who sold the jerseys for years, and thats why we are in the mess we are in. Stop for a minute and think, it would not have been broadcast if there was any chance that none of it was true, so please as loyal supporters stop lashing out in anger, just because it might be true, instead start asking for a judicial enquiry to be set up to investigate all the facts, by emailing your MSP and MP, start today if you are a real supportere and lets get this all out in the open

Graham spiers half man half hamster

What about vladikavkas? So rangers were not capable of winning any match heavily? Have you just picked the biggest euro win you could think of and decided it must be suspect?

So now its the banks fault?Def no mintys?9 in a row safe?mmm..unless i,m mistaken souness had ebt right when did he join again?And another bit of factual evidence..why does daily record no think yer club goin up before the Court of arbitration for Sport no serious enough to print?

Sorry Ed, but I can only take so much of this rubbish and have replied in kind. I have a feeling this one may not appear on the page later but it didn't half release some anger writing it. ;-)

"Yeah thats, right, get into him, for telling the truth...."

I would imagine if the unnamed wind up merchant who wrote the original post was actually telling the truth then he would be receiving less hostile replies. My reply is suitably ludicrous in return. Like you I am unhappy with the goings on and want answers but this joker certainly isn't supplying any and deserves all he is getting. Let me make it clear: I am in no way an apologist for Murray or the man with a thousand faces but lets not get carried away on the back of conjecture.

Which parts of his post were true? Stripping of titles for past twenty five years because Murray financed the club via the bank? What an uneducated, naive statement that is to make. Man Utd, the richest club in the world, are half a billion pounds in debt. I shall type that again in bold just in case you missed it op: MAN UTD ARE HALF A BILLION POUNDS IN DEBT. "Whaaaaat!" I hear you say just before you hit the floor from passing out in disgust. Guess they better hand back every title they have ever won and then some. Oh, by the way, (and I will whisper this one just in case you are still recovering from the shock - wouldn't want you to do yourself a further injury) this years title should be returned forthwith too as your own team are around £16m in debt. Shhh! How dare you buy a title like that you cheating so and so's ;-) That is how nonsensical that argument is to make. The vast majority of clubs operate with high levels of debt or substantial overdrafts and always have done. Rangers are no different in that regard and it only became a problem for us when Whyte could not continue to service the debt even when it was sitting at the lowest figure it had been in years and was comparable to Celtic's current debt level. It was still serviceable, unfortunately Whyte clearly had no intention of paying for it or anything else for that matter. Up until the year 2000 no titles are under threat and nor should they be.

Others have highlighted where the op has gone wrong in his outrageous assumptions regards the 9 in a row years and the European cup run of 92/93 so I shouldn't need to elaborate on those further other than to say the debt was continually serviced throughout those periods and his/her cigarettes have clearly been spiked.

The one area that obviously is highly relevant and a major concern, which the op didn't even mention BTW, is in relation to the ALLEGED illegal use of EBT's, the potential of side letters confirming it and the resultant illegal dual contracts used between the years 2000 and 2010 if this ALLEGED action did take place. However, until these investigations are concluded and the EVIDENCE is in front of us (which certainly wasn't shown tonight unless we were watching different programmes - I did pop out and make a cuppa at one point so feel free to correct me if I happened to miss the side letters being shown) he simply cannot be telling the truth. He is guessing and prejudging, simple as that.

I want it all out in the open too so we can move forward from here but agreeing with this poster isn't going to achieve that. Have you any idea how long a judicial enquiry would take to get off the ground and then conduct a full and thorough investigation? I admire your passion but we do not have at least two years to wait on the answers, lets just wait on the outcome of the outstanding cases first and deal with them one at a time over the next few months. If we are found guilty, particularly of dual contracts, then we should be hammered unmercifully for it and most of us would probably accept that. However, lets wait on the results first before becoming as excited as this.... How did Cameron put it today? Hmmm, that was it "blithering idiot". Sorry, I apologise. I will retract that statement and replace it with "truth teller" as the op clearly knows what he is talking about. Make up your own minds.

Brian

This post will probably never be posted which is your problem.

The fans need to step up to the mark, if they really are "The People" then the world expects better.

They were asked twice for cash to save the club:

Their idol SDM asked for cash and got 1 million at which point he had to borrow 49 million against one of his other companies to fund RFC.

After this and with liquidation looming the club asked for help and the RFF helped out by raising 0.5 million which the club have now decided to use on the playing surface at Ibrox.

Measure this against the Celtic floatation which raised 14.5 million, the largest investment ever by fans in a football club world wide.

Try to use this as a spur for your fans.

What about the 30K to Souness

The 30k to Souness was paid by the looks of it just days before Tugay Kerimoglu's transfer from Rangers to Blackburn in 2001 when Souness was Blackburn manager.
As pointed out by everyone previously NO EBT's during the 90's! 9 in a row is quite safe.....however Adcocaat's reckless spending might not be....

The Aberdeen/Dundee utd thing is a misrepresentation of the facts. In truth Celtic won 4 titles in the 80s as did Aberdeen. Utd won 1. Celtic fininshed second to both A'deen and Utsd when they won their titles - a close second. Rangers were mid table non runners. Cutting Celtic out of the 80's picture is a convenient myth that has been perpetrated for years. credit rightly goes in the main to the Dons and to utd - their achievements are far more substantial given their resourses. However to be factual, Celtic were highly competitive.

23 May 2012 19:56:18
There's a lot of rumours going around that there's extra security at ibrox tonight, is there any truth in this?

For god sake, You have clearly copied that, that same message has been coming up every week!

I guess we know now after tonights revelations....

A little bird told me they are there to guard the grass seed. Increased security is a scarecrow on the penalty sport with one of Wattie Smith's cardigans stuffed with fake receipts from Whyte's expense claims.

23 May 2012 18:43:53
BBC News, EBT payments of £6.5 million paid to Rangers owner Sir David Murray & £2.5 million paid to Rangers Captain Barry Ferguson.

23 May 2012 18:03:01
Fellows bears if the rumours are true the panorama program will make Rangers so toxic everybody who wants to save the club will walk away and it will only be the vultures left to pick at the carcass

Frustrated bear

Vultures already there.

53 EBT's in place, Barry Ferguson got 2.5M. He was not properly registered to play in any games as a result!

This panorama show is only going to tell us what we already know.

Don't believe what the Tims are saying, there will be nothing in this about double contracts or phone hacking, it is all scaremongering.....

TTG

After the piece on Reporting Scotland this evening, it looks like RFC(IA) have seriously had their chips and will be RFC(RIP) by tomorrow. The Courts are going to be busy for a while.

Less than an hour to D-Day, folks. Get the Irn Bru in.

The only ones who will touch the club will be the police in the morning

Quite a list of staff already named as having EBTs but not Walter and Ally.

This is looking as bad as expected. BB

Just saw the program.
Stated Souness , Eck and Walter were on the EBT

Lol,it was old old news that everyone knew anyway , nothing new to report so it can only get better bears.

Get a grip everyone knew rangers used EBTs.They declared it to the taxman.They told the mighty SPL they were using them.What still has to be determined is did they use them correctly and if not how much tax is owed.Remember the outcome is not known yet.Like the big porn star said if it goes against its not his fault but if it goes in our favour he expects all rangers fans to thank him for single handidly saving rangers 50mil in tax.Makes me laugh just like all the suits at rangers when it goes wrong its not there fault.But if it turns out good we should all be greatful.Anyway so much for the phone hacking lol more paranoia and wishful thinking.Anyway on a simple note get dumb and dumber to f--k out of rangers another bunch of crooks.

The Souness revelation sounds really damaging. Not even a Rangers employee at the time! BB

23 May 2012 12:35:07
Ticketus said they will agree a CVA
deal with Rangers(source,the Sun)
and take what they get.

Aye very good they require full payment for their shareholders

Hector fan I think you have spent too much time in the Sun, if you believe a word that comic prints.

Ticketus are NOT now in the CVA pot...as they have already started proceedings against Whyte.
If they were, they would have waited to see what they got, then chased Whyte for the remainder via his PG, but they have taken action now, admitting that the 'WHOLE' debt is Whytes, not Rangers's.
Ticketus ''did not'' pay off the bank, Whyte did....whether he got the money from Ticketus or someone else is irrelevant, he paid the bank, not Ticketus, not Rangers.
You could argue that we owe Whyte the money, in fact we do, but Rangers DO NOT owe Ticketus, that's why they are chasing Whyte now, and not after any CVA has been agreed.
He got the money from them, he gave a Personal Guarantee to them for that money....he spent the money, not our problem.

HMRC are the only ones who will decide if its a CVA or not.

Rubbish, of course Ticketus owed the money by RFC. The contract was between RFC and Ticketus, CW provided guarantees. Ticketus will be in CVA and chase CW for any shortfall.

Ticket us not in the pot.
Hector fan please keep up with the pace....ticketus are still part of your problems..... read all the other posts relevant to the admin rules.....

It is our problem whyte has floating charge on ibrox, murray park,& albion car park. he can call rangers for payment or take ownership of the three as he has moved them to his own company where his dad is the sole shareholder - as the cqn website says theres only one player in town & that's whyte.

Finding this story curious,either ticketus are a creditor of rangers,or craig whyte.surely they cant accept a cva,and then sue craig whyte ??

I think now that a CVA will be the least of our problems.

Yes CVA will only deliver a few pence in pound to Ticketus and they will go after CW for difference. Then CW will be a creditor for the money he has to pay Ticketus amend of day Lloyds were paid off and either way that 18m will be in the CVA

Ticketus are part of this great circle of deceit. It's harder to get a provie check than it was for whyte to get that dosh. Massive scam unravelling.

There will be NO CVA, Ticketus WON'T be walking away and HMRC WON'T be accepting a pence in the pound deal...not only has SDM sold Rangers down the swanee, the media (Daily Record etc) have been spinning you along for months, war-chests, zillionaires, everythings a bed of frigging roses stories, when are you people going to wake up??????

23 May 2012 08:31:31
Hey bears, wat happens IF we go newco but the transfer embargo carries on in relation to players contracts? Do the players need to be registered with the SFA/SPL again therefore meaning only under 18's can be carried over? Does the player contracts just pass on and require no registration? Edd wat you think? Also the club looking at players means the newco route will most likely happen? Anyway back to work today :( CheltBlue {Ed014's Note - Players already under contract or registered by the club don't count.

If it's a Newco

Rangers have ''NO'' players at all.

A New Company will have to have a board of Directors who sign the players new contracts on headed notepaper of the new company.
Players contracts expire on liquidation of Rangers 1899. The players union has stated this.

Unfortunately it's true. If NEWCO then all current player contracts are null and void. They can if they wish move to the NEWCO under a new contract , if not they are free to negotiate deals with any club.

Whe a club liqudates all players become the property of the SFA

According to Mr Wishart if there is a new co then the players can walk away from contracts.