Rangers Rumours Archive March 29 2012

 

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29 Mar 2012 23:23:30

Lorenzo Amarusso fears loss of Rangers SPL titles.

Former Rangers Captain Lorenzo Amorusso Fears the Scottish Premier League will strip the club of titles.

He says regardless of contracts and payments the players worked hard and sweated and won the titles on the field.

Believable42 Unbelievable17

GUILTY.....b

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I sympathise with Lorenzo's comments about titles won on the field. However, he has to also accept that it appears some of those players who sweated for them might not have been there if Rangers had been playing by the rules.

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Hmmmm they should have been sweating elsewhere for their offshore tax free monies for working in Glasgow.

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If we ever get out of this mess, which looks more unlikely every day , I'm I the only one that thinks decent players won't touch us with a bargepole, even if the cah was there? Rapidly being seen international as a fly by night club:-(

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What rule is that... not getting into debt - tell Man Utd Chelsea etc.?

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Has Lorenzo been on the Bailey's again?

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That rule would be the cornerstone of the economy- paying the correct tax on income, jeezo, do you still not get this? Needed 2nd deceitful contract to pay what they wanted or they wouldn't have been there. Tore Andre Flo's transfer fee n wages would sort you lot right out just now, lol then ye have ball,Rosenthal,thern, Jonathan johannsen(45k a week). All major factors in the mismanagement of finances at ipox. Well before Whyte appeared too

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If HMRC cant get any monies due from Rangers FC they should go after the players who benefited from Rangers FC tax avoidance scheme - shame on them!!

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You've got to admit big Lorenzo talks a lot of sense. This former Rangers favourite seems to know RFC are going to be liquidated, as for sweating on the pitch, I think the RFC fans have done more sweating in the last month than big Amo and all his team mates ever did and all that with dodgy wages they got from RFC cheating the UK taxpayer!

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If the SPL decides Rangers won the titles unfairly then they can remove them. Fair.

Not fair on Lorenzo? He did a job and got paid for it. He has nothing to be ashamed of although his ego may be a little dented.

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Those guys never brOke sweat.
It was too easy for them here and they pretended it was honest.
They were highly paid mercenaries brought here to destroy home grown football using tax evasion and huge bank indebtedness as yet still unpaid and now being burdened upon Ticketus.

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29 Mar 2012 19:45:32
Has Rangers lost the big tax case?

Rumours today that Administrators and Murray using certain language.
Kennedy bid out.
Rumour in here from a guy who heard last night.
SFA postponing discipline case.
Walter Smith using LIQUIDATION term.
Court said result would be made end of March.

Is news being held back until after legends game? To not spoil the mood?

Believable36 Unbelievable35

Also Bain dropped his court case. Why?
Walter would not say liquidated before a feel good game to unsettle us. He is getting us prepared for bad news. :(((

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It doesn't matter if we lost it.
The 'master plan' has a course of action for every eventuality.
Bigger. Better. Stronger. 2012-13.

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Walter talked about liquidation on TV instead of talking up the legends game and Amorusso said he wasn't giving his medals back, what's that all about?

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When the wage cuts were being discussed....did D&F reduce their fee by 75%?

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Theres stil 4 offers on table if u leave out kennedy until all r off table theres no liquidation

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Do you honestly believe hmrc would hold back the verdict on a groundbreaking tax win because rangers are playing in a legends game! Too funny, get a grip and put your brain in gear.

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Medals and titles wouldn't be given back unless players were proven to be fielded illegally, so liquidation doesn't cause that but losing BTC means EBTs were illegal so yeah titles and medals at risk.
So losing BTC fits with Amorusso and medals issue, yeah.

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..Bull..Walter was saying he,d like to see Paul Murray in at Rangers..thinks he would be good for the club...the rest is total nonesense..the result of the tax case tribunal will not be decided untill after easter...and it will not be a case of win or lose...its a bit more complicated than that...stop all this hysteria
your making an arse of yourselves..

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Because he and you's cheated to win them dont you get it.....b

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Amarouso said if they r found guilty he was just saying if

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You can lose the BTC but it's not liquidation till the 4 left in the table propose how to deal with all the debt. But nobody left will deal with BTC size money.

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Maybe HMRC don't know yet maybe MIH who defended the case got a whisper from a typist at the high court. And Murray told D&P of Walter.

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No one knows what the outcome of the BTC untill the judgement has been made also what would they hold it back because of a legends game that means they cant announce it till end of season as we will have far more important games each sat/sun remember we might not loose this or only loose part of the case we didnt hide anything as far as im led to believe these ebt,s were signed off in annual accounts its just the way they were run maybe ed you could confim this anyway just wait and see the outcome no one knows enjoy the game tomorrow night make it special

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Forget the legends game line at the end of the post. But the rest might make sense if someone had some kind of inside knowledge at Rangers or Murray group

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Contrary to a few posts above -
The Big Tax Case is a win or lose.
If RFC win - HMRC can appeal
If HMRC win - RFC can appeal, with one HUGE difference....
All monies become immediately payable, pending the outcome of an RFC appeal.
Simply can't afford to lose it!

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"Do you honestly believe hmrc would hold back the verdict on a groundbreaking tax win because rangers are playing in a legends game! Too funny, get a grip and put your brain in gear."

Not that funny, John Terry's court case has been put back until after the Euro's

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Listen bears rangers could even win the tax case who knows

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Rangers have as much chance of winning tax case as Clyde have of winning champions league. Get real. Case lost. Only way is liquidation. And new co with yanks in charge. Who will screw us all over again

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29 Mar 2012 19:19:11
So whyte refuses to sell his shares to murray... Thats that gubbed then!

Wer is this wee rat hiding anyway? Our club is falling apart, wen the hell is this gonna end!?

Believable15 Unbelievable2

When will the doubters finally twig that CW is doing only good for the club. Albeit in a underhand sort of way. We won't have to pay back all those taxes because the money is all gone and will never return.

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What goods that when theyl be no club left after bumping everybody do you think theyl welcome us back with open arms ps. im going through that just now with hmrc for 17,000 had my business 38 years never been unemployed so does that make me a scrounger after 48.5 years of hard work doug

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If that is good in your eyes then you are despicable. Stiff the taxpayer for millions for the sake of a f***ing game? No wonder everyone hates the club.

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I'd rather go through some hard years and pay what we owe, If we start again I wont be back.

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Liquidation .........b

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Its about time Ranger were simply taken from Whyte. He is under investigation from HMRC, the Police, the SFA have ruled he is not fit and proper to own a football club. The guy paid nothing for the club so for him to say he wont sell to Murray is a complete joke! D&P should take this to court and get him removed from his position asap.

J

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And in the meantime the silence from sdm is deafening what about the proceeds of crime act give cw his 2 ten bob notes back and tell him to f off doug

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The fans dont want a knew rangers we dont want whyte anywhere near us get him out we need to try and pay what we owe no matter how long it takes

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Rangers fans need to be more active and noisy about this!

Donating money is pointless atm unless you have a few 10s of millions.

Get out there and ask the people who know (SDM, D&P, Walter, Ally etc) the awkward questions instead of slagging those you think are your enemies.

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C.W. Is in his zone.Lets look at every deals he has been into in the past, every thing he touches has to be crooked, right down to giving money to Kim @ the children.If he can refuse money to his very own family,then fat chance RFC have , this just sums up the type individual we are up against.Every transaction ever reported in his name,he has got the same answer to my lawyers are dealing with this.Well C.W.Get out of this one without disruption to other peoples lives.

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29 Mar 2012 18:22:29
1 step forward three backwards , please step forward Sir Tom Hunter and save our club and give him his pound back, personally I'm still angry with Sir David and none to happy with Whyte ... I for one will not be renewing my season ticket till this man is out of the picture as he's aiming for liquidation and if this happens forget it , I for one will never be supporting a Phoenix club Mr Whyte , Rangers till I die !

Believable16 Unbelievable20

Can understand your bit about Mr Whyte but the bit about not supporting the pheonix club but please please will you comeback during the glory years we will really need you then NOT

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A new club will be just that, it wont be the club our fathers, grandfathers supported. And neither will I, cause no matter how you put it, there is only ONE Glasgow Rangers.

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I appreciate your opinion but i "glory years " I'm 40 m8 and have been going to watch my team since I was 7 do the maths and tell me how many leagues, scottishs cups and league cups we have one since 1978 ! My earliest memory of being inside Ibrox was sitting in centenary stand old name for the govan stand , watched every manager from Jock, Greig, Tommy McLean , Jock , Souness , Smith shall I go on , so
If you count winning a treble under Wallace , a couple of league cups then yes I'm a total glory hunter !! Ed can we have a profile added so I can tell this guy home many games etc home, away not forgetting Europe , I have had a season ticket since I was 16 and I'm only pointing out if we're liquidated then I'm out of it .. History sold for a pound and Murray and Whyte are guilty as charged as were looking to have a stand off , whyte is the only winner thanks to sir David ... Rant over , Motherwell away for me next or am I chasing glory , four men had a dream !

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Or rangers till they die!

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If we liquidate I will still support the team, Rangers are an instituition and that instituition will only die if fans like you dont go back. We may have aslightly different name but we wil still be the Gers. I am not comfortable with Whyte either that is my biggest concern. I think its about time the man was removed from his position with the club. He is under investigation from everyone and their granny but noone is actually doing anything at the moment. The SFA have deemed he is not suitable so they should approach the courts and enforce this with D&P. He paid nothing for Rangers so for him to say he is not selling to the Blue Knights is a complete joke.

J

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We will still be gers i will support a newco only if the fans owns 51 percent

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29 Mar 2012 18:16:20
who's renewing their season books while whyte is involved not me
mr myle

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Is this saga ever going to end? we are only supporters, "the most important part of the setup" and we are being tortured like this, the big money men will still have their money, there is something very sinister going on here and we are the little people left to suffer

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You wont renew your season books because whyte is still there,But you keep throwing money at the club ie red&black scarves,The fighting fund,Donations. You may feel this is helping the club pay bills,it's Whyte thats saving the money he dose own 85% so if D&F are in charge or running the club then let them pay the bills after all that's the reason for the wage cuts so they can save one million a month. They are only making sure there wages are at the end whatever happens.So keep your hard earned money in your pocket till the club is sorted out,that way D&P may work quicker,all this extra cash is one of the reasons they are dragging there feet ......b

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The last post is utter rubbish we need to dig deep and keep the club alive till we see if any of the bidders take over and as for season tickets yes i will renew both mine i dont want whyte in charge but i support rangers football club and that is what i will carry on doing no glory hunting

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It's not about glory hunting its about giving someone 500 pound that u don't trust, this guy cannot have any part of rangers.

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Not until I know where the money is going. There will lots of tickets for sale every week, so attending the games will not be a problem, but I like to know what I'm getting for my money.

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I will defo be renewing mine. Once a bear always a bear Copeland front loyal!!!

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Neither my son, brother or myself will be renewing until Craig Whyte out of the picture completely, John F

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Been a season ticket holder for 27 years BUT people saying "l will defo renew etc etc " - don't you realise that once you pay and then the club is liquidated - YOU LOSE YOUR MONEY! AND have to pay again once a newco starts up! Don't renew until Whyte is a thing of the past.

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Sad to say i wont renew my season ticket till this fiasco gets sorted times are tough for us bears too

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29 Mar 2012 17:08:09
Now that Lord Hodge has established that there is a legal contract between Rangers FC and Ticketus and that Ticketus made the payments to Rangers (not Craig Whyte). The way is now open for D&P, Ticketus, HMRC or any other Stakeholder to remove Whyte as a preferred Creditor. Rangers owes Whyte no money. Whyte did not pay Lloyds, Ticketus money paid Lloyds.

The assignation of security over Assets from Lloyds to Rangers Group (Whytes company) is therefore void. Whyte has no security over Assets as he did not pay Lloyds.

However, Whyte will remain 85% owner as he bought shares legally for £1.

Believable29 Unbelievable13

The Whtye Knight and all his friends will be loving this, Its the rest of the clubs and other people who have been screwed who we should all feel for,
Its a JOKE

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This is correct.
Whyte can be removed quite quickly in court as a preferred creditor as he isn't a creditor.

He will remain the owner but his companies assets won't be secured.

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Wouldnt like to work for sdm apound for doing his dirty work for him ,what about the 86,000 + 19,000 does whyte expects the fans to pay that too ,what did he do with the 250,000 he got for the arsenal shares dont think he got the b-lls to show his face in glasgow doug

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D&P are on the record saying Whyte is irrelevant. They should therefore undertake the most meaningful court case to get his status as preferred creditor dropped. He is NOT a Creditor and never has been.

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This is actually quite important. Whytes ownership of the club and his status as preferred creditor (security over assets) are two completely different things.

They can be dealt with separately and are not interwoven.

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So he owns Rangers but isn't preferred creditor so as the owner he'll have a say in who buys his club. Its actually better to have Whyte as preferred creditor than HMRC or anyone else.

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Whytes not even a creditor let alone a preffered one.

D&f will move to take control of his shareholding at court, should be the easiest 5 minutes work a QC ever had.

as court appointed administrators D&F can do whatever they like as long they can show its in the creditors best interest.

that includes ripping up ticketus's dodgey deal with a lawyer in england and going to court to take control of whytes shareholding

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Why have D&P not moved to remove Whyte as preferred creditor long before now? This administrators actions are quite bewildering. Do they know what they're doing? They must take action now to protect the real creditors.

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Whyte will defend any attempt to remove the security he holds. bargaining chip for quick sale of shares. Quicker and cheaper for a new owner to buy him out than lengthy defended case.

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My understanding is that Whyte is not a creditor as he is the owner? If I'm wrong please set me right because this is confusing.

Whyte reckons he is due the 'floating' charge which is the 18 million that paid off the Lloyds debt, regardless of where he got the money from, I can see the logic I suppose but what I want to know is:

Does he want that to leave or does he want that money AND to stay as owner?

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Why have D&P not moved to seize his shareholding just now ?

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The floating charge is null and void.

Lord hodge has given legality to the contractual relationship between Ticketus and Rangers.

There is no contractual relationship between Ticketus and Whyte.

Whyte didn't pay the £18m it was Ticketus money to Rangers FC. Nothing to do with Whyte.

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Will need a court case to remove his shareholding He did pay off Lloyds strictly speaking as it went through his solicitors bank account. The issue as to how he raised the 18m is separate and the crux of the case, but again would need a judge's decision on that. This all not a 5min court job, especially if he fights it. Whyte can drag this out and time not on the clubs side. Bidders will need to do deal with him.

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Where is SDM in all of this! Whyte has flouted the terms & conditions of ownership, the least SDM could do is apply pressure, or call in the agreement. And where is the SFA with the fit & proper persons rule! If we are liquidated it wont be due to the supporters, or the team, it will be Mr SILENT SDM. There is no real reason for whyte to still be here!

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There is no contractual link between Whyte and Ticketus but he does still own 85% of Rangers.

Dont expect Whyte to disappear without laying two aces on the table.

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Whyte didn't pay off Lloyds strictly speaking.

Rangers paid off Lloyds with money from a Ticketus legal contract between Rangers and Ticketus. ( not Whyte and Ticketus).

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The assets see not secured to anyone and see up for grabs by the creditors. Whyte is not a creditor.

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Lord Hodge established no such thing. He distanced himself from the Ticketus situation.

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Lord Hodge was petitioned by D&P to scratch the Ticketus contract. He refused quoting not enough information. This acknowledges legal existence of the contract and content of the contract.

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Lord Hodge basically acted like Pontius Pilate and made no decision that either helped our case or theirs. This will run for a while yet.

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I would love to see the books (as would we all) as in my opinion i believe craig whyte paid the lloyds 18million through a directors loan to the club. I believe the ticketus money came in and he paid himself back. It is the only reasoning i can come up with which allows him to meet the agreement with sdm and why d&p threaten legal action only to do nothing. in addition at the start we all heard d&p say that they hadnt found the 18 -24 million ticketus cash, but last week in court they tried to nullify the deal. does this mean they have now found the money? if so who has it

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Ticketus money went to Lloyds bank

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SDM agreed to sell CW his shares for £1 under the understanding that the 18mill owed to Lloyds would be paid off by CW.
CW did NOT pay off that debt himself, so therefore breached that part of the agreement to sell, along with certain other contractual obligations such as paying tax etc..
Therefore, CW is NOT legally the owner of those shares, or the owner of Rangers. He's ALREADY out of the picture & will be very easy for D+P to prove so.

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29 Mar 2012 17:02:20
Dundee United have reported Rangers to the Scottish Premier League over unpaid ticket money following the clubs' recent meeting at Tannadice.

United say they are owed £19,000 by the Ibrox club for the match on 17 March.

The dispute is a separate matter to money due to United from Rangers which relates to their Scottish Cup meeting at Ibrox on 5 February.

An amount of £86,000 is still to paid by Rangers from that earlier match, according to Dundee United.

Believable26 Unbelievable5

Yes true. On both occasions Dundee Utd emphatically won 2-0 and 2-1.
They are now owed £105k.
United have denied any earlier bad treatment of Rangers fans stating they were treated fairly.

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I thought that the away club were not legally obliged to pay the money till 2 weeks after the match - was this not the point made by Celtic a few weeks ago. Its not been 2 weeks since the game the was played.

Gers1986

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An amount of £86,000 is still to paid by Rangers from that earlier match, according to Dundee United.

No it £86,000 if you combine the two totals.

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Dun Utd have been owed £105k for some time now. SFA and SPL must bring maximum pressure to bear against D&P to settle this in the interest of Scottish football.
Without doing dodgy deals by letting Rangers off with other stuff!!!!
Actually Dun Utd are in a powerful position and can call in Sheriffs or close Rangers down!

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Powerful position is with D+P they have absolute power to do what is in best interest of the creditors and are legally obliged to do so

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Well Ticketus is the biggest Creditor so D&P must look after Ticketus as their highest legal priority.

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I thought dufc refused to give rangers tickets for the league match

and where only selling them directly??

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All creditors except Ticketus and HMRC can be paid very easily. It's not much money. D&P are making more money than owed to all Creditors except Ticketus and HMRC.
A complete Joke.
Fans RFFF paying 22k to Dunfermline and D&P getting millions just makes fans and RFFF directors look very silly.

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Ticketus are not a creditor at this stage (unless they are already owed money we don't know about.)
IF the administrators decide that abrogating their responsibilities under the Season ticket agreement with ticketus (which the judge has said they may do IF it would be in the best interests of ALL creditors) THEN Ticketus would BECOME creditors or RFC.
This has not yet happened, therefore Ticketus are NOT YET creditors.

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Eh... excuse me but are Rangers not in administration? That being the case DU are simply one of our list of creditors and have to get in line for their 10p in the pound.....

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What about the money owed to Hearts?

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Rangers should pay what is due to Dundee United or that club may also find itself in deep water too! We must pay our way in football as we must in life; Dundee United workers can lose their jobs because of any Rangers default!

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This is a considerable sum of money for one of the 10 diddy rebel clubs. They need to recognise that all these payments will cease for ever from our fans buying tickets should any SPL decision go against Ramgwrs.

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They are doing without it now cos you dont pay .....b

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What money owed to Hearts?

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There is NO money owed to Hearts until June 2013 - we should be out of administration by then!!

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June 2013? You'll be a footnote in the history books by then. Hearts will never see that 800k again.

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29 Mar 2012 16:51:41
Dundee United have lodged a complaint with SPL re: unpaid £19,000 ticket money from Rangers Administrators relating to game at Tannadice 17 March.

Believable17 Unbelievable7

29 Mar 2012 16:21:16
SFA case against Rangers and Craig Whyte adjourned till 17 April. 3 day tribunal with hearing on 6 April which CW is expected to attend. Adjourned to enable CW to prepare case.

Believable5 Unbelievable3

You gotta be f'n joking man! Time to prepare a case? Look the way things are going here, i'm going to end up agreeing with the Celtic fans, The establishment is rotten to the core. How long has he had already to prepare, and if what he says( i've done nothing illegal) why does he need to prepare a case? This is getting murkier by the day. Stevie-A-Bear

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The SPL/SFA do not have the bottle to address this complaint and show strong leadership dealing with the issue.
I suspect they are waiting(hoping) for the club to get the result of the big tax case and IF it goes against Rangers they will be liquidated and so the SPL/SFA will have no club to disipline. they should name the spl/sfa headquarters the chicken coup.

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If it was Celtic they would've been hammered this morning and KJ and JT would've had the papers held back for a late version. Duplicitous cronyism.

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D+P must be laughing all the way to the bank , sfa hearing delayed , case for the 3.4M delayed, BTC still to be decided, nobody is going to bid to all these are resolved, so more time in administration more money to D+P , its all dragging on and on

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Whos whyte going to use randall and hopkirk or he could say neil lennon made him do it doug

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CW has nothing to answer to, in that he has done everything within the law.
The SFA are powerless to sanction Rangers PLC because they will cease to exist and emerge as New Rangers PLC. The New Rangers will be squeaky clean.

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New Rangers will be forever asscociated with shameful tax dodging and debt dodging if they reform out of Rangers without paying the creditors.

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29 Mar 2012 16:16:07
The Scottish FA have decided to adjourn their hearing into Craig Whyte and Rangers after Whyte's lawyers asked for more time to prepare a case.

A three-man panel was due to rule after the club and Whyte were found guilty of bringing the game into disrepute and not acting in a fit and proper manner.

The charges followed Lord Nimmo Smith's independent inquiry which also found the club guilty on three other counts.

It is understood the club will argue that Whyte was the man to blame.

The SFA charged Rangers and Whyte with seven breaches of its rules.

The club is charged with five offences and the former chairman two more between 6 May 2011 and 6 March 2012.

Lord Nimmo Smith's inquiry found that Whyte was "not a fit and proper person" to own a football club.

SFA chief executive Stewart Regan warned when announcing these findings that the club could be charged with bringing the game into disrepute.

And he said Rangers faced disciplinary action unless they paid money owed to Dundee United for a Scottish Cup tie at Ibrox.

However, Paul Clark of the club's administrator Duff and Phelps said he would "look forward to stating the club's case to the judicial panel", arguing there are "mitigating factors" and stating his intention to "demonstrate the distinction between the club and the actions of any individuals".

The notices of complaints issued to Rangers and Whyte allege breaches of rules concerning compliance with the SFA articles, insolvency, bringing the game into disrepute and "acting in the best interests of association football".

Rangers entered administration on 14 February and Duff and Phelps are currently assessing bids to buy the club

Believable2 Unbelievable2

Whyte wanted case adjourned until July. Dundee United cup money hearing will begin after Whyte and Rangers cases are dealt with.

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Another month D&P need to hang about.

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29 Mar 2012 16:16:01
Liquidation is the end result Murray wants.
His plan was to lease Ibrox back to rangers all along!

This action will cripple Rangers!

Believable26 Unbelievable15

29 Mar 2012 15:47:40
A mate told me last night that the tax case was lost and rangers were holding the details back.Laughed it off but the dude was serious! now heard from a gers source that rangers are meeting ALL ebt beneficiaries on friday? a payback plea maybie?

Believable22 Unbelievable7

Shouldn't be a payback plea, they took out the EBT loans and if all above board they should be paid them back - end of!

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If SDM had been advised they would win the BTC, then he would have not sold the club.

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Your mate a psychic is he? The result wont be til NEXT month at the earliest. Even the judge being asked to make that decision doesn't know his own decision yet! lol

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Strangely, this is how I expect the BTC to come out. There's a multitude of secretaries who type up the documents, court clerks, etc.... Who will see the result, also the court will not go public but inform Rangers first, about 10 days in advance. Then it will break like this.....

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So on Friday, all the ex Rangers players will be back in Glasgow to meet them to discuss the EBT's... Oh that will be why the legends game is on so there all back in town. A Rangers source told me that this post was garbage !!

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In which case Mark Hately dashes back to Ingerlaand and supports a new team.

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29 Mar 2012 15:42:47
Is the fighting fund a good or a bad thing? In my opinion it's well meaning but just appears to be papering over the cracks.The news of the Kennedy bid being dismissed could be good news, as it might signal some action (at last) from the glacial pace Duff & Phelps seem to favour.If the fund can keep Rangers running and out of liquidation till the findings of the tax case then it's job done.It has also been reported that Mr Whyte will take legal action against D & P if they try and secure a deal with the "blue knights"consortium.This is where the Fund enters murky waters.With the season at an end,income will drop sharply but running costs carry on running.Other than travel expenses there can not be any more saved.If Rangers are to be tied up in courts for years why not liquidate now? Whyte wont walk away(he said it!)and who would pay him off? Rangers fans cant be expected to contribute to a fund that is being used in legal fees can they?

Believable8 Unbelievable3

Very well intended but pi@@ing in the wind. Just confusing and delaying

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29 Mar 2012 15:42:23
Have just heard that some of the comments being made by administrators and Murray is setting us up for liquidation.
Also heard a few of the bidders that are left Are only interested if we go into liquidation

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Americans want CVA as this is the bidder Whyte has brought to table and that's all he's been rabbiting on about since day 1.

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It's the only way to get rid of Ticketus and HMRC. Remember though, Ticketus owns the seats in the stadium.

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A liqudiated Rangers is not an attractive proposition to the Administrators, creditors, buyers, SPL or to the club and its fans.

However Rangers are no bigger than Leeds Utd and they fell off a cliff.

It is a real possibility.

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Neither Ticketus or HMRC have to accept a CVA in fact liquidation could net both more than a 10p in the pound deal. A CVA takes 28 days after being submitted to be accepted its getting rather close to the 1st of June when the players wages return to normal rates.

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The assets can be sold to give all creditors their full money.

Even Walter Smith mentioned Liquidation twice today on STV whilst punting the legends game.

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Walter wouldn't use the word Liquidation unless it was a real and viable possibility. He used that word on TV today.

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If we get liquified what will happen to the players?

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"If we get liquified what will happen to the players?"

bye bye players bye bye club bye bye rangers bye bye history.

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Ticketus don't own the seats. They paid for a number of season tickets, that doesn't mean you own the seat. I've had a season ticket in the clubdeck for several years but I still don't own it.
If the club went into liquidation my season book would be ripped up and sod all I could do about it

quabba

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29 Mar 2012 14:14:16
D&P released statement confirming agreement with Bain to end legal case. They have also put back tomorrows court case against Collyer Bristow over the £3.6m Ticketus money till 16th April so that they can include "subtantially larger claims against Collyer Bristow."

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So D&P 'put back' court cases, which have little Merit anyway!
You couldn't make it up. Another 3 weeks for D&P to get paid more money.
This Lawyers account money is owed elsewhere. It doesn't belong to Rangers but D&P and their Lawyer friends are on the gravy train and don't want to get off. Not often a nice succulent Rangers falls into their laps.

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D&P may have done a deal with Bain. Both got money out of this. Somebody needs to publish who got what.

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Oh shut up timmy! you clearly dont have a clue what you're talking about! for a start, the additional funds they're chasing are the 6mill for jelavic amongst other money that was due to RFC. shouldnt you be more concerned with your own club & its excuse for a manager that is currently facing 3 charges by the SFA?

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29 Mar 2012 14:11:09
Brian Kennedy's Rangers bid rejected by the admins

http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/0/football/17550253

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Told you yest hrs buying bradford bulls.

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29 Mar 2012 13:52:57
Brian Kennedy no longer in the running to buy rangers Ssn.

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Canny blame the guy , blue knights also out of the picture so it ain't looking good right now fellow bears !!

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Canny blame the guy?
what are you on about? His bid was REJECTED by the admin team of D+P in favour of one or more of the other bids that are better

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29 Mar 2012 13:45:23
Kennedys bid rejected by D/P throwing his weight behind Blue Knights.Thought he was ask to join before?

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29 Mar 2012 13:43:20
ok guys,

so with the wee bonuses today of bain dropping his case and also the compo from fifa.

this is some extra money that we didnt expect.

hopefully should be about £550k

can we not add some money from the RFFF to thios and clear of the money we are due to hearts.

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Let's see what the SFA and SPL fines are first later today.

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The money for Lee Wallace is not due yet. We are up to date at present. The outstanding monies at present are Dundee united.

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True, but hey makes it easier to pay them, if we get any last i heard was d&p where trying to pass all blame straight to whyte and not the club..

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Might not be due yet but would be good to clear a debt in advance and keep favour with hearts.

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Hearts won't be paid until its due but even then the summer may decide what happens with a number of players futures. With the exception of Sunday I've been quite disappointed with Lee Wallace but hopefully he can improve and have a bright future with Rangers.

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Bain's full statement says money released to administrators will be less his legal costs.

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Should go to pay money due to smaller clubs before they go bust too.

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29 Mar 2012 13:11:19
Who is the secret 4th bidder? Any ideas?
Cannot wait until we hear the outcome of the tax case. Even if it's bad news it will mean the figures are out there and bidders if any left will know what they are dealing with! It's this "in the dark" nonsense that is scaring them because it's all ifs, buts and rumours. When is the hearing due?

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1-4 weeks roughly.

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"hearing" held weeks ago. tribunal decision if not issued by tomorrow will likely be held until end of April due to Easter recess.

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I hear Dick Turpin is the 4th bidder.

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29 Mar 2012 12:53:33
Brian Kennedy's bid has been rejected by Duff & Phelps

Bbc sport website

quabba

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Nor surprised, 2 other bids were better cash offers and one of those were Blue Knights. That just leaves the Americans in pole position now - looks like Whyte will get his finders fee.

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Urged administrators to speed up the process.

"I'm disappointed but not surprised by this outcome,"

"I always said that I would only get involved for the good of the club and it seems my bid just wasn't good enough."

Kennedy was one of five interested parties aiming to succeed current owner Craig Whyte.

Former Rangers director Paul Murray's Blue Knights consortium, United States-based Club 9 Sports, a UK-based consortium and a Singapore-based consortium have all expressed an interest.

Administrators Duff and Phelps want a new owner in place by the summer.

Kennedy added: "I'm glad the process is moving forward and I just hope the administrators go with Paul Murray and his Blue Knights now.

"I think they have the best interests of the club at heart."

But no money of their own and Whyte won't sell to them anyway.

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Something not quite right about this. Kennedy released a statement through sky sports telling the administrators to hurry up, because contracts needed to be secured, etc. Now he has been told his bid has been rejected. I am convinced now more than ever D&P have only Craig Whytes intrest at heart. Liquidation looks inevitable, because personaly i dont trust those "foreign" bids at all.

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I see we are back on the conspiracy trail again, CW is but one of many creditors, and he is by no means the biggest.

Administrators are held accountable by the courts to serve the interests of all creditors, not just CW.

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Starting to look that way i'm afraid.
Surely their must be some kind of legal guideline,or governing agency,or control body,like the FSA for example that keeps an eye on these matters?
Do they (Administrators) in general,not just D&P get total carte blanche? I'm sure i read on here a few times that a number of financial experts have expressed a surprise at how long this process is taking. Stevie-A-Bear

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This is true I've just read it online.
Kennedy is out, Souness is out.

Reading between the lines I think he has withdrawn but that would look bad. So they are making it look like D&P declined the bid to limit damage.
He said himself it all depended on the Ticketus situation and he was taking legal advice. Guess that legal advice came back- Ticketus are solid and owed £48m of tickets over next 4 years.

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Ticketus will take ownership of Rangers and their front man puppet will be Paul Murray. It will all be about getting their money and profit back over the next 4 years. HMRC dependant.

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Kennedy was offering his own cash (but not enough) plus the same share issue as Murray. Murray is offering more indebtedness to Ticketus. Crazy!

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It's liquidation, after D&P/ Whyte grind it into the dust.

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So no Kennedy and Whyte has said he will never sell to Paul Murray. Interesting day so far and the SFA. Ruling and SPL rulings aren't even out yet lol.

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Ticketus will own Rangers. Paul Murray won't get a job out of it. Not acceptable to Craig Whyte, also under current regs he's not a fit and proper person god SFA. So Ticketus need a different clean front man to run things.

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@ 5th post
Don't agree with your point about looking bad,and BK bailing out because of Ticketus. BK put his offer on hold over the weekend after Lord Hodge's (Non) decision over Ticketus to take legal advice. He susequently came back in. It does look as if we're heading for somewhere we don't want to go though,whether that's liquidation'or a buy out with Whyte in the background,it's to look look bad whatever way.
P.S - Ed.- Did i not read somewhere that PMurray was going to dump Ticketus?
Stevie-A-Bear

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The Blue Knights will be rejected next. Whyte and Ellis did deals with USA asset grabbers.

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29 Mar 2012 12:49:31
Rangers are set for a £250,000 windfall after FIFA ruled Tromso owe them compensation for the sale of Thomas Kind Bendiksen.

Tromso director Stig Ove Sanders said: ''Rangers weren't interested in a transfer fee because they thought they get more money in compensation. Now we know why.''

Believable12 Unbelievable7

Sweet !
PaulRFC

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Every penny counts!

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Its not sweet, it makes us out to be a penny pincher, with an eye to making a fast buck, seems very familiar

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Good. they can now forward that to hearts towards the £800,000 they owe them !

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Sweet thats a couple of debts paid off,yeh right

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Excellent news - some at last! Do we still need to GAIS though for Cellik?

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"Good. they can now forward that to hearts towards the £800,000 they owe them !"

the next installment of the lee wallace transfer fee isnt due yet so why would we give them it just now??

silly bhoy!!

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Should we not pay Dun Utd first? think they'r next in line. Oh and there sweet fa wrong with apply good business acument and getting the best value for the club out of these things. Bout bloody time! LB

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After What they done to our Fans at the Abandoned game against them, NO CHANCE!!. Pay them last.

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29 Mar 2012 10:36:41
Ticketus investors as currently (before BTC) 62% debt holders have elected not to accept a CVA if offered. 10p CVA = £2.5m , 20p CVA = £5m, which isn't acceptable. They will liquidate as an example rather than take pennies and be conned. Pennies are nothing to these Asian Billionaires.

Believable26 Unbelievable17

These Singaporean/ Asian Chinese businessmen need to save face. It'll be 100% or nothing!

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Ed, i thought Lord Hodge refused to grant Ticketus preferential creditor status, and D&P(if they decide) can rip this agreement up if it's detremental to other creditors. So how can Ticketus push for liquidation? We may still end up there, but my question is just on the Ticketus issue,given what the Admin have said. What's your view Ed, is this just soundbites from D&p? -Stevie-A-Bear {Ed001's Note - as far as I am aware, the ruling made it clear that Ticketus were just a creditor and they would have to abide by any agreement. That was how I read it, I am sure they would want to reject any deal, but they might not be in any position to affect the decision.}

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The judge ruled Ticketus not to have claim on 4 years tickets worth 48m. But that their contract stands. They are now a creditor like all the rest, for 25.5m or 63% of all Creditors. Given that a CVA needs agreement of 75% of Creditors, Ticketus decides the fate. Ticketus IS the Creditor and D&Ps legal job is to protect the Creditor ( Ticketus).

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Ticketus are the major Creditor now. You need 75% creditors to agree a CVA.

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Lord Hodge said Ticketus had no right to the £48m worth of tickets but were owed their £25m back. With HMRC currently at £15m that makes them the biggest creditor. Enc of.

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That's the way i was thinking as well Ed. Sort of blows above post out the water then. But i notice a few "Agrees" already. Be interesting to see what thy're agreeing with -Stevie-A-Bear {Ed001's Note - it really depends on who is the preferred creditors, and a lot will come down to whether the creditors sit down together and set their stall out as a group. Sometimes these creditor groups will end up fighting amongst themselves over how much to accept. Ticketus have a large amount of the debt owed to them, but, without preferential status, they really shouldn't have as much power as it would look from the outside.}

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Creditors can appeal against any CVA within 28 days of the vote, that gives HMRC time for the BTC result to come in if they appeal, in which case they are in driving seat.

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All Creditors don't need to accept any CVA. Because Rangers has Assets worth more than the debt (unlike other companies). Creditors will wait to sell off Ibrox, the car Park and Murray Park to get full owed monies (100p CVA). Why accept less?

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Ticketus can appeal the ruling to a higher court.

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HMRC have stated they will appeal the BTC if it goes against them.
HMRC cannot lose the BTC due to their other targets. They will appeal and appeal until they get the decision, It's not about Rangers ( this is the problem Rangers faces).

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There are now NO protected or preferred Creditors.

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Currently, as it stands, D&P have not stopped the contractual agreement selling 4 years Tickets to Ticketus. If they exercise this 'right' as interpreted by Lord Hodge ruling, Ticketus will sue, cue years of bitter wrangling over the £48million tickets.

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Are assets noT held by secured creditor - Whyte, therefore irrelevant in terms of CVA?

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Think you will find craig whyte is the main creditor, he has still to play his hand (unless it is proved he broke contract agreements with sdm, which could take years in the courts to sort out). i think he is looking to do a deal with one of the bidders which will line his wee tight pockets, the man has no shame.

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You are all responding to this like the guy actually was at a meeting with them to discuss a CVA.

He is adding a rumour.

One which I believe is nonsense.

You not think that if a meeting had been held, everyone in the media would know

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Ticketus was previously used by David Murray. This Ticketus situation is due to paying off the Murray indebtedness to Lloyds/ Bank of Scotland. Toxic legacy debt from Murray strangling us. Strip the knighthood for business.

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"HMRC cannot lose the BTC due to their other targets. They will appeal and appeal until they get the decision"
They must have grounds for appeal, e.g. new evidence, or any appeal will simply be thrown out of court.

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Ticketus have been down this road before, they are not going to agree to a CVA and then allow any new owner to carry on as if they do not exist. If there is a RFC trading then they will expect to get the agreed season ticket sales.

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Whyte is the creditor with 85% dont know what all this tickitus creditor BS is about

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If whyte is found guilty of wrong doing (2006 Finances Act) Then secured creditor status reverts back to SDM (he would have a morale obligation to sell for £!) The buyer could then sack all players/staff making them creditors for unpaid contracts well in excess of Ticketus debt as a group if they had the required 75% they could then force through the CVA then be re employed within weeks if they pay back a % of redundancy pay all perfectly legal and with the new contracts all being upped at start of season makes me think that was Whytes plan all along

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From what I understand Whyte is 85% shareholder - not the same thing. In fact quite the reverse - shareholders only get what's left after the creditors have been paid off which could be zero if debts are greater than assets (which another poster says they're not - but remember the EBT situation has yet to be settled).

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Ed i gotta say this makes for frightening reading for us Bluenoses! I am taking it that the fact a certain Mr Whyte has stated in the news and newspapers that he personally underwrote the Ticketus debt, NOT Rangers is now completely irrelevant and it was another pile of "Craig Whyte" coming out of his mouth ? Sorry if i seem a wee bit behind the times here ed im just getting more and more confused EVERY time i read another story about my beloved club!

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Whyte is no longer a Creditor. It has to be decided in court over a week like Ticketus, but that's the case. The debt from Rangers to Ticketus NOT to Whyte.
Whyte did not put £18m into Rangers. Lord Hodge has legally given acknowledgement to Ticketus being the source of funds NOT Whyte.

There are NO secured Creditors and Whyte remains owner as he bought shares for £1.

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Didnt Whyte have the security over the assets moved to him from Lloyds when he "purchased" the club.

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Whyte is the Owner with 85% shareholding. He is NOT a Creditor. The Assets are not protected by him, he did not pay the £18m to Lloyds, Ticketus money did that through a contract with Rangers FC.

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If anything, Ticketus are the preferred Creditor for paying off Lloyds, not Whyte.

They are currently legally owed £48m in ticket sales over 4 years.

D&P went to court to get the contract scratched and failed. They're interpretation of the ruling is wrong. Deliberately to try and attract a buyer.

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Quote from Lord Hodge Judgement in Bain case, clearly sets out where the security of Rangers assets lies.

"That document disclosed that The Rangers FC Group Limited (formerly Wavetower Limited) ("Group") had purchased 85.3 per cent of the shares of Rangers for the cash sum of £1 and had given certain undertakings. As part of the deal, Group took over Rangers' indebtedness to the Lloyds Banking Group, which Mr Ellis informed me stood at about £18 million, and obtained an assignation of the Bank's securities over Rangers' assets. The summary of material terms of the acquisition disclosed that Group would waive this debt."

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Ticketus currently owed £48m of future tickets over next 4 years. Importantly the impending season tickets payable upon receipt.
If the contract is terminated by D&P Ticketus becomes immediately biggest Creditor. But Ticketus font want this and will fight in the courts for their £48m ticket money.

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Whytes security over the Assets assigned to him by Lloyds is surely wiped out by the fact Rangers itself paid the debt and NOT Whyte.

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I'm none the wiser since this post began.
Seems to me everytime a post gets added it contradicts the previous one.
Is there anyone on these pages that can explain it it's entirety. I'm particularly baffled by the last post. Because if they had "given certain undertakings" Is this the same undertakings that they(allegedly) gave to SDM. Because i've been led to believe that they never followed through with these undertakings. Or am i missing something here? Stevie-A-Bear

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Whytes security can only be removed via a long protracted court case. He's still in driving seat.

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YES CORRECT, Rangers sold future tickets to Ticketus to pay off Rangers debt to Lloyds.
Whyte has no Security over any Assets, he didn't put any money into the club and is NOT a creditor of Rangers.

Rangers DO NOT owe Whyte any money.

Rangers owes Ticketus 4 years of Tickets.

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Read the Lord Hodge quote above, can't make it any clearer. Yes Rangers owe Ticketus, but Whyte's holding company own security over the assets ahead of Ticketus and anyone else!

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Whytes security is still in place and cannot be removed without a court order. D&P powerless to do anything unless they take him to court. So any bidder needs to do a deal with Whyte as well as D&P. As we have seen today, Whyte has blocked any sale to Blue Knights and can do the same with any other bid.

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My understanding is that Wavetower or whatever corporate vehicle Whyte used to lend the money he borrowed from Ticketus may have been secured on Rangers assets e.g. Ground, training park (and anything else the assetstripper could throw in) therefore if he is the owner of the company that is the lender of the money (wavetower) he has security over the assets and Ticketus, HMRC and all others can go whistle if he chooses to force liquidation. I have however been known to be wrong.

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D&P, Ticketus or HMRC can arrange a quick court case to have Whytes assignation of Assets from Lloyds removed. It's easy. He didn't pay any money and he is not a Creditor.
However he would remain 85% shareholder and Owner as he paid his £1.

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Ticketus do not have to accept ny agreement. No one as to accept a cva, the v is for voluntary

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29 Mar 2012 10:14:41
Former Rangers Chief Exec Martin Bain has dropped his legal action against the club

Source: Radio Clyde

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A statement from M Bain says given the developments surrounding C Whyte, he no longer wants to continue with the action against RFC.

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Not through love of the club. Legal fees increasing with little chance of getting anything. Also RFFF only raised 250k with him chasing 400k. The club is going down. Ticketus will not do CVA and will liquidate as an example to others. HMRC cannot do CVA on current £15.5m but may do 60p on BTC, but no less. {Ed001's Note - I thought that 400k had been ringfenced and so would have been still in the bank?}

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Statement says he still wants legal costs paid. Yes court order has £400k ringfenced from Administrators/liquidation, so that figure would have included any legal costs if he won.

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Former Rangers chief executive Martin Bain has abandoned his £900,000 damages claim against the football club.

Mr Bain had been suing over alleged breach of contract following Craig Whyte's takeover last year.

He had £480,000 of the club's assets ring-fenced pending settlement.

Mr Bain said he was prepared to return this sum, minus legal expenses, to Rangers' administrators and stressed his legal action had been aimed at Craig Whyte and not the club.

Source: BBC

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At least it frees a little bit of money that was frozen

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Yes the ring fenced 400k should now be available as salary for D&P.

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In my opinion i think bain was right to do what he did. it was whyte that he wanted punished not rangers, plus by ring fencing it, it meant whyte could not spend it or transfer it somewhere else. this plus the money from bendikson i think wilol boost us by half a mil or there abouts./biggles

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Grand - now Rangers can pay back Dundee United and hopefully pay off some other smaller debts - caterers, hotel bills etc. Getting sick of us being seen as some joke club that does a runner all the time :(

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Whyte has planned this with murray 2yrs ago to dismember the rangers regime n its members

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Any money coming in from bendikson may well go straight back out to GAIS

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Who were rumored to be in absolute financial control over the club?
Who would have had the power to okay the deal a month before Whyte legally had anything to do with the club?
Who was subcontracted to a company with the sole purpose of getting their money?
who were the only company to gain financially from this highly dubious deal?
who would be charged if the deal was not found to be legal and were found to have gained financially from it?

If it was me I would have dropped my frivolous claim and done a GW + CW aswell

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I did post the proposal that Bain withdraw some two weeks ago with little sensible response from your contributers My point being it was anunwinnable case exposing Bains overpayment and mismanagement Why now should Rangers pay the legal costs which Bain would never had been awarded by losing in court Arent salaries in excess of half a million to run a company turnover of £40/50m enough to sooth bruised ego,s How many assets/players need to go in the summer to pay off the lawyers

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29 Mar 2012 07:45:17
Craig Whyte has reportedly told Duff and Phelps that he would prefer to see Rangers go in to liquidation than sell to Paul Murray and the Blue Knights!

Earnock Bear

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Games within games, playing the great plan to spook the decent ordinary supporters for fools, now that we have paid of some of the debt, guess what renewal of the efforts of the Fund to pay off more, non footballing debts

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There's no love lost between those two, Craig sacked Paul and he's still out in the cold.
Whyte still has his floating charge. It will take a long drawn out court case or a hefty bribe to get Whyte to walk away.

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Well he is the owner after all.

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It was his plan all along

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David Murray has publicly backed P Murray as his choice, then flew off to Hong Kong to sell his wine.

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Whyte schyte never again 2012

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