Rangers Rumours Archive April 07 2012

 

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07 Apr 2012 23:22:00
I see jela got another 2 goals for everton today.what if he had stayed at ibrox?what happened to his transfer fee?
Another bear(innocent of tax evasion,mismanagement etc)

Believable21 Unbelievable14

According to the tax experts he is a championship player. Who couldn't cut it in the premiership. I notice he scores every game. In the premiership. Very good player. Too good for SPL. He only stopped scoring for rangers when it was obvious he was looking for a move. I expect him to achieve a bigger move in a year /18 months.

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His transfer fee is in Craig whytes wallet

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D & P report says we received only £2.5m up front.Doesn't cover a months outlay.

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Everton paying annual instalments over next two years according to D&P report.

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The lads pure class quality finishes yesterday.

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His ransfer fee? what one, we didn't even pay RV for him yet

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The transfer fee you still owe rapid Vienna ?

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According to most clubs in the EPL, he wasn't good enough as only Everton were interested enough to bid. It was a gamble that seems to be paying off.

Think about the bigger situation and the evidence before making yourself look daft.

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Fee being paid in installments nothing fishy going on

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Only Everton? That's a bit harsh. A very well run and competent English premier league club. Liverpool also interested if I recall. Not to mention wba and a couple of championship clubs. I think that is the bigger picture .

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There is something fishy going you haven't paid all the money to rapid ! And you got the cheek to complain about not receiving the money for him that's not due yet !
Same old story everyone else to blame

Rangers till July

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Yep the jellyfish is a top player , hailed as the next Davor Suker , The tax experts know zilch !!

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Rapid Vienna cwand still owed money for michael ball surprise surprise

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Cany ask fur that when we dont pay the paper boy. graeme

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What would have happened if he hadn't left? You would still have lost the league! he was there when you threw away a 15 point lead, He was there when you lost at Parkhead, He was there when you got bundled out of three cups. You might not do walking away but you can't say the same about excuses.

The tumble into administration papers over the cracks. You are now stuck with a manager who under any other circumstances would have been sacked for throwing away a lead that was so vast you were making jokes about having a league winners party at Christmas.

Face facts Bad team, Bad tactics Average manager short changed fans!

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Liverpool were never interested in Jela, all the eds have said so a load of times it was only Everton that ever showed any interest.Its a poor show from Sir Walter saying that no money was owed to RV and now it comes out that it was.RV even said there is no point reporting us to UEFA as we already face sanctions from them.

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I think the accounts show we still owe money on a few players. And that we are owed money on player sales. That is how transfers are done.

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Got a cheekto ask whete the money for him is when you still haven't paid Rapid Vienna all their money for him!

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Jelavic, not payed for last year tainted title this or last

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Jelavic proving others like Craig Burley and Neil Warnock that he is more than a "championship player at best"

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07 Apr 2012 21:30:56
Well done to those tremendous fans of rangers who have congratulated celtic on winning the title without adding a cheap tainted dig at us. It is appreciated. We are not all hell bent on your destruction, some of us want you to survive, history and all. Hopefully one of these bidders pull it off for you.

Believable56 Unbelievable24

The best team always wins the league

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Hear hear that man...and congrats on ur win

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Well said - the best team won the league without a doubt - glad to see a post that is not filled with hatred and disgust. Enjoy your title party.

Gers1986

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It's good to see celtic fans like that congratulations on your victory the best team won

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Any football minded fan will say congratulation to celtic on your league title im a rangers fan and hold no grudges the best team won the title this year just a pity it wasnt closer but well done to celtic players management and fans

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To be honest fellow bears celtic deserved it this season well done

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As a Celtic fan and a real football fan, it is heartening to read the top statement. I too hope that Rangers get through this sorry state of affairs and we can get back to normal service.

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Correct not all celtic fans want to see rangers die because we know the league will never be the same without the old firm , god luck with all the hard work ahead

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The Best Team Won. but the irony is it was celtic fans that kept going on about how it wasnt tainted, certainly i dont know anyone but celtic fans saying anything about a tainted title

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No tainted title, your form over christmas won it. enjoy...WATP...

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Well done, best team won this season

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Excellent that some can acknowlege the eastenders - praise to genuine fitba fans and best wishes back to the Gers fans

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Yes as you say we are not all lacking in decency Celtic deserved to win the title as they overturned a gap in points to win it 8 points ahead can I also say we are getting what we deserve because of the failure of past and present management and directors

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You cant argue as its obvious a team in good financial health is always going to be too strong for a team in administration. I could have led Celtic to the title this season. How the hell Rangers have managed to beat Celtic twice this season is beyond belief. McCoist and Lennon have both hid behind the administration fiasco. Scottish game is going further downhill and champions league qualifiers will prove it once again.

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Awwwwww! Its lovely to see the Ugly Sisters love in. And as for Lawell saying "we dont Rangers" ! You need each others bigotry,cheating and paranoia!

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The person who said he heard no-one but Celtic fans going on about a tainted title must have had their eyes and ears closed for the last couple of months. Just take a look on the banter page to see comments by Rangers fans claiming it's tainted or devalued. Not to mention big Skeletor himself, Mark Hateley.

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I believe it was Mark Hately acting for or at least on behalf of RFC in a journalistic capacity who suggested that Celtic's title win would always be tainted by the point deduction levied against RFC.
Clearly its a view that is not shared by most decent fans of any club, Rangers included, and this is very good to see.

Equally, given the duress being felt by those on Edmiston drive, I think some mitigation and understanding can be allowed in regards to Hatelys ill-judged sentiments. Least said, soonest mended.

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As much as we might deny it, the timaloys need the Gers fans in the game to keep it competitive and fun - I'd thank any Gers fan who acknowledged the title this year and Hately is a daft ENGLISH tube!

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Obviously written by someone from the Dark Side."Tremendous fans"? Thank god your demise will be soon.

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07 Apr 2012 21:21:34
The Blue Knights takeover bid is the next one to be rejected by Duff and Phelps. Which will leave only two bidders (Bill Ng and Bill Miller) vying for control of Rangers. With Ally McCoist comments today about him going to America to meet Bill Miller. It would appear the American is in the driving seat to be named the Preferred bidder this coming week.

Believable23 Unbelievable37

I would be very wary of the Yank.

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Looks like Bill will pay the Bill, sorry couldnt help myself.

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For one ally mccoist never said he is going to america so this is total lies, two, he would not go to america to meet a POTENTIAL buyer only a new owner, three the BK will not be rejected as depending on what the other two want to do they may be the only and last option as we know for sure they will not liquadate the club, nonsence post with nothing to back it up, dont post just for the sake of it please.

GGer54

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The fact of the matter is that Rangers(post administration) will need a serious injection of capital. Both the US bid & the Singapore bid are far better in that respect than the BK bid. Well meant though the BK bid may be it will ultimately not be successful

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Source: Sky Sports and other various.

McCoist had a conference call with Miller and was very encouraged. The next obvious step would be to meet. "i would fly out to the US as soon as"

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What's it got to do with McCoist?

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More smoke and mirrors Ng has 10x the financial power only one runner in the race

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We got all this guff from McCoist regarding meeting Kennedy. How genuine and serious he was.
He was serious enough to make the lowest indicative bid......

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Ally working for D&P now is he? Probably saw how much money there is to be made as an administrator and decided he might have a change in carer.

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For one ally mccoist never said he is going to america so this is total lies, two, he would not go to america to meet a POTENTIAL buyer only a new owner, three the BK will not be rejected as depending on what the other two want to do they may be the only and last option as we know for sure they will not liquadate the club, nonsence post with nothing to back it up, dont post just for the sake of it please.


Ally did Source http://www1.skysports.com/football/news/11788/7657397/McCoist-reveals-Miller-talks

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To the post above ally said if miller got preferd bidder status he would fly out to meet him mark.

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07 Apr 2012 20:20:03
All this nonsense about the tax case that has suddenly appeared today. The situation is as follows -

HMRC consider us liable for the tax on EBTs.
We do not agree
The tribunal is to decide if we are liable
There has been no decision
Rangers will not appeal if we lose
HMRC may appeal if we win

Quite honestly it makes little difference in our present condition if we win or lose. It means more money for other creditors if we win.
A decision needs to be made as soon as possible so that buyers know where we are.
HMRC will accept pence in the pound, if they don't they get nothing.
HMRC have had discussions with buyers and a deal will be done as long as whyte not involved.

Believable33 Unbelievable18

Is it because the HMRC being a government department believe they will win, and are already making the presumption?

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HMRC would be unlikely to agree to a CVA.
They have stated policy of voting against any CVA where avoidance was used (EBTs) or tax was knowingly withheld (CW PAYE).
They could agree to a CVA under such circumstances but it would be a first and could set a dangerous precedent w.r.t. subsequent Tax avoidance.

HMRC will have had no discussions with buyers. They do not discuss Tax arrangements with any 3rd party and have a duty to keep tax affairs confidential.

It is not up to HMRC when the BTC will announce. This is up to the tribunal judge, who is independent of HMRC. HMRC have any influence over the release of any decision. HMRC & RFC (administrators) will be informed of the outcome a short while before the full judgement is made public.

HMRC will make no comment at any time. The administrators may decide to reveal the outcome ahead of time. or they may wait until it is published, but they will know before anyone else what the result was.

When the judgement is issued, the judge may or may not allow the losing side leave to appeal. It is up to them whether they accept this:
There are 4 possible judgements:
RFC wins: HMRC may not appeal
RFC wins: HMRC may appeal
HMRC wins: RFC may appeal
HMRC wins: RFC may not appeal.

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You guys really don't get it, do you? HMRC are going to nail you to the wall. You are the test case. After you have been found guilty (and I'm 100% sure that you will) they have bigger fish to fry. "Doing a deal" at pennies in the pound with you would send out a message to the other clubs they are going after that they can bargain away their liability. Liquidating you, even if it means slightly less in this case means they will send out a message that they really mean business.

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Re: pence in the pound argument.

That's when a company bust and insufficient assets to meet its liabilities.... Is rangers in the state yet ......

according to the books they have assets worth in excess of 100 million pounds, namely inbox, Murray park, squad of players....

So hmrc can look forward to full payment,or more legal cases which rangers cannot afford to fight....being in administration.

So far looks like 25million in tax avoided, and deal would secure this.......

Deal or no deal........ Eh no deal,

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Football is a game, an important pastime. Stealing £100 mill is when it stops becoming fun. HMRC know they are correct with BTC, time to stop denying it

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To put the record straight - the decision RFC and HMRC are waiting on is on the penatly incurred. RFC admitted owing the tax, they are just awaiting if penalties are to be added.

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The original poster really is a dimwit.

A First Tier Tax Tribunal is set up to deal with APPEALS. Rangers appealed the amount that HMRC served them with.

The tribunal is NOT to determine whether Rangers are liable but in fact to determine how much they are liable for.

The game's up.

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"according to the books they have assets worth in excess of 100 million pounds, namely inbox, Murray park, squad of players...."

An asset is worth what someone is prepared to pay for it and different values are used for accounting purposes.

To build a brand New 50,000 seater stadium would cost ~£200m.
Ibrox is getting a wee bit frayed at the edges, so its asset value will have depreciated - it is entered at £100m for accounting purposes only - ironically - mainly for tax reasons (i.e. to allow the cost of paying for the stadium to be depreciated gradually and offset against tax over a number of years... assuming that you paid any, that is!)

If you were to sell it - you'd have to find a buyer. If you needed cash in a hurry? You'd be lucky to get a couple of million.
Without the football club - its a white elephant.

In the present circumstances, Ibrox and Murray park combined are estimated at £20-25m

Anyhow, this means you can subtract £75m from the D&P published accounts, from the get go.

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If Rangers are liquidated, it will be a powder keg! And HMRC know it, they have been advised by parliament. The old firm have been a social safety valve for a very long time, and with the Olympics & c/w games, all eye are watching! IF they win they will make it painful, but they wont kill us off.

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The original poster is correct, Rangers are appealing HMRC`s claim that they owe tax on the incorrect use of EBT`s. The independent tribunal is not deciding on how much Rangers owe, that would be the responsibility of HMRC. The panel is deciding on points of law.

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You are being used a a sacrifical lamb to show the others you won't get away with it, someone has it in for you big time and Duff & Duffer don't help by building up fans hopes to kick their legs away the next day with another revelation or embaressing disclosure. It must be disheartening for yourselves to watch this play out day by day.

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Hey - Harry Rednapp got off with theiving - we might too! Chin up Bears

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Harry RedKnapp merely avoided jail for his tax evasion. Part of this was accomplished by paying the tax money owed back toot sweet, before he even got to meet a judge.

So he doesn't have a criminal record. But he paid what he owed, make no mistake. HMRC do not pussy foot about.

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HMRC do not pussy foot about! how the feck has it took so long then ya rocket!

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Re second post, hmrc have a duty to keep tax affairs confidential and do not discuss tax affairs with 3rd parties.......so in the real world of tax avoidance and companies claiming to be unable to pay the amount requested a deal is done on a compromise figure, almost always less, again something better than nothing, and the settlement figure is not known to anyone except the two parties involved and one judge, pre-arranged deal done outside court and ratified in judges chambers, then announced in public court ie, 10, 20, 30 or whatever millions, then everyones a winner, the company survives, hmrc appear by all accounts to have won and the judge has done his public duty, remember, the judge is there to give the verdict on the amount owed, does anyone not realise this happens every day in courst throughout the land, civil cases, small claims courts, tax cases (especially) and then we have the serious matters ie murder, rape etc prosecutor, defence lawyer and judge in chambers, guilt admitted, to save time, money etc deal done, instead of 15 years you get 9, instead of long drawn out costly legal proceedings (more burden on the taxpayer) job done quickly in open court , again everyones a winner, this is the reality people, it is an exercise where no-one loses face and justice is seen to be done, each case is obviously distinct and depends on the parties involved but a sum in the region of 25 - 35 million would be my estimated figure agreed upon.........as a final note that has never been mentioned here there is an extremely large internal investigation at the moment within hmrc with regards to individuals employed from agencies by hmrc who have been using their own limited companies to recieve payment, ahem, it seems a large percentage of these Ltd Companies have not been paying tax for a number of years.......hmrc like to keep this one quiet..........food for thought.......
Cole & Co - Essex

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A developer could buy Ibrox and make it into flats - and before you say it's listed, I think it's only the facade, like Highbury, so as long as that's kept intact, the developer can do what they like with the rest.

That's all in theory, mind, as the market isn't the best for flats and the area isn't exactly the most salubrious either.

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Cant believe the country is in such a state wae all these financial advisors and tax lawyers that seem to appear from nowhere you cant even enjoy a (tainted) title win without thinking about rangers sad sad men

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A developer would offer an extremely low price owing to the fact he has to retain the listed facade, make it safe for residential development, ££££££S, and then have low to medium priced housing as the area is not the most desirable to anyone except Rangers FC and their fans, Tescos would do likewise, offers of 5-6 million probably because at the end of the day it is the land that carries the value unless you are a football club and land prices in Govan are very low......that is the reality, the stadium itself is worth next to nothing except for scrap value, one has also to consider the demolition costs and waste removal,££££££s again, there is no interest amongst creditors for liquidation as they will receive even less than 10 or 20p in the pound. this is the reality. survival for the RFC means £££££s to everyone especially Scottish Football make no mistake people

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Craig Whyte transferred Ibrox and Murray park assets ages ago, a VERY smart move by him indeed.

If we liquidate, creditors will get ZERO.
CVA will be agreed.

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HMRC should be punished for letting it go on for 10 years then, you cant just change the rules.

HMRC has been ripping off the tax payers since it began.

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"HMRC do not pussy foot about! how the feck has it took so long then ya rocket!"

Because they can't act on Tax evasion they don't know about.
The EBT illegality came about as a result of the 'bung' enquiry a few years back when the fraud squad were invetsigating illegal payments involving a number of football transfers.
One of those - in fact the last one to be signed off - was the transfer of Jean Alain Boumsong from RFC to NUFC.
Both clubs were raided. It was during this raid that documentation relating to the EBTs was seized and this was passed on to HMRC who set up an enquiry.
HMRC diligently pulled at the threads therein, built up evidence and then presented RFC with their findings. Directors of RFC were first warned that this was on the cards back in 2007 (or even earlier possibly).
It has taken years to reach this point because the RFC directors have denied, covered up, stalled and blurred at every stage while HMRC has doggedly pursued them. This lack of cooperation is one reason why HMRC will not cut any deals with RFC.

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Not sure about your optimism over HMRC accepting a pence to the pound deal or they get nothing. If they could get more out of Rangers by liquidating the club and selling the assets, then they'll do just that.

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Just a note on the 'tainted' dig. Do you actually know what the word means? For the title to be tainted, Celtic would have had to have done wrong. Celtic did nothing wrong. Celtic won the title by doing nothing wrong. Therefore, the title win is not tainted.
The only titles possibly tainted might be those won by Rangers whilst alledgedly operating outside of the financial laws of the UK, otherwise known as financial doping. So, regarding tainted titles, we have still to receive news on any possible tainted title wins.

The title won at Rugby park was certainly not tainted. Celtic did nothing wrong.

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Craig Whyte claims he's owed circa £30m.if he has a floating charge(This is disputed by D & P but they don't seem to have taken any legal steps to disprove it)then he'll get paid first,up to the value of his charge.We don't know what the bids are but none approach £30m.CW would therefore be taking every penny.Nothing left for other creditors inc HMRC,therefore no CVA.
If assets can be sold in liquidation for around 30m or a wee bit more,then CW will be paid in full.this could leave a small balance for other creditors.the CVA terms would be worthless to HMRC(lucky to reach 5p in the pound)so they would not accept a CVA,
anyone who thinks HMRC will take a couple of million because it's better than nothing is deluded.HMRC have rules regarding this.they can be found on their website.if they agreed to every CVA then no one would bother paying in full.Thay also don't agree CVAs if they consider tax evasion has taken place,and HMRC count EBTs as tax evasion.
there will almost certainly NOT be a CVA,no matter what D & P,Blue Knights,scottish media say.
Also,no matter what they say,somewhere along the line someone is going to have to deal with CW.He owns the place,whether we like it or not.

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For the 100th time........HMRC wont get "nothing" if rangers go in to liquidation! They will receive the majority percentage of any asset sell off!! Bloody hell, how many times is this c**p repeated!

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Whether HMRC 'get nothing depends upon what money is owed to secured creditors. Its poosible that the only person to get paid upon liquidation is Craig Whyte.

But this will not influence what HMRC do in any way.

HMRC want to send a simple message on tax... No one is beyond our reach. Pay what you owe or suffer oblivion. Liquidation for RFC suits them just fine... unless there is some scenario by which they can be paid in full of course!
Liquidation

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07 Apr 2012 20:19:13
When the confetti settles on the title party I'm afraid to say that the Celtic fans will concentate more on goading us about our financial situation than anything else, even winning the double means less to them than Rangers demise. We know we are up the creek without the paddle with our hopes being pinned on the new pretender to the Ibrox throne. But with each new pretender comes the overwhelming fact that more and more discussions and press releases point to liquidation. I wish Rangers fans would stop going to the worlds rich list every time there is a bid from a consortium or group from whatever country. They don't have to be in the top ten rich list for thier country, just enough cash and brains to get us the hell out of this in one piece and challenging for the title instead of crying about 10 point deductions and tainted titles!

Believable14 Unbelievable20

Hopefully we can avoid liquidation and get a cva to pay back some of the debt as a ger i would like to see all the debt paid off as for tainted titles i hate all this talk it makes us look bad losers celtic won the league fair and square we cant use that as a excuse our form dipped a bit ok we lost ten points some may say At the end of the day we were not good enoughwell done today against st mirren the lads played well should have been 5 -1 never mind congratulation to celtic hopefully we can get back to the top soon

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I am a celtic fan and you are are right we do enjoy ripping the p££s out of you's just now. but i hope you get through this and you are right in saying that the new owners have to be on a rich list. i hope you get someone with brains and takes the club in the right direction, for the sake of fans like you....and we need to beat you on the big stage so good luck.....b

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Another TIC fan here, yes we've had our fun ripping in but that is just oor culture I am afraid, we don't want to see you go our histories are interlinked good and bad. What you need is an owner and players who love the club like it was in days gone by, where it wasn't about the money but the pride and I think that goes for us as well.

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Fans like u are the reason for the hatred we will enjoy the championship and wait for the challenge next year, gd luck for the takeover and the decent rangers fans out there

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Rangers' demise brings out a mixture of emotions to a Celtic supporter.

First elation because it was initially so funny

Then disgust because of all that money you never paid the taxman. Money that could have been put to worthy causes like the health service and education.

And finally pity. Because we realize that the supporters of Rangers (although we don't pretend to like you) cannot in any way be blamed for the way the club has been run by spivs and crooks for all this time.

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Hector you must be a child or have a very short memory....During 1994 your shower of Hectors did nothing but take the serious p##s out of us for months....even sone hectors recorded sonds about our biscuit tin......now the tables have turned we are paying you back with interest....and yes some of us do want to see you die.....your history consigned to the books, because we know that you will suffer all the more as we remind the newco Rangers 2012 of your lost pass.....I won't apologise for paying you back, I will just enjoy it for many years to come.

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Speaking as a celtic fan, I celebrate the title win not the demise of Rangers.

I do find it strange however that a club so proud of it's loyalty to the crown fails to honour it's obligations to
HER MAJESTY'S revenue & customs. I guess that is more of a brand committment than an actual loyalty!

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Perm any four from the top 10 richest in Singarore with the Ng family and you have the richest club in the world (now thats what you call ironic and very very FUNNY)

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Guys Guys look if the boot was on the other foot, Rangers fans would be doing the same thing, at the end of the day, this forum is just a rumour forum. It is all banter. I would bet if a vote was held at the next home game for Celtic fans to decide weather Rangers be allowed to carry on next year in SPL the vote would be at least 60-40 FOR, it is a wind up site for all us guys who don't have the money to go to the pub and noise up our Rangers fan mates. The simple fact is as fans we have no way of sorting out this mess that was caused by greedy businessmen. who got too ambitious.

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07 Apr 2012 19:18:51
Could someone clarify if Rangers are liquidated and re-start as a 'newco', still play at Ibrox, still called Rangers etc etc but on official headed paper are registered as something different (in the small print so to speak).........??

Believable12 Unbelievable10

As Rangers have assets i.e. the stadium, training facilities and players then liquidation becomes difficult. I have said many times there is NO prospect of Rangers being liquidated as the creditors would block such a move. Under all circumstances a liquidated company does not pay any creditor. The nonsense you have heard about liquidation and HRMC is not law. Companies have to have a period whereby they post notice of there intention to be struck off, however if you check any company intending to go down tho path with companies house you will find that they will remain in this state until the creditors are satisfied there are no assets let to sell before they allow the company to be struck off. Rangers have assets worth over 100 million and the stadium is a grade one listed building. NO CHANCE OF LIQUIDATION TRUST ME.

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As long as the assets are worth more than 100million, given rangers knee deep in claims of misdealing in contracts,tax,ni,paye, what if the claims (elsewhere on the interweb) that the stadium. Value has been inflated as part of this tax avoidance scheme..........??.

As poster states if you have assets to cover you debts you can avoid liquidation..... But in a fire sale the stadium will half its value, Murray park is only worth something to the sfa, and if the players can walk away in the summer they have no value as assets..........

Who knows.....

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You will be liquidated when the big bill lands. Fact based on factual information.

Believe it or don't believe but I'd like to see the look on your face when it happens. You'll be sitting playing with your bottom lip going 'bibble bibble' where did my club go.

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Big tax bill is actually £24m with £11m added on for fines.
rangers dont own ibrox or murray park, craig whyte does.
team will be liquidated in june and started as new club straight away and leasing the ground and training Facilities from whyte who wont agree to sell until his £30m valuation is met.

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Hector the post important thing about the newco 2012 is that it won't have any history.....140 years of Rangers will be wiped out by the signing of your new company.....oh happy day when it comes.

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Timothy- u cannot erase history
keep dreaming about those 54 titles lad
always in our shadows
WATP

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Creditors get nothing if club is liquidated??. Thought the point of liquidation was if you cant pay your debt then everything gets sold to pay the debt. May not be the entire debt but every creditor gets in line for a share of what monies is raised by the sale of all assets. As for listed buildings that applies to the main building as far as I'm aware the park and terraces are a different kettle of fish so those who dismiss liquidation do so at there peril

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07 Apr 2012 18:52:54
I don't care anymore what happens we just need it sorted ASAP so we can get in with it.
Let's face it were screwed anyway and if a buyer liquidated now the debt follows to a newco so I don't see the benefit of it, or am I not seeing something?

Believable16 Unbelievable9

All debts die on liquidation. Newco would be unencumbered. Not a dignified way to behave. But legal nevertheless.

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Not sure if that is correct regarding Newco debt . Some say it does carry over. Others say that is not the case. But be sure all the 'experts' will set you straight before long.

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Debt does not follow newco. Lot of malicious rumermongering. Going on

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Not all dedts are cleared hmrc will have to be payed new laws brought out 6.4.2012 so if found guilty we owe them 75 million would be no point in liquidation ... Kenny bluenose

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I believe the point of liquidation was that the debt was paid as much as possible by selling the comany assets off. Cant see how a purchaser of these assets could be saddled with debt from the previous owner.

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Its total confusion dont think anybody knows whats going to happen

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Well done to the players today nice win well done heres the hard bit well done celtic fc congratulations we will be back tho

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New law cancelled no debts carried forward (inc HMRC), the 6th of April a red herring.

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As stated earlier, the new law allows HMRC to demand upfront SECURITY (i.e. prepayment) against FUTURE tax liabilities where there is good reason to believe that these could be evaded or withheld.
Any Company started by Craig Whyte hendceforth would probably come into this category. Whether a newco Rangers would depends very much on who was running it.

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Yes,there is new new law,it got put on back burner because it was unenforceable by law.

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Bought and sold for bankers gold by a pocketful of rougues in your boardroom

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What new laws?
Has anyone cited a piece of new legislation?
If not can they do say
ED, any chance you could clarify or refuse to post anything with "new law" written in it until someone names an act?
Cheersies
Nevis

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The new law relating to HMRC you refer to is asking for prepayment of a coming tax year for an existing business who have a poor history of payment. Would not apply to a newco, irrespective of who the directors are. A newco gets a clean start from all creditors and trading history starts as day zero.

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Can anyone answer this question for me? If there is a Newco, what happens to Ibrox. Would the Newco have to rent/buy the stadium off the creditors (D and P say its worth over 100 000 000 ) and if so where would that money come form.

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07 Apr 2012 18:47:58
Can someone tell me the total of both funds that were set up?

Believable2 Unbelievable8

When we repay the public purse and further repay strathclyde polis + the ambulance services we can hold our heads high even if it does mean 3rd div.

It is a bit tough being known as theiving s***bags - we can fix this. Why does FF not pay the polis + ambulance????????

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Com'on no one involved with Rangers gives out true figures, Guess a figure then deduct 60% for yourself thats the Rangers way.

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07 Apr 2012 17:48:18
Listening to radio Clyde Graham spires and Fraser wishart
Saying they have heard that rangers have lost the BTC and rangers have put in an appeal ..How the Fu*k have we not heard .Is this how we have been hearing talk of liquidation from ally duff and phelps

Believable11 Unbelievable30

..Nonsense...total and utter drivel,the decision on the btc is not yet public knowledge..end of...big dee.

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Rangers have already been found guilty!
The First Tier Tribunal IS the appeal. That's the result we're waiting on.

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Usual our supporters have been kept in the dark no one really knows whats going on ps congratulations celtic hopefully our title will be back home next year

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No, the current case is an appeal from Rangers is what they said.

GovanFR

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This will be the killer the rounds of Appeals if Rangers lose they appeal, and if HMRC lose they appeal and in the middle is the Rangers Fans who have no appeal

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It's in Rangers best interest to lose the tax case as if we won it could drag on for years also not in hmrc best interest not to accept cva as this is the best way they have of getting the most money

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That no appeal speech has put a smile on my face.

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...Rangers Fans who have no appeal...

A little unintentional honesty there "-)

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Don't think us losing the btc is the issue its how much we owe which is being queried I thought?

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If Rangers lose this appeal,they can ask the tribunal for permission to appeal to the "Upper House".They cannot however,appeal any amounts ruled as owing.They can only appeal on points of law,eg,If they feel HMRC presented their case incorrectly,etc.
however,if a further appeal is allowed,all monies awarded by the FTT, MUST BE PAID IN FULL immediately.If RFC win at the Upper house,then this money must be returned in full along with any accrued interest.I don't think we could afford this,and before anyone comes back with a snide remark,this is the law.

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The tax case is decided in a court of law and as such we will all be made aware at the same time. judges are not in the habit of revealing judgement to anyone before its public knowledge. anyone claiming to know should be ashamed and made to explain where the got the information. IF he has been told by a judge then the whole process is void.

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HMRC and RFC will be informed of the judgement shortly before it is published on the Court register website (couple of days)

The ONLY scenario where this rumour could be true would be as follows:

1.Judge alerted rangers administrators of the judgement.
2. Administrators leaked this to the Press (directly or indirectly) but did not announce it themselves.

If this is what has happened, it could be true. Otherwise its bunkum.

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They may be of the opinion that rangers have lost the BTC but do not believe that that Rangers have put in an appeal as I believe that to do so the full amount must be paid upfront. If the appeal is won money returned + interest

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Hearing rumours Blue Knights bid has been eliminateted and liquidation at end of season. this also could mean no Ger's next season as it could take up to 7 weeks to process Newco and the deadline is 1st. June

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Both parties will be informed of the result before public release(only a few days before,i'm told).
As regards next season,technically,we don't have an SPL licence and our SFA licence runs out at the end of April.If we don't meet the criteria,we won't be able to play anywhere.To get an SFA licence,any newco would have to produce 3 years audited accounts.Don't see how we could do that if newco hasn't even been set up yet.The SFA and SFL could leave themselves open to all sort of legal challenges from smaller clubs like spartans,cove Rangers etc,who've been trying to join SFL for years and meet the required criteria.One way round this,I suppose is to try and buy another club with a licence(remember St Mirren story last week).Almost impossible,who's going to kill their club to allow Rangers newco to play.we may not be playing anywhere next season.

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07 Apr 2012 15:28:58
the 30 second red card display was a bit of a damp squib....the new buyers waiting on the touchline must be encouraged by this demonstration of defiance.

Believable13 Unbelievable11

According to the radio it wasnt a damp squib.

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Did you have a party ??red card display lol

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According to the tv pictures it was a damp squib.

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Seen it on rangers tv the pieces of card were too small, that's why it looked pants! Someone should have made them 2 or 3 times the size. Usual it cost more money.

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I was at the game (govan front) and the cards worked really well.

Will it make a difference, probably not but what else can fans do?

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What else can the fans do?
WALK AWAY !
The end is nigh!
Buy For a Quid and Craig will WAK AWAY WITH Millions he a total legend

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Craig Whyte like all Rangers fans doesn't do walking away.

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What game were you at or watching as the red cards shown by the supporters for at least 1 minute on two occasions and when st mirren had a player sent off

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07 Apr 2012 15:03:11
Bill miller plans to liquidate rangers despite what the papers are saying, darrell king

Believable30 Unbelievable19

What does daryll 'doomsday' king know ?
does he know Bill Miller personally ? does he have inside info? or is he just headline-grabbing again ?

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And Darrel King knows this how exactly? is he a mind reader?

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How the hell would he no what Bill Miller is intending to, this is the same guy who said he had seen the two contracts then changed his mind by saying that it was a letter of intent he saw so i wouldn't beleive everything he says

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Sorry lads but have u read what this miller guy said? it was something along the lines of "find a creative way of clearing the debt while preserving the history of the club" thats just a fancy way of saying asset sale to a newco, which is a fancy way of saying liqudation, if its not TBK we are in trouble, the far east mob sound like clowns

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Darrel king knows nuthing just makes things up wenever he feels like it he needs to bring a fairy tale book out cause thats all he does tell aload of fairys

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King has proclaimed, at least 3 times to my knowledge, in the last few weeks that we would be liquidated on specific dates, and we're still here. TMcG

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Loving the irony of the literary genius who posted the reply that begins 'Darrel king knows nuthing...'

Wonder if they realise the irony of accusing someone else of knowing 'nuthing'.

Class ;)

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Rangers Fc will not be liquidated, this week, next week or any time in the near future, too many buffoons and biased clowns posting texts on this site, hmrc do not do deals, yeah right, are any of you doubters familiar with the workings of a PLC or a LTD CO, if you are how many of you have recieved a call inviting you down to discuss the tax owed, now come on be truthful, after a load of hmrc correpondence, then you pop along, have a little interview and agree how much you can pay, either immediately or over an arranged period, immediately means less, over an aranged period means more, very simple, to all the scaremongers who claim hmrc do not do deals, what about companies house , are they the same, utter rubbish , if someone, or an entity owes tax and offers to pay a percentage of it instead of nothing a deal can be done, the singapore group know this, lets face the facts here, they know the deals to be done with UK companies and HMRC, Hong Kong and Singapore Companies, is there not a bit of back and forth to be had here, waken up people, most large business takeovers and transactions stink to the high heaven, this one will be no different.......

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Bill miller is connected to club 9 and is planning to liquidate rangers.

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Agree heard him today Also know someone who works at BBC and they told me this last week.

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" Rangers Fc will not be liquidated, this week, next week or any time in the near future. "
----------------------------------------
Of course they will be liquidated, the debt structure makes this inevitable, no offer will exceed the break down value of RFC.

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07 Apr 2012 13:57:09
This is officially not the Champions' page now.

Believable38 Unbelievable26

I wonder what the hectors will be singing today.

Stand by your team.

How much is that team in admin, the one with the wonderful owner.

Its crying time again.

Any other nominations for the hectors top 10.

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Rangers fan here congratulations to celtic fc hopefully we will be back soon enjoy your day

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Winning a 43rd league title is so 1993...jsm

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It will be 2293 before the necom Rangers 2012, will even be able to dream of a 43rd title. The angel of insolvency is hanging over Hectors house, awaiting to put in the final nail in Hectors coffin.
We will soon have the best history of any surviving club in world football.

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Ah there,s always next year ? garlar07

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Celtic still have to prove themselves worthy champions. They must win this league by more than 10 points to do that. I have no doubt they will however even still it is a bit too early to be gloating

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Celtic have won the league by more than 10 points. It doesn't matter now - would Rangers not rest some players now if they'd won and still had the chance of a cup to add to the league?

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Im dreading work on tuesday but congratulation to celtic at the end of the day we only have ourselves to blame all the points we dropped bad performances the top of the league table never lies well done celtic

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To Hector who said Celtic still have to prove themselves....were you Hectors not 14 points clear by late October....Had the Hector players been professionals they would never have thrown away that sort of a lead....its shows the mentality of the clowns who play for Hectors.

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I don't suppose kilmarnock lay down to celtic today. celtic fans crack me up.

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This is now the official Shame(IA) page. blame Jim Delahunt I say...........

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Celtic still have to prove themselves worthy champions. They must win this league by more than 10 points to do that. I have no doubt they will however even still it is a bit too early to be gloating
To this moron: how is the drug addiction going for you? Celtic far and away best team, before any Gers fan talks about fixtures between the 2, look at last season. Celtic the champs by far and will dominate for years, Rangers...or whatever they will be called next year, having had at least 3-4 titles stripped from their history for being cheats, have a long way to go to match Sir Neil Lennon! God bless all here.

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Fellow bears to be a rangers fan we have to take the good with the bad ok very disapointing for us congratulations to celtic players and fans well played

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Celtic and Mr Lennon have proven with the utmost class and dignity that Celtic are worthy champions. All the bombs,bullets and personal attacks has proven one thing, that Mr Lennon doesn't do walking away.

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This is the shame page? I thought celtoc were charged twoce by uefa this season, as well as their manager being charged three times in a week, on top of strathclyde police and match delegates reporting your club for its shameful singing?

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^^^ you seriously want to go into Uefa charges, I mean really are you stupid enough to pick that argument?

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Well played today rangers good result under the circumstances as a gers fan and football fan i would like to congratulate celtic on their championship win its not a easy feat hopefully we can win our title back next year

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Agreed, congrats to Celtic on winning the league, you wanted it more and credit where its due, Lennon got you through a rough start to the season and on to a great run of wins. You've earned the league.
These past couple of seasons have been a bit of a roller coaster, hoping next year we'll have a bit more stability, less off-field nonsense and can concentrate on talking about the football. Also hoping the idiot 'supporters' that can't even enjoy your win without spewing all the negative and bitter (I mean, name calling, really?), can grow up a little.

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One thing i can say gers fans love the rangers tic fans love the celtic which is allowed as a rangers fan i tell it as it is if we played rubbish il admit it if we played well i admit it over this season as a whole we were up and down the top of the table never lies so in my books celtic deserve to be spl champions this year no arguements from me in the matter

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07 Apr 2012 13:16:43
i know you prob wont post this ed, but its got to be said. anyone who believes anything jim delahvnt has to say about his chats with cw clearly needs there heads looked, this is an anchorman for what used to be a creditable radio phone in programme, he has been nothing but ignorant to the rangers plight in recent weeks hes even cracking jokes about our stadiums use next year, quote- i think asda might have something to say about tesco wanting to build a supermarket here, honestly listen to him from now on and you will see the negativity running out of him about anything rangers. as far as im concerned he is a disgrace to his profession and his days a radio host should be numbered. col.

Believable39 Unbelievable16

I have never heard so much nonsense in all my life. i have been a rangers season ticket holder for over 10 years and listen to clyde 1 every night. i just don't know where you are coming from. jim delahunt is good guy who shows no bias or favourtism, certainly hasn't been mocking rangers.

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What are your thoughts on Jim White?

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Oh dear it's Jim delahunts fault now is it
Your rangers till July !

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Nah mate keep him on the radio spouting his tripe, I mean we don't want his ugly mug back on the telly now, do we? He makes Mick jagger look like George clooney
PaulRFC

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(OP) Hector cant you take a joke.you were all very happy enjoying handing out the manure in 94...now the tables are turned you can't laugh at what was a very funny joke.

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Shall I have a look for your dummy son??

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You will be wanting Peter Martin back then?

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Don't you have a sense of humour pal , personally I've grown up listening to super score board and love it good times and bad times it's about opinions so if you don't like it don't listen poster simples !

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How sad can you lot get?It's Jim Delac***s fault!! lmao

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Quite right, i heard him say the other day when the admins. announced there were 4 bids on the table that it was 3 more then he expected... he must be a financial expert as well eh! negative or what?

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Not unlike your taody mouthpieces like Chic Young and the rest of BBC Sportsound! GET A GRIP!

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Fellow bears lighten up its a bit of tounge and cheek

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07 Apr 2012 12:27:40
Craig Whyte claims he is due £30 million, where did he get that figure from? He only spent £1.

Also do you think he is publicly stating this figure as this is what he wants the preferred bidder to pay for buying Rangers.

Believable14 Unbelievable6

He paid £1 and then money to cover £18 million debt - so call it £18million and 1.

In settling the £18million debt he had the power to set whatever interest rate he (85% majority owner of the club) wished.
So he sets an interest rate than now means £30million, and if he not bought off soon, at start of next season is £40 million, etc etc eventually he will own all of rangers if it wins the BTC.

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I think this is the @ value of the Assets after Liquidation, therefore, crditors will get very little and thus make CVA a more likely option to them. New buyer pays CVA and I would hope that CW would then sell the assets to the new owner or even better the fans for a reasonable fee. As he has stated, Rangers will be in a better position for his actions. Time will tell i suppose...

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At the moment only a fool would pay anything to buy the Hectors..... More misery around the corner for Hector fans, when you lose the BTC....

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Stick it on the tab craig nae bother pal

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He says he has £30m in guarantees and cash on the line if Gers liquidate, dont read too much into it, he wont get a bean

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He's still not paid the £40 for that long John silver face paint he had done. The wee cad he is.....Catweazle-talkingbone.

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CW allegedly gave guarantees to Ticketus for c£30million. This is the amount he feels he is exposed for if Ticketus do not get their money back. He will therefore try to extract as much as he can from any potential buyer for his shareholding.

The administrators are empowered to deal with the assets of the club, as they see fit, in the best interests of the creditors, but as things stand cannmot hand over the shares.
If they had thought that liquidation was in the interest of creditors they would have done so at the outset.
My view is that a sum of money will be paid for the assets and intellectual property of the club. This sum will form the basis of the CVA. The purchaser will have to do a side deal with CW for his shareholding.
The unknown in all of this is the big tax case, which may force liquidation at a later date, unless HMRC have given indications otherwise.

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I have frequently posted my feelings regarding THE WEE LIAR and just when you think things are getting quieter from him he again shows his true motivation for acquiring Rangers. Money for him and sod the consequences for the club.

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On the one hand you value his ibrox stadium at 109 million and on the other hand you ask why he wants 30 million.

he owns rangers and its assets.

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Lol I just read on tribal football days after cw took control I quote we are now debt free haha guy should be jailed we r still the people

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He's a magician. Managed to "pay off" the debt using Ticketus' money and at the same time leave himself as creditor. Clever.

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Considering that £20 + Million of that is fans money, he is really taking the piss!

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£1 gave hime 85% of shares + Ibrox, murray park & car park
he holds all the cards . any bid must pay him. shrewed man

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