04 Jan 2024 20:28:38
The statements issued by SFA and Rangers don't seem to have cleared up anything other than confirming our ruling body is more interested in covering their backs rather than making progress. What do they mean by 'subjective' handball?

Does this mean the referee saw it clearly and deemed it ok? Then VAR agreed as 'not clear and obvious error'? If this was the case then release the conversation and that would end it. BUT if the referee saw the ball hit the hand then why call goal-kick? The argument about the offside is also subjective. Yes, if a penalty is given then they would check for offside. But Sima didn't play the ball so the referee would have to decide whether he was involved in the passage of play NOT VAR. Am I correct in thinking the order should be.

1. VAR refers referee to check penalty.

2. Ref awards penalty or not.

3. If penalty awarded, VAR checks PROPERLY for possible offside.

4. If Sima is in an offside position, ref has to decided whether he is active.

The new rules on offside mean that it isn't as obvious as it once was regarding 'interfering with play'.
Whether we would have been given the penalty, or scored it, or if it changed the game is secondary to ensuring proper rules and procedures are followed. The FA down south had the hawmaws to accept errors were made.

Why do the SFA have to be so stubborn? I don't believe the referees are corrupt or biased. But they are human and make mistakes. There is also the pressure that has been put on them to ensure that big decisions in big games at important times don't go against Celtic for fear of the media backlash etc. Hopefully in the coming days the full transcript will be released.

1.) 04 Jan 2024
04 Jan 2024 20:46:42
How could sims not be active He is in the way of Johnston playing the ball.

2.) 04 Jan 2024
04 Jan 2024 20:52:14
Excellent post BearAbroad. Very balanced and helpful.

3.) 04 Jan 2024
04 Jan 2024 21:12:35
IFAB Law11 states: "A player in an offside position is moving towards the ball with the intention of playing the ball is fouled in the penalty area (in this case handball) before playing the ball or challenging an opponent for the ball". Referees decision is: "It is a penalty kick. The foul is penalised as it has occurred before the offside offence". This is why linesman don't raise their flag until after the phase of play.

4.) 04 Jan 2024
04 Jan 2024 21:52:38
My tuppence worth, Johnston tried to pull Sima back and hit the ball in the process. Penalty.
There is apparently footage showing Sima onside when ball was played?
Johnston last man to play the ball either way, goalkick?
IT STINKS.

5.) 04 Jan 2024
04 Jan 2024 21:56:32
I honestly think we need to look further than this pen incident as this is just the tip of the iceberg . Since we returned to the top flight of Scottish football, we have seen a constant campaign from the club across the city at all levels from the board to ex players, the media and their fans.

Every decision that is made in Rangers favour, whether it was 100% correct or it was contentious was made because the referees fav Rangers and want to help them or they are anti celtic. we have had referee post match hand shakes zoomed in, referees tarred as Mason for smiling at our manager, referees schools ie which one they went to.

What pub they drink in, car scratched and houses vandalised. They make a decision against them they are forever know as brother whatever. Every referee stat that's have ever been produced, highlighted as evidence of a conspiracy against celtic. This campaign is clearly working as i fully believe that referees are scared to awarded the major decision in matches against celtic for fear of the backlash.

So personally I'm glad that our board and manager are starting to question these decisions, however they need to be going further, when the likes of Sutton ect make little digs, even when Rangers aren't playing on national TV when a referee makes a decision in the other teams fav, referring to Rangers in a derogatory manner, simply is not acceptable and our club need to challenging this. Also challenging active staff from across the city taking part in you tube videos and doc encouraging and supporting this narrative.

6.) 04 Jan 2024
04 Jan 2024 22:07:08
Storm your up against it, but your right as in the correct decision ??.

7.) 04 Jan 2024
04 Jan 2024 22:22:29
Here here stewarty.

Doing nothing is no longer an option folks.

8.) 05 Jan 2024
04 Jan 2024 22:48:24
Var said no penalty so why 20 matenites later Oh Sima is offside? Wee Willie's ares getting covered.

9.) 05 Jan 2024
05 Jan 2024 00:57:46
I wasn't sure so just watched it back, He may be offside as the ball is played as in loads of set pieces these days but AJ touched the ball first and at no point did Sima touch the ball or was in an advantageous position, clear pen arm was outside the profile of the body regardless if it was accidental or not, just like Souters in the week, IFAB rules.

10.) 05 Jan 2024
05 Jan 2024 01:30:47
I’m all for the club sticking up for what they believe is right or wrong from the officials but Christ I’m sick of hearing about this, all the hype around this decision has completely covered up the bigger issue that that lot probably should’ve had 2 or more players sent off before balogun was and what does it take for Callum McGregor to get book he could have had 3 bookings before the token gesture late on in the game.

11.) 05 Jan 2024
05 jan 2024 04:44:22
mcgregor wouldn't last 5 mins against the likes of fergusons, et al, like broon he's staying here because he knows he couldn't compete in epl, and nobody wants him, again like broon, so its our fault we havnt found a midfield to put him in his place, beale allowed him to stroll around ibrox, clement went with wrong tactics, imo, surely he now sees what's required, mcgregor is nowhere close to being a top midfielder, its almost surreal how refs protect him.

i'm still angry at the decisions, but i'm equally angry the manager didn't see in those circumstances a european gameplan was neeed.

12.) 05 Jan 2024
05 Jan 2024 06:53:34
From the evidence I saw it was the correct decision.

I did not see a still of the ball contact AJ’s hand therefore subjective.

It was offside so - penalty call irrelevant.

We are in theory only 2 points behind them - just need to win every game between now and the end of the season.

The RFC management should take a good look at themselves, and look at what is happening in Turkey.

My Tuppence.

13.) 05 Jan 2024
05 Jan 2024 07:27:57
Why was offside even checked, you have to assume that both ref and var decided there was no hand ball, as goal kick was given, so why check for off side after game has resummed, other than fact you realise you have made mistake and know it will be highlighted so Colum is looking to cover up the fact, which is what Rangers are trying to highlight. SfA will never acknowledge this,

14.) 05 Jan 2024
05 Jan 2024 07:35:35
Superb post bear abroad ???.

15.) 05 Jan 2024
05 Jan 2024 08:18:03
Good Morning Stormtrooper and Imhere, the Offside theory is totally wrong folks, Sima was onside when Lundstrum played the ball, as such it matters not a jot where he was when he received the ball, or didn't, as he is onside. The handball was Johnson blatantly playing the ball with his hand as opposed to the Ball to hand which could be deemed as accidental, so guys, I have to totally disagree with you both, respectfully of course.

16.) 05 Jan 2024
05 Jan 2024 08:37:25
Spot on re McGregor, Tom. This guy floats about the park as if he's Baggio when the reality is he is very ordinary and wouldn't get near a top flight team in England. The Ibrox game sickened me, as Beale did nothing to nullify any impact he might have. And bizarrely, even with the freedom of Ibrox, we should still have won the game.

17.) 05 Jan 2024
05 Jan 2024 08:55:27
Thank you for the comments. Regarding the offside, recent rules mean that a player is not automatically offside as Johnston played the ball first. There have been plenty of examples of this. Not least the goal that won the Nations League. The referee would have to decide. I agree with other posts about second yellow cards etc. But whether we agree or disagree, at least the referee made the call. The whole process in this case was flawed and took the referee out of the equation. VAR is supposed to help referees not replace.

18.) 05 Jan 2024
05 Jan 2024 08:55:36
A few posters have said that referrers other than Scottish should be brought in for the Old Firm games, I would concur with that. Not all Scottish refs are bias but some most surely are. If we forget about the penalty decision, there were still other iffy decisions in that game on Celtic’s side? Bad fouls blatant shirt tugging.

19.) 05 Jan 2024
05 Jan 2024 08:57:57
That's a very well written post, BearAbroad.

20.) 05 Jan 2024
05 Jan 2024 09:26:14
Question
Who drew the lines 30 minutes after the decision of no hand ball to show offside in the faze of play,
VAR officials or Sky?
If it was Sky then I’m assuming it wasn’t with the same process and technology that VAR use,
If it was VAR officials then why would they need to as they ruled it was not a hand ball,
Sima is a very quick player therefore split seconds for timing and correct angles count when proving an offside offence,
My take,
Handball decision was wrong and should have been ruled as a penalty,
They then should have went through due and proper process with offside to rule if penalty should have been awarded,
The audios should then have been given to both teams directly after the match,

21.) 05 Jan 2024
05 Jan 2024 09:26:19
Too many people happy to brush over this game.

Someone even saying the correct decision was made, even when they hadnt seen the images of the offside. eh? cannot make it up! LOL

The issue isn't even the penalty decision, it is the quality of the refs and their decision making. Again at least two Celtic players should have been double yellowed.

Celtic have done a very good job at complaining so much that refs and SFA are scared. Yet when Gers complain about obvious terrible decisions, we are told to shut up.

Stand and fight I say. How can our game get better when refs are terrible and favour one team.

22.) 05 Jan 2024
05 Jan 2024 09:42:12
Listen we can all feel hard done by at times and it won’t change. I remember a game at Celtic Park where Collum had actually gave a penalty with his back turned and basically he said he heard contact, I’m sure it was broadfoot who went down but c'mon 60k fans in stadium and he heard contact ??‍♂️ yes I think he’s terrible at his job and prone to be known for this. He’s made a meal of the penalty decision but I still believe it would have been offside had it been looked at properly. So to say he is biased I think that’s not true just crap at his job full stop.

23.) 05 Jan 2024
05 Jan 2024 09:46:19
The argument has nothing to do with a pen now, it’s about Collum lying, he realised not giving the pen was not a good look after everyone in sky panel saying it was a stonewaller and tried to get out it with the offside half n hour later, been caught doing so the question why did he think he had to do that instead of sticking with his original decision, he panicked like a kid being caught with his hand in the sweetie jar.

24.) 05 Jan 2024
05 Jan 2024 09:50:52
I really didn't like our clubs statement, thought it was poor.

We reviewed the incident at a coaching workshop with a couple of SPFL refs last night and it was pretty interesting.

The conclusion we reached was;

Ref must have thought it was Simas body that deflected the ball out - hence goal-kick.

VAR review must have concluded that the hand ball didn't meet the threshold for a clear and obvious error.

VAR can't overrule the goal-kick and award a corner.

Would be interesting to hear the conversation to understand how they got to the "clear and obvious" conclusion - both referees at the session last night disagreed with the VAR decision.

If VAR did award the hand ball, the general consensus was that it would have been overruled by the offside.

25.) 05 Jan 2024
05 Jan 2024 10:16:09
Its not that we didn't get a pen, its that the ref missed it and gave a goal kick which tbf to him its was hard to see from his point of view, the issue is that VAR see the handball and decide the ref hasn't made a clear and obvious error (he has) and don't A, say its a pen or B, ask him to make the decision, if either decide its len, then theh check for issues in the build up. They made so many incorrect decision its a farce.

26.) 05 Jan 2024
05 Jan 2024 10:23:21
Absolutely EHL, time to move on everyone ??.

27.) 05 Jan 2024
05 Jan 2024 11:00:53
Another thing that has got on my tits for a while is. How many yards the Celtic full backs steal Whilst walking forward waving hands and shouting with ball in hand, All to distract the linesman and ref, The rules should be the same as in a free kick, A line should be drawn. ???????????.

28.) 05 Jan 2024
05 Jan 2024 11:32:31
Thank you portger. Fed up saying it but Sima was indeed onside at the exact moment the ball leaves Lundstram's foot, therefore the correct decision has most definitely not been arrived at.

29.) 05 Jan 2024
05 Jan 2024 12:07:59
Again too many people still going off the doctored picture and saying that it was offside when in fact Sima was not offside.

Any other game and its a stonewall penalty and likely booking for the defender.

30.) 05 Jan 2024
05 Jan 2024 14:12:32
The reason this has been raised is, why was the offside checked at all and why was the video released 25 mins later. Once Collum decides that it was not a penalty there is no need for VAR to draw the lines and certainly no need to put it out to the broadcasters.
Sima was not offside blocking off Johnston it was earlier and even that decision was shady . He did not touch the ball or make any attempt to do so and in fact he had his back to the play AND the video released shows the lines being drawn after Lundstram had kicked it. The penalty decision was one that makes us all angry but it is what happened afterwards that makes it look like cheating and a cover up.

31.) 05 Jan 2024
05 Jan 2024 17:30:57
Jasper the offside is before the handball so why are you on about ?.

32.) 05 Jan 2024
05 Jan 2024 17:36:03
Port he was offside as he was stopping Johnston from playing the ball
Sima doesn’t need to touch it how many people can actually read the rules properly on here.

33.) 05 Jan 2024
05 Jan 2024 17:36:45
Have you proof of that seeker Am still waiting to see proof only think we have seen is he is offside and port isn’t talking about when it leaves Lunny foot either.

34.) 05 Jan 2024
05 Jan 2024 17:38:22
Correct ehl but you can’t tell anyone on here as they have “read the rules” ?‍♂️.

35.) 05 Jan 2024
05 Jan 2024 21:36:29
Storm, there's a still photo doing the rounds showing the exact moment Lundstram played the ball. Guess what, Sima was actually onside at that point.