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29 Feb 2024 14:52:59
Every week in different leagues, although we are only concerned with one league and team, we see very controversial VAR decisions. My claim is not that VAR is useless, but that the efficacy is undermined by the operating procedures. Those procedures being that the flawed human decisions of one are being checked by more flawed humans.
I'm curious to see what other posters might think of a potential future scenario where VAR decisions are run by Artificial Intelligence. In this scenario, once VAR could be programmed with enough variants of every scenario, it would take decisions based on objectivity and would certain remove any suggestion of bias.
Although I'm sure that many fans would not want machine learning taking decisions, I wonder if there is an alternative that would be more correct more of the time?
Maybe that could be a poll, I don't know how that works but option 1 could be: train humans better to operate VAR and option 2: use machine learning in VAR
Thank you.
{Ed033's Note - Poll is: Would you like to see VAR operated by machine learning artificial intelligence computers or better trained humans?
VAR Poll
1.) 29 Feb 2024 15:40:20
Good question human will never get it correct 100% of time, if machine couldn't get any decisions wrong don't see why not.
2.) 29 Feb 2024 16:09:45
I don’t even like VAR gets involved far to much should only be clear and obvious gets used in every offside that leads to a goal if a player is a inch off side is that clear and obvious Var needs better trained officials and to only get involved if the ref has obviously missed something by a mile imo.
3.) 29 Feb 2024 16:10:40
My Star, I think we should definitely consider that because the probability would be that AI would be correct more often than a human operator. Although I also think that there would be another human level above the AI, which would be deployed in the event of a unique scenario which had not been included in the machine learning data set.
4.) 29 Feb 2024 16:20:51
At least a computer wouldn't be a Celtic supporter operating var.
5.) 29 Feb 2024 16:31:34
It would be interesting to say use the Scottish league cup as a pilot with foreign refs as the VAR team and see how it pans out. Using independent referees and VAR teams would be worth a try.
6.) 29 Feb 2024 16:40:24
AI is only as good as the info it is supplied.
You could feed it to be bias against certain players by telling it they go down too easily.
Or feed it bias against a certain team.
Easily manipulated.
AI is not the be all and end all and that’s from someone who knows someone who is currently studying it as part of his Uni degree.
7.) 29 Feb 2024 20:24:18
AI gets a C.V. to favour Celtic over Rangers,
Not for me I’m afraid,
Humans make errors but can usually be held to account,
VAR’s only in the early stages and needs improvement and it’s probably here to stay but for me should be run by human intelligence.
8.) 29 Feb 2024 20:48:09
Interesting MPH poll about machine learning, are you smart enough to bypass protected reason protocols and leave no trace of manipulation. You maybe correct it's not be all/ end all, security design in Ai can have said protections in place to eradicate outside influences and highlight protocol changes, Double edged sword, unless totally structured to include all necessary parameters required for decision learning process then its 50/ 50.
9.) 29 Feb 2024 21:29:02
I think tattie is right, it could definitely be manipulated, but if it was done good and proper by the right ppl, it would work brilliantly. Ai is getting used so much now, could help with a lot of the problems we have on earth right now, but the worry is that it could become to powerful.
10.) 29 Feb 2024 21:52:36
Not terminator just yet BB but hey who knows ?.
11.) 29 Feb 2024 21:56:59
He isnt.
12.) 29 Feb 2024 22:48:24
AI? That’s up there with the blue card rubbish just no.
13.) 29 Feb 2024 22:54:14
Implementing VAR with AI promises faster, more consistent decisions, reducing human error and bias. However, AI might struggle with subjective calls. Human referees offer experience, empathy, and contextual judgment, enhancing the game's integrity. Yet, they remain prone to error and bias. A hybrid approach, combining AI for objective rulings and human oversight for subjective calls, could offer the best solution
Well that's what AI ChatGPT says anyway ?
My two pence is let refs ref the game, technology for offside and over goal line and give each side 3 uses of VAR a game if they want to challenge a refs decision, like in tennis.
14.) 29 Feb 2024 23:08:10
RDB the computer learns and predicts without programming, enhanced in deep learning with algorithms for datasets/ patterns-decisions/ predictions, including explainable Ai allows better understanding/ decisions and interpretation, which in turn allows security in trust and bias.
15.) 01 Mar 2024 08:40:28
Still think rugby has it correct with the TMO and visible to everyone while being discussed, AI in var could be gd, but would require massive initial technical input to allow the AI to actually learn and evolve. Teething probs 100%, same as we have now, it's a 50/ 50 thing for me if it works correctly.
16.) 01 Mar 2024 09:23:59
AI interests me in normal life, I don't like Var as is, if improved whether by AI or better implemented instruction to ref/ var assistant's for decision making, then maybe. Makes no difference cause we all like a moan, needs to be more decisive, rules are as clear and complex as mud.
17.) 01 Mar 2024 10:05:35
to write the code for VAR to be run by AI would be extortionate. with all the variables that need to be entered just wouldn't make it worth it.
18.) 01 Mar 2024 13:11:51
Sounds too much like common sense huey, they won't wear it, bud, like the concept though, offside and goal line tech is a no-brainer, unsure about the 3 challenges though??.
30 Jul 2022 13:25:03
Although I believe Barasic and McLaughlin had a role to play in the goal, Souttar hasn't impressed me at all. Whilst I believe that of course we need to give players a chance and that it takes time to adapt to a new style of play, I also don't think that a competitive match with points at stake is where you do your adaptation. I hope that Ben Davies will be integrated into the side soon.
1.) 30 Jul 2022 13:57:16
Think Souttar will struggle to hold a place in the team, for me way too slow to play our system.
2.) 30 Jul 2022 13:58:29
My thought is tuesday we cannot play him if he plays like that and could it be that pitch.
3.) 30 Jul 2022 13:59:20
Said already and got obliterated for it I'd havw played Katic in front of soutar atm if that was Latic today he'd have been hung. Sands looks first choice and hope Davies gets up to speed asap.
4.) 30 Jul 2022 14:01:48
He is a right sided centre half…I think Davies will start alongside Goldson when all are fit and available.
5.) 30 Jul 2022 14:02:40
Anybody who has read my posts will know I've never been a fan of Soutter, I will not change my mind. I got slated for my opinion on him and I'll probably get slated again. Soutter is not good enough to wear a Rangers shirt.
6.) 30 Jul 2022 14:03:53
A competitive game is the best to learn. Souttar will be good. Mclaughin is and never will be good enough.
7.) 30 Jul 2022 14:12:49
Not the keepers fault at all but barasic could have done better and souttar could have as well but that big boy upfront bullied our back line 1st half.
23 Nov 2021 14:46:35
Hi everyone, I am a new user, but a long time reader of posts and I enjoy reading so much that I decided to join and share in the chat.
My first post would be to contribute to the chat around the captaincy. I firmly believe that Tavernier lacks the inspirational qualities to lead a team when they may be struggling and I don't see him as a great link up between fans, media, players and the manager. I just think he lacks that spark. that's not to say I don't think he single handedly won us many points, that's a different discussion.
I think a new captain should be: inspiring, hard headed and thick skinned, but also someone who is younger AND not anyone who might be looking to move on in the future, I feel the captain should be a loyal and totally committed role. I do think Ryan Jack has these qualities, BUT there has to be a caveat around his injuries. Its very difficult to be an inspirational leader if you aren't even on the battlefield.
As far as whether or not GVB will change the captaincy, well, I think its easy when all you have is a hammer to view everything as a nail. Real life is a lot more nuanced than saying who is or isn't more deserving and we have no idea on the interpersonal dynamics within the team, how they would react to that. Also, as it stands, it seems that everyone would agree that the team is very low on confidence and morale. GVB coming in the door like a whirlwind and tearing up all that is familiar is most likely a very ill advised strategy in terms of team dynamics and player psychology. Gradual moving of the needle in the right direction is probably a better option than drastic changes. The time for that is only when the panic button needs to be hit and with the team still atop of the league, its definitely not panic stations.
Thanks for reading y'all and I hope you have a great day.
1.) 23 Nov 2021 15:09:12
Welcome to the site RDBoer, ðŸ‘
Very good first post.
A lot of great points you've mentioned and hopefully Gio can come in and make some subtle changes without reading the riot act and get the best out of this squad.
They have not become bad players overnight.
Our season starts again today.
Follow Follow
🔴⚪🔵.
2.) 23 Nov 2021 15:58:12
Welcome and brilliant post. Agree on Jack - would be a great captain and (I think) would help set and enforce really hard standards. i'm just not sure we will ever get a full season out of him.
3.) 23 Nov 2021 16:07:36
Good stuff mate
I especially admire your patience in writing such a long user name.
4.) 23 Nov 2021 16:30:49
Why would we make Ryan Jack the captain when he has missed as many games for us as he has played? What good is a captain on the sidelines? Jack would need to prove he's over his injury woes before this can even be considered. (If it ever was to be)
5.) 23 Nov 2021 16:45:30
Welcome to the site and ill just call you Ron if that's ok.
6.) 23 Nov 2021 16:59:42
Tt12 😄🤣
I thought same so just called him RDBoer
🔴⚪🔵.
7.) 23 Nov 2021 18:57:09
BMGH01, right, which is why I put a caveat in there that Jack has to be injury free in order to be considered for this role in the team. I just don't see Tavernier as being in the mold of the many great captains that have led the team on the field and think that if this should change that, injury free, Jack is a great option.
I'm sorry my user name was so long, I was going to make it GVB loyal to low key wind up the user known as Coops but that name was already taken!
8.) 23 Nov 2021 20:26:22
RDB mate the last thing we need on here is another wind up merchant who is never wrong (even tho mostly never right) .
Anyway, welcome and cheers mate.
9.) 23 Nov 2021 21:05:34
Good post RDB. Appointing Tav captain was an error of Judgement by the previous manager. Agree that no quick change will be made now and GVB will focus on all players taking responsibility, not just the formal captain.
Ronald_DeBoer_was_quite_good's rumour replies
21 Aug 2023 16:17:55
I’m not a supporter of players refusing to train or holding the club to their demands in anyway, but by the same token, it’s bizarre that in one post on thee forum, someone is saying our players aren’t treated well and then the next, someone is advocating a player be pinned against the wall and told what to do. This isn’t the dark ages, it’s 2023 and their thought is as archaic as the action. If players (like any employee of any company) don’t show to work and work isn’t of a reasonable standard, you look at how employment law helps you cancel the employment. You don’t physically threaten them.
09 Sep 2022 08:54:56
One thing I do enjoy about this site, is the ability to see the varying opinions on the same thing. Makes one realise that reality is a subjective interpretation.
Here is mine: I agree with the posters who say GVB wasn’t backed enough in the transfer window and that Ross Wilson is picking the players to be bought. You only have to look at bringing in Aaron Ramsay but not using him (even when he was able for selection) to see that’s not GVB’s pick of player. I don’t think GVB was wrong to make his claim that you need more money to be successful in the CL. However, I don’t think that he should be stating it publicly because it allows players to have a head drop and say…well we can’t compete and could be mentally damaging. Troops went go into battle and went over the top, it was a no win scenario for them in that situation, but they didn’t shirk the task. So I feel that he hasn’t been able to get into the psyche of the players because, massively talented or not, the team failed to get in about both Celtic and Ajax. The running stats and our own eyes tell us that. I personally think that the team need some sports psychology or GVB does, to understand his players mentality and get them fired up. I don’t think its enough to say they should be fired up to succeed for the Famous, because we can’t expect a player from a foreign country to understand that or feel it the same way when they first arrive. But there is clearly a big mentality issue. I’m not sure when it started, but i might correlate it with Morelos being put on the naughty step, perhaps the players were unhappy with that being aired publicly and felt it was the wrong way to approach things? Just a thought.
Either way, there have been studies on motivating athletes (i coach professional athletes- mainly UFC) and its all about trust, once trust is breached, its over and there are 3 elements to trust: ability, integrity and benevolence. If the players feel that GVB (or his team) don’t have the ability to help them reach their sporting goals, don’t have integrity between what they say and do or don’t genuinely care about the players and team over and above the fact they are paid to do so, then the game is up. To me, if i lost 0-4 in back to back games, I would be starting to question ability.
Sorry for the diatribe there!
Ronald_DeBoer_was_quite_good's banter replies
24 Apr 2024 16:54:31
I’m fairly certain that ‘deliberately navigating’ a drop down into a different competition would be considered match fixing. No professional sportsperson, who by character, are hardwired to aim to win, would deliberately want to lose as a small fish in a big pond to win as a bigger fish in a smaller pond. I find this notion preposterous.
29 Feb 2024 16:10:40
My Star, I think we should definitely consider that because the probability would be that AI would be correct more often than a human operator. Although I also think that there would be another human level above the AI, which would be deployed in the event of a unique scenario which had not been included in the machine learning data set.
27 Feb 2024 08:45:37
Paul86 thanks for that info, I’ll need to try his coffee out, I love a new coffee recommendation. I also just moved here full time from overseas and I’m going to ibrox for the first time on the weekend for Motherwell, so I am very excited about this! Hopefully we can keep the ball rolling on the march to the title. Have a great day everyone.
26 Feb 2024 19:45:39
I saw Soutter in a coffee shop on grey western road on a Saturday at 9am the day of a game a couple of weeks ago, in which he was playing. I thought it was weird, but the caffeine must have done the trick since he had a great game!
10 Feb 2024 07:48:34
I’m curious that you note referees, managers and owners as being in the category of ‘self interest’ but TV companies as ‘need to make money’ which I would say is the ultimate in self interest. I also don’t think TV companies need to turn football into the most exciting sport in the world. It’s already the most exciting sport in the world as evidence by it being the world’s most popular sport. Asking who should take the decisions to make things different is the wrong question. The question is: do things need to be different?