Rangers Finances

10 Dec 2024 08:49:30
Sorry couldn't get my head around the Lammers fee car sales thread. Put simply Did we get 2.5m from twente and pay off previous club so not shown on accounts or did we just get small part of the 800k and make a massive loss?

10 Dec 2024 09:43:41
we don't know that is the point. The analogy makes sense in my head as I write it.

as John says you have to write of what we still have to pay for the player to his old club so I doubt given we listed £800k then I doubt we just got that for all those players.

10 Dec 2024 10:15:41
I know Angus I'm just rubbish with finances. Just found it confusing because they said that was final fee. We obviously had to pay outstanding so either we got 2.5m from Twente to pay it off or we only got part of the 800k from them and we used other funds to pay for it. So question I'm really asking is how much did Twente pay for him, either 2.5m or around 200k?

10 Dec 2024 18:26:26
Hi Kaiser
We just don't know what we got to be honest. I don believe that we got a gross return of £800k on 5 players (Cantwell, Goldson, Lammers, McCrorie and Wright) which would be an average of £160k each. I have tried to check the clubs who bought sites and they all say undisclosed. There were lots of reports of £300k for Wright, £1.4 M plus add ons for Goldson, £400k for Mccrorie and £2M for Lammers. I suspect like a few have said we will have had fees still to pay for at least Lammers and Cantwell who only joined a year before and/ or will have had to pay off part or all of contracts for those players who didn't want to leave.
The notes in this years accounts will possibly be explained when it becomes part of the balance sheet next year but I wouldn't hold my breath on that. sorry but best I can do.

10 Dec 2024 23:27:12
Cheers Angus. I'm happy to try and believe what we got covered the outstanding fees due rather than just a huge loss with writing them off. Probably never really know. Those the kind of fees expected but when club says they confirm just the 800k for all it leads to confusion.

08 Dec 2024 15:55:24
Pc just said smelly bhoys out of our league financially?
A Rangers manager shouldn't say that.

08 Dec 2024 17:02:57
And a grown man shouldn't be using childish terms like "smelly bhoys"!

He isn't wrong, but it just stinks of him getting his excuses in before next weekend.

08 Dec 2024 17:41:05
He's just telling the truth.

09 Dec 2024 19:38:04
We can't in one hand demand the truth then on the other be offended when we get it.

09 Dec 2024 20:38:06
my thoughts exactly Rangers56.

07 Dec 2024 21:50:01
I believe what Johnston was hinting was a potential in the future for Rangers to purchase teams ie. Dumbarton, Linfield and similar small clubs in Europe.

07 Dec 2024 22:39:11
Ahhha some actually understands it, however I’m not sure where the money comes from initially.

07 Dec 2024 23:14:18
John that is rather tricky,

It can be done in simple terms by aquiring large minorities orsimple majority in clubs for example I am a minority shareholder of SK Brann so I could simply purchase a majority share of Rangers and incorporate that to my portfolio therefore creating a football group.

The difficult way would be directly purchasing clubs in the way City and Red Bull create there portfolio.

08 Dec 2024 09:56:26
Asathor RB bought a 5th tier club to form Leipzig so could we for instance buy a Lowland league club and work our way up the tiers so have a team called for instance East Kilbride Rangers. if there is one owner then is the process simpler as you have less people to convince to sell and buy from?

08 Dec 2024 15:02:56
Angus the simple answer is no.
No one can own more than 1 club in 1 country.

08 Dec 2024 16:01:33
Asathor thanks for that and I can't believe I was so stupid to forget that. duh.

06 Dec 2024 13:59:11
I thought Lammers was told for £2.5m? How have we only brought in 800k in player sales?

06 Dec 2024 16:56:41
Watp, because we still owed his previous club which we bought him from, that obviously reduce what our net income is.

07 Dec 2024 17:41:56
Thanks John, your info is brilliant.

06 Dec 2024 10:36:43
Any idea how we only took 810,000 in from sales in summer, I thought we got a decent bit for Lammers?

06 Dec 2024 11:51:56
Downright ineptitude from the board, once again. We really are a basket case when it comes to wheeling and dealing.

06 Dec 2024 14:16:45
have you never sold a car where you wanted say £5k but the person is only willing to pay £4.5k. You are selling because you want to buy a new car (player) and put the payments towards the finance for the new car. so do you carry on making the car payments (players wages) on the car (player) you don't want or sell the car at a lower price (transfer fee) . you can then buy a newer car with lower payments (wages) which you can sell at a better price next time you come to sell. the principles are the same here I think. yes worse off short term but in the longer term hopefully we will benefit.

06 Dec 2024 16:23:20
Angus you do t give the car away for nothing though because then you don’t have anything to put down on the new car/ player.

06 Dec 2024 16:57:34
Cullin zikos u need still pay club we bought him from the money they r due.

06 Dec 2024 17:30:42
John, this goes back much longer than a season or two. We have been a basket case, financially. Are we capable of making any profit on our players? Not convinced, unfortunately.

Celtic have done it properly for some time now and get paid over the odds for the players they manage to sell.

06 Dec 2024 17:31:04
so to add to my analogy given John's explanation. you have finance left to pay on the old car before you buy the new one.

06 Dec 2024 17:32:04
and zikos if no-one wants to buy your car you either have to keep it or give it away for very little. It was a buyers market for all our sales over the summer. hopefully that won't happen again.

06 Dec 2024 17:35:50
Fair point John, so if we look at the previous years accounts then we won’t see us paying a transfer fee for Lammers? I seriously doubt it.

06 Dec 2024 18:30:42
zikos this is as best as I can explain it and it is to do with amortisation and book value. not saying I have it 100% right but have looked about aboutt to try to understand. The figures may not be right but were easier for me to use and calculate 😁. So for Lammers we bought him for £5M on a 4 year deal. We write that down in amortisation over the 4 year length of his contract at £1.25M per year. we sold him after 1 year so his book value (balance) was £3.75M on our books. We then sold him for £2.5M we technically made a loss of £1.25M on that book value. so if this is correct then the £800k included that loss. I read a site who explains dit but not sure I got it 100%. in reality it is a bookkeeping exercise. John may and probably is correct in that we didn't pay the £5M up front so had to take the balance of that fee off the fee we got and that impacted on the £800k. point is the £800k isn't as straight forward as that is the fee we got for everyone.

06 Dec 2024 19:27:00
🤣🤣🤣🤣 I love a bit of mathematical gymnastics in order to sweep, sweep, our board's incompetence under the rug.
Seriously, if this was the tims, these said "finance gurus", would be having a field day rinsing them.

06 Dec 2024 19:51:51
Angus, totally understand that, the sums are not difficult to understand.

What is difficult to understand is this club thought this player was good enough 12months previous to splash out £5M on him. He has a pretty decent season and then we make a loss on him. that's the mismanagement I’m talking about.

This isn’t a one off. It’s time and time again! I appreciate that you have natural wastage on players, but we have let an entire squad leave for nothing. A team which probably cost us over £30M.

The guys leading our club might be good Rangers men who pumped in millions. But let’s be frank they loaned money with interest and at some point want it paid back. They have demonstrated over the last 5years that they are totally unfit to run this club.

I appreciate your loyalty, but it’s blind loyalty. Do we need to go back into admin before folk finally wake up and see how mismanaged we’ve been?

07 Dec 2024 09:36:27
sunshine it isn't mathematical gymnastics it is how the accounting process works. I don't think we only got a gross figure of £800k for all those players as at leats 3 were quoted prices by their new clubs which came to more than that. so there is a reason why the net figure was that. trying to rationalise that without your constant need to resort to insult rather than indulge in even semi-intelligent debate.
zikos I agree but 6 months ago nobody rated him at all and would have 'driven him the airport' themselves to get rid of him. Now we make a loss on him and everybody is up in arms.
why is it when I or others have a different opinion you resort to insults about how we can't see the obvious, e. g blind loyalty and happy clappers. I am well aware of what is happening but don't see any club having a 100% track record. Yes we can't keep losing those sums on every player without making a profit on some. BTW the same people saying that are the ones who think that an investor would allow us to keep following that road. you can't have it both ways.

07 Dec 2024 10:42:04
Cuillin refers to Lammers.

07 Dec 2024 10:43:00
Zikos r u serious we had paid one third of fee so still owed two thirds, honestly not difficult.

07 Dec 2024 11:14:01
Angus I didn’t try to insult anyone, that wasn’t my intention.

But what I would say, using your car analogy. If you took your car car to a garage and the wrecked it. Would you take it back to the same guys to fix it?

07 Dec 2024 12:48:14
no zikos I wouldn't but if they were the only garage willing to fix it? what you said didn't upset me but I think people including me so easily let those phrases trip off the tongue. I never think anyone on here wants the worst for our club but neither do the board the payers or the managers; welll apart from the poster with multiple nom de plumes.
I think the issue is that everyone thinks we just got £800 k when that isn't the case. Fees are paid in instalments, he was with us for 1 year so as John says the instalments which were left would need to be taken from the fee when they post the entry in the books. I have sadly been trying to explain this in several ways when I shouldn't bother really.

07 Dec 2024 14:31:45
You can use as many analogies as you wish, but you're flogging a dead horse, Angus. You might fool some of those still blind to any of our board's shortcomings (and there are many), but the vast majority of us fans have our eyes wide open.

07 Dec 2024 15:02:46
Sunshine I am not trying to fool anyone just trying to explain the reality. There are enough on here though who think that we only got £800k gross for all those players, which is wrong.

I can see the board's shortcomings but without them there we would not exist any more. I think more likely is that you can't see their strengths but as you are never wrong then that will not be something you can admit to.

Another as well who uses the phrase vast majority without being able to substantiate that. what I read from that is that the person believes it but thinks (? ) that it adds weight to their opinion. Unless you have a poll which shows the vast majority of fans opinion then you use the phrase incorrectly.

07 Dec 2024 16:21:19
And can you substantiate that the vast majority haven't finally woken up to our mess of a board?! Nope! Thought that!

If you really want to guage fan anger, read the banners, go for a drink in the Rangers bars, read other forums, and listen to what other fans are saying round about you in the stadium. Even on here fan disharmony is clear, and so has the polls which have been posted.

You keep posting your wee analogies, but at the end of the day, you're our board's favourite kind of supporter, who'll champion them whatever the circumstances.

07 Dec 2024 17:27:38
I haven't said that the vast majority of fans have or haven't done anything. I do those things and yes there is discontent but that doesn't amount to you, or anyone saying the vast majority. I don't support the board I support the team. You don't ever seem to have a good word to say about the team ever. I know you will answer that by saying there is nothing to be happy about but given what we are trying to do small victories deserve to be recognised. so wins against Kilmarnock, Nice, Malmo, FCSB are worth celebrating but you don't even seem to be able to do that.
I read you say you were about to spend a night with your family I hope you enjoy that and like me get a break until tomorrow at noon at least.

07 Dec 2024 17:50:03
And there was me thinking I had waxed lyrical about them on the live chat when they deserve it - You should venture onto it one day! You'll find me on there during away games, and EL ones, just the home games I'm not usually on for as I'm sat in the stadium witnessing mediocrity (Killie game aside) .

07 Dec 2024 18:43:33
I am not sure live chat between us is the right thing 😁. it is bad enough when I have the time to edit what I write. It would be the same for me though. I do try to concentrate on the good aspects of the game however few there are.

08 Dec 2024 10:34:24
This threads like an advice line for Arnold Clark and Bank of Scotland🤔.

06 Dec 2024 06:07:26
Can anybody shed light on the £810k we ‘made’ from the summer sales. Is this because we paid the players off to leave? Or because we still had to pay off the players current clubs and the £810k is over and beyond this? Or because we didn’t actually sell these players (I. e. we freed them)?

Complete incompetence from the board, with the number of board members who left in a rush I really hope nothing more sinister was at play.

06 Dec 2024 07:33:44
I noted with interest something John posted yesterday regarding administration. Was he being sarcastic? Or was there substance to his post? Were we in that much danger that we had to get money fast in order to pay the bills, and this is why we sold them for such a paltry amount, and get all the money upfront?

I remember white selling Jelavic on the cheap in order to get all the money upfront. Of course, that wasn't to pay the bills, that was to line his own pockets.

Whatever the reason, it stinks! It's just more proof of how badly we are run behind the scenes.

06 Dec 2024 07:52:35
I had hoped when came out in accounts it was just initial instalments we'd received but being the total for them is an absolute disgrace. All very nice congratulating themselves on saving wages but means little if still paying decent transfer fees but not bringing anything in. Every year they speak of failed player trading model but nothing has changed so far so we'll see if we can believe it this time.

06 Dec 2024 08:02:28
Sunshine if that was the purpose then we aren't going to cover costs for long with just £810k. I suspect it was to save money in the £6million plus wages which these players were costing us. Take Cantrell he wasnt going to play for us again so to pay his wages even until even January for no return seemed silly. we weren't in a good bargaining position with clubs or players some of whom didn't want to leave so we may have made some payment of their contract. It may be that the payment fees were in stages as John suggested yesterday which is the norm. you don't put the whole amount in the accounts of the year you sell as you get taxed on that but put the fee in as you get it. just guesses really.

07 Dec 2024 10:47:13
Sunshine I was 100% not being sarcastic, without bennet Gibson park we would have went under again,

07 Dec 2024 12:49:21
John but they are pony in it for the blazer and the freebies surely, oh and the huge interest repayments they get for lending the money. BTW I am being sarcastic 😁.

07 Dec 2024 15:03:38
sorry only in it, nothing to do with horses.

07 Dec 2024 22:45:20
Angus. Least u try to debate, I remember the guy on here in the summer who was an accountant stating Bennett lent rangers 10 million pounds and by his expert opinion would get 10 million back plus 9 million in interest over seven years, still wetting myself at that.

05 Dec 2024 23:33:09
So, EH, turns a small profit of 500k. Woop! So, on that basis, in 2 years time it will have made enough money to buy back Lammers, Goldson, Wright, McCrorie and Cantwell and still have a wee bit of change left. Happy days! 😁

EH is nothing, and will be nothing more, than a white elephant vanity project. Minimum £12m in costs, turning profits of 500k, so just another 23 years to go until we've made our money back. Aye, a pure cash cow, eh?! And remember, the fat controller (Park Snr) gets 11% of that revenue and profit, so I don't fancy my chances of still being alive and kicking when it finally pays for itself. If it's still there?

06 Dec 2024 04:46:30
Maybe its £500k profit after the annual repayments? Would doubt we paid £12M cash?

06 Dec 2024 08:07:25
and it is £500k we can reinvest in the team whereas we probably couldn't use the £12 Million due to FFP. the licence to come will add to those profits hopefully. it is the first year as well so the upfront costs would possibly affect that profit. But it is all doom and gloom in planet sunshine as always 😁👏.